| Is it really a surprise where we are? 20:59 - Feb 22 with 6923 views | ghostofescobar |
The reality is we got promoted too early. The plan was probably 2 or 3 years in the championship. We will go down, but I am hopeful for next season. |  |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 23:04 - Feb 22 with 1395 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 22:20 - Feb 22 by ITFCSG |
You'd never know. So what were the players Fulham, Bournemouth, Forest etc. signed when they went up? If we have gotten them in the summer there was no guarantee of a relegation scrap.
Would Moder rather remain in the PL or move to the Eredivisie to play in a sh*t league bar the top 3-4 clubs just for a few European games a season? I doubt it.
A mixture of experience would have improved the situation. Even if they are an Aluko/Keogh type signing. All our new signings have little or no Prem experience and it is showing. Too weak, too naive. |
I don't necessarily disagree broadly, but you're saying maybe we could have persuaded champions league playing players to have come to us, and maybe not have to have a relegation scrap, but in this future dream scenario maybe the experience we buy is too slow and unable to play the football we wanted, for one example amongst many. I just don't see that anything is more 'right' with any of these shoulda woulda coulda scenarios other than 'the players would have been better'.
Which I'm not disagreeing with btw, the players bought potentially could have been better. But that's true whatever tactic we followed to get them in. [Post edited 22 Feb 23:08]
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 23:39 - Feb 22 with 1354 views | SaffronWaldenBlues |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 22:53 - Feb 22 by PrideOfTheEast |
There’s an argument that it was possibly last season or many, many years in terms of getting promoted. Not sure people appreciate the gap opening up between the divisions and therefore within the championship too.
As it is, can’t see how we won’t be top 3 next season in that division and with the mess Leicester and Southampton are in, or will be in, I would expect us to be favourites for the title. [Post edited 22 Feb 23:14]
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People are wrong to write off West Brom, Sunderland, Watford, Middlesbrough and so on. The assumption we will walk back up is wrong, I don’t believe Ipswich has ever bounced back after relegation, especially when we’re going to see upheaval in the summer too, we’re going to have to make much better decisions in recruitment this summer.
I think I’m in the majority that hoped we’d stay up as Ipswich simply never gets many cracks at the top flight, I think the sad part is we’re so woefully off the standard it’s not even competitive and that’s after paying over the odds for a bucket load of players. I am not sure that we’re destined to get another crack at it, it was hard enough last season and we were helped by Leeds failing to get results in crucial games.
It’s going to be a slog to get back up, nothing is guaranteed. |  |
| An East Anglian Town overtaken by Londoners |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 00:01 - Feb 23 with 1326 views | vinceg |
So if, as it seems, we go down, we'll have a hell of Championship squad. The loan boys will disappear, hopefully Muric and inevitably Delap, but let's remember how good a Championship striker George is.. Hutch is 50/50 as to whether he stays in my opinion, he's starting to look comfortable at this level. Doubt anybody will come in for Davis, he's been great in League 1 and the Championship when his job has mostly been attacking, but proved again today what a dozy defender he is leaving Johnson unattend for the first two goals (although of course if Tuanzebe had been at right back, Son would have been less likely to get his crosses in in the first place). If he goes Townsend is fine with me. We get Humphreys back for midfield creativity, a hard tackling midfielder to replace Luongo and Morsy, and a back -up striker and we're all set to storm it next seasion! COYB |  | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 00:05 - Feb 23 with 1322 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 21:15 - Feb 22 by Swailsey |
This is true. I just think it’s a bit of a wasted opportunity. The near £75 million we spent on Clarke, Ogbene, Greaves and Jayden could have brought in a battle hardened midfielder.
I’m torn between now and future planning - but it’s the first time we’ve been here in 20 years and I wanted to stay. |
Exactly what u have been saying for months. Transfers have looked at potential, future sales value etc, not whether they are good enough to play on Saturday in the Premier League.
Luton proved more competitive in the PL last season, poorer players than us but battle hardened and big. We are lightweight and flimsy. |  | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 01:37 - Feb 23 with 1293 views | warky_1970 |
Spot on
We have been one of the Premier Leagues biggest pretenders in history. One day we will hopefully bounce back better prepared.
Such a shame. But we will hopefully learn from this. |  | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 06:57 - Feb 23 with 1203 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 23:39 - Feb 22 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
People are wrong to write off West Brom, Sunderland, Watford, Middlesbrough and so on. The assumption we will walk back up is wrong, I don’t believe Ipswich has ever bounced back after relegation, especially when we’re going to see upheaval in the summer too, we’re going to have to make much better decisions in recruitment this summer.
I think I’m in the majority that hoped we’d stay up as Ipswich simply never gets many cracks at the top flight, I think the sad part is we’re so woefully off the standard it’s not even competitive and that’s after paying over the odds for a bucket load of players. I am not sure that we’re destined to get another crack at it, it was hard enough last season and we were helped by Leeds failing to get results in crucial games.
It’s going to be a slog to get back up, nothing is guaranteed. |
We shall see - game has moved on massively in the last few years. | | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 07:36 - Feb 23 with 1180 views | JackNorthStand |
This getting promoted too early is a complete myth.
Leicester and Southampton are below us. Established premier league teams in recent years. Going up is a monumental challenge. 2,3,4 or 5 more years in the championship wouldn’t have readied us for this. | | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 07:51 - Feb 23 with 1169 views | ITFCBlues |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 21:19 - Feb 22 by Swailsey |
True. I don’t pretend to know the ins and outs of transfer dealings and I know it isn’t football manager. But going into January I don’t think many of us thought wingers and right-sided defence were our priorities.
Next year will be fun. |
Well, they clearly were. We don't score or create enough chances so getting better attacking players was always a target and Axel has missed a huge chunk of games.
You could argue and I'd probably agree that Godfrey isn't really an upgrade on Clarke in all honesty. |  |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 07:56 - Feb 23 with 1160 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 21:30 - Feb 22 by itfc1108 |
That £75 million could have got us a central midfield pairing of Mctominay and say Harvey Elliott from Liverpool or Sander Berge from Burnley maybe.
Then build from that base. |
This sums it up though, "we could have recruited better" and then you list 3 players we wouldn't have a hope in hell of signing. | | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 07:57 - Feb 23 with 1159 views | ITFCBlues |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 22:15 - Feb 22 by Swailsey |
Sorry, I thought I made it clear above. Buy players who are recognised at this level, rather than the obvious approach which has been to buy younger players for potential. Just one or two. It would have made a big difference I feel. |
How much do these recognised players cost? 40m each?
Sign a couple of them and Keep Jackson and Harness in the PL? The step up is massive and we had a squad of L1 players still. This season was always going to be very difficult and so it's proved!
We all know a couple of 40m PL experienced players would've helped, but it'd be at the expense of improving other areas of the squad and in all honesty, probably wouldn't have made much difference overall. | |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 08:01 - Feb 23 with 1142 views | ITFCBlues |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 23:39 - Feb 22 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
People are wrong to write off West Brom, Sunderland, Watford, Middlesbrough and so on. The assumption we will walk back up is wrong, I don’t believe Ipswich has ever bounced back after relegation, especially when we’re going to see upheaval in the summer too, we’re going to have to make much better decisions in recruitment this summer.
I think I’m in the majority that hoped we’d stay up as Ipswich simply never gets many cracks at the top flight, I think the sad part is we’re so woefully off the standard it’s not even competitive and that’s after paying over the odds for a bucket load of players. I am not sure that we’re destined to get another crack at it, it was hard enough last season and we were helped by Leeds failing to get results in crucial games.
It’s going to be a slog to get back up, nothing is guaranteed. |
Nothing is guaranteed, but as the league tables the last few years show, the relegated sides have a huge advantage. Look at this seasons top 3 who are pulling away now.
Not to mention, the "poor recruitment" is of a lot of players who have absolutely thrived in the championship. Yes they've not all stepped up as we'd have liked, but the squad is miles stronger than the one that got promotion and that's a fact. | |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 08:19 - Feb 23 with 1123 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 00:05 - Feb 23 by Blue_In_Boston |
Exactly what u have been saying for months. Transfers have looked at potential, future sales value etc, not whether they are good enough to play on Saturday in the Premier League.
Luton proved more competitive in the PL last season, poorer players than us but battle hardened and big. We are lightweight and flimsy. |
So Luton signing players from, checks Wikipedia, Rotherham, Birmingham, Barnsley, Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Stoke, Reading and a couple of free agent punts was a better strategy? No, it just so happened that the route one system they played to get up, and a couple of those dodgy punts, *worked* marginally better than ours.
We signed players from Villa Napoli Man city Burnley etc etc. Did anyone really predict that Barkley would fly again, that could have been Philips this season.
The only point that consistently holds in all of this debate is that with hindsight, or with predictions and guesswork that haven't actually happened, the chosen scenario has better results. It's not actually a better choice or system it's made up, or based on similar or worse punts than ours.
I don't think we got anything specifically 'wrong', just that I'd have liked some of our buys to have worked out better, but that doesn't sound in the know or clever enough for having a pop. | | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 08:29 - Feb 23 with 1106 views | NthQldITFC |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 21:12 - Feb 22 by Zx1988 |
I think there might be a silver lining in the recruitment process.
Compared to had we bought a batch of PL-ready/experienced players, I would imagine that there will be far fewer players demanding a transfer in the event of relegation.
Similarly, with the hiring process having focused on (hopefully) younger players with high development ceilings, at least some of the current squad should develop well over the course of another Championship campaign.
If we go down, and come back up, we may have a stronger squad than we currently have, and another decent chunk of money with which to strengthen further. |
I'm far from given up on our survival chances - two weeks can turn it right around - but if it does happen, I think you're bang on about the great work which has been done building a squad with big development potential, and that looks fantastic for the future.
It's been said a thousand times, but this season would have been hard enough if we were:
1. A previously established Prem club - see Leicester and Saints, below us
2. A yo-yo club
3. An established top end Championship club
4. A middling or lower Championship club on a bit of a run up
...but we were none of those, we were right down at...
5. A League One club on a massive rebuild.
That's an extraordinary gap to have made up and bodes very well indeed for the future. |  |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 09:20 - Feb 23 with 1047 views | Churchman |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 08:19 - Feb 23 by Axeldalai_lama |
So Luton signing players from, checks Wikipedia, Rotherham, Birmingham, Barnsley, Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Stoke, Reading and a couple of free agent punts was a better strategy? No, it just so happened that the route one system they played to get up, and a couple of those dodgy punts, *worked* marginally better than ours.
We signed players from Villa Napoli Man city Burnley etc etc. Did anyone really predict that Barkley would fly again, that could have been Philips this season.
The only point that consistently holds in all of this debate is that with hindsight, or with predictions and guesswork that haven't actually happened, the chosen scenario has better results. It's not actually a better choice or system it's made up, or based on similar or worse punts than ours.
I don't think we got anything specifically 'wrong', just that I'd have liked some of our buys to have worked out better, but that doesn't sound in the know or clever enough for having a pop. |
You are right. It was Luton’s unwatchable Wimbledon/Watford hoofball that got them points, relegated and a possible double relegation. I’m sure there are plenty on here who’d love to have seen McCarthyball back as opposed to trying to play properly. I am not one of them and it’d have failed as it did for Luton.
We are all blessed with hindsight and a little nostalgia for the last two years. Would last year’s team done better? No, it’d have done worse. A lot worse, not helped by Hirst being out most of it and Chaplin, Burns who were adapting, both getting injured. The gap is yawning. I’ve seen it. Even players who know the game at this level like Phillips and Tuanzebe look under pressure if that first touch isn’t spot on. Any mistake, like yesterday = instant punishment.
Tactically, fitness, everything is light years better. Saints and Leicester who started the summer with half a PL side: smashed. Downes who most wanted here - doing nothing. Their keeper who cost double our two combined getting backache picking the ball out. £40m Archie Gray torn a new one first half yesterday by Delap and that’s one of last seasons best players and best prospects. The Leicester diver Dewsbury-Hall nowhere near the team. That’s the gap.
Yes the club has brought in potential and some experienced loans. And yes some signings have not worked out. They never do. Even Alex Ferguson never got it right every time. And some of those signed might well come good. Has the club and manager got some things wrong? Of course. People who do zippo are the only ones who don’t make mistakes.
Of the players, it’s the loanees that in many ways have struggled the most. Particularly in midfield. It’s alright being talented, playing great passes and ghosting through players, but if you spend much of the game with it passing you by, can’t last 90 mins and are injury prone or are dealing with ‘issues’ for me that’s not enough. That’s squad player territory.
As for buying a £70m player or two for £70m, who? That’s about what the two Newcastle lads, who were top drawer, cost. Chances of them coming here on a salary we can afford? Or anyone like them? Zero. It’s not the same as shopping at Fortnums instead of Lidl.
So we did sign some experience and potential. Given I don’t think that all last years team were even close to stepping up as a group or beyond a few of them individually, it was do a Norwich, trouser the cash knowing it was over in August or give it a go.
They chose the latter and I’m glad. |  | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 10:21 - Feb 23 with 1004 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 09:20 - Feb 23 by Churchman |
You are right. It was Luton’s unwatchable Wimbledon/Watford hoofball that got them points, relegated and a possible double relegation. I’m sure there are plenty on here who’d love to have seen McCarthyball back as opposed to trying to play properly. I am not one of them and it’d have failed as it did for Luton.
We are all blessed with hindsight and a little nostalgia for the last two years. Would last year’s team done better? No, it’d have done worse. A lot worse, not helped by Hirst being out most of it and Chaplin, Burns who were adapting, both getting injured. The gap is yawning. I’ve seen it. Even players who know the game at this level like Phillips and Tuanzebe look under pressure if that first touch isn’t spot on. Any mistake, like yesterday = instant punishment.
Tactically, fitness, everything is light years better. Saints and Leicester who started the summer with half a PL side: smashed. Downes who most wanted here - doing nothing. Their keeper who cost double our two combined getting backache picking the ball out. £40m Archie Gray torn a new one first half yesterday by Delap and that’s one of last seasons best players and best prospects. The Leicester diver Dewsbury-Hall nowhere near the team. That’s the gap.
Yes the club has brought in potential and some experienced loans. And yes some signings have not worked out. They never do. Even Alex Ferguson never got it right every time. And some of those signed might well come good. Has the club and manager got some things wrong? Of course. People who do zippo are the only ones who don’t make mistakes.
Of the players, it’s the loanees that in many ways have struggled the most. Particularly in midfield. It’s alright being talented, playing great passes and ghosting through players, but if you spend much of the game with it passing you by, can’t last 90 mins and are injury prone or are dealing with ‘issues’ for me that’s not enough. That’s squad player territory.
As for buying a £70m player or two for £70m, who? That’s about what the two Newcastle lads, who were top drawer, cost. Chances of them coming here on a salary we can afford? Or anyone like them? Zero. It’s not the same as shopping at Fortnums instead of Lidl.
So we did sign some experience and potential. Given I don’t think that all last years team were even close to stepping up as a group or beyond a few of them individually, it was do a Norwich, trouser the cash knowing it was over in August or give it a go.
They chose the latter and I’m glad. |
Exactly, the point about the ready made or battle ready premier league player in particular I find the most ridiculous. If they're that good they wouldn't come, full stop, then we'd be down the list to 'less good experienced prem battlers' for still big money. Can you imagine the uproar on here if a 30 something on 100k+ a week, costing at least £20million, or even two of them had come in and not been great? It would have royally kicked off. As I keep saying, these 'strategies' only work in peoples heads because they're calling for champions league players and even then these players work wonders and don't get injured or fail. | | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 11:41 - Feb 23 with 960 views | Hipsterectomy |
We have just applied (had accepted?) planning permission for training ground improvements. We don’t have Cat 1 academy. We don’t seem to have a great scouting network. We have sht the bed a little this season, seemingly without Tony Bloom’s help, also not going for any European players or further afield.
We were hurriedly trying to get the stadium ready to even just have more tv cameras in the ground all summer. It’s definitely no surprise we’re here, but the worst part is the Norwich, Leeds, Sheff Utd, Watford and fans of other recent Prem teams were right. There is very little hope in staying up and it’s a depressing slog to get through a season. |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 11:46 - Feb 23 with 956 views | J2BLUE |
There's no such thing as getting promoted too early. It's something fans say but it's just stupid.
The gulf is too big to build a team in the Championship, especially without parachute payments. Coming up and going straight back down, if we do, is far better for us in terms of the future than 2-3 seasons in the Championship making minor upgrades at best while probably losing Davis and 2-3 others.
If we can keep most of this squad and learn from this season we can come back up hopefully and recruit some experience to go with the exciting younger players. |  |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:14 - Feb 23 with 872 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 08:19 - Feb 23 by Axeldalai_lama |
So Luton signing players from, checks Wikipedia, Rotherham, Birmingham, Barnsley, Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Stoke, Reading and a couple of free agent punts was a better strategy? No, it just so happened that the route one system they played to get up, and a couple of those dodgy punts, *worked* marginally better than ours.
We signed players from Villa Napoli Man city Burnley etc etc. Did anyone really predict that Barkley would fly again, that could have been Philips this season.
The only point that consistently holds in all of this debate is that with hindsight, or with predictions and guesswork that haven't actually happened, the chosen scenario has better results. It's not actually a better choice or system it's made up, or based on similar or worse punts than ours.
I don't think we got anything specifically 'wrong', just that I'd have liked some of our buys to have worked out better, but that doesn't sound in the know or clever enough for having a pop. |
I am not endorsing the way Luton play, just pointing out that they remained competitive and in the fight until the end. | | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:19 - Feb 23 with 866 views | PhilTWTD |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 11:46 - Feb 23 by J2BLUE |
There's no such thing as getting promoted too early. It's something fans say but it's just stupid.
The gulf is too big to build a team in the Championship, especially without parachute payments. Coming up and going straight back down, if we do, is far better for us in terms of the future than 2-3 seasons in the Championship making minor upgrades at best while probably losing Davis and 2-3 others.
If we can keep most of this squad and learn from this season we can come back up hopefully and recruit some experience to go with the exciting younger players. |
It's essentially what Kieran McKenna has said all season. That the difference is that you build a squad more capable of competing at a higher level if you spend a number of years towards the top of the Championship, or in the case of Southampton and Leicester being up and down. We've come up from League One and then to the Premier League in successive seasons with a large part of the squad still that which was assembled in League One.
It's a big leap from the Championship to the Premier League, a much bigger one from League One to the Premier League. |  | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:39 - Feb 23 with 822 views | RadioOrwell |
Please stop this 'promoted too early' crp.
You actually wanted another season in the Championship ?
Why ? For what purpose ?
We might not have been promoted.
Do you think we would be better off in that scenario that we are right now ?
We have a much much much better squad. Arguing we should have a worse squad in a lower division is so bonkers it's mind boggling. |  | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:45 - Feb 23 with 806 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 21:04 - Feb 22 by Swailsey |
No it isn’t. But I do wish we had recruited better. I think that’s what feels like a miss for me. We have brought in replacements who are currently barely any better than what we had. Maybe McKenna thought he could weave his magic but I think our approach is failing in terms of keeping us up. I would much prefer to have seen Chaplin, Broadhead, Taylor and Burgess given more game time.
That’s my regret. I have loved the last 3 years and it’s made up for having a season ticket for 15 odd years of dross, but I am a little deflated. |
We needed to build a squad. Delap worked. Ogbene is an improvement I am sure, too. In fact most are improvements on what would have been squad players for us. However, we haven't built the partnerships we managed to build previously. That's not easy unless you buy 2 players that are already working together. Muric was a poor buy by all accounts and we have been hit badly with injuries.
It will be interesting to see what changes happen over the summer. I am confident we will be stronger than we were last season and we did pretty well then. |  |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:47 - Feb 23 with 802 views | J2BLUE |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:19 - Feb 23 by PhilTWTD |
It's essentially what Kieran McKenna has said all season. That the difference is that you build a squad more capable of competing at a higher level if you spend a number of years towards the top of the Championship, or in the case of Southampton and Leicester being up and down. We've come up from League One and then to the Premier League in successive seasons with a large part of the squad still that which was assembled in League One.
It's a big leap from the Championship to the Premier League, a much bigger one from League One to the Premier League. |
Southampton and Leicester are no better off than we are though. As you say the leap is big. I don't see how being in the Championship is going to help without parachute payments. | |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:55 - Feb 23 with 781 views | PhilTWTD |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:47 - Feb 23 by J2BLUE |
Southampton and Leicester are no better off than we are though. As you say the leap is big. I don't see how being in the Championship is going to help without parachute payments. |
You build and strengthen to the level the longer you're at that level, building towards going up. Still tough but probably less tough. Or you do what Forest did the other year and sign 20 or so players and hope that they gel or at least enough to stay up.
That we're ahead of Leicester and Southampton is to Town's credit. | | | |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:55 - Feb 23 with 777 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:39 - Feb 23 by RadioOrwell |
Please stop this 'promoted too early' crp.
You actually wanted another season in the Championship ?
Why ? For what purpose ?
We might not have been promoted.
Do you think we would be better off in that scenario that we are right now ?
We have a much much much better squad. Arguing we should have a worse squad in a lower division is so bonkers it's mind boggling. |
I think the argument is that we could have developed a squad to be better prepared to improve into a Premier League one. Those complaining most would be those complaining most had we dropped into the play offs and then lost out to Southampton or nodge.
We are better off developing the team where we are. Some seem to have unrelaistic expectations of the rate of that development, though. | |
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| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:57 - Feb 23 with 774 views | NedPlimpton |
| Is it really a surprise where we are? on 16:14 - Feb 23 by Blue_In_Boston |
I am not endorsing the way Luton play, just pointing out that they remained competitive and in the fight until the end. |
And where are Luton now? |  | | |
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