| Elanga cost Forest £15m 20:17 - Mar 15 with 12479 views | Trequartista |
Really think we went wrong with our multiple £20m purchases of English Championship all-stars. |  |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 16:54 - Mar 16 with 1862 views | sjg |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 16:44 - Mar 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Nice attempt at twisting, but you said "Our revenue going forward is the same as any other Prem club". I just listed a few Prem clubs and asked you in what way our revenue is the same... but actually I could've listed every single Prem club.
Now kindly show your workings that our revenue is the same as any other Prem club. |
Do you come on here to play semantics or discuss football? Surely you can work out what I meant? |  | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 16:54 - Mar 16 with 1859 views | NedPlimpton |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 16:22 - Mar 16 by Trequartista |
I think I'm right in saying we beat Brentford to a couple of our signings this season so there's no real evidence to say that we wouldn't be able to sign someone of Elanga's profile when he left Man Utd.
It's just an example anyway that happened to be prominent because of yesterday, there are hundreds of foreign players we haven't gone for, and yes our foreign scouting system is not as advanced as other clubs but plenty of foreign players already play here or are already known.
I just think we've gone with too many up-and-coming players who are not yet good enough rather some more experienced players who are not the best in the division (otherwise they'd be out of reach) but at least have some savvy and knowhow of the division. It may transpire that Ashton admits this over time. |
We signed Muric, Johnson, Phillips, o'shea and Godfrey all with reasonable to impressive prem experience! [Post edited 16 Mar 16:56]
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:00 - Mar 16 with 1802 views | ITFCSG |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 16:51 - Mar 16 by Herbivore |
Yeah, why did we go in for Delap? What a waste of money he's been, eh?
Who was this summer's Elanga equivalent then who we didn't go in for? |
Well, Delap's form have tailed off massively after Tottenham and he isn't a proven goalscorer last season in the Champ as well (although I acknowledge he was out injured for a long period of time) hopefully he is not the new Macauley Bonne
If I knew how to identify the "Elanga equivalent" I wouldn't be here posting on TWTD would I? That's the job of the Town management who are bloomin' well paid for it, not me! | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:06 - Mar 16 with 1755 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 16:54 - Mar 16 by sjg |
Do you come on here to play semantics or discuss football? Surely you can work out what I meant? |
No, I can't work out what you meant. I tend to go by what people's words actually say rather than figure out some hidden meaning.
At the end of the day you seem to think a player who joined Forest for £15m we should have been able to get because £15m is less than we paid for some players. But it's not as simple as that, as I and many others in the thread have pointed out. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:09 - Mar 16 with 1731 views | Herbivore |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:00 - Mar 16 by ITFCSG |
Well, Delap's form have tailed off massively after Tottenham and he isn't a proven goalscorer last season in the Champ as well (although I acknowledge he was out injured for a long period of time) hopefully he is not the new Macauley Bonne
If I knew how to identify the "Elanga equivalent" I wouldn't be here posting on TWTD would I? That's the job of the Town management who are bloomin' well paid for it, not me! |
Do you honestly think if there'd been someone of Elanga's profile available for £15m that we wouldn't have gone in for them? Most of our signings are players who have come through top Prem academies so it's a bit odd to think we'd not have gone in for someone like Elanga if we'd had the option.
The stuff about Delap is just bonkers to be honest so not worth responding to. If you're at a point where you're reluctant to even acknowledge that Delap has been a good signing then there's no helping you. |  |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:11 - Mar 16 with 1717 views | Trequartista |
A lot of people trying to disect Elanga when that was just an example. OK he didn't join when Forest when were promoted but they did sign these players (amongst many others that are no longer in the team) when they were promoted
Awoniyi £17m
Danilo £17m
Wood on loan
Gibbs-White £27m
Williams £18m
There are young English players there mixed with foreign signings. | |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:11 - Mar 16 with 1705 views | sjg |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:06 - Mar 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No, I can't work out what you meant. I tend to go by what people's words actually say rather than figure out some hidden meaning.
At the end of the day you seem to think a player who joined Forest for £15m we should have been able to get because £15m is less than we paid for some players. But it's not as simple as that, as I and many others in the thread have pointed out. |
That’s not what I’ve said and given CHO and Elanga both joined Forest when we had just been promoted from League 1, I don’t think we had a realistic chance of signing them. However, I was using Forest’s ability to attract them following one season in the Prem and with looming FFP charges to illustrate the fact that actually, they weren’t much more attractive a proposition than we were.
My point on the club’s revenue (this is a separate point, I am not saying we are as attractive as the clubs I’m about to list) was relative to the clubs around us - even the Palace, Fulhams etc will be generating a similar amount of revenue as us this season.
Hope that clarifies and you can respond to my actual point rather than my wording. Cheers | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:15 - Mar 16 with 1678 views | ITFCSG |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:09 - Mar 16 by Herbivore |
Do you honestly think if there'd been someone of Elanga's profile available for £15m that we wouldn't have gone in for them? Most of our signings are players who have come through top Prem academies so it's a bit odd to think we'd not have gone in for someone like Elanga if we'd had the option.
The stuff about Delap is just bonkers to be honest so not worth responding to. If you're at a point where you're reluctant to even acknowledge that Delap has been a good signing then there's no helping you. |
Well nothing is guaranteed in football.
I am not 100% confident of the club's scouting prowess if they managed to sign players like Muric and Godfrey in the Prem and pay c.£20 million each for Philogene and J Clarke who are both unproven at Prem level. | | | |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:32 - Mar 17 with 1524 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:11 - Mar 16 by sjg |
That’s not what I’ve said and given CHO and Elanga both joined Forest when we had just been promoted from League 1, I don’t think we had a realistic chance of signing them. However, I was using Forest’s ability to attract them following one season in the Prem and with looming FFP charges to illustrate the fact that actually, they weren’t much more attractive a proposition than we were.
My point on the club’s revenue (this is a separate point, I am not saying we are as attractive as the clubs I’m about to list) was relative to the clubs around us - even the Palace, Fulhams etc will be generating a similar amount of revenue as us this season.
Hope that clarifies and you can respond to my actual point rather than my wording. Cheers |
Forest recklessly smashed FFP and signed a shedload of players. They played the numbers game - kept the ones that worked, got rid of the ones that didn't, and took the hit re FFP. It was a massive gamble which paid off, not to mention they presumably had a decent foreign scouting network set up, which we didn't have due to Evans' penny pinching.
Also Forest hadn't just come straight through the Champ from League 1.
It's great with hindsight but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable taking such a gamble with our club - particularly with our caveats of feck-all foreign scouting and recently out of League 1.
On the revenue point you're still wrong. The clubs you cite will have much more revenue than us, having been established in the Prem and collecting all that lovely Prem money for years. Which also means squads packed with Prem players they could sell. Even their finishing positions from last season will have given them more revenue than us; all the Prem placings earn more than 2nd in the Champ. You seem to think revenue is just ticket and merch sales. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:35 - Mar 17 with 1514 views | Leaky |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 20:25 - Mar 15 by ITFCSG |
Buying potential is pointless when we can't stay up because
1. There is no guarantee that they will reach their top potential with us
and
2. If we aren't in the PL they will leave for a PL club
So effectively we are just training youngsters for other PL clubs higher up in the footballing chain. And there's a risk they fail to live up to their potential which would leave us with a very expensive dud. That's what happened to Southampton, Leicester etc. What's the point? |
Yep ITFC need a crystal ball |  | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:39 - Mar 17 with 1505 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 16:52 - Mar 16 by victorysquad |
We made Elanga look world class yesterday, somehow. |
He’s having a very good season, we’re not the only team he’s torn apart this year. |  |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:39 - Mar 17 with 1504 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 17:00 - Mar 16 by ITFCSG |
Well, Delap's form have tailed off massively after Tottenham and he isn't a proven goalscorer last season in the Champ as well (although I acknowledge he was out injured for a long period of time) hopefully he is not the new Macauley Bonne
If I knew how to identify the "Elanga equivalent" I wouldn't be here posting on TWTD would I? That's the job of the Town management who are bloomin' well paid for it, not me! |
You ignore the fact Elanga (and Gibbs-White, Williams, Hudson-Odoi, Aina etc) have now been there for nearly two full seasons and have developed together over that period. Those players and that team didn't hit the ground running, they finished 17th last season with 32 points - a total that likely would be less than Wolves manage this season. They've just about managed it two seasons in a row and then been able to build with some decent signings this summer, fair play. [Post edited 17 Mar 9:54]
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:59 - Mar 17 with 1452 views | sjg |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:32 - Mar 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Forest recklessly smashed FFP and signed a shedload of players. They played the numbers game - kept the ones that worked, got rid of the ones that didn't, and took the hit re FFP. It was a massive gamble which paid off, not to mention they presumably had a decent foreign scouting network set up, which we didn't have due to Evans' penny pinching.
Also Forest hadn't just come straight through the Champ from League 1.
It's great with hindsight but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable taking such a gamble with our club - particularly with our caveats of feck-all foreign scouting and recently out of League 1.
On the revenue point you're still wrong. The clubs you cite will have much more revenue than us, having been established in the Prem and collecting all that lovely Prem money for years. Which also means squads packed with Prem players they could sell. Even their finishing positions from last season will have given them more revenue than us; all the Prem placings earn more than 2nd in the Champ. You seem to think revenue is just ticket and merch sales. |
Yeah, that's why I said this season, so not sure how relevant 2nd place in the Championship is? | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:10 - Mar 17 with 1423 views | ITFCSG |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:35 - Mar 17 by Leaky |
Yep ITFC need a crystal ball |
You don’t need a crystal ball but you need to know how to identify players both domestically and abroad that are fit for purpose in the League we are in and hopefully can play at an even higher level. In sum, value for money viz their performance on the pitch
Signing players like Muric and Godfrey this season and paying way over the moon for Philogene and Clarke isn’t. Look at what happened to Leicester when they overpaid for duds. Southampton also with Sulemana etc.
Our recruitment so far seem only fixated on certain types of player - Champ level youth wingers mixed with a few Prem rejects that no other PL teams want.
How on Earth did we not make an offer for Tanaka who went to Leeds for only £3 million when we needed a CM badly I’d never know. He was even playing at PR with our “partner” club Fortuna Düsseldorf and was one of the stand outs on the pitch! That’s value. You don’t need a crystal ball for that. But ffs we went and gambled on an unfit Philips that have started just 3 times and played 8 games last season for c.£100k a week. Insane. | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:21 - Mar 17 with 1391 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:59 - Mar 17 by sjg |
Yeah, that's why I said this season, so not sure how relevant 2nd place in the Championship is? |
Hahaha, are you on a wind-up?!
The money you get for last season's placing is available to do what you want with this. It doesn't just disappear in a puff of smoke when the season starts!
Same with the years and years of Prem TV money they've been enjoying.
And what about my point about those teams being stocked with Prem players, some of which they'll sell?
You seem to think everyone starts the season with a clean slate! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:24 - Mar 17 with 1373 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:10 - Mar 17 by ITFCSG |
You don’t need a crystal ball but you need to know how to identify players both domestically and abroad that are fit for purpose in the League we are in and hopefully can play at an even higher level. In sum, value for money viz their performance on the pitch
Signing players like Muric and Godfrey this season and paying way over the moon for Philogene and Clarke isn’t. Look at what happened to Leicester when they overpaid for duds. Southampton also with Sulemana etc.
Our recruitment so far seem only fixated on certain types of player - Champ level youth wingers mixed with a few Prem rejects that no other PL teams want.
How on Earth did we not make an offer for Tanaka who went to Leeds for only £3 million when we needed a CM badly I’d never know. He was even playing at PR with our “partner” club Fortuna Düsseldorf and was one of the stand outs on the pitch! That’s value. You don’t need a crystal ball for that. But ffs we went and gambled on an unfit Philips that have started just 3 times and played 8 games last season for c.£100k a week. Insane. |
I'm not going to bother as there's so much wrong with your post I wouldn't even know where to start, but just wanted to say I've never heard the phrase "paying way over the moon", so well done for originality! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:12 - Mar 17 with 1319 views | dirtyboy |
wood (15), elanga (15), gibbs-white (26), odoi (3), dominguez (6), anderson (37), aina (free), milenkovic (11), murillo (11), williams (18), sels (7), morato (10), yates (youth) awoniyi (19), jota (6), danilo (18).
notable missing is sangre (30)
Total around £230m
ogbene (8) szmodics (9) townsend (0.5) clarke (15) o'shea (14) greaves (18) hutchinson (20) delap (15) philogene (20) palmer (2) muric (8)
Total around £130m
Lets not forget they broke rules (albeit successfully) to stay in the league. Could have been disasterous, but worked.
Are we £100m short of a PL squad. Probably not.
Have a couple of signings not worked out? Of course.
Look.
Money buys success.....
It's that obvious.
Southampton's squad cost 50m to more to assemble than ours
Leicesters 140m
Wolves 210m
Just all came a bit too soon and we had a good go.
Did I think McKenna would be the difference? For sure, but i'm not bitterly disappointed, just sad we haven't been able to enjoy it as much as perhaps we all expected.
Positives
* training ground could help attract players we perhaps missed out on last time
* average age of starting 11 amongst lowest in the league
* due to age, many of those players will improve
* should make a tidy profit on delap
* experience from PL will be invaluable if we get a second chance
Never lose, only learn. |  | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 13:33 - Mar 17 with 1213 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:21 - Mar 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Hahaha, are you on a wind-up?!
The money you get for last season's placing is available to do what you want with this. It doesn't just disappear in a puff of smoke when the season starts!
Same with the years and years of Prem TV money they've been enjoying.
And what about my point about those teams being stocked with Prem players, some of which they'll sell?
You seem to think everyone starts the season with a clean slate! |
LOL, just a downarrow sjg, no response because I've shown how daft your reasoning is? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 13:38 - Mar 17 with 1209 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:12 - Mar 17 by dirtyboy |
wood (15), elanga (15), gibbs-white (26), odoi (3), dominguez (6), anderson (37), aina (free), milenkovic (11), murillo (11), williams (18), sels (7), morato (10), yates (youth) awoniyi (19), jota (6), danilo (18).
notable missing is sangre (30)
Total around £230m
ogbene (8) szmodics (9) townsend (0.5) clarke (15) o'shea (14) greaves (18) hutchinson (20) delap (15) philogene (20) palmer (2) muric (8)
Total around £130m
Lets not forget they broke rules (albeit successfully) to stay in the league. Could have been disasterous, but worked.
Are we £100m short of a PL squad. Probably not.
Have a couple of signings not worked out? Of course.
Look.
Money buys success.....
It's that obvious.
Southampton's squad cost 50m to more to assemble than ours
Leicesters 140m
Wolves 210m
Just all came a bit too soon and we had a good go.
Did I think McKenna would be the difference? For sure, but i'm not bitterly disappointed, just sad we haven't been able to enjoy it as much as perhaps we all expected.
Positives
* training ground could help attract players we perhaps missed out on last time
* average age of starting 11 amongst lowest in the league
* due to age, many of those players will improve
* should make a tidy profit on delap
* experience from PL will be invaluable if we get a second chance
Never lose, only learn. |
Also, most of the rash of players Forest brought in for their first season didn't last long. I think Joe said on Blue Monday only 1 of them played on Saturday.
They played the numbers game, threw so much money at it that they broke the rules, and survived in 17th on 32 points (which probably wouldn't be enough this season). Hell of a gamble that was!
But the point is you can't take one player out of context and say well he worked out, why didn't we get him? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:13 - Mar 18 with 1011 views | NeedhamChris |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 13:38 - Mar 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Also, most of the rash of players Forest brought in for their first season didn't last long. I think Joe said on Blue Monday only 1 of them played on Saturday.
They played the numbers game, threw so much money at it that they broke the rules, and survived in 17th on 32 points (which probably wouldn't be enough this season). Hell of a gamble that was!
But the point is you can't take one player out of context and say well he worked out, why didn't we get him? |
Agree on the numbers game, but which one of us or Leicester do you think are getting to 32 points? | |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 08:12 - Mar 18 with 946 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:13 - Mar 18 by NeedhamChris |
Agree on the numbers game, but which one of us or Leicester do you think are getting to 32 points? |
Where have I said one of us or Leicester are getting to 32 points? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:18 - Mar 18 with 886 views | NeedhamChris |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 08:12 - Mar 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Where have I said one of us or Leicester are getting to 32 points? |
You haven't - it was late, read that as you saying Forest wouldn't have survived this season. You are correct!
I think Wolves will end up on 35/36, sadly. | |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:21 - Mar 18 with 803 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:18 - Mar 18 by NeedhamChris |
You haven't - it was late, read that as you saying Forest wouldn't have survived this season. You are correct!
I think Wolves will end up on 35/36, sadly. |
It wasn't late, I posted that at half past one in the afternoon, and you replied at quarter past seven the next morning. Unless you're somewhere else in the world on a different timezone? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 13:06 - Mar 18 with 738 views | NeedhamChris |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:21 - Mar 18 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It wasn't late, I posted that at half past one in the afternoon, and you replied at quarter past seven the next morning. Unless you're somewhere else in the world on a different timezone? |
I meant early - in short - I was tired!
Is there anything that you won't create an argument out of? | |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 13:20 - Mar 18 with 702 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 13:06 - Mar 18 by NeedhamChris |
I meant early - in short - I was tired!
Is there anything that you won't create an argument out of? |
Erm, it's you who came at me trying to create something out of nothing and getting it wrong. I'd wind my neck in if I were you. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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