| Booing the knee from itfc fans? 18:10 - Oct 20 with 27597 views | Mullet |
Was this particularly widespread/loud? This clip seems to pick up one fella or so. Obviously, anyone doing it is an ignorant prick but I’d hope it’s totally isolated. |  |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 15:40 - Oct 21 with 2569 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 14:29 - Oct 21 by Mullet |
You’ve made a hell of a lot up there to cover yourself. Lots of assumptions and projection.
I didn’t bring up anything you hadn’t chosen to engage with. Don’t walk down the path then blame me because you’ve fallen flat on your face.
As for bullying, you’re the one wading in calling things out and getting the hump when made to look stupid. There was no whatabouts or political redirection from me was there? That makes your last line and attempt to be the reasonable everyman even funnier and desperate.
You’re not even consistent with your own schtick in this thread, let alone dodging uncomfortable truths and firing back with a volume of slurry. No wonder you’re so quick to defend National Front Nige et al. |
"You’ve made a hell of a lot up there to cover yourself. Lots of assumptions and projection."
Sometimes I wonder if you are actually replying to yourself.
I don't mind looking stupid in your eyes. I'll worry about the judgment of people I hold in high regard.
"That makes your last line and attempt to be the reasonable everyman even funnier and desperate."
Can you hear yourself? You sound like a conspiracy theorist looking for your hate figure, the funny thing is you are just as radical as the people you hate on the other side. |  | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 15:44 - Oct 21 with 2554 views | Mullet |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 15:40 - Oct 21 by Europablue |
"You’ve made a hell of a lot up there to cover yourself. Lots of assumptions and projection."
Sometimes I wonder if you are actually replying to yourself.
I don't mind looking stupid in your eyes. I'll worry about the judgment of people I hold in high regard.
"That makes your last line and attempt to be the reasonable everyman even funnier and desperate."
Can you hear yourself? You sound like a conspiracy theorist looking for your hate figure, the funny thing is you are just as radical as the people you hate on the other side. |
Says the bloke who called me far left because I hate fascists like Farage and their interference in this country. You’ve been called out by others for not even being consistent, it just gets under your skin you’re not very good at trying to apologise for these sorts of beliefs.
Given it’s not just me laughing at your nonsense or desperation to hide that with the odd v, seems like you’re trying too hard again because you know your act doesn’t fool anyone anyone. There isn’t a both sides to this. Stop trying to pretend there is. | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 15:47 - Oct 21 with 2534 views | CrockerITFC |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 14:02 - Oct 21 by Ryorry |
All the RF would qualify to play for England.
Tuchel wouldn’t. That’s the point. |
So am I right in saying if England win a trophy under Tuchel, you aren't going to celebrate? |  | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 15:51 - Oct 21 with 2506 views | positivity |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 15:35 - Oct 21 by Europablue |
They are ignorant in their own way. They don't understand the cultural significance of kneeling.
It would have been an easy thing to adjust. Most people would have been supportive of a gesture that doesn't have such connotations.
The other ignorant thing is taking a movement directly from the US without thought to how the UK is different from the US.
I understand that they are not aware of how offensive kneeling is to some people. So people who kneel are not bad people, and people who don't kneel are not bad people.
A lot of people seem to write people off as bad when probably it is just fitting someone into a box of people you feel free to spew hatred to. I'm not going to support racists or pedos, or whatever, but you have to be very sure before you label someone with such names. |
you, as a non-black person living in a different country, have the temerity to say that people are ignorant for making a stand against racism?! you don't have the lived experience which has led them to make that choice, your stance is the dictionary definition of ignorant.
people who boo other people making a stand against racism (in the way that they have ccarefully chosen as their preferred action) are the same as people who threw bananas at black players in the '70s and '80s.
standing with them whilst calling footballers "ignorant" is showing your true colours [Post edited 21 Oct 2024 15:53]
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 16:08 - Oct 21 with 2467 views | withyblue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 13:12 - Oct 21 by Europablue |
They should have just changed the gesture. "Taking a knee" is offensive because it is American and kneeling is a sign of subservience.
I still have a problem with it, but I have to accept that ignorant people (mostly footballers) have accepted the gesture to represent anti-racism (which I support).
My stance is that I won't boo or clap it. |
What gesture would you prefer? A raised fist like John Carlos and Tommie Smith in 1968?
But you'd probably take issue with that too, because your real problem isn't actually with the gesture, is it? You'd just rather not acknowledge the existence of racial inequality at all. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 16:35 - Oct 21 with 2393 views | MK1 |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 20:52 - Oct 20 by BlibbiBlob1976 |
I’ve rarely been there before the start. [Post edited 21 Oct 2024 5:14]
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Strange. You're rarely there before the start, yet have a major problem with something you haven't seen.
How do you think this is going? Winning? Losing? Or about half and half? |  |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:03 - Oct 21 with 2192 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 15:51 - Oct 21 by positivity |
you, as a non-black person living in a different country, have the temerity to say that people are ignorant for making a stand against racism?! you don't have the lived experience which has led them to make that choice, your stance is the dictionary definition of ignorant.
people who boo other people making a stand against racism (in the way that they have ccarefully chosen as their preferred action) are the same as people who threw bananas at black players in the '70s and '80s.
standing with them whilst calling footballers "ignorant" is showing your true colours [Post edited 21 Oct 2024 15:53]
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Could you please actually just read what I said rather than what you wish I said. Don't dare to tell me what my "true colours" are when you are projecting them on me.
I referred to ignorance of the significance of kneeling. I just said that the stand against racism should take a slightly different form. Isn't it better to be culturally sensitive to cultural norms? Then you bring along a lot of people who support the stand against racism.
You just can't equate people booing a culturally insensitive act to people throwing bananas. For sure a racist who doesn't like any stand against racism would be booing along with the person booing because of the cultural insensitivity of the symbolism of kneeling.
My personal stance is that people in general are too ignorant of cultural significance of certain gestures, but as the majority view shifts, then so do cultural norms. Now the die is set, it is quite futile to boo and I personally would be neutral. I will defend people who would boo, just to say that it isn't proof that they are racist. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:09 - Oct 21 with 2187 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 16:08 - Oct 21 by withyblue |
What gesture would you prefer? A raised fist like John Carlos and Tommie Smith in 1968?
But you'd probably take issue with that too, because your real problem isn't actually with the gesture, is it? You'd just rather not acknowledge the existence of racial inequality at all. |
I did consider that one, but it is associated with "black power" which is a black supremacist.
So I would propose a more neutral gesture.
FIFA has a no racism gesture, which is just crossing your arms to signal a cross as in no to racism, why not make that gesture, rather than stumbling across a politically or culturally charged gesture?
If that were the gesture, I'd certainly applaud that. | | | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:23 - Oct 21 with 2156 views | positivity |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:03 - Oct 21 by Europablue |
Could you please actually just read what I said rather than what you wish I said. Don't dare to tell me what my "true colours" are when you are projecting them on me.
I referred to ignorance of the significance of kneeling. I just said that the stand against racism should take a slightly different form. Isn't it better to be culturally sensitive to cultural norms? Then you bring along a lot of people who support the stand against racism.
You just can't equate people booing a culturally insensitive act to people throwing bananas. For sure a racist who doesn't like any stand against racism would be booing along with the person booing because of the cultural insensitivity of the symbolism of kneeling.
My personal stance is that people in general are too ignorant of cultural significance of certain gestures, but as the majority view shifts, then so do cultural norms. Now the die is set, it is quite futile to boo and I personally would be neutral. I will defend people who would boo, just to say that it isn't proof that they are racist. |
you've said enough.
you'd defend people who boo a stand against racism.
you'd call anybody who makes a stand against racism in a way that isn't personally endorsed by you "ignorant".
we see where you stand and who you stand with perfectly well, and none of your mealy-mouthed attempts to deflect disguise that. | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 00:02 - Oct 22 with 2090 views | eireblue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:09 - Oct 21 by Europablue |
I did consider that one, but it is associated with "black power" which is a black supremacist.
So I would propose a more neutral gesture.
FIFA has a no racism gesture, which is just crossing your arms to signal a cross as in no to racism, why not make that gesture, rather than stumbling across a politically or culturally charged gesture?
If that were the gesture, I'd certainly applaud that. |
I am always interested in these culturally charged gestures you make reference to quite frequently.
Anyhoo I checked with ChatGPT.
Kneeling in the UK carries various cultural significances, often linked to historical, religious, and social contexts.
1. Religious Practices: In Christianity, kneeling is a common posture during prayer and worship, symbolizing humility and reverence before God. This is especially evident in Anglican and Catholic traditions.
2. Historical Context: Kneeling has been part of British history, particularly in ceremonies such as the coronation of monarchs. The act of kneeling before a monarch has traditionally symbolized loyalty and submission.
3. Social Movements: In recent years, kneeling has taken on political significance, particularly in the context of the Black Lives Matter movement. Many people have adopted kneeling as a form of protest against racial injustice, drawing attention to issues of systemic racism.
4. Sports: Athletes, particularly in football (soccer), have used kneeling to protest against racism and to show solidarity with social justice movements. This has sparked discussions about freedom of expression in sports.
5. Cultural Rituals: Kneeling can also be part of various cultural rituals and ceremonies, such as weddings, where it symbolizes commitment and respect.
I think it is okay you know, I don’t think anyone in the stadium is worried that a religious service, a monarch, or a wedding is suddenly going to appear, and get confused about why people are choosing to take the knee.
Hopefully you can relax a little bit now. |  | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 01:06 - Oct 22 with 2057 views | Ryorry |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:03 - Oct 21 by Europablue |
Could you please actually just read what I said rather than what you wish I said. Don't dare to tell me what my "true colours" are when you are projecting them on me.
I referred to ignorance of the significance of kneeling. I just said that the stand against racism should take a slightly different form. Isn't it better to be culturally sensitive to cultural norms? Then you bring along a lot of people who support the stand against racism.
You just can't equate people booing a culturally insensitive act to people throwing bananas. For sure a racist who doesn't like any stand against racism would be booing along with the person booing because of the cultural insensitivity of the symbolism of kneeling.
My personal stance is that people in general are too ignorant of cultural significance of certain gestures, but as the majority view shifts, then so do cultural norms. Now the die is set, it is quite futile to boo and I personally would be neutral. I will defend people who would boo, just to say that it isn't proof that they are racist. |
"I just said that the stand against racism should take a slightly different form."
You have no black heritage, so that's simply not your call to make. Arrogant of you to think it is. [Post edited 22 Oct 2024 3:25]
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:06 - Oct 22 with 1988 views | noggin |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 01:06 - Oct 22 by Ryorry |
"I just said that the stand against racism should take a slightly different form."
You have no black heritage, so that's simply not your call to make. Arrogant of you to think it is. [Post edited 22 Oct 2024 3:25]
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"Arrogant of you to think it is."
Some might even say racist. |  |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:44 - Oct 22 with 1911 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 01:06 - Oct 22 by Ryorry |
"I just said that the stand against racism should take a slightly different form."
You have no black heritage, so that's simply not your call to make. Arrogant of you to think it is. [Post edited 22 Oct 2024 3:25]
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So many things in your response are wrong, and it is arrogant of you to say that only black people have a say.
First racism is not just about black people, secondly the game isn't for one race to dictate to another race what to do (that is what it sounds like you are saying).
Why on earth would you not want to be considerate of English culture and heritage concerning attitudes to kneeling?
Finally, this is just a forum where we are stating our opinions. "it's not your call to make" can be used towards anyone who is not involved at the high level of professional sport. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:51 - Oct 22 with 1878 views | positivity |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:44 - Oct 22 by Europablue |
So many things in your response are wrong, and it is arrogant of you to say that only black people have a say.
First racism is not just about black people, secondly the game isn't for one race to dictate to another race what to do (that is what it sounds like you are saying).
Why on earth would you not want to be considerate of English culture and heritage concerning attitudes to kneeling?
Finally, this is just a forum where we are stating our opinions. "it's not your call to make" can be used towards anyone who is not involved at the high level of professional sport. |
anyone interested in a sweepstake on when the next racist trope will appear from europablue?
i'm going with "all lives matter" 10:23 | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:59 - Oct 22 with 1843 views | positivity |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 00:02 - Oct 22 by eireblue |
I am always interested in these culturally charged gestures you make reference to quite frequently.
Anyhoo I checked with ChatGPT.
Kneeling in the UK carries various cultural significances, often linked to historical, religious, and social contexts.
1. Religious Practices: In Christianity, kneeling is a common posture during prayer and worship, symbolizing humility and reverence before God. This is especially evident in Anglican and Catholic traditions.
2. Historical Context: Kneeling has been part of British history, particularly in ceremonies such as the coronation of monarchs. The act of kneeling before a monarch has traditionally symbolized loyalty and submission.
3. Social Movements: In recent years, kneeling has taken on political significance, particularly in the context of the Black Lives Matter movement. Many people have adopted kneeling as a form of protest against racial injustice, drawing attention to issues of systemic racism.
4. Sports: Athletes, particularly in football (soccer), have used kneeling to protest against racism and to show solidarity with social justice movements. This has sparked discussions about freedom of expression in sports.
5. Cultural Rituals: Kneeling can also be part of various cultural rituals and ceremonies, such as weddings, where it symbolizes commitment and respect.
I think it is okay you know, I don’t think anyone in the stadium is worried that a religious service, a monarch, or a wedding is suddenly going to appear, and get confused about why people are choosing to take the knee.
Hopefully you can relax a little bit now. |
i don't think he lives in england, he probably doesn't understand our culture any more.
from his posts, i'm guessing he last lived here in the '50s, thankfully emigration exists! | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:59 - Oct 22 with 1837 views | noggin |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:51 - Oct 22 by positivity |
anyone interested in a sweepstake on when the next racist trope will appear from europablue?
i'm going with "all lives matter" 10:23 |
Don't worry, it's just his "opinions " 🙄 | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 09:03 - Oct 22 with 1811 views | noggin |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:59 - Oct 22 by positivity |
i don't think he lives in england, he probably doesn't understand our culture any more.
from his posts, i'm guessing he last lived here in the '50s, thankfully emigration exists! |
I think he still lives in the 50s | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 09:07 - Oct 22 with 1769 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:23 - Oct 21 by positivity |
you've said enough.
you'd defend people who boo a stand against racism.
you'd call anybody who makes a stand against racism in a way that isn't personally endorsed by you "ignorant".
we see where you stand and who you stand with perfectly well, and none of your mealy-mouthed attempts to deflect disguise that. |
I think you struggle to understand other people's perspectives. You seem to want to view people as mostly having bad intentions. Your reality may be very different from mine, so obviously you are entitled to your opinions, it would just be nice if you didn't try to insinuate that people you disagree with are racist!
Just actually listen to what I say. You said "you'd defend people who boo a stand against racism", that is not true, I'm saying that I defend people who boo a symbol of subservience that may in their view be linked to Marxism through the Black Lives Matter organization in the US (not the general movement that most people understand). If the reason they are booing is because they don't like seeing a stand against racism, then I am against the people booing and I think they are hateful.
You said "you'd call anybody who makes a stand against racism in a way that isn't personally endorsed by you "ignorant"", that is also not true. I am only calling people ignorant who are not aware of the cultural significance of kneeling and the origins of the Black Lives Matter organization as they are lacking specific knowledge or awareness. I am not calling those people ignorant in general.
In essence, there is misunderstanding from both perspectives. The people kneeling don't want to force us all to kneel before them and the vast majority of the people booing do not want to belittle a stand against racism. Don't stifle a respectful discourse and actively prevent people from understanding each other better.
If you can't accept my explanation that clearly has no racist intent, and you want to imagine that all people who don't agree with kneeling are racist. Then I don't know what to say to you. There is no point adding to this thread any further because I have expressed my opinion as clearly as possible and I suppose you are free to distort it and try and call me racist. In that case you would just be being ignorant. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 09:23 - Oct 22 with 1709 views | positivity |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 09:07 - Oct 22 by Europablue |
I think you struggle to understand other people's perspectives. You seem to want to view people as mostly having bad intentions. Your reality may be very different from mine, so obviously you are entitled to your opinions, it would just be nice if you didn't try to insinuate that people you disagree with are racist!
Just actually listen to what I say. You said "you'd defend people who boo a stand against racism", that is not true, I'm saying that I defend people who boo a symbol of subservience that may in their view be linked to Marxism through the Black Lives Matter organization in the US (not the general movement that most people understand). If the reason they are booing is because they don't like seeing a stand against racism, then I am against the people booing and I think they are hateful.
You said "you'd call anybody who makes a stand against racism in a way that isn't personally endorsed by you "ignorant"", that is also not true. I am only calling people ignorant who are not aware of the cultural significance of kneeling and the origins of the Black Lives Matter organization as they are lacking specific knowledge or awareness. I am not calling those people ignorant in general.
In essence, there is misunderstanding from both perspectives. The people kneeling don't want to force us all to kneel before them and the vast majority of the people booing do not want to belittle a stand against racism. Don't stifle a respectful discourse and actively prevent people from understanding each other better.
If you can't accept my explanation that clearly has no racist intent, and you want to imagine that all people who don't agree with kneeling are racist. Then I don't know what to say to you. There is no point adding to this thread any further because I have expressed my opinion as clearly as possible and I suppose you are free to distort it and try and call me racist. In that case you would just be being ignorant. |
if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....
your mealy-mouthed appeasing of racists isn't fooling anyone.
no-one who isn't racist cares that black lives matter had some marxist members, the meaning has changed vastly, and the only ones claiming that all these footballers are making a marxist statement are the same people who threw bananas in the '70s.
the people booing a stand against racism have no wish to understand anything, they're mindless bigots and no amount of both-sides ing from you or your precious farages/yaxley-lennons (also living aboad and attempting to poison our culture) will change that | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 09:27 - Oct 22 with 1675 views | noggin |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 09:23 - Oct 22 by positivity |
if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....
your mealy-mouthed appeasing of racists isn't fooling anyone.
no-one who isn't racist cares that black lives matter had some marxist members, the meaning has changed vastly, and the only ones claiming that all these footballers are making a marxist statement are the same people who threw bananas in the '70s.
the people booing a stand against racism have no wish to understand anything, they're mindless bigots and no amount of both-sides ing from you or your precious farages/yaxley-lennons (also living aboad and attempting to poison our culture) will change that |
Spot on | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 09:35 - Oct 22 with 1642 views | Ryorry |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:44 - Oct 22 by Europablue |
So many things in your response are wrong, and it is arrogant of you to say that only black people have a say.
First racism is not just about black people, secondly the game isn't for one race to dictate to another race what to do (that is what it sounds like you are saying).
Why on earth would you not want to be considerate of English culture and heritage concerning attitudes to kneeling?
Finally, this is just a forum where we are stating our opinions. "it's not your call to make" can be used towards anyone who is not involved at the high level of professional sport. |
Pushed for time, so in brief - Asian, people of Far Eastern and Antipodean heritages obviously experience racism too.
You, however are Caucasian (from reading rest of thread) and have no right to try and impose your preferences on those who are actually experiencing racism. To do so is an echo of colonialism - arrogant and offensive. | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:27 - Oct 22 with 1537 views | Mullet |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 08:51 - Oct 22 by positivity |
anyone interested in a sweepstake on when the next racist trope will appear from europablue?
i'm going with "all lives matter" 10:23 |
Well you’ve missed out it seems. You lot could have been a little gentler too.
I’m baffled this didn’t go so well for those who want to boo something as simple as a gesture. It’s weird how only a selected few “get it” and the majority of people don’t.
At least the real reason for the thread is a reassuring look that the tiny minority thick and racist enough to boo it aren’t representative of Town fans I guess. | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:27 - Oct 22 with 1536 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:03 - Oct 21 by Europablue |
Could you please actually just read what I said rather than what you wish I said. Don't dare to tell me what my "true colours" are when you are projecting them on me.
I referred to ignorance of the significance of kneeling. I just said that the stand against racism should take a slightly different form. Isn't it better to be culturally sensitive to cultural norms? Then you bring along a lot of people who support the stand against racism.
You just can't equate people booing a culturally insensitive act to people throwing bananas. For sure a racist who doesn't like any stand against racism would be booing along with the person booing because of the cultural insensitivity of the symbolism of kneeling.
My personal stance is that people in general are too ignorant of cultural significance of certain gestures, but as the majority view shifts, then so do cultural norms. Now the die is set, it is quite futile to boo and I personally would be neutral. I will defend people who would boo, just to say that it isn't proof that they are racist. |
I heard a few boos in Lower North and saw a young lad who appeared a bit agitated and/or drunk, in a Stone Island type jacket, giving it a w@nker sign as well (a few rows in front so couldn't tell if he was booing).
He certainly didn't come across as being concerned about the cultural insensitivity of the symbolism of kneeling. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:35 - Oct 22 with 1510 views | leitrimblue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:03 - Oct 21 by Europablue |
Could you please actually just read what I said rather than what you wish I said. Don't dare to tell me what my "true colours" are when you are projecting them on me.
I referred to ignorance of the significance of kneeling. I just said that the stand against racism should take a slightly different form. Isn't it better to be culturally sensitive to cultural norms? Then you bring along a lot of people who support the stand against racism.
You just can't equate people booing a culturally insensitive act to people throwing bananas. For sure a racist who doesn't like any stand against racism would be booing along with the person booing because of the cultural insensitivity of the symbolism of kneeling.
My personal stance is that people in general are too ignorant of cultural significance of certain gestures, but as the majority view shifts, then so do cultural norms. Now the die is set, it is quite futile to boo and I personally would be neutral. I will defend people who would boo, just to say that it isn't proof that they are racist. |
Any chance you could clarify a few things for us Europa?
When you say for instance ' Isnt it better to be culturally sensitive to cultural norms?' What cultural norms is taking the knee not being culturally sensitive too?
What are the 'cultural insensitivities of the symbolism of Kneeing'?
What is it about taking the knee you find culturally insensitive? |  | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:41 - Oct 22 with 1413 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:35 - Oct 22 by leitrimblue |
Any chance you could clarify a few things for us Europa?
When you say for instance ' Isnt it better to be culturally sensitive to cultural norms?' What cultural norms is taking the knee not being culturally sensitive too?
What are the 'cultural insensitivities of the symbolism of Kneeing'?
What is it about taking the knee you find culturally insensitive? |
Thank you for engaging in a respectful manner and not telling me what I actually think and believe. You are the kind of person who is worthy of responding to.
I'm more than willing to accept that as someone in my 40s, that I am beyond the cultural zeitgeist. It might be that this is like taking the Lord's name in vain. Highly offensive to some, but perfectly fine for the majority.
I think all of your questions can be answered in one. The issue I have with kneeling is that it symbolizes submission and subservience. Particularly to English people I think kneeling has a cultural significance that it doesn't have to Americans. In that you were expected to kneel to the king, usually compelled to through threat of violence. In American culture the equivalent would be "kiss the ring" (maybe that also comes from Europe somewhere). Previously the American cultural significance of "taking a knee" was just to compose yourself and contemplate especially in a sporting context. Religious people might think that you only kneel to God. I'm not saying I agree with them, but I'm saying I can see why they would oppose kneeling with a justification with no relation to anything racial.
I just think the simple solution would have been to choose a different form or symbolism to avoid this whole issue. It does seem like the die has been cast now. I'm not going to boo kneeling at the next match I go to (I'm not kneeling or booing in my living room). I now just respectfully appreciate that just because kneeling is offensive, does not mean that their intention is to be offensive in that way.
I might be sheltered, but I don't know anyone who is racist (dislikes people based on their race), and I don't come across racism in my daily life. I have never witnessed racial abuse at a football match, I would remember as that would have shocked me. I might not be aware of some discrimination that some refer to as "micro-aggressions" (that term is poor phrasing because it is ignorance rather than aggression).
I don't live in a big city, but it is fairly racially and culturally diverse even in villages where I live now and lived before. I think people tend to project their experiences on others and I understand how people who live a very different reality could see me as denying racism in their lives. I have experienced racism when I lived in Japan, like people don't want their daughters to date you, or people crossed the road when they saw you, or pretended that you can't speak the local language. I don't experience racism in Germany because any discrimination I may suffer is based on being English or having an accent, or maybe just because it's annoying to deal with people who don't speak your language properly.
The thing is, I can't judge the prejudice that others see and try not to project my life experiences on them. I am just asking them to consider another possibility: most people just aren't racist and there is a better explanation than a knee-jerk reaction. | | | |
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