| Away tickets next season 11:01 - Jun 18 with 24444 views | MidlandBlue25 |
Seen some people suggest it should be a ballot system for away tickets next season. What’s everyone’s thoughts?
I think that’s a bit unfair on the fans who have made the long trips to unfavourable destinations over the years. |  | | |  |
| Away tickets next season on 11:20 - Jun 19 with 3449 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Away tickets next season on 08:49 - Jun 19 by textbackup |
The fck do you want me to say?
I had kids when I did, I miss away games, missed some home games. It was at a time when we were a bit sht.
But I made sacrifices, had untold arguements with the wife over going. But it is what it is.
The club can’t help every single issue. |
I'm not asking the club to help every single issue. I'm asking for some tickets to be in a ballot so it isn't a closed shop just for people who went regularly in the last 2 seasons. Don't think it's that controversial of an ask. I don't know why some seem to think those people are the only loyal Town supporters. [Post edited 19 Jun 2024 11:21]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Away tickets next season on 11:27 - Jun 19 with 3403 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Away tickets next season on 11:16 - Jun 19 by thebeat |
It's entirely fair. What would be unfair would be fans who have who have travelled week in week out for years not being able to get a ticket because Jonny cum latelys want to pick and choose a few big games they want to go for a day out. |
Think you're missing the point. No-one wants the tickets going to Jonny cum latelys who want to pick and choose a few big games for a day out. We want "fans who have who have travelled week in week out for years", but who maybe don't have the points for whatever reason since that system came in, to have a chance. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Away tickets next season on 11:39 - Jun 19 with 3378 views | thebeat |
| Away tickets next season on 16:31 - Jun 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Have you actually read the thread? From what I see the majority are long-standing supporters who, for various reasons, haven't been able to get to as many away games in the last couple of seasons in order to build up their points.
No-one's said they should get "the same priority" either.
You seem to have missed all the facts and are just parroting what you want to be true. Are you a Tory/Reform voter?! |
There seems to be an awful lot of supporters suddenly who "couldn't go over the last few seasons for various reasons" though doesn't there. Sorry but i smell something and it ain't flowers. | | | |
| Away tickets next season on 11:58 - Jun 19 with 3334 views | J2BLUE |
| Away tickets next season on 11:39 - Jun 19 by thebeat |
There seems to be an awful lot of supporters suddenly who "couldn't go over the last few seasons for various reasons" though doesn't there. Sorry but i smell something and it ain't flowers. |
With 3000 minimum allocations you could set 2500 aside which would likely more than cover anyone who has been to 10+ games.
You probably need to come to terms with the ballot idea as this ownership group maximises income and they want to sell as many memberships as possible. The only way they could guarantee a fair shot at getting tickets is some kind of ballot system so they will likely go that route to justify the membership cost. [Post edited 19 Jun 2024 12:03]
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| Away tickets next season on 12:04 - Jun 19 with 3307 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Away tickets next season on 11:39 - Jun 19 by thebeat |
There seems to be an awful lot of supporters suddenly who "couldn't go over the last few seasons for various reasons" though doesn't there. Sorry but i smell something and it ain't flowers. |
Every season there's probably lots of people who can't go (for a variety of reasons) who may well have been loyal as hell before that. We're only talking about the last 2 because that's when this points system came in.
You can think I'm bullsh!tting all you like, but I've been going away for decades, just not so much in the last few seasons (still had a season ticket for all of those years). Whether I have points or not, I still don't want to see a closed shop. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Away tickets next season on 12:09 - Jun 19 with 3296 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Away tickets next season on 11:39 - Jun 19 by thebeat |
There seems to be an awful lot of supporters suddenly who "couldn't go over the last few seasons for various reasons" though doesn't there. Sorry but i smell something and it ain't flowers. |
We all make life style choices. I no longer have a season ticket as, due to other events also being important, it was no longer financially viable. From a quick check wouldn’t be able to go to 6, or 7, home games next season.
Now getting tickets becomes problematic.
The only problem I have with the current priority system is the way some abuse it, buying tickets for games they have no intention of going to then selling them on.
For diehard fans who know they will attend every away game the old system of an away day season ticket would work for me, they charged your card each time a ticket was sent. You could back out on a limited number of games.
Going forward the club needs to search for the middle ground. Satisfy both the diehard fans and at the same time make tickets available, in pairs, by ballot. There are fans who attend the majority of games on their own, or with friends, but want to take a youngster to just a few games a season. They need to be catered for, perhaps points should also be awarded for tickets secured via ballot.
Club also need to be very strict on those who sell tickets on. |  |
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| Away tickets next season on 12:16 - Jun 19 with 3265 views | hatch |
| Away tickets next season on 11:39 - Jun 19 by thebeat |
There seems to be an awful lot of supporters suddenly who "couldn't go over the last few seasons for various reasons" though doesn't there. Sorry but i smell something and it ain't flowers. |
My wife became pregnant at the start of last season so I couldn't justify travelling around the country every Saturday and most midweeks. Have had to focus on her and now my newborn. Prior to that I have gone to 15+ away games every season since 2002.
Just to give you an example of why circumstances change and now it is frustrating that I'll never be able to access away tickets again for all the time we're in the Prem unless anything changes. But maybe I should have prioritised club over family, I'm sure many others did and are being rewarded for it now. |  | | |
| Away tickets next season on 12:27 - Jun 19 with 3241 views | portmanking |
| Away tickets next season on 12:16 - Jun 19 by hatch |
My wife became pregnant at the start of last season so I couldn't justify travelling around the country every Saturday and most midweeks. Have had to focus on her and now my newborn. Prior to that I have gone to 15+ away games every season since 2002.
Just to give you an example of why circumstances change and now it is frustrating that I'll never be able to access away tickets again for all the time we're in the Prem unless anything changes. But maybe I should have prioritised club over family, I'm sure many others did and are being rewarded for it now. |
But apparently if we didn't leave our wives and newborns last season or bleed blue enough we're not worthy of being taken into consideration any longer! | | | |
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| Away tickets next season on 12:31 - Jun 19 with 3225 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Away tickets next season on 12:16 - Jun 19 by hatch |
My wife became pregnant at the start of last season so I couldn't justify travelling around the country every Saturday and most midweeks. Have had to focus on her and now my newborn. Prior to that I have gone to 15+ away games every season since 2002.
Just to give you an example of why circumstances change and now it is frustrating that I'll never be able to access away tickets again for all the time we're in the Prem unless anything changes. But maybe I should have prioritised club over family, I'm sure many others did and are being rewarded for it now. |
You're the sort of person who should still be rewarded, as you're clearly not one of these "Johnny cum latelys" some are talking about. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Away tickets next season on 12:48 - Jun 19 with 3170 views | sjg |
| Away tickets next season on 12:04 - Jun 19 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Every season there's probably lots of people who can't go (for a variety of reasons) who may well have been loyal as hell before that. We're only talking about the last 2 because that's when this points system came in.
You can think I'm bullsh!tting all you like, but I've been going away for decades, just not so much in the last few seasons (still had a season ticket for all of those years). Whether I have points or not, I still don't want to see a closed shop. |
You've stated that you live in London, which makes travelling to games significantly easier for you than probably 90% of people (unless there is an extenuating circumstance which I'm not aware of - I apologise for being insensitive if so), yet you still have next to no points?
Nobody lives within walking distance of every away game - everyone that has a significant amount of points has made serious sacrifices to get them. I find it difficult to believe your circumstances have changed with the club's success - you are, effectively, now complaining on the basis that you want to go to specific games without doing the same hard yards as everyone else and want to skip the queue? | | | |
| Away tickets next season on 12:52 - Jun 19 with 3148 views | stonojnr |
| Away tickets next season on 11:36 - Jun 18 by portmanking |
What about those who 'did the hard yards' for decades but for one reason or another couldn't get to as many games in the last 12-18 months when the points system was introduced? Myself, I've now got 2 young boys and away games became much tougher in the last year or two. But for the 20 years prior to that, did at least 16-17 away games, year in, year out.
As others have said, holding 10-15% for a separate ballot each away game seems fair to me. [Post edited 18 Jun 2024 11:38]
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and thats just life, the older you get, the more youll realise your life and your support for the club is not defined by which away games, or home games you go to. | | | |
| Away tickets next season on 12:55 - Jun 19 with 3121 views | witchdoctor |
| Away tickets next season on 11:39 - Jun 19 by thebeat |
There seems to be an awful lot of supporters suddenly who "couldn't go over the last few seasons for various reasons" though doesn't there. Sorry but i smell something and it ain't flowers. |
there wasn’t this much uproar this time last season despite the same points system being in place….maybe a trip to the likes of New York Stadium doesn’t hold the same appeal as going to the ..say ..Emirates….having said that I do hope a proportion of tickets are set aside for a ballot type system like …presumably what will happen with home games…but you just know that no matter what the club decides there willl always be a section of fans who won’t be happy whatever… |  | | |
| Away tickets next season on 13:00 - Jun 19 with 3083 views | Danny_G |
| Away tickets next season on 09:02 - Jun 19 by portmanking |
I wonder if your attitude would be different if you'd had kids etc. in the last 18 months...
A 10%-15% ballot would give long-time fans at least a shot at getting to the odd away game, while ensuring everyone with 10 pts or more is guaranteed a ticket. I haven't seen anyone saying last season's fans should be forgotten. Far from it. But many are saying the long-time fans shouldn't be forgotten either, especially as those may get out of the habit of going in the coming years when the cycle of success ends and the club needs the long-term hardcore again. |
I’m in exactly that position. Used to go to every away game (literally - I had an Ultimate Membership), have two young children and have had to cut back as a result.
And you know what my attitude is? That was my choice. No one forced me to have children so, if others get above me in the priority queue, so be it. I still have a reasonable number of points because I’ve literally prioritised Ipswich above all other social activities for the last few years. I’m not saying anyone else should or shouldn’t do that - what people choose to do with their lives is up to them - but the opportunities to go were there last season, with numerous matches getting to low points levels or even general sale. You could get to ten points just by buying membership for a couple of years.
I’ll never get up to the level of attendance I used to be at, but what’s the alternative? Give me long-term loyalty points that just reward me for being old? Completely unworkable and unfair on young people who had no chance to go until recently. | | | |
| Away tickets next season on 13:01 - Jun 19 with 3072 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Away tickets next season on 12:48 - Jun 19 by sjg |
You've stated that you live in London, which makes travelling to games significantly easier for you than probably 90% of people (unless there is an extenuating circumstance which I'm not aware of - I apologise for being insensitive if so), yet you still have next to no points?
Nobody lives within walking distance of every away game - everyone that has a significant amount of points has made serious sacrifices to get them. I find it difficult to believe your circumstances have changed with the club's success - you are, effectively, now complaining on the basis that you want to go to specific games without doing the same hard yards as everyone else and want to skip the queue? |
How does living in London make it easier for me to get to northern games (the most likely ones I'd have been able to get tickets for)?
I don't really care what you believe, and I'm not going to go into details, but my circumstances have changed it's as simple as that. My point is lots of us have "done the hard yards" - for decades. But because we didn't happen to do those hard yards in the last 2 seasons we should miss out altogether? Some of those bleating about the system shouldn't change because they're alright, I've probably been travelling away before they were born. And yet they're now considered more loyal than me just through recency?
I'm not trying to "skip the queue" either. There's enough allocation in the Prem that most who have a decent amount of points will get their tickets anyway. I'm just advocating a ballot amount where the shop isn't completely closed so that the only ones able to get tickets are the only ones who were able to get tickets previously. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Away tickets next season on 13:03 - Jun 19 with 3057 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Away tickets next season on 12:55 - Jun 19 by witchdoctor |
there wasn’t this much uproar this time last season despite the same points system being in place….maybe a trip to the likes of New York Stadium doesn’t hold the same appeal as going to the ..say ..Emirates….having said that I do hope a proportion of tickets are set aside for a ballot type system like …presumably what will happen with home games…but you just know that no matter what the club decides there willl always be a section of fans who won’t be happy whatever… |
I was complaining about this last season as well! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Away tickets next season on 13:03 - Jun 19 with 3055 views | sjg |
| Away tickets next season on 13:01 - Jun 19 by The_Flashing_Smile |
How does living in London make it easier for me to get to northern games (the most likely ones I'd have been able to get tickets for)?
I don't really care what you believe, and I'm not going to go into details, but my circumstances have changed it's as simple as that. My point is lots of us have "done the hard yards" - for decades. But because we didn't happen to do those hard yards in the last 2 seasons we should miss out altogether? Some of those bleating about the system shouldn't change because they're alright, I've probably been travelling away before they were born. And yet they're now considered more loyal than me just through recency?
I'm not trying to "skip the queue" either. There's enough allocation in the Prem that most who have a decent amount of points will get their tickets anyway. I'm just advocating a ballot amount where the shop isn't completely closed so that the only ones able to get tickets are the only ones who were able to get tickets previously. |
Because it's easier to get a train up north from London than it is from Ipswich.
Loyal: 'giving or showing firm and constant support or allegiance to a person or institution'
Key word constant
And by asking for a ballot to get a ticket before someone with more points than you, you are trying to skip the queue. Simple | | | |
| Away tickets next season on 13:14 - Jun 19 with 3008 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Away tickets next season on 13:03 - Jun 19 by sjg |
Because it's easier to get a train up north from London than it is from Ipswich.
Loyal: 'giving or showing firm and constant support or allegiance to a person or institution'
Key word constant
And by asking for a ballot to get a ticket before someone with more points than you, you are trying to skip the queue. Simple |
Well firstly, not everyone travels to games by train. Secondly, I'm in south London so I still have to travel through London to get to those trains, which isn't massively quicker than getting the train down from Ipswich to Liverpool st.
Your last comment shows me you've just disregarded all the points made by myself and others. What this really is about is selfish supporters who have got the points and don't want it opening up further, no matter how many decades anyone else has been supporting this club.
Forgetting long-time supporters like myself, what about youngsters who are getting to an age where they can now go to away games (or be allowed to go to away games on their own)? Do you think they also shouldn't be allowed a chance of ticket?
I don't think anywhere in the loyalty definition you looked up does it say "specifically in the very small window of the last 2 years, nothing before or after". | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Away tickets next season on 13:17 - Jun 19 with 2978 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Away tickets next season on 13:00 - Jun 19 by Danny_G |
I’m in exactly that position. Used to go to every away game (literally - I had an Ultimate Membership), have two young children and have had to cut back as a result.
And you know what my attitude is? That was my choice. No one forced me to have children so, if others get above me in the priority queue, so be it. I still have a reasonable number of points because I’ve literally prioritised Ipswich above all other social activities for the last few years. I’m not saying anyone else should or shouldn’t do that - what people choose to do with their lives is up to them - but the opportunities to go were there last season, with numerous matches getting to low points levels or even general sale. You could get to ten points just by buying membership for a couple of years.
I’ll never get up to the level of attendance I used to be at, but what’s the alternative? Give me long-term loyalty points that just reward me for being old? Completely unworkable and unfair on young people who had no chance to go until recently. |
The alternative is a small ballot so it's not a completely closed shop. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Away tickets next season on 13:19 - Jun 19 with 2957 views | Danny_G |
| Away tickets next season on 13:17 - Jun 19 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The alternative is a small ballot so it's not a completely closed shop. |
Then how does that favour the long-term loyal (which seems to be your priority) over someone who’s never been to a match in his life? | | | |
| Away tickets next season on 13:24 - Jun 19 with 2916 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Away tickets next season on 13:19 - Jun 19 by Danny_G |
Then how does that favour the long-term loyal (which seems to be your priority) over someone who’s never been to a match in his life? |
It doesn't, but unless someone wants to look at my old away programmes I'm not sure what you can do about that. And I'm not sure how many "never been to a match in their life" supporters there are anyway. Seriously, is it that much of a problem? I'd imagine 99% of supporters applying for Ipswich away tickets have been to matches before. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Just go and support your local team…. on 13:27 - Jun 19 with 2904 views | Bloots |
| Away tickets next season on 13:14 - Jun 19 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Well firstly, not everyone travels to games by train. Secondly, I'm in south London so I still have to travel through London to get to those trains, which isn't massively quicker than getting the train down from Ipswich to Liverpool st.
Your last comment shows me you've just disregarded all the points made by myself and others. What this really is about is selfish supporters who have got the points and don't want it opening up further, no matter how many decades anyone else has been supporting this club.
Forgetting long-time supporters like myself, what about youngsters who are getting to an age where they can now go to away games (or be allowed to go to away games on their own)? Do you think they also shouldn't be allowed a chance of ticket?
I don't think anywhere in the loyalty definition you looked up does it say "specifically in the very small window of the last 2 years, nothing before or after". |
….it would make your life so much less stressful.
Never seen so much whining.
Edit: Just remembered you’ve got me on ignore, but the point still stands. [Post edited 19 Jun 2024 13:28]
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| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| Away tickets next season on 13:38 - Jun 19 with 2834 views | Stenvict |
| Away tickets next season on 06:38 - Jun 19 by USA |
So you’ve only not missed a game since we started to improve!? What about those who put in the hard yards that you mentioned? |
I've missed about 25 games in the last 15 years, not including the Covid season. I was just referring to since the points system came into play. I've definitely done the hard yards, but I love it, and wouldn't change a thing. | |
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| Away tickets next season on 17:48 - Jun 19 with 2658 views | Vegtablue |
| Away tickets next season on 12:16 - Jun 19 by hatch |
My wife became pregnant at the start of last season so I couldn't justify travelling around the country every Saturday and most midweeks. Have had to focus on her and now my newborn. Prior to that I have gone to 15+ away games every season since 2002.
Just to give you an example of why circumstances change and now it is frustrating that I'll never be able to access away tickets again for all the time we're in the Prem unless anything changes. But maybe I should have prioritised club over family, I'm sure many others did and are being rewarded for it now. |
Relatable truth for many? I've averaged 5 away games per season since maybe 10 years old, save for a period when I lived outside the country. I used to be very jealous of friends who were taken to more than this and in adulthood I've continued to be jealous of the hardcore, even moreso over the past couple of seasons.
The reason I don't average more than I do is guilt, in a nutshell. My personal circumstances mean that going to the football is a self-indulgent exercise, financially and time-wise. Maybe I went wrong in finding a partner who doesn't share my passion. And probably I'm an outlier in the amount of immediate family I have who live alone, without social networks to really speak of. The end result anyway is I feel selfish for fitting in as much football as I do now, and I wouldn't be targeting most of the blockbuster away games next season even if I had full access to tickets.
My personal experience knowing hardcore fans is they do it because of what following Town gives to them: the enormous social component, belonging, football endorphins and so on. They love going and hate not being able to. The biggest sacrifice tends to arrive when something prevents them from getting to a game, rather than the other way around. I don't doubt there exists a group for whom going is genuinely a sacrifice, i.e. they turn up out of loyalty alone, even though they really wanted to be somewhere else. I haven't honestly met someone in this group, though. Those I know who went to even the bleakest games in the bleakest times would still have found it emotionally difficult to have been denied entry.
I don't mean to judge anybody, to be clear. Whether someone believes they are putting the club above themselves in always going, loved ones in front of themselves in not always going, or themselves first in always or sometimes going, we're all entitled to our own life outlook. I believe there's a reasonable debate to be had around who 'deserves' to attend next season and how much, though, even if the club isn't so interested. It isn't obvious to me that the person who went to every game last season now deserves to go to every game next season, and the person who goes to a smaller number of away games every season now deserves to go to none. It wouldn't be unfair, it may be argued, if bumper demand affected all pre-existing groups proportionally (those who went to 100% are reduced to 90%, 30% reduced to 20%, etc. or equiv.).
Lastly, we have an obvious issue with membership abuse. I don't criticise many of those doing it. It's nice to be able to help your friends and even moreso if it benefits you personally too. The end result is people artificially inflating their own numbers, which keeps them ahead and prevents others from catching up, building their own scores, or accessing tickets they should have been able to. Textbackup has made several posts on this thread and is undeniably a very regular attendee. He also bought for Norwich when he couldn't attend himself; he'll be aiding Sitters or another for Man City away in August. I don't mean to single him out, I just remember reading the posts. How many of those in the high categories won't be trying to protect their position in this way? It's normal behaviour and most know Town fans who would be delighted to receive an occasional or semi-regular leg-up. So no hate towards the player, but maybe we need to tweak the game accordingly (random ID checks, punishment if discovered..). Alternatively, a decent chunk for the ballot system at least prevents an artificially closed shop. | | | |
| Away tickets next season on 19:25 - Jun 19 with 2521 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
| Away tickets next season on 17:48 - Jun 19 by Vegtablue |
Relatable truth for many? I've averaged 5 away games per season since maybe 10 years old, save for a period when I lived outside the country. I used to be very jealous of friends who were taken to more than this and in adulthood I've continued to be jealous of the hardcore, even moreso over the past couple of seasons.
The reason I don't average more than I do is guilt, in a nutshell. My personal circumstances mean that going to the football is a self-indulgent exercise, financially and time-wise. Maybe I went wrong in finding a partner who doesn't share my passion. And probably I'm an outlier in the amount of immediate family I have who live alone, without social networks to really speak of. The end result anyway is I feel selfish for fitting in as much football as I do now, and I wouldn't be targeting most of the blockbuster away games next season even if I had full access to tickets.
My personal experience knowing hardcore fans is they do it because of what following Town gives to them: the enormous social component, belonging, football endorphins and so on. They love going and hate not being able to. The biggest sacrifice tends to arrive when something prevents them from getting to a game, rather than the other way around. I don't doubt there exists a group for whom going is genuinely a sacrifice, i.e. they turn up out of loyalty alone, even though they really wanted to be somewhere else. I haven't honestly met someone in this group, though. Those I know who went to even the bleakest games in the bleakest times would still have found it emotionally difficult to have been denied entry.
I don't mean to judge anybody, to be clear. Whether someone believes they are putting the club above themselves in always going, loved ones in front of themselves in not always going, or themselves first in always or sometimes going, we're all entitled to our own life outlook. I believe there's a reasonable debate to be had around who 'deserves' to attend next season and how much, though, even if the club isn't so interested. It isn't obvious to me that the person who went to every game last season now deserves to go to every game next season, and the person who goes to a smaller number of away games every season now deserves to go to none. It wouldn't be unfair, it may be argued, if bumper demand affected all pre-existing groups proportionally (those who went to 100% are reduced to 90%, 30% reduced to 20%, etc. or equiv.).
Lastly, we have an obvious issue with membership abuse. I don't criticise many of those doing it. It's nice to be able to help your friends and even moreso if it benefits you personally too. The end result is people artificially inflating their own numbers, which keeps them ahead and prevents others from catching up, building their own scores, or accessing tickets they should have been able to. Textbackup has made several posts on this thread and is undeniably a very regular attendee. He also bought for Norwich when he couldn't attend himself; he'll be aiding Sitters or another for Man City away in August. I don't mean to single him out, I just remember reading the posts. How many of those in the high categories won't be trying to protect their position in this way? It's normal behaviour and most know Town fans who would be delighted to receive an occasional or semi-regular leg-up. So no hate towards the player, but maybe we need to tweak the game accordingly (random ID checks, punishment if discovered..). Alternatively, a decent chunk for the ballot system at least prevents an artificially closed shop. |
Great post and good overall thread.
So many sides to the debate, and the different things that are valued or play out: loyalty, recency bias, 'cheating the system', 'putting in the hard yards', costs, family, education, being part of a pack, fairness and its multiple definitions, etc etc.
I hope we make room first to value those who went most often to games in the last few years... and also leave space too for those who couldn't and still can't go often but would love to go sometimes; and for those who never have been and would love to start doing so. | | | |
| Just go and support your local team…. on 20:03 - Jun 19 with 2484 views | Herbivore |
| Just go and support your local team…. on 13:27 - Jun 19 by Bloots |
….it would make your life so much less stressful.
Never seen so much whining.
Edit: Just remembered you’ve got me on ignore, but the point still stands. [Post edited 19 Jun 2024 13:28]
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Needlessly having a pop at someone you know won't see your post and can't respond? How's being kind working out for you? |  |
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