| Chris Kaba verdict 19:12 - Oct 21 with 28066 views | Zx1988 |
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c17lk592ygdo
Not sure what I make of this.
If, as the article perhaps suggests, the verdict hinged upon the testimony of Blake's fellow firearms officers, I feel a distinct sense of 'they would say that, wouldn't they'.
Is there any other scenario where, essentially, the corroborating testimony of one's chums would be enough to secure a not guilty verdict? |  |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:17 - Oct 22 with 2503 views | leitrimblue |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 12:57 - Oct 22 by DJR |
As Billy Bragg sang.
"It's you and me against the world, kid, she mumbled to herself." |
'When the world falls apart some things stay in place'
Saddest song ever.. |  | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:36 - Oct 22 with 2419 views | Churchman |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 20:10 - Oct 21 by The_Flashing_Smile |
My first thoughts, having seen this on the news, is Kaba rammed the police a couple of times... and the car he was in was linked to an earlier shooting. The family saying justice hasn't been done don't mention these two things.
Call me old fashioned but I've never been in a car linked to a shooting, and I've never rammed the police.
The officer has been cleared, very quickly, by a jury. That, for me, should be enough. We risk being in a situation where no-one wants to be a firearms officer... or people already in that job will hesitate a bit too long and we end up with a disaster on ours hands. |
I’m very much with you on this one, Flash. I know we have posters on here legally qualified who probably have a more ‘correct’ view than me - they of course know what they are talking about and I respect that.
However I take a rather simplistic right or wrong view on such things. Man rams police car or at least tries to evade them in a car known to have been involved in a shooting. They take no chances and shoot him. How exactly were they to know what he was going to do next? Would you wait until he fired first on the ‘maybe’ basis? I wouldn’t and I can understand why the police took the action they did.
I get why the relatives are playing every card they have but I don’t think the police did much wrong in this. I also don’t think an intermediate charge against the police in an incident like this works either. It ends a career potentially unfairly leaving us with one less person to protect us. Yes a fatal shooting should always be properly investigated. But in a court?
I know some peoples’ sympathies are always with the bad guys (love of the Krays, salt of the earth etc) but mine are not. The police do an appallingly difficult job with little support and not enough resources. They don’t always cover themselves in glory and as in every walk of life there will be wrong uns.
For me they need support, licence to do their job and work to improve what they do and how they do it internally and externally.
Back to the chap who has lost his life, if reports are true, it doesn’t look like he had much regard for anyone else’s so no tears from me.
Just a view. |  | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:52 - Oct 22 with 2363 views | JakeITFC |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:36 - Oct 22 by Churchman |
I’m very much with you on this one, Flash. I know we have posters on here legally qualified who probably have a more ‘correct’ view than me - they of course know what they are talking about and I respect that.
However I take a rather simplistic right or wrong view on such things. Man rams police car or at least tries to evade them in a car known to have been involved in a shooting. They take no chances and shoot him. How exactly were they to know what he was going to do next? Would you wait until he fired first on the ‘maybe’ basis? I wouldn’t and I can understand why the police took the action they did.
I get why the relatives are playing every card they have but I don’t think the police did much wrong in this. I also don’t think an intermediate charge against the police in an incident like this works either. It ends a career potentially unfairly leaving us with one less person to protect us. Yes a fatal shooting should always be properly investigated. But in a court?
I know some peoples’ sympathies are always with the bad guys (love of the Krays, salt of the earth etc) but mine are not. The police do an appallingly difficult job with little support and not enough resources. They don’t always cover themselves in glory and as in every walk of life there will be wrong uns.
For me they need support, licence to do their job and work to improve what they do and how they do it internally and externally.
Back to the chap who has lost his life, if reports are true, it doesn’t look like he had much regard for anyone else’s so no tears from me.
Just a view. |
This probably isn't the best example of it, but I can see why family members and campaigners would be up in arms - another case of an unarmed, black man being shot by a policeman and then them closing ranks around them and no guilt being found.
Being an armed policeman is an incredibly difficult job and split second decisions are literally life or death, but I just think it irks that the kind of shoot first and we'll worry about the repercussions later approach (like the USA) seems to be a method of defence that works in these cases. |  | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:57 - Oct 22 with 2345 views | DJR |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:17 - Oct 22 by leitrimblue |
'When the world falls apart some things stay in place'
Saddest song ever.. |
Absolutely, and one of the only songs I can think of which deals with domestic violence. |  | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:05 - Oct 22 with 2295 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:52 - Oct 22 by JakeITFC |
This probably isn't the best example of it, but I can see why family members and campaigners would be up in arms - another case of an unarmed, black man being shot by a policeman and then them closing ranks around them and no guilt being found.
Being an armed policeman is an incredibly difficult job and split second decisions are literally life or death, but I just think it irks that the kind of shoot first and we'll worry about the repercussions later approach (like the USA) seems to be a method of defence that works in these cases. |
He was found not guilty by a jury, not by the police closing ranks.
He was in a car used in a shooting the night before.
He was seen on CCTV shooting someone on a dancefloor and is reported to be the head of a gang.
It wasn't shoot first and ask questions later either. "After being boxed in by police cars, he drove backwards and forwards trying to ram his way free - Mr Blake said this made him believe one of his colleagues would be killed, and he opened fire to stop the car, the jury heard."
And given the above there was a very strong likelihood he was armed.
I can't believe anyone would side with the criminal rather than the police in this case. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:08 - Oct 22 with 2286 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:36 - Oct 22 by Churchman |
I’m very much with you on this one, Flash. I know we have posters on here legally qualified who probably have a more ‘correct’ view than me - they of course know what they are talking about and I respect that.
However I take a rather simplistic right or wrong view on such things. Man rams police car or at least tries to evade them in a car known to have been involved in a shooting. They take no chances and shoot him. How exactly were they to know what he was going to do next? Would you wait until he fired first on the ‘maybe’ basis? I wouldn’t and I can understand why the police took the action they did.
I get why the relatives are playing every card they have but I don’t think the police did much wrong in this. I also don’t think an intermediate charge against the police in an incident like this works either. It ends a career potentially unfairly leaving us with one less person to protect us. Yes a fatal shooting should always be properly investigated. But in a court?
I know some peoples’ sympathies are always with the bad guys (love of the Krays, salt of the earth etc) but mine are not. The police do an appallingly difficult job with little support and not enough resources. They don’t always cover themselves in glory and as in every walk of life there will be wrong uns.
For me they need support, licence to do their job and work to improve what they do and how they do it internally and externally.
Back to the chap who has lost his life, if reports are true, it doesn’t look like he had much regard for anyone else’s so no tears from me.
Just a view. |
Don't see how anyone can really disagree with that. He also shot somebody in an East London club 6 days before the incident.
Clearly regrettable that he lost his life, I think that goes without saying but lets call a spade a spade on the evidence we have he was a wrong un. I can't say I have too much sympathy for the bloke. |  | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:10 - Oct 22 with 2284 views | RegencyBlue |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 10:14 - Oct 22 by DJR |
I would feel the same if an unarmed relative of mine was killed.
As regards his violence, the car appeared to me to be hemmed in, and his speed never exceeded 12 mph. [Post edited 22 Oct 2024 10:20]
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Which is still going to do serious damage if it crushes an individual against another car.
Kaba had a choice to make, do what he was told to do by armed police officers, who correctly identified themselves and warned him, or do what he actually did and take the consequences.
Given what he did and what has come out this morning about his criminal background, the fact he was known to carry and use firearms and was driving a car used in a shooting a week before, Mr Kaba made a very poor choice! |  | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:13 - Oct 22 with 2260 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:08 - Oct 22 by _clive_baker_ |
Don't see how anyone can really disagree with that. He also shot somebody in an East London club 6 days before the incident.
Clearly regrettable that he lost his life, I think that goes without saying but lets call a spade a spade on the evidence we have he was a wrong un. I can't say I have too much sympathy for the bloke. |
Indeed. And the family playing the 'Another young black man killed by police violence' card whilst at the same time trying to suppress the truth about Kaba is not a good look, and if anything makes things worse for the cause. [Post edited 22 Oct 2024 14:48]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:24 - Oct 22 with 2233 views | cressi |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:13 - Oct 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Indeed. And the family playing the 'Another young black man killed by police violence' card whilst at the same time trying to suppress the truth about Kaba is not a good look, and if anything makes things worse for the cause. [Post edited 22 Oct 2024 14:48]
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He was a thug and got what was coming irrespective of colour
Don't need people like this on the streets. | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:34 - Oct 22 with 2188 views | lowhouseblue |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:13 - Oct 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Indeed. And the family playing the 'Another young black man killed by police violence' card whilst at the same time trying to suppress the truth about Kaba is not a good look, and if anything makes things worse for the cause. [Post edited 22 Oct 2024 14:48]
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the whole thing is tragic. but we ask armed police officers to carry out duties on behalf of the public and unless there is very strong evidence of misconduct we shouldn't put them through a court process like this. it feels to me that the cps didn't believe there was the likelihood of a conviction but took the case to court anyway to avoid the criticism that would otherwise have come its way. a charge of murder is very difficult to rationalise. it's not a good way to have treated the officer. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:35 - Oct 22 with 2186 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:05 - Oct 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
He was found not guilty by a jury, not by the police closing ranks.
He was in a car used in a shooting the night before.
He was seen on CCTV shooting someone on a dancefloor and is reported to be the head of a gang.
It wasn't shoot first and ask questions later either. "After being boxed in by police cars, he drove backwards and forwards trying to ram his way free - Mr Blake said this made him believe one of his colleagues would be killed, and he opened fire to stop the car, the jury heard."
And given the above there was a very strong likelihood he was armed.
I can't believe anyone would side with the criminal rather than the police in this case. |
“ He was found not guilty by a jury, not by the police closing ranks.”
This.
There’s unfortunately been loads of whitewash internal investigations (particularly with the Met). But this is clearly not one of them, it’s a fair trial by jury. Those who are trying to politicise the findings are going down a slippery slope - we’ve had years of the Tories (and in the US Trump) undermining court’s decisions and attacking judges etc and that undermines faith in our judiciary.
He wasn’t really unarmed - he was in control of a 2.3 tonne SUV, at the end of the day it seems the police acted by the book and were reasonable in trying to protect themselves. | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:37 - Oct 22 with 2168 views | hype313 |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:34 - Oct 22 by lowhouseblue |
the whole thing is tragic. but we ask armed police officers to carry out duties on behalf of the public and unless there is very strong evidence of misconduct we shouldn't put them through a court process like this. it feels to me that the cps didn't believe there was the likelihood of a conviction but took the case to court anyway to avoid the criticism that would otherwise have come its way. a charge of murder is very difficult to rationalise. it's not a good way to have treated the officer. |
"Those who find themselves shot by police are rarely innocents. But our very British obsession with never speaking ill of the dead invariably leaves the police treated like the criminals while the deceased, however bad, are painted as caring fathers-to-be, talented musicians, footballers and, most importantly, victims.
The public is only now finding out the whole truth about Chris Kaba, his violent criminality and that of his “music collective”.
That they should have all benefited from anonymity, granted by the courts, while Martyn Blake was denied the same privilege, isn’t just ironic, it’s a national disgrace. Something has to change."
From an ex armed Police Officer that went through a similar case. |  |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:52 - Oct 22 with 2089 views | Churchman |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 13:52 - Oct 22 by JakeITFC |
This probably isn't the best example of it, but I can see why family members and campaigners would be up in arms - another case of an unarmed, black man being shot by a policeman and then them closing ranks around them and no guilt being found.
Being an armed policeman is an incredibly difficult job and split second decisions are literally life or death, but I just think it irks that the kind of shoot first and we'll worry about the repercussions later approach (like the USA) seems to be a method of defence that works in these cases. |
Sorry, I have to disagree. What would you have done? Wait and see what he did? It’d take a very brave or stupid person to do that. As for guilt, that lay with the man that died. He put himself in that position if reports are true. Sometimes, there is no other guilt to be found. As for the family, I understand their reasons. I just don’t agree with them
I didn’t mention the colour of his skin. Personally, I don’t see colour. The law, consequences and actions should be applied to all. As for the USA people who try and maintain the law in all countries have my sympathy.
What a difficult, awful, dangerous job a lot of them have. | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:06 - Oct 22 with 2032 views | JakeITFC |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:05 - Oct 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
He was found not guilty by a jury, not by the police closing ranks.
He was in a car used in a shooting the night before.
He was seen on CCTV shooting someone on a dancefloor and is reported to be the head of a gang.
It wasn't shoot first and ask questions later either. "After being boxed in by police cars, he drove backwards and forwards trying to ram his way free - Mr Blake said this made him believe one of his colleagues would be killed, and he opened fire to stop the car, the jury heard."
And given the above there was a very strong likelihood he was armed.
I can't believe anyone would side with the criminal rather than the police in this case. |
I’m not siding with anybody, just explaining why some people could be upset at the verdict.
The jury of course determined the policeman had the right to shoot him and the CPS obviously thought there was enough to say he shouldn’t have. My point around the closing ranks was targeted more at the 100 officers handing in their permits and many more offering to do so should the accused be found guilty.
The guy was clearly a villain, but the guy pulling the trigger didn’t know that at the time - there are of course past examples of faulty information being passed down to officers at a scene like this. | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:12 - Oct 22 with 2004 views | JakeITFC |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 14:52 - Oct 22 by Churchman |
Sorry, I have to disagree. What would you have done? Wait and see what he did? It’d take a very brave or stupid person to do that. As for guilt, that lay with the man that died. He put himself in that position if reports are true. Sometimes, there is no other guilt to be found. As for the family, I understand their reasons. I just don’t agree with them
I didn’t mention the colour of his skin. Personally, I don’t see colour. The law, consequences and actions should be applied to all. As for the USA people who try and maintain the law in all countries have my sympathy.
What a difficult, awful, dangerous job a lot of them have. |
What I would do isn’t in question as I wouldn’t put myself in the position of the policeman - that is an incredibly high pressure, high risk job and it must be horrendous to have to live with the consequences (whether the shooting was just or not) of one’s actions. Despite all of that, I do think they have a responsibility to act within the law, and in this instance shooting the guy dead seemed a very early measure to have taken.
Unfortunately in this instance context is important - the Met have a record of both treating black people unfairly and killing people in a way that could be considered unlawful (and then getting away with it). | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:18 - Oct 22 with 1981 views | lowhouseblue |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:06 - Oct 22 by JakeITFC |
I’m not siding with anybody, just explaining why some people could be upset at the verdict.
The jury of course determined the policeman had the right to shoot him and the CPS obviously thought there was enough to say he shouldn’t have. My point around the closing ranks was targeted more at the 100 officers handing in their permits and many more offering to do so should the accused be found guilty.
The guy was clearly a villain, but the guy pulling the trigger didn’t know that at the time - there are of course past examples of faulty information being passed down to officers at a scene like this. |
"the CPS obviously thought there was enough to say he shouldn’t have"
the alternative of course is that the cps knew full well that a jury would find him innocent but that taking it to court would avoid the cps having to take responsibility for the decision. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:45 - Oct 22 with 1896 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:06 - Oct 22 by JakeITFC |
I’m not siding with anybody, just explaining why some people could be upset at the verdict.
The jury of course determined the policeman had the right to shoot him and the CPS obviously thought there was enough to say he shouldn’t have. My point around the closing ranks was targeted more at the 100 officers handing in their permits and many more offering to do so should the accused be found guilty.
The guy was clearly a villain, but the guy pulling the trigger didn’t know that at the time - there are of course past examples of faulty information being passed down to officers at a scene like this. |
You said, "a black man being shot by a policeman and then them closing ranks around them and no guilt being found" - putting those words together like that makes it look like he wasn't found guilty because the police closed ranks. The two aren't related.
The policeman did know the car was used in a shooting the previous day, and whoever was driving was trying to evade capture and was ramming police cars. So yes, the policeman did know he was a villain. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:49 - Oct 22 with 1871 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:12 - Oct 22 by JakeITFC |
What I would do isn’t in question as I wouldn’t put myself in the position of the policeman - that is an incredibly high pressure, high risk job and it must be horrendous to have to live with the consequences (whether the shooting was just or not) of one’s actions. Despite all of that, I do think they have a responsibility to act within the law, and in this instance shooting the guy dead seemed a very early measure to have taken.
Unfortunately in this instance context is important - the Met have a record of both treating black people unfairly and killing people in a way that could be considered unlawful (and then getting away with it). |
Yes context is important. The context here is the car had been used in a shooting the previous day and was ramming police cars to escape. Previous cases don't come into it, those were the facts known to police in this instance. Therefore the actions by the police are entirely justified - in this specific case - and an impartial jury agreed. | |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:51 - Oct 22 with 1864 views | JakeITFC |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:45 - Oct 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You said, "a black man being shot by a policeman and then them closing ranks around them and no guilt being found" - putting those words together like that makes it look like he wasn't found guilty because the police closed ranks. The two aren't related.
The policeman did know the car was used in a shooting the previous day, and whoever was driving was trying to evade capture and was ramming police cars. So yes, the policeman did know he was a villain. |
But it is easy to see how somebody might relate them, given the history.
This guy clearly had a bad history, was going to face justice at some point soon and shouldn't have been surprised that he'd been pulled over, but on the actual thing in question here (i.e. should the copper have killed him in those specific circumstances) I'd say the police had grounds that were far from firm, and that's why it has ended up in court. | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:58 - Oct 22 with 1826 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:51 - Oct 22 by JakeITFC |
But it is easy to see how somebody might relate them, given the history.
This guy clearly had a bad history, was going to face justice at some point soon and shouldn't have been surprised that he'd been pulled over, but on the actual thing in question here (i.e. should the copper have killed him in those specific circumstances) I'd say the police had grounds that were far from firm, and that's why it has ended up in court. |
As others have said, it probably ended up in court to absolve the CPS of making a decision and - ironically - to show the police were being above board in this instance. If they'd had an internal enquiry and found no fault that would look far worse.
Also you say "should the copper have killed him" - are you sure the copper was trying to kill him or merely injure him or simply stop the car? Would the copper even have had time to make that decision? I think without knowing we should say, "should the copper have shot at him?" We don't know he'd made a decision to kill and then carried it out.
If you're saying you don't think the police had firm grounds to shoot at a man who is ramming them in a car that was used in a shooting the previous day... then I'm not sure what grounds would be firm enough! | |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 16:07 - Oct 22 with 1785 views | JakeITFC |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 15:58 - Oct 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
As others have said, it probably ended up in court to absolve the CPS of making a decision and - ironically - to show the police were being above board in this instance. If they'd had an internal enquiry and found no fault that would look far worse.
Also you say "should the copper have killed him" - are you sure the copper was trying to kill him or merely injure him or simply stop the car? Would the copper even have had time to make that decision? I think without knowing we should say, "should the copper have shot at him?" We don't know he'd made a decision to kill and then carried it out.
If you're saying you don't think the police had firm grounds to shoot at a man who is ramming them in a car that was used in a shooting the previous day... then I'm not sure what grounds would be firm enough! |
Possibly - but that does a border a bit on conspiracy (and isn’t fair on the family of the victim or the accused policeman).
I think there is a distinction to be made there on the shooting because he did kill him with a gunshot to the head. Whether there were other ways of stopping him I’m sure was considered in the evidence/CPS case but are far from my sphere on knowledge (but obviously are still important to consider, although obviously this evidence comes from serving/ex-police usually). | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 16:25 - Oct 22 with 1732 views | Ryorry |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 16:07 - Oct 22 by JakeITFC |
Possibly - but that does a border a bit on conspiracy (and isn’t fair on the family of the victim or the accused policeman).
I think there is a distinction to be made there on the shooting because he did kill him with a gunshot to the head. Whether there were other ways of stopping him I’m sure was considered in the evidence/CPS case but are far from my sphere on knowledge (but obviously are still important to consider, although obviously this evidence comes from serving/ex-police usually). |
Happy to be corrected if wrong, but the copper shot him *through the windscreen*. So a very limited target area, no?
And if someone ordered by armed police to stop, get out of the car, put their hands on their head etc. doesn't, but instead does the opposite and tries to escape by brute force, you'd ask yourself why, wouldn't you? What assumption would you draw from that? Pretty sure I'd think he was armed, cornered, an imminent threat, very dangerous. |  |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 16:38 - Oct 22 with 1710 views | JakeITFC |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 16:25 - Oct 22 by Ryorry |
Happy to be corrected if wrong, but the copper shot him *through the windscreen*. So a very limited target area, no?
And if someone ordered by armed police to stop, get out of the car, put their hands on their head etc. doesn't, but instead does the opposite and tries to escape by brute force, you'd ask yourself why, wouldn't you? What assumption would you draw from that? Pretty sure I'd think he was armed, cornered, an imminent threat, very dangerous. |
Well yeah that’s the point - as soon as he shoots in this instance he’s fairly sure that it will be fatal.
On the facts of the matter at that point that seemed to be in the region of an excessive decision. When you add the layers of historic context etc. then you could see why somebody close to the man who was shot might be put out by the outcome. | | | |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 17:20 - Oct 22 with 1647 views | Ryorry |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 16:38 - Oct 22 by JakeITFC |
Well yeah that’s the point - as soon as he shoots in this instance he’s fairly sure that it will be fatal.
On the facts of the matter at that point that seemed to be in the region of an excessive decision. When you add the layers of historic context etc. then you could see why somebody close to the man who was shot might be put out by the outcome. |
What other options would they have had? Tasers wouldn't work from outside a car to inside.
I'm sorry for the family, but it always was a question of "why would someone cornered by armed police not comply with their instructions, and instead choose to try & get away through brute force, not caring what injuries he might cause to others in the process".
He (Kaba) did have a choice, it looks from all the known evidence that the copper didn't. Even if the police cars had backed off, there'd seem a very high chance that Kaba would have endangered the lives of others through reckless disregard in a get-away on public roads. | |
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| Chris Kaba verdict on 17:59 - Oct 22 with 1586 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Chris Kaba verdict on 16:25 - Oct 22 by Ryorry |
Happy to be corrected if wrong, but the copper shot him *through the windscreen*. So a very limited target area, no?
And if someone ordered by armed police to stop, get out of the car, put their hands on their head etc. doesn't, but instead does the opposite and tries to escape by brute force, you'd ask yourself why, wouldn't you? What assumption would you draw from that? Pretty sure I'd think he was armed, cornered, an imminent threat, very dangerous. |
And also you have to add in that the car was known to have been used in a shooting the previous day. That's a massive bit of context the policeman will have in his mind. It's more likely that the driver has a gun than any other car to be honest! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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