| Like any business that is failing 08:35 - Feb 27 with 10679 views | muccletonjoe |
The Americans at gamechanger will not continue to bankroll a team that is failing.
Revenue will take a hit next year along with the clubs profile. It is pretty obvious they will be looking at McKenna , even though he has been the main reason behind our success to date.
I can't see too many bigger clubs knocking at the door like last summer, the questions will be asked about recruitment and the tactics employed. While it would have been a remarkable feat to stay in Premier league, if our form continues in the championship, things need to change pretty quickly. We know the fall can be quicker than the rise in football. |  | | |  |
| Like any business that is failing on 21:01 - Feb 27 with 1881 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Like any business that is failing on 19:51 - Feb 27 by muccletonjoe |
200 - 400 million. We don't even own the ground , where does that figure come from ?
We don't make a profit, we certainly won't this year.
Since when has this club picked up all these dead brains ? |
If you don’t know where that valuation comes from, you’ve not been paying attention and we have a pretty good idea where some of the “dead brains” are. |  | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 21:03 - Feb 27 with 1868 views | Swansea_Blue |
Great work 🤣 |  |
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| Like any business that is failing on 21:28 - Feb 27 with 1816 views | nrb1985 |
| Like any business that is failing on 20:51 - Feb 27 by muccletonjoe |
Total rubbish.
So in that case we could be losing a billion a year and still be valued at two and half times the earnings, even if it was a fraction of the losses and we were totally insolvent.
You should work on stock exchange son. Lol |
In that case please explain to me how a highly experienced and sophisticated private equity fund like Brightpath valued a loss making business at £250m when they purchased 40% of ITFC?
Or how OpenAI is currently raising at a $350bn valuation while making a loss?
I could go on. | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 21:56 - Feb 27 with 1775 views | Horsham |
| Like any business that is failing on 09:40 - Feb 27 by muccletonjoe |
I think you will find that money has been taken out of the pot already. They are not buying a training facility and then finding the money for it. |
Can you break that down for me. Genuinely not sure what you mean. |  | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 22:00 - Feb 27 with 1757 views | jaseitfc2015 |
Only we are ahead of schedule …. Stupid post | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 09:44 - Feb 28 with 1602 views | glasso |
Like any business, if you have 48 months of rapid, incredible growth and profit and then throw your toys out of the pram when you have a few bad months, you're not cut out to be a business owner. | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 09:52 - Feb 28 with 1574 views | turtle2 |
failing ? we will probably make a clear 20-40 mill on delap - our revenue has gone ballistic and we have plenty of talent left .... thats probably the best bit of business that U.S fund has done in a while....... dont confuse a failing business with a run of poor form on the pitch and please please try not to be so short sighted ....being in the championship next year - IF - thats where we are is probably right in line with the long term business plan | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 14:45 - Feb 28 with 1439 views | sidmouthblue |
| Like any business that is failing on 21:03 - Feb 27 by Swansea_Blue |
Great work 🤣 |
I don’t understand how this financial fair play stuff works. Will it require us to sell next year if and it’s a big if we go down? | | | |
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| Like any business that is failing on 16:19 - Feb 28 with 1405 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
Hyperbole from the OP aside, we really don't know where we are on 'the project'.
Whilst there would have been no expectation on being promoted last year, the (possible) relegation puts up back in the Championship.
So we are back where we were, albeit with lots of positives, and some concerns
Some positives:
Parachute money for 3 seasons. That is massive.
Several players with potential to be sold for big profit
A stronger squad
Experience of the PL
An attractive club to join for up and coming players
McKenna
Some concerns:
We have spent a lot. How many do we have to sell?
Delap. Is there loads of profit there, or is it limited by a buyback clause?
Do others have 'get-out' clauses meaning they can be sold for relatively low fees e.g. Davis?
Wages. Did we have to offer much more than we'd have liked to attract players? Even with relegation clauses, our wage bill could be too high?
Various players out of contract such as Tuanzebe, Burgess, who would be great in the Championship. They'll need to be replaced.
Midfield is a big problem. Morsy and Luongo will be end of career stage. Phillips and Cajuste will leave.
McKenna. What will happen?
We'll be much better placed in many ways than at the start of 2023/4. But there will be lots to be sorted. [Post edited 28 Feb 16:22]
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| Like any business that is failing on 17:48 - Feb 28 with 1343 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Like any business that is failing on 16:19 - Feb 28 by CBMTOBWMMBG |
Hyperbole from the OP aside, we really don't know where we are on 'the project'.
Whilst there would have been no expectation on being promoted last year, the (possible) relegation puts up back in the Championship.
So we are back where we were, albeit with lots of positives, and some concerns
Some positives:
Parachute money for 3 seasons. That is massive.
Several players with potential to be sold for big profit
A stronger squad
Experience of the PL
An attractive club to join for up and coming players
McKenna
Some concerns:
We have spent a lot. How many do we have to sell?
Delap. Is there loads of profit there, or is it limited by a buyback clause?
Do others have 'get-out' clauses meaning they can be sold for relatively low fees e.g. Davis?
Wages. Did we have to offer much more than we'd have liked to attract players? Even with relegation clauses, our wage bill could be too high?
Various players out of contract such as Tuanzebe, Burgess, who would be great in the Championship. They'll need to be replaced.
Midfield is a big problem. Morsy and Luongo will be end of career stage. Phillips and Cajuste will leave.
McKenna. What will happen?
We'll be much better placed in many ways than at the start of 2023/4. But there will be lots to be sorted. [Post edited 28 Feb 16:22]
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We won't be getting 3 years' parachute payments - they don't continue when you get promoted back to the EPL 
Yes, wages will be higher, even with relegation clauses, BUT that is one of the reasons the parachute payments were introduced. One season return to the Championship won't be too painful (you get 55% of the broadcast right figure in year 1, reducing to 45%, then 20% and finally nothing in the 4th year).
I suspect we won't have to sell if relegated, but that's not to say we won't in the right circumstances.
We will be so far ahead of where we were when we got promoted from L1.
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| Like any business that is failing on 18:04 - Feb 28 with 1300 views | HighgateBlue |
| Like any business that is failing on 20:01 - Feb 27 by Rozz |
A 40% ownership stake was sold around this time last year for £105 million, valuing the club at £262.5 million.
We've been promoted since then, in case you missed it. |
That valuation is certainly a good starting point for working out what a valuation today might look like.
I don't know how the sums add up in terms of what's come in and what's gone out since the 40% stake was sold, but we've spent an awful lot of money on players and I dare say the player assets are not now worth what we paid for them. |  | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 18:36 - Feb 28 with 1279 views | nrb1985 |
| Like any business that is failing on 18:04 - Feb 28 by HighgateBlue |
That valuation is certainly a good starting point for working out what a valuation today might look like.
I don't know how the sums add up in terms of what's come in and what's gone out since the 40% stake was sold, but we've spent an awful lot of money on players and I dare say the player assets are not now worth what we paid for them. |
The way the Brightpath deal was phrased made it sound like that valuation was contingent on us being in the premier league - not what we were worth at that time in the Champ.
We have now upgraded several areas and increased commercial revenues as well as having the parachute payments for the next two years. Plus a new sponsor next year who I assume will be paying more and over a longer period than our dear friend Ed.
As such I would suggest that the valuation, even back in the championship, would probably remain in that £250m area.
So basically still a 5x return on the initial investment - not too bad for a “failing” business. [Post edited 28 Feb 18:41]
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| Like any business that is failing on 20:15 - Feb 28 with 1227 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Like any business that is failing on 08:45 - Feb 27 by NeedhamChris |
Flash doesn't permit hypothetical discussions - so unless you can foresee the future there's not really any point in engaging. |
Tut tut.
What did we discuss last week about playing the ball and not the man Christopher? |  |
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| Like any business that is failing on 09:01 - Mar 1 with 1076 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Like any business that is failing on 08:59 - Feb 27 by mistert |
I don't t think it's at all fair to say we're falling in a business sense. I don't believe we'll be saddled with an unmanageable wage bill if we go down. We've obviously increased the wage bill but surely it's still tiny by premier league standards? People look at the headline transfer fees but ignore the spend on wages, which is where you can really do yourself harm. It's way too early to say the model isn't working for us, you could actually say we've been very sensible but only time will tell. |
You can't just choose to 'ignore' the wage bill. It will be astronomical compared to 12 months ago. The manager had a little rise of his own I believe...
Manchester Uniteds biggest problem is the wage bill, the fees have been paid the salaries and length of contracts are their problem. [Post edited 1 Mar 9:03]
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| Like any business that is failing on 12:15 - Mar 1 with 985 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Like any business that is failing on 09:01 - Mar 1 by Blue_In_Boston |
You can't just choose to 'ignore' the wage bill. It will be astronomical compared to 12 months ago. The manager had a little rise of his own I believe...
Manchester Uniteds biggest problem is the wage bill, the fees have been paid the salaries and length of contracts are their problem. [Post edited 1 Mar 9:03]
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Is anyone suggesting that the wage bill should be ignored if we're relegated? Yes, it will be higher but so will our income next season compared to when we were in the Championship last season. | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 07:32 - Mar 2 with 845 views | muccletonjoe |
| Like any business that is failing on 12:15 - Mar 1 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Is anyone suggesting that the wage bill should be ignored if we're relegated? Yes, it will be higher but so will our income next season compared to when we were in the Championship last season. |
Alot of money has been spent which will not be coming back ( Muric) for example. If we are going to pay the wages we will need a competitive team . It remains to be seen what that will look like | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 09:17 - Mar 2 with 792 views | nrb1985 |
| Like any business that is failing on 07:32 - Mar 2 by muccletonjoe |
Alot of money has been spent which will not be coming back ( Muric) for example. If we are going to pay the wages we will need a competitive team . It remains to be seen what that will look like |
Give it a rest mate - you must be frustrated after the 97th minute goal you conceded yesterday, understandable. But no need to re ignite this thread with more nonsense. Especially when you have school tomorrow too. | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 09:50 - Mar 2 with 772 views | muccletonjoe |
| Like any business that is failing on 09:17 - Mar 2 by nrb1985 |
Give it a rest mate - you must be frustrated after the 97th minute goal you conceded yesterday, understandable. But no need to re ignite this thread with more nonsense. Especially when you have school tomorrow too. |
We won 4- 0 . So don't know what game you are on about. | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 11:02 - Mar 2 with 705 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Like any business that is failing on 07:32 - Mar 2 by muccletonjoe |
Alot of money has been spent which will not be coming back ( Muric) for example. If we are going to pay the wages we will need a competitive team . It remains to be seen what that will look like |
You seem to fail to grasp the basic finances involved in the club. If you think that is an unfair observation, do show some numbers that support your conjecture. | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 12:18 - Mar 2 with 650 views | muccletonjoe |
| Like any business that is failing on 11:02 - Mar 2 by SuffolkPunchFC |
You seem to fail to grasp the basic finances involved in the club. If you think that is an unfair observation, do show some numbers that support your conjecture. |
You know the transfer fees we have spent. You know how much it cost to get ready for sky tv. You know the manager was given a lucrative new contract to stay. I doubt very much if that is affected by relegation. On top of that we are building a new training facility.
I don't think it is in all honesty, me who needs to give you the figures. | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 12:20 - Mar 2 with 640 views | MK1 |
Our rise was a darn sight faster than our fall. |  |
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| Like any business that is failing on 12:22 - Mar 2 with 633 views | Bobbychase |
| Like any business that is failing on 12:18 - Mar 2 by muccletonjoe |
You know the transfer fees we have spent. You know how much it cost to get ready for sky tv. You know the manager was given a lucrative new contract to stay. I doubt very much if that is affected by relegation. On top of that we are building a new training facility.
I don't think it is in all honesty, me who needs to give you the figures. |
The training ground investment refutes your point rather than supports it though.
Think about it for a second. If the USA backers were getting cold feet and thought their investment wasn't giving a return, they'd drop the training ground scheme now to save some money. Instead they are going ahead, almost as if they see this as a long-term project.... |  |
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| Like any business that is failing on 12:22 - Mar 2 with 632 views | Horsham |
| Like any business that is failing on 12:18 - Mar 2 by muccletonjoe |
You know the transfer fees we have spent. You know how much it cost to get ready for sky tv. You know the manager was given a lucrative new contract to stay. I doubt very much if that is affected by relegation. On top of that we are building a new training facility.
I don't think it is in all honesty, me who needs to give you the figures. |
Do you take into account the additional the revenue the club will be guaranteed to recieve in the next 3 years. Min one year in the PL and 2 years parachute payments I think. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but pretty sure it’s in the region of £140m this season and £80m for the next two. So £300m. The fees we’ve spent albeit to us eye watering are basically pretty inconsequential in PL terms even with relegation factored in. | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 12:27 - Mar 2 with 618 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Like any business that is failing on 12:18 - Mar 2 by muccletonjoe |
You know the transfer fees we have spent. You know how much it cost to get ready for sky tv. You know the manager was given a lucrative new contract to stay. I doubt very much if that is affected by relegation. On top of that we are building a new training facility.
I don't think it is in all honesty, me who needs to give you the figures. |
Excellent attempt at deflection. The classic response by someone who can't substantiate rhetoric. | | | |
| Like any business that is failing on 12:43 - Mar 2 with 595 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Like any business that is failing on 12:22 - Mar 2 by Horsham |
Do you take into account the additional the revenue the club will be guaranteed to recieve in the next 3 years. Min one year in the PL and 2 years parachute payments I think. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but pretty sure it’s in the region of £140m this season and £80m for the next two. So £300m. The fees we’ve spent albeit to us eye watering are basically pretty inconsequential in PL terms even with relegation factored in. |
This is part of it. Then there is the current valuation of the club, and significant assets. Sure, some player value may have reduced, but many have increased - some by massive amounts e.g. Leif.
Others may take years to appreciate, because we've invested in young players with potential. We're also not planning to sell these quickly - they are our foundations for the future (both playing and trading). Their contract lengths ensure we play well within FFP.
By my calculations IF we are in the Championship next year, then we will be able to spend funds an order of magnitude greater than last year, whilst adhering to FFP rules.
All of this supports the view that we are a sound financial investment for the owners, and a likely a couple of years ahead of schedule. | | | |
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