| Booing the knee from itfc fans? 18:10 - Oct 20 with 27627 views | Mullet |
Was this particularly widespread/loud? This clip seems to pick up one fella or so. Obviously, anyone doing it is an ignorant prick but I’d hope it’s totally isolated. |  |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:04 - Oct 22 with 2176 views | eireblue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:41 - Oct 22 by Europablue |
Thank you for engaging in a respectful manner and not telling me what I actually think and believe. You are the kind of person who is worthy of responding to.
I'm more than willing to accept that as someone in my 40s, that I am beyond the cultural zeitgeist. It might be that this is like taking the Lord's name in vain. Highly offensive to some, but perfectly fine for the majority.
I think all of your questions can be answered in one. The issue I have with kneeling is that it symbolizes submission and subservience. Particularly to English people I think kneeling has a cultural significance that it doesn't have to Americans. In that you were expected to kneel to the king, usually compelled to through threat of violence. In American culture the equivalent would be "kiss the ring" (maybe that also comes from Europe somewhere). Previously the American cultural significance of "taking a knee" was just to compose yourself and contemplate especially in a sporting context. Religious people might think that you only kneel to God. I'm not saying I agree with them, but I'm saying I can see why they would oppose kneeling with a justification with no relation to anything racial.
I just think the simple solution would have been to choose a different form or symbolism to avoid this whole issue. It does seem like the die has been cast now. I'm not going to boo kneeling at the next match I go to (I'm not kneeling or booing in my living room). I now just respectfully appreciate that just because kneeling is offensive, does not mean that their intention is to be offensive in that way.
I might be sheltered, but I don't know anyone who is racist (dislikes people based on their race), and I don't come across racism in my daily life. I have never witnessed racial abuse at a football match, I would remember as that would have shocked me. I might not be aware of some discrimination that some refer to as "micro-aggressions" (that term is poor phrasing because it is ignorance rather than aggression).
I don't live in a big city, but it is fairly racially and culturally diverse even in villages where I live now and lived before. I think people tend to project their experiences on others and I understand how people who live a very different reality could see me as denying racism in their lives. I have experienced racism when I lived in Japan, like people don't want their daughters to date you, or people crossed the road when they saw you, or pretended that you can't speak the local language. I don't experience racism in Germany because any discrimination I may suffer is based on being English or having an accent, or maybe just because it's annoying to deal with people who don't speak your language properly.
The thing is, I can't judge the prejudice that others see and try not to project my life experiences on them. I am just asking them to consider another possibility: most people just aren't racist and there is a better explanation than a knee-jerk reaction. |
Ahhh man you are going to be so relieved.
That was only Dukes that had to do that sort of thing at Coronations and the like. The current King got rid of that nonsense.
You can relax, even if you are a Duke.
Honestly, even us Irish Catholics, man there is a lot of kneeling and genuflecting, we don’t get confused by it all, happy for people to take a knee, we don’t mind or get confused, we understand what’s going on. |  | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:14 - Oct 22 with 2158 views | Ryorry |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:41 - Oct 22 by Europablue |
Thank you for engaging in a respectful manner and not telling me what I actually think and believe. You are the kind of person who is worthy of responding to.
I'm more than willing to accept that as someone in my 40s, that I am beyond the cultural zeitgeist. It might be that this is like taking the Lord's name in vain. Highly offensive to some, but perfectly fine for the majority.
I think all of your questions can be answered in one. The issue I have with kneeling is that it symbolizes submission and subservience. Particularly to English people I think kneeling has a cultural significance that it doesn't have to Americans. In that you were expected to kneel to the king, usually compelled to through threat of violence. In American culture the equivalent would be "kiss the ring" (maybe that also comes from Europe somewhere). Previously the American cultural significance of "taking a knee" was just to compose yourself and contemplate especially in a sporting context. Religious people might think that you only kneel to God. I'm not saying I agree with them, but I'm saying I can see why they would oppose kneeling with a justification with no relation to anything racial.
I just think the simple solution would have been to choose a different form or symbolism to avoid this whole issue. It does seem like the die has been cast now. I'm not going to boo kneeling at the next match I go to (I'm not kneeling or booing in my living room). I now just respectfully appreciate that just because kneeling is offensive, does not mean that their intention is to be offensive in that way.
I might be sheltered, but I don't know anyone who is racist (dislikes people based on their race), and I don't come across racism in my daily life. I have never witnessed racial abuse at a football match, I would remember as that would have shocked me. I might not be aware of some discrimination that some refer to as "micro-aggressions" (that term is poor phrasing because it is ignorance rather than aggression).
I don't live in a big city, but it is fairly racially and culturally diverse even in villages where I live now and lived before. I think people tend to project their experiences on others and I understand how people who live a very different reality could see me as denying racism in their lives. I have experienced racism when I lived in Japan, like people don't want their daughters to date you, or people crossed the road when they saw you, or pretended that you can't speak the local language. I don't experience racism in Germany because any discrimination I may suffer is based on being English or having an accent, or maybe just because it's annoying to deal with people who don't speak your language properly.
The thing is, I can't judge the prejudice that others see and try not to project my life experiences on them. I am just asking them to consider another possibility: most people just aren't racist and there is a better explanation than a knee-jerk reaction. |
"The issue I have with kneeling is that it symbolizes submission and subservience."
But it doesn't to the footballers (of whatever ethnicity) who choose to take the knee.
That's what counts. It's not about you. |  |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:37 - Oct 22 with 2066 views | Mullet |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:14 - Oct 22 by Ryorry |
"The issue I have with kneeling is that it symbolizes submission and subservience."
But it doesn't to the footballers (of whatever ethnicity) who choose to take the knee.
That's what counts. It's not about you. |
Being seen to submit to not being racist being the issue is very enlightening in fairness. The fact these people are scared of that does need addressing I’d say. | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:38 - Oct 22 with 2063 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:14 - Oct 22 by Ryorry |
"The issue I have with kneeling is that it symbolizes submission and subservience."
But it doesn't to the footballers (of whatever ethnicity) who choose to take the knee.
That's what counts. It's not about you. |
That's what counts to them. I can accept that, but I can't accept a symbolic gesture I find offensive to support a campaign that I do support.
Cultural sensitivity goes both ways. You can ask me to be culturally sensitive of other beliefs and cultures and I can ask the same for my beliefs and culture. You are free to ignore it, but you should at least respect it. |  | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:41 - Oct 22 with 2050 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:04 - Oct 22 by eireblue |
Ahhh man you are going to be so relieved.
That was only Dukes that had to do that sort of thing at Coronations and the like. The current King got rid of that nonsense.
You can relax, even if you are a Duke.
Honestly, even us Irish Catholics, man there is a lot of kneeling and genuflecting, we don’t get confused by it all, happy for people to take a knee, we don’t mind or get confused, we understand what’s going on. |
I see what you did there, very clever. You ridiculed my beliefs and my basic understanding of the concept.  | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 16:59 - Oct 22 with 1906 views | eireblue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:41 - Oct 22 by Europablue |
I see what you did there, very clever. You ridiculed my beliefs and my basic understanding of the concept. |
“Particularly to English people I think kneeling has a cultural significance….”
Gee, you try and help someone out.
Honestly, you have to trust us on this, in the pubs and coffee shops across England, sure conversations have been happening about cultural and significant things, mental health, misogyny, social media, toxic masculinity, cost of living, but….honest man, no messing with you here, no one is debating kneeling and it’s cultural significance in modern England. No one expressing any angst about kneeling.
You seem to be concerned about this, please you can be reassured, even on obscure Radio 4 discussion programs chaired by Melvyn Bragg, topics such as “kneeling in modern day England a cultural journey and reflections from leading intellectuals from the world of genuflecting” isn’t something that is discussed. I promise you. You can relax. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 18:36 - Oct 22 with 1842 views | yorkshireblue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 15:35 - Oct 21 by Europablue |
They are ignorant in their own way. They don't understand the cultural significance of kneeling.
It would have been an easy thing to adjust. Most people would have been supportive of a gesture that doesn't have such connotations.
The other ignorant thing is taking a movement directly from the US without thought to how the UK is different from the US.
I understand that they are not aware of how offensive kneeling is to some people. So people who kneel are not bad people, and people who don't kneel are not bad people.
A lot of people seem to write people off as bad when probably it is just fitting someone into a box of people you feel free to spew hatred to. I'm not going to support racists or pedos, or whatever, but you have to be very sure before you label someone with such names. |
You do know Kaepernick started taking the knee after it was suggested to him by servicing and former members of the US military as an acceptable way to protest… after previous protests including and not limited to wearing t-shirts with anti-racism messaging, putting a fist in the air, sitting - yes sitting - were deemed as too offensive? |  | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 18:52 - Oct 22 with 1834 views | MK1 |
I am a simple soul and really struggling with why anybody finds players taking the knee offensive. Is it harming anyone? That is a genuine question. Really can't see why are getting so wound up about it. I'm amazed at some of the comments. The only plus is I guess, it has got some on a football forum talking about it, which, if read by some, might make them think twice about equality for all. |  |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 19:02 - Oct 22 with 1818 views | lowhouseblue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 18:52 - Oct 22 by MK1 |
I am a simple soul and really struggling with why anybody finds players taking the knee offensive. Is it harming anyone? That is a genuine question. Really can't see why are getting so wound up about it. I'm amazed at some of the comments. The only plus is I guess, it has got some on a football forum talking about it, which, if read by some, might make them think twice about equality for all. |
when it is clear that players are doing it as a statement against racism i think it's a good thing. on recent occasions all the coverage has made it clear that it is is simply a stand against racism. but it does come with a bit of a history, and previously different groups with a much broader agenda have placed a different political spin on it. it came out of america at a time when american police had murdered an innocent black man - various groups then promoted it as a statement about inequality more generally, or institutional inequality, or state oppression of certain groups. i can seen that many people, including me, weren't comfortable with that much broader political agenda - or why football players should lecture anyone on broad political issues. but when it is just a rejection of racism, as it has explicitly been most recently, then it's great. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 19:27 - Oct 22 with 1739 views | MK1 |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 19:02 - Oct 22 by lowhouseblue |
when it is clear that players are doing it as a statement against racism i think it's a good thing. on recent occasions all the coverage has made it clear that it is is simply a stand against racism. but it does come with a bit of a history, and previously different groups with a much broader agenda have placed a different political spin on it. it came out of america at a time when american police had murdered an innocent black man - various groups then promoted it as a statement about inequality more generally, or institutional inequality, or state oppression of certain groups. i can seen that many people, including me, weren't comfortable with that much broader political agenda - or why football players should lecture anyone on broad political issues. but when it is just a rejection of racism, as it has explicitly been most recently, then it's great. |
Thought the PL & EFL said it was a stance against racism. If that is the case, then what they say or use it for in another country is irrelevant to people watching football in this country.
I am guessing it ain't that simple though? | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 19:36 - Oct 22 with 1728 views | MK1 |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 19:02 - Oct 22 by lowhouseblue |
when it is clear that players are doing it as a statement against racism i think it's a good thing. on recent occasions all the coverage has made it clear that it is is simply a stand against racism. but it does come with a bit of a history, and previously different groups with a much broader agenda have placed a different political spin on it. it came out of america at a time when american police had murdered an innocent black man - various groups then promoted it as a statement about inequality more generally, or institutional inequality, or state oppression of certain groups. i can seen that many people, including me, weren't comfortable with that much broader political agenda - or why football players should lecture anyone on broad political issues. but when it is just a rejection of racism, as it has explicitly been most recently, then it's great. |
Sorry Lowey, my previous reply was intended for Yorkie. Apologies. | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 19:54 - Oct 22 with 1703 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 16:59 - Oct 22 by eireblue |
“Particularly to English people I think kneeling has a cultural significance….”
Gee, you try and help someone out.
Honestly, you have to trust us on this, in the pubs and coffee shops across England, sure conversations have been happening about cultural and significant things, mental health, misogyny, social media, toxic masculinity, cost of living, but….honest man, no messing with you here, no one is debating kneeling and it’s cultural significance in modern England. No one expressing any angst about kneeling.
You seem to be concerned about this, please you can be reassured, even on obscure Radio 4 discussion programs chaired by Melvyn Bragg, topics such as “kneeling in modern day England a cultural journey and reflections from leading intellectuals from the world of genuflecting” isn’t something that is discussed. I promise you. You can relax. |
Although in fairness, the right wing press and grifting commentators seem to have a big issue with it. But in terms of out in the wild, yes it’s a non-issue. I’ve never had anyone mention it to me in person. |  |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 23:27 - Oct 22 with 1605 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:14 - Oct 22 by Ryorry |
"The issue I have with kneeling is that it symbolizes submission and subservience."
But it doesn't to the footballers (of whatever ethnicity) who choose to take the knee.
That's what counts. It's not about you. |
Indeed. In context it symoblises refusal to defer to a flag/ nation which is mistreating you. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:41 - Oct 23 with 1446 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 19:02 - Oct 22 by lowhouseblue |
when it is clear that players are doing it as a statement against racism i think it's a good thing. on recent occasions all the coverage has made it clear that it is is simply a stand against racism. but it does come with a bit of a history, and previously different groups with a much broader agenda have placed a different political spin on it. it came out of america at a time when american police had murdered an innocent black man - various groups then promoted it as a statement about inequality more generally, or institutional inequality, or state oppression of certain groups. i can seen that many people, including me, weren't comfortable with that much broader political agenda - or why football players should lecture anyone on broad political issues. but when it is just a rejection of racism, as it has explicitly been most recently, then it's great. |
That's the thing it has that baggage, so it can't really be separated. That's why I think it would simply be better to express the solidarity with anti-racism a different way. I don't get to dictate anything to anyone, I never said I should. I just get to have an opinion just as everyone else does. I also accept that not liking kneeling is a minority view and I don't expect anything to change. It's also not that important. Everybody knows that the footballers kneeling see it as a symbol of anti-racism and for that whole generation it is. It's as offensive to me as when a European holds up two fingers facing outwards when ordering a couple of beers. it reminds me of an offensive gesture that is only offensive in a different context. Still I have that association and I won't start sticking two fingers up at a bar man.
My entire point is about intent. The intent of the kneeling is not offensive and the intent of at least some of the people (I think a large proportion) booing the associations with kneeling and not the anti-racism message.
Don't get me wrong, I'm barely thinking about the kneeling issue in my daily life. The only reason I am pushing back is because society and as an extension this forum are so polarized with people assigning the worst intentions on people either to score points and for self-validation. Being anti-racist does not make someone special at all, because judging people based on their character is a baseline for being a decent human being. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:43 - Oct 23 with 1441 views | Cotty |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 12:14 - Oct 22 by Ryorry |
"The issue I have with kneeling is that it symbolizes submission and subservience."
But it doesn't to the footballers (of whatever ethnicity) who choose to take the knee.
That's what counts. It's not about you. |
"It's not about you"
Perfect. |  | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:45 - Oct 23 with 1438 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 18:36 - Oct 22 by yorkshireblue |
You do know Kaepernick started taking the knee after it was suggested to him by servicing and former members of the US military as an acceptable way to protest… after previous protests including and not limited to wearing t-shirts with anti-racism messaging, putting a fist in the air, sitting - yes sitting - were deemed as too offensive? |
Thanks for the background. It's proof that cultural sensitivities are way too broad and we can't hope to satisfy everyone and we have to go with the majority view, even if it offends a minority.
I can't think of anything offensive about sitting, and the only thing I could imagine that is offensive about wearing an anti-racism T-shirt is that it could be part of the problem of one use clothing. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:59 - Oct 23 with 1405 views | positivity |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:41 - Oct 23 by Europablue |
That's the thing it has that baggage, so it can't really be separated. That's why I think it would simply be better to express the solidarity with anti-racism a different way. I don't get to dictate anything to anyone, I never said I should. I just get to have an opinion just as everyone else does. I also accept that not liking kneeling is a minority view and I don't expect anything to change. It's also not that important. Everybody knows that the footballers kneeling see it as a symbol of anti-racism and for that whole generation it is. It's as offensive to me as when a European holds up two fingers facing outwards when ordering a couple of beers. it reminds me of an offensive gesture that is only offensive in a different context. Still I have that association and I won't start sticking two fingers up at a bar man.
My entire point is about intent. The intent of the kneeling is not offensive and the intent of at least some of the people (I think a large proportion) booing the associations with kneeling and not the anti-racism message.
Don't get me wrong, I'm barely thinking about the kneeling issue in my daily life. The only reason I am pushing back is because society and as an extension this forum are so polarized with people assigning the worst intentions on people either to score points and for self-validation. Being anti-racist does not make someone special at all, because judging people based on their character is a baseline for being a decent human being. |
i'm afraid if you think that a large proportion of those booing the anti-racism stance are doing it because they don't like kneeling, then you're far more sheltered from reality and modern culture wars than you believe.
it's a tiny, tiny minority, maybe limited to yourself (and as you say, you wouldn't be booing, so it may well be zero) | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:09 - Oct 23 with 1369 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:43 - Oct 23 by Cotty |
"It's not about you"
Perfect. |
Except giving your opinions on a forum is in essence about you! | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:18 - Oct 23 with 1345 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 19:02 - Oct 22 by lowhouseblue |
when it is clear that players are doing it as a statement against racism i think it's a good thing. on recent occasions all the coverage has made it clear that it is is simply a stand against racism. but it does come with a bit of a history, and previously different groups with a much broader agenda have placed a different political spin on it. it came out of america at a time when american police had murdered an innocent black man - various groups then promoted it as a statement about inequality more generally, or institutional inequality, or state oppression of certain groups. i can seen that many people, including me, weren't comfortable with that much broader political agenda - or why football players should lecture anyone on broad political issues. but when it is just a rejection of racism, as it has explicitly been most recently, then it's great. |
I think you make a very good point about BLM which tie into the Chris Kaba thread.
As you say, taking the knee as a statement against racism is a good thing. It highlights the cause and keeps it in the public eye via our national support.
This shouldn't be confused with the statements made by BLMUK which have bene problematic over the past few years. The lastest which urged supporters to gather outside London’s Old Bailey on Monday night to protest the judge’s ruling on PC Blake.
‘NO JUSTICE. NO PEACE,’ was posted online, followed by ‘Join our urgent call for accountability.’
Their twitter statement, after a jury had found PC Blake innocent after a fair and public trial, stated:
"THE POLICE KILLED CHRIS KABA!
Chris Kaba’s family join a long line of other families whose loved ones have been killed by the police and still wait for some accountability.
The police may have been acquitted of murder by the courts but we find them guilty of systemic racism and violence. We believe and organise for police and prison abolition to bring about the lasting change that Chris’ loved ones and many more deserve".
So I think it's important to separate the gesture of taking the knee with some of the more radical statements by BLMUK, something which those supporting the booing are unable to do. |  |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:29 - Oct 23 with 1296 views | Europablue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 10:59 - Oct 23 by positivity |
i'm afraid if you think that a large proportion of those booing the anti-racism stance are doing it because they don't like kneeling, then you're far more sheltered from reality and modern culture wars than you believe.
it's a tiny, tiny minority, maybe limited to yourself (and as you say, you wouldn't be booing, so it may well be zero) |
Thank you for being generous to me and taking me at my word.
I might be sheltered, but from my experience there is so much social stigma against being labelled racist that it is a gross insult to call someone racist or to insinuate that they are racist. I have to be charitable to people who could be just like me in my 20s, very sensitive to being told what to do or feeling like you are being told what to do, say, or feel and acting out without fully considering how you come across.
I also agree with you that there are definitely some people who boo the kneeling under false pretenses and are using that as cover to express their distaste for anti-racism campaigns.
I've been to hundreds of matches at Portman Road from the early 90s and I have never experienced (or been aware of) any racist abuse. I have never heard any booing of the kick it out campaigns. I never had any issue with those campaigns until they imported an American symbol. Even then, I care enough to comment on a forum, but no more.
I have heard racist jokes at school and insensitive comments growing up, but that never bled into football, and some football supporters are some of the most obnoxious people you can imagine.
I have certainly heard things that would be considered homophobic and misogynistic, and not just the odd comments, there used to be popular chants and people even made fun of Justin Fashinu committing suicide. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:34 - Oct 23 with 1269 views | positivity |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:29 - Oct 23 by Europablue |
Thank you for being generous to me and taking me at my word.
I might be sheltered, but from my experience there is so much social stigma against being labelled racist that it is a gross insult to call someone racist or to insinuate that they are racist. I have to be charitable to people who could be just like me in my 20s, very sensitive to being told what to do or feeling like you are being told what to do, say, or feel and acting out without fully considering how you come across.
I also agree with you that there are definitely some people who boo the kneeling under false pretenses and are using that as cover to express their distaste for anti-racism campaigns.
I've been to hundreds of matches at Portman Road from the early 90s and I have never experienced (or been aware of) any racist abuse. I have never heard any booing of the kick it out campaigns. I never had any issue with those campaigns until they imported an American symbol. Even then, I care enough to comment on a forum, but no more.
I have heard racist jokes at school and insensitive comments growing up, but that never bled into football, and some football supporters are some of the most obnoxious people you can imagine.
I have certainly heard things that would be considered homophobic and misogynistic, and not just the odd comments, there used to be popular chants and people even made fun of Justin Fashinu committing suicide. |
you're giving too much credit to morons.
if they're not boo-ing due to a dislike of kneeling, why else would they boo an anti-racism stance other than having racist views?
if it's just that they're "very sensitive to being told what to do or feeling like you are being told what to do, say, or feel", why don't they boo minute's silences? | |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 13:07 - Oct 23 with 1153 views | leitrimblue |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:41 - Oct 22 by Europablue |
Thank you for engaging in a respectful manner and not telling me what I actually think and believe. You are the kind of person who is worthy of responding to.
I'm more than willing to accept that as someone in my 40s, that I am beyond the cultural zeitgeist. It might be that this is like taking the Lord's name in vain. Highly offensive to some, but perfectly fine for the majority.
I think all of your questions can be answered in one. The issue I have with kneeling is that it symbolizes submission and subservience. Particularly to English people I think kneeling has a cultural significance that it doesn't have to Americans. In that you were expected to kneel to the king, usually compelled to through threat of violence. In American culture the equivalent would be "kiss the ring" (maybe that also comes from Europe somewhere). Previously the American cultural significance of "taking a knee" was just to compose yourself and contemplate especially in a sporting context. Religious people might think that you only kneel to God. I'm not saying I agree with them, but I'm saying I can see why they would oppose kneeling with a justification with no relation to anything racial.
I just think the simple solution would have been to choose a different form or symbolism to avoid this whole issue. It does seem like the die has been cast now. I'm not going to boo kneeling at the next match I go to (I'm not kneeling or booing in my living room). I now just respectfully appreciate that just because kneeling is offensive, does not mean that their intention is to be offensive in that way.
I might be sheltered, but I don't know anyone who is racist (dislikes people based on their race), and I don't come across racism in my daily life. I have never witnessed racial abuse at a football match, I would remember as that would have shocked me. I might not be aware of some discrimination that some refer to as "micro-aggressions" (that term is poor phrasing because it is ignorance rather than aggression).
I don't live in a big city, but it is fairly racially and culturally diverse even in villages where I live now and lived before. I think people tend to project their experiences on others and I understand how people who live a very different reality could see me as denying racism in their lives. I have experienced racism when I lived in Japan, like people don't want their daughters to date you, or people crossed the road when they saw you, or pretended that you can't speak the local language. I don't experience racism in Germany because any discrimination I may suffer is based on being English or having an accent, or maybe just because it's annoying to deal with people who don't speak your language properly.
The thing is, I can't judge the prejudice that others see and try not to project my life experiences on them. I am just asking them to consider another possibility: most people just aren't racist and there is a better explanation than a knee-jerk reaction. |
Thanks for your detailed reply and sorry for my late reply. (Suddenly had to run off and do some work yesterday and it's taking longer then expected to resolve).
I don't wish to put words into your mouth, but I did find your reply a little confusing. Am I right in thinking then that your main concerns with kneeling is that to you it purely symbolises 'submission and subservience'?
Or perhaps more accurately that kneeling represents submission and subservience in English culture?
I can't quite work out ( probably my fault) if your saying you also find the kneeling in church and that subservience to god highly offensive or if you find the taking the knee at football matches disrespectful to Christians?
To be honest I'm really struggling to share your importance and the offence taken of kneeling in English culture. Though I do appreciate the length you have gone to in attempting to explain yerself even if I still don't completely get it. |  | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 13:13 - Oct 23 with 1117 views | Ryorry |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 11:09 - Oct 23 by Europablue |
Except giving your opinions on a forum is in essence about you! |
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| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 13:18 - Oct 23 with 1095 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 13:07 - Oct 23 by leitrimblue |
Thanks for your detailed reply and sorry for my late reply. (Suddenly had to run off and do some work yesterday and it's taking longer then expected to resolve).
I don't wish to put words into your mouth, but I did find your reply a little confusing. Am I right in thinking then that your main concerns with kneeling is that to you it purely symbolises 'submission and subservience'?
Or perhaps more accurately that kneeling represents submission and subservience in English culture?
I can't quite work out ( probably my fault) if your saying you also find the kneeling in church and that subservience to god highly offensive or if you find the taking the knee at football matches disrespectful to Christians?
To be honest I'm really struggling to share your importance and the offence taken of kneeling in English culture. Though I do appreciate the length you have gone to in attempting to explain yerself even if I still don't completely get it. |
The stuff about kneeling in British culture is a deflection or excuse. | | | |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 14:53 - Oct 23 with 998 views | Mullet |
| Booing the knee from itfc fans? on 13:18 - Oct 23 by redrickstuhaart |
The stuff about kneeling in British culture is a deflection or excuse. |
Like I said, interesting peek behind the curtain innit | |
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