| Transfer window predictions... 11:53 - Jan 2 with 8869 views | itfcjoe |
In
- Young GK (U21)
- RB/RCB in similar profile to Tuanzebe
- Right Winger to replace Ogbene
- Versatile attacker - another number 10, KM loves his options
- Striker
Out
- Slicker - Loan to free up a space
- H.Clarke - Loan as he's not quite ready for me and we should be well covered with above signings
- Al-Hamadi - Loan
- Ogbene to be deregistered if he is definitely out for the season
That would keep us within the squad limits.
Other question to answer is over Central Midfield, can we return Phillips with no financial penalty and replace with cheaper if all they are is a back up to Morsy and utilise that money elsewhere? |  |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 15:41 - Jan 2 with 1924 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:32 - Jan 2 by itfcjoe |
He literally is Sam Morsy's back up so I'm not sure how it is unbelievably harsh - we've heard McKenna and Taylor talk about how Cajuste and Taylor are the left sided CMs, and whilst not explicitly said it means that Morsy and Phillips are the right sided ones. |
Whilst Phillips and Morsy are effectively competing for that role. They are both similar in position but also very different in qualities.
Phillips has that eye for a pass which we began to see shine through ( the villa pass for example ) that's not morsy. The most impressive attacking ball I've seen from morsy is his chips over the top for Davis.
Morsy also sits very deep sitting just outside our box which in the flat 5 system worked by also didn't help us at times as he was too deep and Chelsea kept finding pockets of space. The space which imo is where Phillips roams around in more.
I think we will start to see more of Phillips as the season goes on as we need a midfield esp in the latest system who can get the ball sprayed with pace and accuracy with less of the morsy back turn and circle movement.
For town to stay up. It needs to utilise its midfield well and that will include rotating it. That doesn't make Phillips a back up it makes both players options. [Post edited 2 Jan 15:45]
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| Transfer window predictions... on 15:45 - Jan 2 with 1900 views | gsoly |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:41 - Jan 2 by FrimleyBlue |
Whilst Phillips and Morsy are effectively competing for that role. They are both similar in position but also very different in qualities.
Phillips has that eye for a pass which we began to see shine through ( the villa pass for example ) that's not morsy. The most impressive attacking ball I've seen from morsy is his chips over the top for Davis.
Morsy also sits very deep sitting just outside our box which in the flat 5 system worked by also didn't help us at times as he was too deep and Chelsea kept finding pockets of space. The space which imo is where Phillips roams around in more.
I think we will start to see more of Phillips as the season goes on as we need a midfield esp in the latest system who can get the ball sprayed with pace and accuracy with less of the morsy back turn and circle movement.
For town to stay up. It needs to utilise its midfield well and that will include rotating it. That doesn't make Phillips a back up it makes both players options. [Post edited 2 Jan 15:45]
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Not sure how you can use a pass from three months ago as evidence of Phillips' passing ability. You're clutching at straws if you think he's been a success. Cajuste miles ahead in terms of the impact they've made. If the option is there to upgrade KP this window while saving a shedload of cash you 100% take it. |  | | |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:47 - Jan 2 with 1897 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:32 - Jan 2 by itfcjoe |
He literally is Sam Morsy's back up so I'm not sure how it is unbelievably harsh - we've heard McKenna and Taylor talk about how Cajuste and Taylor are the left sided CMs, and whilst not explicitly said it means that Morsy and Phillips are the right sided ones. |
No it is a bit harsh. Pre the red card and injury he was ahead of Cajuste and playing with Morsy. In any case with his pedigree he's not back up he is very much competition. A fully in the groove Phillips and settled in our system is a better player than Morsy (even if that makes a bit of sick come up on my mouth). Right now, everything Morsy brings character wise and just having played the role for years under McKenna has him in the slot.
Having Phillips there is huge motivation for Morsy. Though if it's only that then 100k a week yes is a lot. But it's not. But you are wrong to say he literally is back up because Phillips will still come on 90% if the games he doesn't start. You can't have a drop off for that. He offers top quality to come on even if he doesn't start. In sure he back himself to start more matches 2nd half of season. |  |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 15:54 - Jan 2 with 1851 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:45 - Jan 2 by gsoly |
Not sure how you can use a pass from three months ago as evidence of Phillips' passing ability. You're clutching at straws if you think he's been a success. Cajuste miles ahead in terms of the impact they've made. If the option is there to upgrade KP this window while saving a shedload of cash you 100% take it. |
Oh sorry didn't realise I had to name them all.
He drilled one across the pitch v Chelsea.
He pinged it around for fun against Leicester
Etc etc.
The season isn't over yet to call his loan a success, its also to early to call it a failure. But he's part of the squad that has played his part on having us just 1 point off safety so if you're happy with how we sit in the league then you have to accept those who have played their part in it.
Cajuste has had a big impact but two different players at a different path in their football careers.
If phillips was coming in to be the motm every week he wouldn't have joined town on loan. He came with baggage and we are helping him through that.
Expensive. Probably But thats the prem. We don't know the financials behind it either. | |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 15:57 - Jan 2 with 1843 views | itfcjoe |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:47 - Jan 2 by Nutkins_Return |
No it is a bit harsh. Pre the red card and injury he was ahead of Cajuste and playing with Morsy. In any case with his pedigree he's not back up he is very much competition. A fully in the groove Phillips and settled in our system is a better player than Morsy (even if that makes a bit of sick come up on my mouth). Right now, everything Morsy brings character wise and just having played the role for years under McKenna has him in the slot.
Having Phillips there is huge motivation for Morsy. Though if it's only that then 100k a week yes is a lot. But it's not. But you are wrong to say he literally is back up because Phillips will still come on 90% if the games he doesn't start. You can't have a drop off for that. He offers top quality to come on even if he doesn't start. In sure he back himself to start more matches 2nd half of season. |
I hope he does start more matches as it will mean he is playing well - but realisitically we didn't sign such an expensive high profile player to help close out a few games, we signed him to be a midfield lynchpin and it's disappointing that he hasn't been able to be so far.
In a position where we are limited by resource with PSR, there would be far better ways to spend that money, that we may or may bot depending on the terms of the deal be able to utilise.
Recently he has been an unused sub in tight games vs Palace, Bournemouth and Wolves and then a decent run out in what had become a dead rubber vs Newcastle before the 15 minutes of the bench vs Chelsea. I thought he did really well against Arsenal but we need more from him | |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 15:57 - Jan 2 with 1841 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Transfer window predictions... on 12:24 - Jan 2 by Clutch |
Sending KP back would be insanity. |
Agreed. Philips brings experience and quality that we need, and is likely to add much off field that we don't see directly. Philips/Morsy/Cajuste as a solid, rotating (both as subs and between games) mid-field is perfect right now. Taylor offers cover / an alternative option when needed.
Mass (as much as I hate to say it) should be loaned out. | | | |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:59 - Jan 2 with 1830 views | NthQldITFC |
| Transfer window predictions... on 12:06 - Jan 2 by JakeITFC |
I don't think the Phillips deal is that expensive in isolation - £100k a week for 6 months is £2.6m. We'll spend much more than that on any other player we bring in this month. |
I've no idea if you're right on the numbers, but I'd agree that we need top level cover in that role anyway. So whether it's cover for Morsy getting suspended for a game or two, getting injured or just sharing the load in games a little, it's an area I'm happy to be spending big money on covering and Phillips seems like he's happy here. No need to change it for a little more FFP headroom given Phillips has settled in and knows the role and has the pedigree. |  |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 16:13 - Jan 2 with 1758 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:59 - Jan 2 by NthQldITFC |
I've no idea if you're right on the numbers, but I'd agree that we need top level cover in that role anyway. So whether it's cover for Morsy getting suspended for a game or two, getting injured or just sharing the load in games a little, it's an area I'm happy to be spending big money on covering and Phillips seems like he's happy here. No need to change it for a little more FFP headroom given Phillips has settled in and knows the role and has the pedigree. |
If we were going into the Jan window and the option was there to loan kalvin phillips you'd say absolutely. The fact we already have him is a big positive. | |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 16:17 - Jan 2 with 1748 views | Skip_Intro |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:13 - Jan 2 by FrimleyBlue |
If we were going into the Jan window and the option was there to loan kalvin phillips you'd say absolutely. The fact we already have him is a big positive. |
I'm not so sure that we'd be so desperate to loan him if he'd had half a season at a club in the bottom three like he has had so far...I am pretty sure that the club hoped for more when we signed him than we have seen from him so far |  | | |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:21 - Jan 2 with 1717 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:17 - Jan 2 by Skip_Intro |
I'm not so sure that we'd be so desperate to loan him if he'd had half a season at a club in the bottom three like he has had so far...I am pretty sure that the club hoped for more when we signed him than we have seen from him so far |
Think we've had what we expected tbh. An unfit midfielder battling mental and physical problems needs time to get back to his best. Feel the love of football again and reap the rewards if you help him achieve that.
With the homework we do on players the club would have been stupid for thinking they'd be getting anything different after his loan spell last season. | |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 16:25 - Jan 2 with 1697 views | SheffordBlue |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:57 - Jan 2 by itfcjoe |
I hope he does start more matches as it will mean he is playing well - but realisitically we didn't sign such an expensive high profile player to help close out a few games, we signed him to be a midfield lynchpin and it's disappointing that he hasn't been able to be so far.
In a position where we are limited by resource with PSR, there would be far better ways to spend that money, that we may or may bot depending on the terms of the deal be able to utilise.
Recently he has been an unused sub in tight games vs Palace, Bournemouth and Wolves and then a decent run out in what had become a dead rubber vs Newcastle before the 15 minutes of the bench vs Chelsea. I thought he did really well against Arsenal but we need more from him |
I do think there are some non-financial aspects to the KP loan that are worth considering.
We've invested time and effort in getting him up to speed in our system which we'd have to do with someone else coming in. He now looks like a good fit for what we want and there's no guarantee that another CM signing would make the switch straight away. He also seems a really good cultural fit and no doubt Morsy/Cajuste/Taylor/Luongo are also learning from him during training. It's difficult to put a financial figure on that.
Financially it might make sense but there's quite a bit of risk involved with any new signing working out and that risk isn't there with Phillips staying. | |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 16:26 - Jan 2 with 1689 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:57 - Jan 2 by itfcjoe |
I hope he does start more matches as it will mean he is playing well - but realisitically we didn't sign such an expensive high profile player to help close out a few games, we signed him to be a midfield lynchpin and it's disappointing that he hasn't been able to be so far.
In a position where we are limited by resource with PSR, there would be far better ways to spend that money, that we may or may bot depending on the terms of the deal be able to utilise.
Recently he has been an unused sub in tight games vs Palace, Bournemouth and Wolves and then a decent run out in what had become a dead rubber vs Newcastle before the 15 minutes of the bench vs Chelsea. I thought he did really well against Arsenal but we need more from him |
I agree we signed him up to be a regular and he still may be. But the key thing is as a unit it is functioning well. I would only be in favour of sending him back if were spending the money on an upgrade and I don't think it's out there.
Think we have to give Morsy credit here. There was a question mark whether he could play this level and he has done brilliantly. [Post edited 2 Jan 21:54]
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| Transfer window predictions... on 16:30 - Jan 2 with 1657 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:26 - Jan 2 by Nutkins_Return |
I agree we signed him up to be a regular and he still may be. But the key thing is as a unit it is functioning well. I would only be in favour of sending him back if were spending the money on an upgrade and I don't think it's out there.
Think we have to give Morsy credit here. There was a question mark whether he could play this level and he has done brilliantly. [Post edited 2 Jan 21:54]
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I'm intrigued why everyone assumes we signed him up to be a straight forward regular whilst we also signed cajuste with an obligation to buy.. are we now saying that you all expected the skipper to be dropped immediately? After giving out a new contract. I don't agree with that. I agree that phillips would play a part and he's done that even close enough to say he was a regular anyway as he had started 7 out of 9 games before the red card. Since then suspension and injury.
I think the aim was to have the options available in midfield to compete and we've done that really well with the 3 of them. [Post edited 2 Jan 16:37]
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| Transfer window predictions... on 16:37 - Jan 2 with 1600 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:30 - Jan 2 by FrimleyBlue |
I'm intrigued why everyone assumes we signed him up to be a straight forward regular whilst we also signed cajuste with an obligation to buy.. are we now saying that you all expected the skipper to be dropped immediately? After giving out a new contract. I don't agree with that. I agree that phillips would play a part and he's done that even close enough to say he was a regular anyway as he had started 7 out of 9 games before the red card. Since then suspension and injury.
I think the aim was to have the options available in midfield to compete and we've done that really well with the 3 of them. [Post edited 2 Jan 16:37]
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I certainly thought Phillips/Cajuste would eventually establish themselves as the starting two. You are talking about two players with serious pedigree that have played at the highest levels. Morsy had never kicked a ball in the PL. | | | |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:39 - Jan 2 with 1583 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
A huge element of the decision on KP rides on how much of his salary ITFC are covering.
What's he worth to us?
We know Town have by far the lowest salary bill in the PL. Some estimates are £33M p.a., but that seems to be based on the annual gross pay to each player and does not take into account if the club is paying all or just a %. My guess would be that we "only" pay around 25% - 33% of KP's £150k per week, based on the following reasoning:
1) He was just dead wood at City, they wouldn't have registered him, and are contracted to pay him £150k per week - so there was a deal to be done
2) If he could get significant minutes at a PL club, maybe KP would rediscover some of his old form, and either play his way back into contention at City, or generate interest form other clubs to buy out his contract and get him off City's wage bill for good
3) After his catastrophic season loan at West Ham, City's options looked bleak - who else was going to give him minutes in the PL?
4) City wouldn't want to get the club he is loaned to to overpay and send him back again mid season, because that puts them back to square 1 with his wage on their books until it expires.
All those add up to it being very much in City's interest to loan him for a fraction of his actual wages. So my guess is we have got a very good deal, and are paying him no more than we pay to other midfielders (Morsy/Cajuste). |  |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 16:40 - Jan 2 with 1573 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:37 - Jan 2 by tractorboy1978 |
I certainly thought Phillips/Cajuste would eventually establish themselves as the starting two. You are talking about two players with serious pedigree that have played at the highest levels. Morsy had never kicked a ball in the PL. |
I think that's what we will see more of as the season progresses. I think had the Chelsea game not been so close to the arsenal one we would have seen phillips start. Both cajuste and phillips have had their injury issues. Cajuste is just more about getting him to last longer which we seem to be getting there with. | |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 16:42 - Jan 2 with 1556 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:39 - Jan 2 by LegendofthePhoenix |
A huge element of the decision on KP rides on how much of his salary ITFC are covering.
What's he worth to us?
We know Town have by far the lowest salary bill in the PL. Some estimates are £33M p.a., but that seems to be based on the annual gross pay to each player and does not take into account if the club is paying all or just a %. My guess would be that we "only" pay around 25% - 33% of KP's £150k per week, based on the following reasoning:
1) He was just dead wood at City, they wouldn't have registered him, and are contracted to pay him £150k per week - so there was a deal to be done
2) If he could get significant minutes at a PL club, maybe KP would rediscover some of his old form, and either play his way back into contention at City, or generate interest form other clubs to buy out his contract and get him off City's wage bill for good
3) After his catastrophic season loan at West Ham, City's options looked bleak - who else was going to give him minutes in the PL?
4) City wouldn't want to get the club he is loaned to to overpay and send him back again mid season, because that puts them back to square 1 with his wage on their books until it expires.
All those add up to it being very much in City's interest to loan him for a fraction of his actual wages. So my guess is we have got a very good deal, and are paying him no more than we pay to other midfielders (Morsy/Cajuste). |
I think it is pretty common knowledge the loan fee (covering his wages) is £4m-£5m. | | | |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:45 - Jan 2 with 1533 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:42 - Jan 2 by tractorboy1978 |
I think it is pretty common knowledge the loan fee (covering his wages) is £4m-£5m. |
I do love how it's common knowledge yet no one knows if city have a buyback or matching clause or what the fee is for delap. | |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 16:53 - Jan 2 with 1492 views | Len_Brennan |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:45 - Jan 2 by gsoly |
Not sure how you can use a pass from three months ago as evidence of Phillips' passing ability. You're clutching at straws if you think he's been a success. Cajuste miles ahead in terms of the impact they've made. If the option is there to upgrade KP this window while saving a shedload of cash you 100% take it. |
"If the option is there to upgrade KP ..."
I just don't see who that could possibly be, especially as he is back to a decent level of fitness - he played the full 90+ against Arsenal & did well against some serious talent - and knows his teammates & the way we play now. | | | |
| Transfer window predictions... on 17:00 - Jan 2 with 1449 views | mutters |
| Transfer window predictions... on 13:03 - Jan 2 by FrimleyBlue |
lol, why would it be an expensive failure? No chance the club would have thought Phillips was gonna walk in and just breeze through the season, he's had mental and physical issues hence the reason why he's on loan here in the first place.
At the moment, the money paid on J Clarke and Muric look more suspect than the loan of Phillips. |
Also with KP, there is a chance that he settles back to some of his old form and then wants to come here full-time next season (depending on where we finish). You can see how much the players really like each other, they are always smiling and messing around after the game and they are always there to congratulate each other. Team spirit is a massive thing, especially when you've been unhappy as a player for a while, and due to the manager (and the right recruitment), they've got this right. I could see him wanting to continue to be around this group of players. |  |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 17:21 - Jan 2 with 1367 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Transfer window predictions... on 16:45 - Jan 2 by FrimleyBlue |
I do love how it's common knowledge yet no one knows if city have a buyback or matching clause or what the fee is for delap. |
Completely agree.
I also don't know why people assume we can even send him back. If, as has been widely suggested elsewhere, City can't recall him before the end of the season long loan, then why would we be able to terminate before the end of the season.
I also fail to understand the negativity towards Philips - he's really beginning to contribute now, and has more to offer. | | | |
| Transfer window predictions... on 17:39 - Jan 2 with 1287 views | ZapatasMoustache |
| Transfer window predictions... on 15:45 - Jan 2 by gsoly |
Not sure how you can use a pass from three months ago as evidence of Phillips' passing ability. You're clutching at straws if you think he's been a success. Cajuste miles ahead in terms of the impact they've made. If the option is there to upgrade KP this window while saving a shedload of cash you 100% take it. |
He's been fine, which in my view is a success. There's no worry in my mind about seeing his name on the team sheet and he's had some really good games (and no real stinkers - the harsh red was hardly his fault for two reasons). |  | | |
| Transfer window predictions... on 18:15 - Jan 2 with 1209 views | MK1 |
Think we will concentrate on the forward positions first. A CF and a RW are probably of priority. Having said that, I am sure KM and MA are looking at all options if players are available. |  |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 20:05 - Jan 2 with 1088 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
I think we would regret losing someone of KPs quality. |  |
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| Transfer window predictions... on 20:29 - Jan 2 with 1047 views | the_toff |
Agree with that, although can’t see us doing anything with Phillips. He’s clearly expensive but he’s potentially going to add value in the next 19 games, both his ability to come into the midfield like he did at Arsenal and also his experience at premier league level. For me he’s in the bracket of doubtful we’ll see him stay beyond the summer regardless of which league we’re in, but happy for him to stick around and try to dislodge Morsy from the side. | | | |
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