| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? 11:41 - Dec 5 with 3671 views | quad |
As much as McKenna has tried to play down the Palace game as being a 6-pointer, it still feels like that game was massive for us, and what we thought was a very winnable game has not gone our way. Maybe we were even guilty of being too over-confident.
I may be bedwetting, but has this result made us consider a few home truths? As in we're not good enough? And as much of a pr*ck as Shearer has been on MOTD, was he actually correct in what he was saying and do we accept that we are likely to be shoe-ins for relegation? We're likely better than Southampton perhaps, but can we do better than the others in the bottom six over the course of the season?
I just feel like that game must have been massive for the players and supporters confidence. How do we feel about our chances of avoiding relegation and do we feel that we have what it takes that we can turn things around? Is this going to be dependent on new signings in January and will that make a huge difference?
I would just like to guage if others still feel like we can survive, or whether that result has just destroyed any belief that we might otherwise have had?
I don't know how to feel about it. I just feel like we can't afford to squander opportunities to gain points against relegation rivals, as we are unlikely to get many points against the top sides. Feels like the Spurs result was likely very much a one-off... |  | | |  |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 11:53 - Dec 5 with 3285 views | FrimleyBlue |
I feel torn between trusting his methods, afterall they haven't failed us, to also remembering he hasn't managed in the prem yet, so whilst some are easy to claim certain players aren't ready for it or capable of it.... what automatically makes KM prem level? Sure his style is and man management is brilliant, but there's things happening which makes you wonder if like the club, he's been promoted too soon himself.
The no cb back up on the bench, it hasn't hurt him yet, but it is incredibly risky
The subs, timings and predictability of them
The style doesn't really change no matter who we're playing, sometimes that's a positive, but sometimes you feel it needs something slightly different. I know the roles move around the game, the style doesn't really change.
Something that bugs me which probably shouldn't, is the management and player talk of it's a bump in the road, but plenty of games left. The thing is, there isn't that many games left. Sure there are technically, but purely based on staying up alone, this 1 win in ... games is killing us, as much as those around us are killing themselves.
I mentioned yesturday to Keno about Jan, we know we will get reinforcements, but if we were to fall 3/4 wins away from safety, that's incredibly tough to overcome when between Jan and May there will only be 19 games left to play. it sounds a lot, but 8 of those will be against the top 8 clubs.
So i'd like to see a bit more determination into seeing something different to try and win these specific games, whether that's chucking 3 uptop late on, or sticking a random defender for heigh uptop and getting balls into the box. Just something to see us desperately trying to get 3 points, rather than hoping the usual style will be ok then after just viewing it as a bump in the road with plenty of games left. Or as I mentioned the other day,sacrificing certain games to give you a fully fit one for the next.. [Post edited 5 Dec 2024 12:00]
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 11:59 - Dec 5 with 3241 views | textbackup |
For me, put simply, I’d rather go down with KM as our boss, having us play as we do, over staying up by skin of teeth with Steve Bruce (for example)
I can handle it being a step too far, too much too soon etc.
Because we, KM, players will learn from the experience. Would be no shame in it, or tears shed.
We’ve given it a half decent go so far IMO
I would still like to see us bring in a few beasts to maybe compete against those around us better |  |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 12:08 - Dec 5 with 3182 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 11:59 - Dec 5 by textbackup |
For me, put simply, I’d rather go down with KM as our boss, having us play as we do, over staying up by skin of teeth with Steve Bruce (for example)
I can handle it being a step too far, too much too soon etc.
Because we, KM, players will learn from the experience. Would be no shame in it, or tears shed.
We’ve given it a half decent go so far IMO
I would still like to see us bring in a few beasts to maybe compete against those around us better |
There is of course a middle ground, where we mix up our play a little. |  |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 12:13 - Dec 5 with 3140 views | quad |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 11:59 - Dec 5 by textbackup |
For me, put simply, I’d rather go down with KM as our boss, having us play as we do, over staying up by skin of teeth with Steve Bruce (for example)
I can handle it being a step too far, too much too soon etc.
Because we, KM, players will learn from the experience. Would be no shame in it, or tears shed.
We’ve given it a half decent go so far IMO
I would still like to see us bring in a few beasts to maybe compete against those around us better |
Agree with all that. No shame or tears shed if it's a step too far either, as we're showing we are at least competing and the players are clearly giving it everything.
Just feels like a massive rollercoaster ride. Every time we play really well against one of the teams considered to be better, we follow up with a more abject performance against one of the considered lesser sides.
So I'm swaying between feeling confident and optimistic to feeling like we don't have enough about us and pessimistic practically every week.
Guessing it's going to continue like that for the rest of the season. Which makes for huge anxiety every game. Maybe just best to say C'est la vie and let what will be, be. | | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 12:34 - Dec 5 with 3008 views | BloomBlue |
I genuinely think there are sufficient matches remaining to achieve survival but it will be tight.
Why the Palace game was important is because we need a home win. The pressure of not winning is obviously weighing heavy on the players shoulders. Similar to the 'no wins' before the Spurs. You could see the relief from the reaction of players and mgmt at the final whistle of that game.
A worry is people starting to say Ipswich remind them of Luton & Burnley from last season, lots of effort, some nice passages of play, staying in games, but making silly mistakes, not taking the opportunities. |  | | |
| Scowcroft and Micah Richards think we’ll stay up, we have McKenna and Jan on 12:35 - Dec 5 with 3010 views | unstableblue |
Scowcroft told TWTV he was confident of Town survival and even gave a points tally. Micah Richards told MOTD last night that we’ll be OK, with some adjustments.
McKenna is the real deal and he will get us results, yes our right side is weakened, but Johnson will return. Phillips is coming back in.
We are lite in depth of quality as compared to our peers, but Saints and Wolves continue to struggle, Leicester are not guaranteed to prosper. Everton had a good night but Wolves were open.
We’ve remained competitive in a lot of game, probably failed to be at our best in 3 or 4.
We need a strong January window and for fans to support and tear each game as a free hit, and something to celebrate. The support was not good enough Tuesday, as well as the teams energy.
Let’s have a big Sunday and see where we go from there. |  |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 13:42 - Dec 5 with 2840 views | textbackup |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 12:08 - Dec 5 by Marshalls_Mullet |
There is of course a middle ground, where we mix up our play a little. |
I hear you, and make mention of that in final line, but I don’t think we have the players able to do that currently. We are too small | |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 13:43 - Dec 5 with 2827 views | OldFart71 |
I think there is slowly becoming a point at which we need to start grinding out results. It would be wonderful to play expansive football, scoring goals and entertaining. If you take Palace for instance they are a team set up to get something out of a game and truthfully it's no good continually saying we should have got a draw or won when we didn't. we have to be realistic and admit we are not as good as 75% of the teams in the Premier League. That's no disrespect to the efforts made by management at PR. In truth not many can say they expected us to be in the Premier League now and that's both a blessing and a weight on the shoulders of KM and co as there was little time to replace loan players, players retiring and those that struggled in the Championship. Those that have come in are either struggling for consistency, injured or maybe not good enough. The stand out player probably being Delap. Unless we soon start picking up 3 points against a few sides there's a danger we get cut adrift. | | | |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 14:44 - Dec 5 with 2638 views | RobTheMonk |
Wrong side of many small margins.
- Dogsh1t referee against Leicester. Penalty and potential of 2-0 with no sending off.
- Shot ourselves in the foot against Brentford.
- We did well against Fulham and arguably should have got a win. Same against Villa
So 12 points which could have been gained had we had a bit more experience at this level (in my opinion) and if the ref against Leicester actually did his job properly. |  | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 14:49 - Dec 5 with 2613 views | _clive_baker_ |
I think it can be true that we're both not quite strong enough to stay up, but also that it's despite having McKenna rather than due to having him. He's clearly an excellent coach and a top manager, but he's not a magician. The Premier league is brutal, the step up in quality is ridiculous, and he can only work with what he's got. We might continue to struggle for points but we shouldn't as a fanbase knee jerk that to questioning McKenna. We're below Leicester who finished above us last season, and above Southampton who finished below us. We're being competitive in games against clubs that have been at this level for a number of years in most cases.
So yeah, we probably are fancied to go down, we probably are one of the lesser 3 teams in the division, but I dare say we would be even worse off (and wouldn't have got here in the first place) were it not for McKenna's leadership. |  | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 15:18 - Dec 5 with 2536 views | AYACCA |
Life is a rollercoaster. Ups and downs. Enjoy the ride |  | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 16:02 - Dec 5 with 2399 views | jaykay |
we play good football against the better sides liverpool first half spurs aston villa brentford
but against the crap sides in this league west ham everton palace we poor to.
hopefully we will sort this out soon |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 16:59 - Dec 5 with 2304 views | mellowblue |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 16:02 - Dec 5 by jaykay |
we play good football against the better sides liverpool first half spurs aston villa brentford
but against the crap sides in this league west ham everton palace we poor to.
hopefully we will sort this out soon |
some one made the point that the better teams are more skilfull and tactically cute than us and the worse teams are more athletic, bigger and stronger and better organised than us so we are caught in the middle and largely unable to match anybody bar Soton Leicester and Spurs (in inept mode). I broadly agree. | | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 17:04 - Dec 5 with 2271 views | Swansea_Blue |
“what we thought was a very winnable game”. And therein lies the problem. No such thing for us in this league. To pick up points, we need to be bang on it and ideally the opposition have a bit of an off day. |  |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 17:23 - Dec 5 with 2215 views | Hullblue |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 14:49 - Dec 5 by _clive_baker_ |
I think it can be true that we're both not quite strong enough to stay up, but also that it's despite having McKenna rather than due to having him. He's clearly an excellent coach and a top manager, but he's not a magician. The Premier league is brutal, the step up in quality is ridiculous, and he can only work with what he's got. We might continue to struggle for points but we shouldn't as a fanbase knee jerk that to questioning McKenna. We're below Leicester who finished above us last season, and above Southampton who finished below us. We're being competitive in games against clubs that have been at this level for a number of years in most cases.
So yeah, we probably are fancied to go down, we probably are one of the lesser 3 teams in the division, but I dare say we would be even worse off (and wouldn't have got here in the first place) were it not for McKenna's leadership. |
Exactly this - he's squeezing more out of most these players than any previous manager ever has, and likely more than any other manager (in our reach) would be able to.
Our captain has been a Championship journeyman for most of his career, our number 9 was a promising but not brilliant RW for Hull last season, our number 10 was someone who'd barely played any senior football before he played for McK, etc etc. Even some of our more experienced players, like O'Shea and Ogbene, suffered a relegation last season.
We've added a bit of elite experience in Phillips and Johnson but both have been injured for a significant amount of time.
The fact that we still (on our best days) look capable of staying up is amazing - especially given the injuries we've had.
So when I see us do something I don't quite understand on the pitch, I don't think wooaah maybe McKenna's not up to the premier league, I think: this man has proven time and time again that he knows how to get the best out of players, and his knowledge and instructions are beyond my understanding.
I realise that this conclusion kind of negates the whole point of a football forum, but it's the only one that makes sense. |  |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 18:02 - Dec 5 with 2094 views | mrfixit426 |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 11:59 - Dec 5 by textbackup |
For me, put simply, I’d rather go down with KM as our boss, having us play as we do, over staying up by skin of teeth with Steve Bruce (for example)
I can handle it being a step too far, too much too soon etc.
Because we, KM, players will learn from the experience. Would be no shame in it, or tears shed.
We’ve given it a half decent go so far IMO
I would still like to see us bring in a few beasts to maybe compete against those around us better |
Fkn bravo. Best post you've written. I can totally get behind this. |  | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 18:44 - Dec 5 with 1987 views | backwaywhen |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 11:53 - Dec 5 by FrimleyBlue |
I feel torn between trusting his methods, afterall they haven't failed us, to also remembering he hasn't managed in the prem yet, so whilst some are easy to claim certain players aren't ready for it or capable of it.... what automatically makes KM prem level? Sure his style is and man management is brilliant, but there's things happening which makes you wonder if like the club, he's been promoted too soon himself.
The no cb back up on the bench, it hasn't hurt him yet, but it is incredibly risky
The subs, timings and predictability of them
The style doesn't really change no matter who we're playing, sometimes that's a positive, but sometimes you feel it needs something slightly different. I know the roles move around the game, the style doesn't really change.
Something that bugs me which probably shouldn't, is the management and player talk of it's a bump in the road, but plenty of games left. The thing is, there isn't that many games left. Sure there are technically, but purely based on staying up alone, this 1 win in ... games is killing us, as much as those around us are killing themselves.
I mentioned yesturday to Keno about Jan, we know we will get reinforcements, but if we were to fall 3/4 wins away from safety, that's incredibly tough to overcome when between Jan and May there will only be 19 games left to play. it sounds a lot, but 8 of those will be against the top 8 clubs.
So i'd like to see a bit more determination into seeing something different to try and win these specific games, whether that's chucking 3 uptop late on, or sticking a random defender for heigh uptop and getting balls into the box. Just something to see us desperately trying to get 3 points, rather than hoping the usual style will be ok then after just viewing it as a bump in the road with plenty of games left. Or as I mentioned the other day,sacrificing certain games to give you a fully fit one for the next.. [Post edited 5 Dec 2024 12:00]
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His method works , but we lack prem quality players in practice , vast majority of these prem players are imo far stronger , athletic and prem hardened for us to make a bigger impact .
Not impossible of course but very improbable until we get a few more os these type of players into our club ……..but we must keep the faith for now . | | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 19:19 - Dec 5 with 1903 views | ArnieM |
I feel McKenna needs to adapt/ tweek his approach atm. It isn’t working. We’re over run in midfield. Delap would potentially thrive in a two up front for a bit, but of course the worm is not for turning is it. For please Kieran play your strongest team at all
times. |  |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 22:12 - Dec 5 with 1685 views | FelixBlue4 |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 11:59 - Dec 5 by textbackup |
For me, put simply, I’d rather go down with KM as our boss, having us play as we do, over staying up by skin of teeth with Steve Bruce (for example)
I can handle it being a step too far, too much too soon etc.
Because we, KM, players will learn from the experience. Would be no shame in it, or tears shed.
We’ve given it a half decent go so far IMO
I would still like to see us bring in a few beasts to maybe compete against those around us better |
Whilst I would love to stay up playing KM football we have to understand that if we only play that way and go down the only value that has is if KM stays at Town. Learning the play with these new players in the hope it gives us an edge if we go down only works if the manager is going to be here. Most are resigned to the idea that if we go down KM will move on but that is a really bad way to spend the season and if that is the case we should be throwing everything at getting the points to keep us here and build next season. If we have to play a little ugly football to stay in here so be it, I don’t think it will be as easy as others think to get promoted again quickly. A new manager will have their own ideas which sets us back again. | | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 00:00 - Dec 6 with 1567 views | Vic |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 13:43 - Dec 5 by OldFart71 |
I think there is slowly becoming a point at which we need to start grinding out results. It would be wonderful to play expansive football, scoring goals and entertaining. If you take Palace for instance they are a team set up to get something out of a game and truthfully it's no good continually saying we should have got a draw or won when we didn't. we have to be realistic and admit we are not as good as 75% of the teams in the Premier League. That's no disrespect to the efforts made by management at PR. In truth not many can say they expected us to be in the Premier League now and that's both a blessing and a weight on the shoulders of KM and co as there was little time to replace loan players, players retiring and those that struggled in the Championship. Those that have come in are either struggling for consistency, injured or maybe not good enough. The stand out player probably being Delap. Unless we soon start picking up 3 points against a few sides there's a danger we get cut adrift. |
You E said it better than I could have done. Exactly how I feel. |  |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 07:30 - Dec 6 with 1417 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Problem is even we are better than wolves, we aren’t a match for Leicester, Palace, West Ham or Everton and can’t see anyone else finishing below us. |  |
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| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 07:51 - Dec 6 with 1381 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 14:44 - Dec 5 by RobTheMonk |
Wrong side of many small margins.
- Dogsh1t referee against Leicester. Penalty and potential of 2-0 with no sending off.
- Shot ourselves in the foot against Brentford.
- We did well against Fulham and arguably should have got a win. Same against Villa
So 12 points which could have been gained had we had a bit more experience at this level (in my opinion) and if the ref against Leicester actually did his job properly. |
I can't disagree with any of what you say, but fans of all the teams around us will also be counting all the extra points they should have had ot thrown away.
Points that have gone are gone, we have to look forward and grasp every opportunity.
As for the talk of a strong transfer window in January that is easier said that done if we look certain for relegation. | | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 07:56 - Dec 6 with 1366 views | Blue_In_Boston |
My take on the season so far us that we are falling between two stools. We play some great stuff at times against the footballing sides, but not quite good enough to secure 3 points.
Against the physical sides we struggle, physically we look smaller, slower - men against boys. We don't have that ability to grind out results, stifle better footballing teams like the Palaces or Everton can.
And no, it's not bedwetting to be concerned or a little frustrated at how this season is going. | | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 08:32 - Dec 6 with 1295 views | Bellevue_Blue |
We can definitely survive, if you compare this year's table to last year's, we are only a point or so off Forest/ Everton who managed to survive.
Tuesday's result was a gut punch, not just because of the result but because the attacking performance was lifeless.
We are defending well as emphasised by the fact that teams like Brentford, West Ham have conceded more than us. If we can find a recipe to create more, get more out of Clarke/ Burns we are right in it.
We will almost certainly need two really good Jan reinforcements at CAM/RW/ ST (based on what position OH plays) otherwise we are in real trouble. | | | |
| Bedwetting or being brutally honest? on 08:34 - Dec 6 with 1289 views | jasondozzell |
It's the Clough line again isn't it.
I hope anybody isn't stupid enough to write us off.
We will stay up.
Palace is just the equivalent of the Xmas/NY wobble from the last two seasons. |  | | |
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