| Elanga cost Forest £15m 20:17 - Mar 15 with 12350 views | Trequartista |
Really think we went wrong with our multiple £20m purchases of English Championship all-stars. |  |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:22 - Mar 16 with 1858 views | textbackup |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 21:14 - Mar 15 by bsw72 |
And is on 80k per week. |
What’s KP earning?
I know the deal I’d have rather seen… |  |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:40 - Mar 16 with 1855 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Such clueless and simplistic thinking, and parroted by several other equally clueless people in the thread.
We could all cite players who cost other teams less than one of our players. There's so much more to it than that. For starters he was joining Forest, which is a much more attractive proposition than Ipswich who've come straight up from League 1. Then, as others have said, there's the wages - which other teams can pay much more of because they have parachute payments at worst and years and years of Prem money for the majority.
And there's even some twonk moaning about our lack of foreign investment when it's well known by everyone that we haven't been able to develop the foreign recruitment structure yet (which was non-existent under Evans).
There's also the point that many of these players (especially the foreign ones) don't hit the ground running immediately, and all you lot moaning about the lack of foreign investment would be moaning about foreign investment if we'd gone down that route and they didn't click immediately.
So many of you think real life is the same as Football Manager. Clueless.
Everyone downarrowing this might as well be putting up your hand and saying "I'm clueless". |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:41 - Mar 16 with 1844 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 20:21 - Mar 15 by FrimleyBlue |
There's potential that philogene. Hutch etc Could go on to be worth 2 or 3 times their purchase price. 1 because of their nationality and 2 because of their talents. |
You mean there was potential. If (when) we're relegated their value has gone down as they have shown they are not Premier League quality. |  | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:43 - Mar 16 with 1825 views | Herbivore |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:41 - Mar 16 by Blue_In_Boston |
You mean there was potential. If (when) we're relegated their value has gone down as they have shown they are not Premier League quality. |
They are young and still learning. Writing them off after a difficult first season in the Prem would be daft. |  |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:50 - Mar 16 with 1811 views | BlueOura |
Bournemouth paid 9.6m for Justin Kluivert, half the price we paid for Philogene. Let that sink in.
* Not suggesting we could have signed him last summer of course, but it just goes to show that good value signings are out there and we really need to get a proper European scouting network up and running asap. |  | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:54 - Mar 16 with 1803 views | Blue_Heath |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 20:24 - Mar 15 by Trequartista |
That's true, and one or two were great purchases, but we're a football team, not an isa. |
Sums up beautifully where we have gone wrong. I don't see a team on the pitch, no leaders, no understanding, square pegs in round holes and players in team due to price tag or loan wages.
We royally screwed up one of our best assets which was togetherness. We have an expensive squad with no XI that can work together and get results. | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 08:05 - Mar 16 with 1747 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 21:45 - Mar 15 by ITFCSG |
Phillips is stealing a living for 100k a week. Another one going through the motions. If he loves Leeds so much I'll drive him to Elland Road now. Look at his body language today, useless. |
I never want to hear slander on Morsys name again after that Phillips performance yesterday.
An absolute waste of time and money, and I’d rather have Morsy in the side over him every day of the week. |  |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:17 - Mar 16 with 1541 views | bobbyramsey |
Coaching and improving young players is supposed to be KM's forte, I think this is why we invested in these types of recruits.
Has KM started to believe his own hype? Hope he pulls his finger out soon.... [Post edited 16 Mar 9:19]
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:37 - Mar 16 with 1479 views | sjg |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 07:40 - Mar 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Such clueless and simplistic thinking, and parroted by several other equally clueless people in the thread.
We could all cite players who cost other teams less than one of our players. There's so much more to it than that. For starters he was joining Forest, which is a much more attractive proposition than Ipswich who've come straight up from League 1. Then, as others have said, there's the wages - which other teams can pay much more of because they have parachute payments at worst and years and years of Prem money for the majority.
And there's even some twonk moaning about our lack of foreign investment when it's well known by everyone that we haven't been able to develop the foreign recruitment structure yet (which was non-existent under Evans).
There's also the point that many of these players (especially the foreign ones) don't hit the ground running immediately, and all you lot moaning about the lack of foreign investment would be moaning about foreign investment if we'd gone down that route and they didn't click immediately.
So many of you think real life is the same as Football Manager. Clueless.
Everyone downarrowing this might as well be putting up your hand and saying "I'm clueless". |
Forest had spent 1 year in the Prem, were involved in a relegation battle and had FFP hanging over their head so I struggle to see that as a particularly attractive proposition
I can’t inagine our b/f losses are that bad particularly in comparison to a Forest, for example, who have had FFP charges previously. Our revenue going forward is the same as any other Prem club so not sure how relevant that is
We have had 2 seasons prior to this one to build an overseas network, not doing so is an oversight at best and careless at worst. Some of our spending has made no sense which it’s easy to say with hindsight, but it looks like we have been buying players for the sake of it - are you young, English and have had a decent season in the Championship? £20m!
But as usual, you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is clueless | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:02 - Mar 16 with 1410 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 09:37 - Mar 16 by sjg |
Forest had spent 1 year in the Prem, were involved in a relegation battle and had FFP hanging over their head so I struggle to see that as a particularly attractive proposition
I can’t inagine our b/f losses are that bad particularly in comparison to a Forest, for example, who have had FFP charges previously. Our revenue going forward is the same as any other Prem club so not sure how relevant that is
We have had 2 seasons prior to this one to build an overseas network, not doing so is an oversight at best and careless at worst. Some of our spending has made no sense which it’s easy to say with hindsight, but it looks like we have been buying players for the sake of it - are you young, English and have had a decent season in the Championship? £20m!
But as usual, you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is clueless |
Glad you fell for my clueless trap. And you've even emphasised it here!
"Our revenue going forward is the same as any other Prem club so not sure how relevant that is"
What?!?!? Would love to see your working on how we have the same revenue as Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Newcastle, Aston Villa, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd etc. etc. etc.
"We have had 2 seasons prior to this one to build an overseas network, not doing so is an oversight at best and careless at worst."
You don't just put one in place and that's that, it's all hunky dory and the players start flooding in. It takes years to build up the infrastructure, talent scouts and contacts.
Again, and I'm sorry if it upsets you, but yes, these both show you're clueless. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:04 - Mar 16 with 1393 views | sjg |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:02 - Mar 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Glad you fell for my clueless trap. And you've even emphasised it here!
"Our revenue going forward is the same as any other Prem club so not sure how relevant that is"
What?!?!? Would love to see your working on how we have the same revenue as Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Newcastle, Aston Villa, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd etc. etc. etc.
"We have had 2 seasons prior to this one to build an overseas network, not doing so is an oversight at best and careless at worst."
You don't just put one in place and that's that, it's all hunky dory and the players start flooding in. It takes years to build up the infrastructure, talent scouts and contacts.
Again, and I'm sorry if it upsets you, but yes, these both show you're clueless. |
We’re not competing with those teams for players are we? And do you know how much recruitment is based on actually watching players vs tracking data? It’s not the 80s, any team in the Prem should be able tor recruit more than 1 player from overseas | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:05 - Mar 16 with 1388 views | itfc_statman |
We signed Ben Godfrey in January.
That was the extent of our scouting and recruitment capability in a vital window. | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:10 - Mar 16 with 1344 views | NedPlimpton |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:05 - Mar 16 by itfc_statman |
We signed Ben Godfrey in January.
That was the extent of our scouting and recruitment capability in a vital window. |
I thought people wanted us to sign players with Prem experience??
I can't keep up |  | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:12 - Mar 16 with 1323 views | Radlett_blue |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 21:13 - Mar 15 by bsw72 |
Comparing player fees is only half the story and is easy, what has to be considered to fully understand is the wage bill, contract structure etc. You have to sign players who are willing to come to a club who will be battling relegation and so the players need to balance their salary expectations with a relegation clause, international players will not want to join an underperforming team etc.
Fans need to be realistic about what we can afford to pay in fees and salaries without putting the club at risk, like what happened in 2003 and to a lesser extent 1986. |
Indeed, we didn't have the budget to sign ready made, proven PL players so we went for young, Championship players who might step up & improve. Not all of them have worked out so far but not sure there was a better strategy available. |  |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:23 - Mar 16 with 1256 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 20:21 - Mar 15 by FrimleyBlue |
There's potential that philogene. Hutch etc Could go on to be worth 2 or 3 times their purchase price. 1 because of their nationality and 2 because of their talents. |
Elanga is 22 and had played for Man U for 2 seasons before his 15m move to Forest.
Jaden is 23 and had played 14 times for Villa over 4 seasons before his 20m move to Town.
Not sure what data the data team are using. | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:32 - Mar 16 with 1215 views | OldFart71 |
I think our problem is more to do with the midfield than any other positions. If you look at the problems we have had there only Cajuste has probably made any sort of impact. Morsy and Loungo too old and too slow, Phillips is definitely not worth the wages we are paying and hasn't resurrected his career and Taylor who has been around for a while now can't nail a place down even when injuries and suspension have taken a player out of the squad. In the past we have had the likes of Viljoen, Holland. Talbot,Wark, Murhen etc. In order to bring out the best in Cajuste and the rest of the team we need a dynamic athletic midfield, box to box type player in that position. | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:36 - Mar 16 with 1175 views | pointofblue |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:12 - Mar 16 by Radlett_blue |
Indeed, we didn't have the budget to sign ready made, proven PL players so we went for young, Championship players who might step up & improve. Not all of them have worked out so far but not sure there was a better strategy available. |
There would have been, but the club was in such a mess in terms of it's scouting set up (no fault of the current administration) that we couldn't take advantage of it.
I do think we should have put in a bid for Tanaka the moment he played so well against us, though. At £3m he was hardly a risk, and surely we could have beaten Leeds to his signature. | |
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| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:10 - Mar 16 with 1103 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:23 - Mar 16 by WolfieAtTheBack |
Elanga is 22 and had played for Man U for 2 seasons before his 15m move to Forest.
Jaden is 23 and had played 14 times for Villa over 4 seasons before his 20m move to Town.
Not sure what data the data team are using. |
The data where they can't time travel? The data that says two years ago when they signed him we were in league one?
Elanga is a great example of who we 'should have signed' and held up as an example now. But he was a 20 year old who had started 4 premier league games for utd and they spent £15 million on him. That sounds exactly like our spending plans. The only difference is Elangas fans can go back in time and use hindsight, we don't have that luxury. |  | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:18 - Mar 16 with 1063 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:10 - Mar 16 by Axeldalai_lama |
The data where they can't time travel? The data that says two years ago when they signed him we were in league one?
Elanga is a great example of who we 'should have signed' and held up as an example now. But he was a 20 year old who had started 4 premier league games for utd and they spent £15 million on him. That sounds exactly like our spending plans. The only difference is Elangas fans can go back in time and use hindsight, we don't have that luxury. |
A forward thinking recruitment team would know about these players what ever league the are working from.
We were pushing for promotion from the Championship in Jan window 2024, so all of these players should have been on the radar a long way out of any approach.
Didn't Ashton say he has KM on his radar for a good few years whilst he was at Bristol City, then approached him for the Ipswich job when he joined us, these things take years to come to fruition sometimes likes any industry.
In this instance KM may have worked with the player when he was youth coach at Old Trafford.
Any way, if's and buts's and ups and down's. | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:21 - Mar 16 with 1059 views | ITFCSG |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 10:36 - Mar 16 by pointofblue |
There would have been, but the club was in such a mess in terms of it's scouting set up (no fault of the current administration) that we couldn't take advantage of it.
I do think we should have put in a bid for Tanaka the moment he played so well against us, though. At £3m he was hardly a risk, and surely we could have beaten Leeds to his signature. |
Tanaka isn’t a native English speaker and didn’t develop under the domestic system so of course he wouldn’t be under McK’s radar
Some people here still can delude themselves that our recruitment over the summer and in Jan were the best we could have done and have no complaints on who we recruited
I beg to differ | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:23 - Mar 16 with 1041 views | NedPlimpton |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:18 - Mar 16 by WolfieAtTheBack |
A forward thinking recruitment team would know about these players what ever league the are working from.
We were pushing for promotion from the Championship in Jan window 2024, so all of these players should have been on the radar a long way out of any approach.
Didn't Ashton say he has KM on his radar for a good few years whilst he was at Bristol City, then approached him for the Ipswich job when he joined us, these things take years to come to fruition sometimes likes any industry.
In this instance KM may have worked with the player when he was youth coach at Old Trafford.
Any way, if's and buts's and ups and down's. |
Honestly, this is ridiculous
Elanga was seen as a bit of a coup for forest. There is no way he was dropping a division at any point in his career to date | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:24 - Mar 16 with 1037 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:18 - Mar 16 by WolfieAtTheBack |
A forward thinking recruitment team would know about these players what ever league the are working from.
We were pushing for promotion from the Championship in Jan window 2024, so all of these players should have been on the radar a long way out of any approach.
Didn't Ashton say he has KM on his radar for a good few years whilst he was at Bristol City, then approached him for the Ipswich job when he joined us, these things take years to come to fruition sometimes likes any industry.
In this instance KM may have worked with the player when he was youth coach at Old Trafford.
Any way, if's and buts's and ups and down's. |
He signed for forest in July 2023. | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:30 - Mar 16 with 1006 views | ITFCSG |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:23 - Mar 16 by NedPlimpton |
Honestly, this is ridiculous
Elanga was seen as a bit of a coup for forest. There is no way he was dropping a division at any point in his career to date |
Well, we got Morsy, Luongo, Hirst and signed Broadhead and Clarke in League One so it is possible to get players to drop down a division.
Obviously the spin of MA and McK’s “project” doesn’t cut it with Prem players | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:31 - Mar 16 with 998 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:21 - Mar 16 by ITFCSG |
Tanaka isn’t a native English speaker and didn’t develop under the domestic system so of course he wouldn’t be under McK’s radar
Some people here still can delude themselves that our recruitment over the summer and in Jan were the best we could have done and have no complaints on who we recruited
I beg to differ |
Has anyone said our recruitment was the best that could be done? Even one person?
Those defending it, as I have and will do, simply suggest it's very very difficult, and a million times easier with the benefit of hindsight. It's a huge huge huge step up and no one knows who will make it, unless they use huge hindsight and examples that in reality could have been just as wrong but just happened to work. | | | |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:35 - Mar 16 with 981 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Elanga cost Forest £15m on 11:30 - Mar 16 by ITFCSG |
Well, we got Morsy, Luongo, Hirst and signed Broadhead and Clarke in League One so it is possible to get players to drop down a division.
Obviously the spin of MA and McK’s “project” doesn’t cut it with Prem players |
You are genuinely saying we should have rivalled a premier league team whilst newly promoted to the championship, and spent £15 million, and that because we didn't our management team failed. Wow. | | | |
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