| ITV Debate 21:02 - Jun 4 with 17373 views | Zx1988 |
Not holding out much hope of Sunak wanting to debate properly. Assuming it'll be 60mins of him whining 'but Corbyn', no? |  |
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| ITV Debate on 15:42 - Jun 5 with 1663 views | Pencilpete |
| ITV Debate on 14:58 - Jun 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You've fallen for the Tory rhetoric.
Starmer's right, getting round the table and debating IS the answer. The Tories just get around a table and don't budge. The only alternatives to getting round the table are doing nothing and accepting the 35%. What do you want him to say?
And stopping the gangs IS a legitimate way to stop the boats.
"What about the ones that already here?" - they've already used the boats, so that's a different question to "how would you stop the boats?" |
i don't think i've fallen for anything in fairness. as someone who is politically neutral i generally make my mind up each time on who i think will do the better job - i've said twice i think the Tories are useless and as such (like probably most of the public) i'm looking at Starmer and going "OK show me something..... anything" ... and he doesn't.
I watched the debate for over an hour last night and we still don't really know what he plans to do and how he plans to do it.
I agree the immigration issue is a 2 part question but he was pressed twice on what he would do with the immigrants who were already here and he couldn't answer it, thats not what the public want to hear.
We already know what the Conservatives can't do, but i want Starmer to win my vote with some decent policies and ideas not just get it because i don't want Sunak anymore.
The footballing equivalent is signing Leon Best cos you don't want to see Nathan Ellington play anymore !!!!!!!!! | | | |
| ITV Debate on 15:59 - Jun 5 with 1601 views | Pinewoodblue |
Think it is more important to be told how we are going to get out of the current situation. Starmer isn't exactly giving any info away is he? |  |
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| ITV Debate on 16:40 - Jun 5 with 1542 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ITV Debate on 15:24 - Jun 5 by Vegtablue |
I agree FWIW. Coldness towards both isn't really equivalent to impartiality. Feeling bereft of a natural political home at the moment isn't akin to being apolitical. This doesn't dilute the validity of GB's contributions or my interest in reading them, but it's difficult for anyone to free themselves of all political biases and pre-formed opinions, even moreso when someone is as politically engaged as he is. I don't think he's being disingenuous though (say by claiming neutrality in an attempt to be more persuasive). |
I suppose 'no emotional investment in either of them' would be better wording. I have utter contempt towards this incarnation of the Conservative party, whilst at the same time voting for Labour more as a protest vote than any belief in what they stand for. Although I seem to have moved leftwards over the past few years.
Then again, my starting point was slightly to the right of Attila the Hun. |  |
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| ITV Debate on 16:41 - Jun 5 with 1551 views | brazil1982 |
| ITV Debate on 12:28 - Jun 5 by StokieBlue |
Sunak is looking pretty dubious today with the publishing of the letter from the Treasury saying they had no part in calculating the 38m figure and that ministers shouldn't promote the number as calculated by them and contained data from partisan advisors.
I see the Tories are sticking to it though and the number is being repeated at every chance I assume to get it into the minds of people regardless of accuracy.
SB |
The letter does not state "we [Treasury] had no part in calculating the 38m figure",
rather "the figure used....includes costs beyond those provided by the Civil Service" |  | | |
| ITV Debate on 16:47 - Jun 5 with 1518 views | Radlett_blue |
| ITV Debate on 15:11 - Jun 5 by noggin |
Are you Brits still using pints? 🙄 |
Yes , some of us still drink pints of warm ale as well. |  |
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| ITV Debate on 17:11 - Jun 5 with 1482 views | positivity |
| ITV Debate on 12:28 - Jun 5 by StokieBlue |
Sunak is looking pretty dubious today with the publishing of the letter from the Treasury saying they had no part in calculating the 38m figure and that ministers shouldn't promote the number as calculated by them and contained data from partisan advisors.
I see the Tories are sticking to it though and the number is being repeated at every chance I assume to get it into the minds of people regardless of accuracy.
SB |
i guess the tories are hoping it'll be their version of the 350m-to-the-nhs bus lie, but hopefully the public won't fall for that again... | |
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| ITV Debate on 17:36 - Jun 5 with 1425 views | Swansea_Blue |
Brexit’s very much the elephant in the room. It’s disappointing that neither party acknowledges the possibility that Brexit has hurt GDP and tax revenues. Total tax revenues have actually increased since we left the EU, but some attempts to estimate how Brexit has affected things suggest the total tax take would have been even higher had we not left. Labour and the Tories are not prepared to acknowledge that closer ties with Europe could improve our economy. Not even prepared to look at the evidence and discuss it. Until they do, they’re being dishonest with all of us. |  |
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| ITV Debate on 17:44 - Jun 5 with 1393 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ITV Debate on 17:36 - Jun 5 by Swansea_Blue |
Brexit’s very much the elephant in the room. It’s disappointing that neither party acknowledges the possibility that Brexit has hurt GDP and tax revenues. Total tax revenues have actually increased since we left the EU, but some attempts to estimate how Brexit has affected things suggest the total tax take would have been even higher had we not left. Labour and the Tories are not prepared to acknowledge that closer ties with Europe could improve our economy. Not even prepared to look at the evidence and discuss it. Until they do, they’re being dishonest with all of us. |
Neither are proposing to rejoin the EU so why talk about what happened seven years ago? | |
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| ITV Debate on 17:44 - Jun 5 with 1390 views | Swansea_Blue |
| ITV Debate on 17:11 - Jun 5 by positivity |
i guess the tories are hoping it'll be their version of the 350m-to-the-nhs bus lie, but hopefully the public won't fall for that again... |
‘Oh yes we will’ | |
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| ITV Debate on 18:32 - Jun 5 with 1320 views | peterleeblue |
| ITV Debate on 17:44 - Jun 5 by GlasgowBlue |
Neither are proposing to rejoin the EU so why talk about what happened seven years ago? |
Both parties frightened to discuss it through fear of alienating the Brexit supporting element of their supporter base.
My hope is that if Labour get it then Europe may well at least accept it wasn't them and then allow some sensible trade deals (good for both parties) and allow us to repair the animosity caused by the split from the EU. This given time may assist the growth agenda that both parties are trying to peddle. |  | | |
| ITV Debate on 18:48 - Jun 5 with 1293 views | Herbivore |
Never overestimate the British public. |  |
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| ITV Debate on 19:04 - Jun 5 with 1263 views | factual_blue |
| ITV Debate on 16:41 - Jun 5 by brazil1982 |
The letter does not state "we [Treasury] had no part in calculating the 38m figure",
rather "the figure used....includes costs beyond those provided by the Civil Service" |
What does this section of the letter mean then?
'As you will expect, civil servants were not involved in the production of presentation of the Conservative Party's document 'Labour's Tax Rises' or in the calculation of the total figure used.'
Seems pretty clear to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1122q14dxo |  |
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| ITV Debate on 19:06 - Jun 5 with 1255 views | NthQldITFC |
| ITV Debate on 15:23 - Jun 5 by Pinewoodblue |
Yes and milk still appears on the door step in glass bottles, if you are willing to pay a little more. Mind you not every morning, been just 3 days a week for sometime. |
Sorry about that, I do get thirsty when I'm doing my paper round. |  |
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| ITV Debate on 19:16 - Jun 5 with 1235 views | Zx1988 |
| ITV Debate on 19:04 - Jun 5 by factual_blue |
What does this section of the letter mean then?
'As you will expect, civil servants were not involved in the production of presentation of the Conservative Party's document 'Labour's Tax Rises' or in the calculation of the total figure used.'
Seems pretty clear to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1122q14dxo |
The ex-Treasury chap on WatO explained it quite well.
The Treasury is currently obliged under legislation to produce these forecasts, with the Government having the ability to tell them to make certain assumptions in their calculations.
So, for instance, Labour's plans may add up, but the Tories may have ordered the Treasury to assume, perhaps, that a certain plank of Labour's fundraising plans may not work/exist, which would serve to create the £2k per family shortfall that they're now crowing about.
Simply put, whilst the Treasury may have produced the costings, they are based on figures and assumptions that the Tories have told them to use. | |
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| ITV Debate on 22:18 - Jun 5 with 1115 views | reusersfreekicks |
| ITV Debate on 17:44 - Jun 5 by GlasgowBlue |
Neither are proposing to rejoin the EU so why talk about what happened seven years ago? |
Cos it has been a disaster brought about by lies and bs |  | | |
| ITV Debate on 22:36 - Jun 5 with 1078 views | SitfcB |
Refreshing to have a politics thread and it not descend into arguing and abuse!
Well done everyone.
Good discussion and informative, keep it up until the election at least and it can help people decide who to vote for.
But remember, don’t vote Tory  |  |
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| ITV Debate on 23:34 - Jun 5 with 1012 views | itfcsuth |
| ITV Debate on 22:36 - Jun 5 by SitfcB |
Refreshing to have a politics thread and it not descend into arguing and abuse!
Well done everyone.
Good discussion and informative, keep it up until the election at least and it can help people decide who to vote for.
But remember, don’t vote Tory |
Or labour. |  | | |
| ITV Debate on 23:58 - Jun 5 with 988 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ITV Debate on 14:58 - Jun 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You've fallen for the Tory rhetoric.
Starmer's right, getting round the table and debating IS the answer. The Tories just get around a table and don't budge. The only alternatives to getting round the table are doing nothing and accepting the 35%. What do you want him to say?
And stopping the gangs IS a legitimate way to stop the boats.
"What about the ones that already here?" - they've already used the boats, so that's a different question to "how would you stop the boats?" |
Indeed. They will negotiate less than 35%. But it needs good faith negotiations that recognise the absolute mullering all public sector people have had over the last ten years in terms of real terms wages.
His answer about Rwanda, was actually processing the claims, which are backed up beyond anything remotely reasonable now. | | | |
| ITV Debate on 00:21 - Jun 6 with 973 views | itfcsuth |
| ITV Debate on 22:36 - Jun 5 by SitfcB |
Refreshing to have a politics thread and it not descend into arguing and abuse!
Well done everyone.
Good discussion and informative, keep it up until the election at least and it can help people decide who to vote for.
But remember, don’t vote Tory |
I don’t follow politics for obvious reasons regarding UK politicians etc, but maybe somebody could help answer.
Is there a genuine possibility Nigel Fragae could be leader of the opposition post election? | | | |
| ITV Debate on 21:55 - Jun 6 with 821 views | Radlett_blue |
| ITV Debate on 00:21 - Jun 6 by itfcsuth |
I don’t follow politics for obvious reasons regarding UK politicians etc, but maybe somebody could help answer.
Is there a genuine possibility Nigel Fragae could be leader of the opposition post election? |
If the Tories get routed, as they probably will, there will be huge pressure from the 200,000 or so party members to find a leader who is "more Conservative" i.e. more right wing. so it isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that Nige could appear as the new messiah. | |
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