| Academy cat 2 16:59 - Sep 26 with 5626 views | FrimleyBlue |
Makes you realise how poor our recruitment has had to be in this area for many years now.
Of course there will always be talent locally but to be restricted to only local talent really hurts your chances of having a strong academy set up.
I'm really surprised that Ashton was so dead against cat 1 a couple of seasons ago. It wasn't as much of a no because we were league 1 but he didn't appear to see the benefits of having cat. Thankfully that's looking to be changed now and he's fully behind the need for it. |  |
| |  |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:08 - Sep 26 with 5560 views | DarkBrandon |
I guess it is significantly more difficult running a Cat one academy in League One compared to the Premier league. And even if you could it need not necessarily be the best use of resources. |  | | |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:10 - Sep 26 with 5550 views | J2BLUE |
I don't think he didn't see the benefits of it as much as he knew the plan and it wasn't a priority at the time. We had owners with money to spend so in the short term we would be signing ready made solutions. Now as part of the long term plan we're investing in what can help us achieve long term success. I don't think he's suddenly 180'd on this. |  |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:11 - Sep 26 with 5555 views | TheMoralMajority |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:08 - Sep 26 by DarkBrandon |
I guess it is significantly more difficult running a Cat one academy in League One compared to the Premier league. And even if you could it need not necessarily be the best use of resources. |
I don't think it was due to our lowly position. Ashton pretty much ruled it out entirely, saying it was unnecessary and cat 2 was fine, in the first fans forum.
It was, imho, the one misstep in an otherwise positive forum, so I am also glad to see us reverse course.
Related: Is Klug still at the club? |  |
| ...but do signatures really work? |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:30 - Sep 26 with 5468 views | No_Moore_Kieffer |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:11 - Sep 26 by TheMoralMajority |
I don't think it was due to our lowly position. Ashton pretty much ruled it out entirely, saying it was unnecessary and cat 2 was fine, in the first fans forum.
It was, imho, the one misstep in an otherwise positive forum, so I am also glad to see us reverse course.
Related: Is Klug still at the club? |
Yeah, BK is still about, not sure on his official job title, but still involved at the academy |  | | |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:46 - Sep 26 with 5419 views | SheffordBlue |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:11 - Sep 26 by TheMoralMajority |
I don't think it was due to our lowly position. Ashton pretty much ruled it out entirely, saying it was unnecessary and cat 2 was fine, in the first fans forum.
It was, imho, the one misstep in an otherwise positive forum, so I am also glad to see us reverse course.
Related: Is Klug still at the club? |
If I remember correctly part of his reasoning was that there was thought to be an upcoming change in the system and that we could have spent a lot of time and effort trying to get to Cat 1 only for the metaphorical goalposts to move.
I don't think I've seen anything to suggest that that situation has changed - it might be the case that those 'in the business' know that the current system will now stay in place or that any changes will be minimal. |  |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 18:00 - Sep 26 with 5384 views | pointofblue |
It's sad to see what's become of the academy. We have two players contracted to the club who have started league games having come through the academy. One's warming a seat in the stands to be only used in an emergency and one has been loaned to a League One side. A long way from what we were, but that's partly down to how much football has changed. | |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 19:39 - Sep 26 with 5151 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
What is the definition of local? We did OK in the past with Wright, Scowie, Bramble, Dyer, Westlake etc.
I think the biggest issue is Cat 1 clubs poaching our players. We lost the following players to big clubs over the past few years, who would arguably have had a pathway to our first team;
Knight - Man City
Flores - Arsenal
Clarke - Arsenal
Chirewa - Wolves
C Brown - Chelsea
Gibbs - Norwich (Slightly different circumstances)
This suggests that we can develop talent, but the system doesn't allow us to keep hold of them. [Post edited 26 Sep 2024 19:41]
|  |
| |
| Fans Forum 2021.... on 19:53 - Sep 26 with 5061 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:11 - Sep 26 by TheMoralMajority |
I don't think it was due to our lowly position. Ashton pretty much ruled it out entirely, saying it was unnecessary and cat 2 was fine, in the first fans forum.
It was, imho, the one misstep in an otherwise positive forum, so I am also glad to see us reverse course.
Related: Is Klug still at the club? |
I suspect KM has massively influenced the pursuit of Cat 1. Fans Forum 2022:
Kieran: "I started as a young player at a big club and the majority of my development as a coach came within academies - so it's something that is close to my heart.
"Developing young players is something I enjoy doing. It's important because the connection between a homegrown player and the fans can't be replicated. When we have a player with the potential to reach the first-team, we will provide a pathway for them the best we can.
"It has to marry with the Club's goals - and that's to get out of League One as quickly as possible - so it's a balancing act.
"Cameron Humphreys has played two competitive games this season. He a really important player - potentially - to the future of this football club. But he's only 18 and there are not many 18-year-olds playing in League One. We'll develop him carefully." [Post edited 26 Sep 2024 19:57]
| |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Academy cat 2 on 20:30 - Sep 26 with 4909 views | itfcjoe |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:11 - Sep 26 by TheMoralMajority |
I don't think it was due to our lowly position. Ashton pretty much ruled it out entirely, saying it was unnecessary and cat 2 was fine, in the first fans forum.
It was, imho, the one misstep in an otherwise positive forum, so I am also glad to see us reverse course.
Related: Is Klug still at the club? |
I asked that question, and at the game a few days later I sat behind Keiron Dyer and Adem Atay who turned round to speak to me about it (I didn't know them) and both said they couldn't believe how quickly Ashton had shut that down |  |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 20:36 - Sep 26 with 4890 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Academy cat 2 on 20:30 - Sep 26 by itfcjoe |
I asked that question, and at the game a few days later I sat behind Keiron Dyer and Adem Atay who turned round to speak to me about it (I didn't know them) and both said they couldn't believe how quickly Ashton had shut that down |
Thanks I did think I was correct in that he was against it and it wasn't based on finances or the league we were in. | |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 20:48 - Sep 26 with 4822 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Academy cat 2 on 20:36 - Sep 26 by FrimleyBlue |
Thanks I did think I was correct in that he was against it and it wasn't based on finances or the league we were in. |
Just let it slide sometimes. | |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 06:42 - Sep 27 with 4488 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Academy was of no benefit to chancers looking to ‘add value’. By openly consigning at least five years of home-grown players to the scrap heap before their careers had begun was too much for people of integrity like Kieron Dyer.
Now the academy is a useful tool to cheat FFP the cowboys are playing catch up. And of course when you’re swimming in money it becomes more affordable. | |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 07:46 - Sep 27 with 4381 views | MattinLondon |
| Academy cat 2 on 06:42 - Sep 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
Academy was of no benefit to chancers looking to ‘add value’. By openly consigning at least five years of home-grown players to the scrap heap before their careers had begun was too much for people of integrity like Kieron Dyer.
Now the academy is a useful tool to cheat FFP the cowboys are playing catch up. And of course when you’re swimming in money it becomes more affordable. |
If cowboys are the driving force behind promotion then give me a lasso, throw me a hat and call me Billy. |  | | |
| Academy cat 2 on 07:52 - Sep 27 with 4362 views | Churchman |
| Academy cat 2 on 06:42 - Sep 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
Academy was of no benefit to chancers looking to ‘add value’. By openly consigning at least five years of home-grown players to the scrap heap before their careers had begun was too much for people of integrity like Kieron Dyer.
Now the academy is a useful tool to cheat FFP the cowboys are playing catch up. And of course when you’re swimming in money it becomes more affordable. |
Zzzz |  | | |
| Academy cat 2 on 08:05 - Sep 27 with 4332 views | Churchman |
Yoof, academy, community - like everything else was left to rot. Add in rules that allow the important clubs to pinch prospects off smaller ones for nothing and you had to ask whether or not the Brentford model of the time wasn’t a better one. In other words, don’t waste your money on yoof.
However, I thought Ashton was wrong to say Cat 2 was sufficient at the time and still do. To me it’s a vital part of the future of the club and if done right it’ll more than pay for itself. Evidence? None, because I don’t know the maths. It just feels right for this club to do that, especially given our history and location. | | | |
| Academy cat 2 on 08:16 - Sep 27 with 4303 views | HighgateBlue |
| Academy cat 2 on 17:10 - Sep 26 by J2BLUE |
I don't think he didn't see the benefits of it as much as he knew the plan and it wasn't a priority at the time. We had owners with money to spend so in the short term we would be signing ready made solutions. Now as part of the long term plan we're investing in what can help us achieve long term success. I don't think he's suddenly 180'd on this. |
Maybe not a complete 180, but it's a change of tune alright. This is what he said in July 2021:
“It intrigues me why people think cat one is a wonderful thing,”
“It’s a possibility. It doesn’t particularly excite me."
“Cat one is something where, other than the games programme, there is very little difference" |  | | |
| Academy cat 2 on 08:34 - Sep 27 with 4242 views | itfcjoe |
| Academy cat 2 on 08:16 - Sep 27 by HighgateBlue |
Maybe not a complete 180, but it's a change of tune alright. This is what he said in July 2021:
“It intrigues me why people think cat one is a wonderful thing,”
“It’s a possibility. It doesn’t particularly excite me."
“Cat one is something where, other than the games programme, there is very little difference" |
When he said "other than the games programme", it's like saying "other than the money" when talking about the Premier League - the games programmes is the most important thing. | |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 08:43 - Sep 27 with 4206 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Academy cat 2 on 08:05 - Sep 27 by Churchman |
Yoof, academy, community - like everything else was left to rot. Add in rules that allow the important clubs to pinch prospects off smaller ones for nothing and you had to ask whether or not the Brentford model of the time wasn’t a better one. In other words, don’t waste your money on yoof.
However, I thought Ashton was wrong to say Cat 2 was sufficient at the time and still do. To me it’s a vital part of the future of the club and if done right it’ll more than pay for itself. Evidence? None, because I don’t know the maths. It just feels right for this club to do that, especially given our history and location. |
Also, just intrigued but what is classed as having a successful youth academy, the interview piece says it again that we are kinda proud of what we've done, so I take it we don't just mean those who have played first team for town and that does include the players poached by other prem sides? | |
| |
| Academy cat 2 on 15:38 - Sep 27 with 3903 views | Sharkey |
I must say, I don't feel much the wiser after Halajko's interview, and I wish he'd have given more detail, especially what age-groups he's talking about and the size of the 'catchment areas'. Presumably information about the rules is online somewhere, but I haven't found it with a quick look.
Put simply, do the rules mean that Spurs can sign an eight-year-old growing up in Ipswich, but Town can't sign up a kid of that age from, say, Haringey until Arsenal and Tottenham have said they're not interested? Is it kids this age and even younger that he's talking about?
Flynn Downes went to Brentwood School, so the club did well to get him at a very young age ahead of Spurs and West Ham (whom he supports), but had they already rejected him?
Colchester must be disappointed that Humphreys and Baggott - who both went to school in Colchester, I believe - both chose Town at a young age. But the real 'wonder-kid' from Colchester is Jamie Donley (aged 19), who signed for Spurs when he was 8. He made his debut in the PL last season, and has now been sent to Orient on loan. [Post edited 27 Sep 2024 15:52]
|  | | |
| Academy cat 2 on 15:45 - Sep 27 with 3886 views | TresBonne |
Agree. For the most part, our academy is pretty poor, not much comes out of it and the select few who have have never become truly special in the last 10-15 years. |  | | |
| Academy cat 2 on 15:45 - Sep 28 with 3571 views | 90sBlue27 |
| Academy cat 2 on 15:38 - Sep 27 by Sharkey |
I must say, I don't feel much the wiser after Halajko's interview, and I wish he'd have given more detail, especially what age-groups he's talking about and the size of the 'catchment areas'. Presumably information about the rules is online somewhere, but I haven't found it with a quick look.
Put simply, do the rules mean that Spurs can sign an eight-year-old growing up in Ipswich, but Town can't sign up a kid of that age from, say, Haringey until Arsenal and Tottenham have said they're not interested? Is it kids this age and even younger that he's talking about?
Flynn Downes went to Brentwood School, so the club did well to get him at a very young age ahead of Spurs and West Ham (whom he supports), but had they already rejected him?
Colchester must be disappointed that Humphreys and Baggott - who both went to school in Colchester, I believe - both chose Town at a young age. But the real 'wonder-kid' from Colchester is Jamie Donley (aged 19), who signed for Spurs when he was 8. He made his debut in the PL last season, and has now been sent to Orient on loan. [Post edited 27 Sep 2024 15:52]
|
U6 - U11 distance rules sit at 1 hour 15 mins.
This would be the same for us whether cat 1/2/3 | | | |
| Fans Forum 2021.... on 17:03 - Sep 28 with 3423 views | PhilTWTD |
| Fans Forum 2021.... on 19:53 - Sep 26 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I suspect KM has massively influenced the pursuit of Cat 1. Fans Forum 2022:
Kieran: "I started as a young player at a big club and the majority of my development as a coach came within academies - so it's something that is close to my heart.
"Developing young players is something I enjoy doing. It's important because the connection between a homegrown player and the fans can't be replicated. When we have a player with the potential to reach the first-team, we will provide a pathway for them the best we can.
"It has to marry with the Club's goals - and that's to get out of League One as quickly as possible - so it's a balancing act.
"Cameron Humphreys has played two competitive games this season. He a really important player - potentially - to the future of this football club. But he's only 18 and there are not many 18-year-olds playing in League One. We'll develop him carefully." [Post edited 26 Sep 2024 19:57]
|
I think the Americans were behind the volte-face on the academy. I think they see more value in it.
It's interestingly similar to Marcus Evans's thinking on the academy, initially coming in and having little interest before seeing more value in it after three or four years. Was an area of the club which was doing pretty well up to the takeover. Worth noting that a lot of the staff from then either moved to clubs which were then higher up or to more senior roles.
Was also interesting to heard Halajko's comments about the games programme which are pretty much identical to Bryan Klug's on the subject when he was in the role a decade ago. |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
