| Net Spending 10:43 - Apr 15 with 5669 views | darkhorse28 |
We’re actually 13th in the prem for net spending over the last 5 years.., that blew my mind.
We spent £132 million, obviously mostly over this season, and 7 established clubs spent less, Everton over 5 years spent £27 million net,, and have made a profit in most recent seasons.
How they’ve managed to compete is a modern day miracle.
We need to get much better value in our talent ID going forwards, we haven’t got maximum value for that money, relative to other clubs at this level.., Mitoma £3 million, Mbeuno £7 million, Huijsen £12 million, and scores of example where clubs have bought well, at lower prices than us, for much better quality.
I know we all believe, and buy into the dream, but if we’re to breath life into that shared dream, that we can be a top club and in Europe again, there’s a lot of things we need to do much better.
We can’t focus on EFL players and be successful at this level, it’s just not possible anymore.
https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-ma [Post edited 15 Apr 11:00]
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| Net Spending on 10:47 - Apr 15 with 3917 views | _clive_baker_ |
It’s not surprising given what we spent this season and having started from a low base. We’ve not had the opportunity to sell yet, which is obviously an equal part of the net spend equation. In time if you become established in the premier league you would think we would look to develop these young players, and our own, some of which will outgrow us and we cash in and buy a couple more. That’s the model in a nutshell.
It’s probably more appropriate to look at the ‘book value’ of the players clubs have signed relative to the cost, but that’s a bit more subjective until those values are realised in a sale. |  | | |
| Net Spending on 11:00 - Apr 15 with 3854 views | darkhorse28 |
| Net Spending on 10:47 - Apr 15 by _clive_baker_ |
It’s not surprising given what we spent this season and having started from a low base. We’ve not had the opportunity to sell yet, which is obviously an equal part of the net spend equation. In time if you become established in the premier league you would think we would look to develop these young players, and our own, some of which will outgrow us and we cash in and buy a couple more. That’s the model in a nutshell.
It’s probably more appropriate to look at the ‘book value’ of the players clubs have signed relative to the cost, but that’s a bit more subjective until those values are realised in a sale. |
Yeah, completely. The model breaks with relegation, your best young talent is sold (typically) and often not at full book value, and you’re left with probably in our case, a still very talented EFL squad, but likely not good enough for these levels, and not with any decent re-sale potential.
It’s about value ultimately from an investment point of view.
With quite a few of our investments, they have a much lower re-sale value, and some we’d really struggle to move on.
That’s a challenge, because even if we get the talent ID right in the future we have less buying power the next couple of seasons, under governance.
We need to seriously uncover a couple of foreign gems (the English market is so expensive) or develop a Cameron Humphrey’s into a £30 million player etc
I don’t think we can match the other clubs if we’re paying over the odds for English based talent and hope to compete.
Cameron hopefully will get a chance next season, that would be a massive positive. | | | |
| Net Spending on 11:00 - Apr 15 with 3849 views | itfcjoe |
Our net spend is high because in that period we have had no assets to sell, that effectively has changed now and we can begin to trade as opposed to just build a portfolio |  |
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| Net Spending on 11:05 - Apr 15 with 3792 views | only_one_sir_bobby |
I see you've now started a new thread to preach this rhetoric. So here goes again.
While there’s definitely truth in the need to improve our talent ID — especially internationally — I think there’s still a big chunk of context missing here.
We’re 13th in net spend over 5 years, yes. But we’ve only been in the Premier League for five minutes. That figure is a result of one big season of spend to catch up after years in League One and the Championship. It’s not a sign of us overspending for five years straight — it’s a reflection of how far behind we were and how quickly we’ve had to accelerate just to survive.
Comparing us to Everton misses some key facts. They’ve had nearly 20 years of top-flight investment, a legacy squad, and existing international scouting infrastructure. Even with that, they’re clinging on, facing points deductions and a financial mess. Their situation isn't one to envy — it's more of a cautionary tale than a miracle.
The examples of Mitoma, Mbeumo, Huijsen are great — but for every one of those, there are plenty of flops. Brighton also had a decade-long investment in global scouting before that model paid off. We’re not there yet. And while we should absolutely build toward that kind of recruitment, it doesn’t happen overnight.
Writing off EFL players is harsh too — plenty of current Premier League stars came through the lower leagues. Our squad was built on what was available, trusted, and within PSR limits. It may not all have landed, but it was a rational strategy for a club that just got promoted faster than expected.
This season was always going to be a foundation-laying year. Promotion came ahead of schedule. The squad is adjusting, the club is growing — and expecting us to have elite-level scouting, recruitment, results, and resale value instantly is unrealistic.
Let’s absolutely demand improvement. Let’s learn and evolve. But let’s also not lose sight of how far we’ve come — and how much patience a proper, sustainable build takes. | | | |
| Net Spending on 11:08 - Apr 15 with 3771 views | darkhorse28 |
| Net Spending on 11:00 - Apr 15 by itfcjoe |
Our net spend is high because in that period we have had no assets to sell, that effectively has changed now and we can begin to trade as opposed to just build a portfolio |
That’s true. The secret though is to book a profit, and build from there. That’s where staying up is so important, and how the Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford models have worked.
They spend less than £10 million on individual players, and develop them in to £80 million players, Mktoma, Mbeuno, Huijsen, and Brightons list alone runs in to dozens.
They buy incredibly well, get good value, sell high and build. Obviously you need to stay up, which is increasingly hard.
We have Delap, and I’m not sure I can name another player, even if we stayed up, we could sell for a profit. Maybe Hutchinson, in time certainly.
Our best player Cajuste is a loan, and Muric, Greaves, Clarke, Ogbenne, Sammie, O’Shea, all have the same or probably lower book values even if we stayed up, nobody is rushing to buy them at this level.
Not to say they aren’t great at EFL level, but obviously that’s not where we’d get maximum re-sale value.
We do need to talent ID better than this season, if we get up again. Find some of those foreign gems that clubs no bigger than us, and this season at least, with no bigger resources than us.
We’ve had some great foreign talent over the decades, I think that’s the only way we’ll compete .., but just my opinion. | | | |
| Net Spending on 11:13 - Apr 15 with 3681 views | positivity |
you just make the same mistakes over and over again, which were comprehensively shot down in the last thread, so you've decided to regurgitate the same nonsense here.
what were clubs building on?
where were everton at the end of 19/20? 12th in the premier league
where were we? 11th in league one (just below gillingham)
you do realise that free transfers and loans often cost a premium in signing on fees and wages?
might be interesting to add in the wage spend in that time too...
how we've managed to compete is a modern day miracle! | |
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| Net Spending on 11:18 - Apr 15 with 3644 views | ReusersTown |
| Net Spending on 11:08 - Apr 15 by darkhorse28 |
That’s true. The secret though is to book a profit, and build from there. That’s where staying up is so important, and how the Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford models have worked.
They spend less than £10 million on individual players, and develop them in to £80 million players, Mktoma, Mbeuno, Huijsen, and Brightons list alone runs in to dozens.
They buy incredibly well, get good value, sell high and build. Obviously you need to stay up, which is increasingly hard.
We have Delap, and I’m not sure I can name another player, even if we stayed up, we could sell for a profit. Maybe Hutchinson, in time certainly.
Our best player Cajuste is a loan, and Muric, Greaves, Clarke, Ogbenne, Sammie, O’Shea, all have the same or probably lower book values even if we stayed up, nobody is rushing to buy them at this level.
Not to say they aren’t great at EFL level, but obviously that’s not where we’d get maximum re-sale value.
We do need to talent ID better than this season, if we get up again. Find some of those foreign gems that clubs no bigger than us, and this season at least, with no bigger resources than us.
We’ve had some great foreign talent over the decades, I think that’s the only way we’ll compete .., but just my opinion. |
If you're going to spout rubbish at least let it be accurate. Both Fulham and Bournemouth required a bounce back into the Championship in order to establish themselves.in Bournemouth's case they got lucky that Solanke's development stalled in his first year whereas we are going to have to lose Delap as he's been too good. | | | |
| Net Spending on 11:18 - Apr 15 with 3640 views | iamatractorboy |
| Net Spending on 11:00 - Apr 15 by itfcjoe |
Our net spend is high because in that period we have had no assets to sell, that effectively has changed now and we can begin to trade as opposed to just build a portfolio |
Exactly. It's like comparing a billionaire with a 50 bedroom mansion and a first time buyer. The billionaire sold his private island to pay for his mansion. Net spend = zero. First time buyer, net spend = £250k. | | | |
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| Net Spending on 11:19 - Apr 15 with 3631 views | Mullet |
Blimey, have you been asleep for 15 years? Football has massively changed exponentially season upon season.
We have been festering in Div 3, the academy, the staffing, the stadium etc all needed massive upgrades. We had no business being in the Prem this season, let alone suddenly competing with teams hoarding £100m’s year upon year.
What exactly would you expect us to do? It’d be brilliant if we had stayed up, the club would be able to close the gap. It’s important we go up next season and try and beat the odds again. However it’s not certain and there is loads of work to do. |  |
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| Net Spending on 11:21 - Apr 15 with 3611 views | Guthrum |
Look at the gross expenditure Everton have run through in arriving at that figure. £400m, wasn't it?
As others have pointed out, we do not yet have any sales to offset our spending. |  |
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| Net Spending on 11:21 - Apr 15 with 3604 views | surreyblue |
I wonder what the positions would be like if you also subtracted the value of each squad at the end of the 19/20 season. I imagine our squad value at that point would be <£5m, whereas most of those that are below us would comfortably be 100m+. | | | |
| Net Spending on 11:26 - Apr 15 with 3556 views | NthQldITFC |
Most Town fans I know are comfortable about relegation and the continued evolution of our well-run and well-funded club, as we've leapfrogged (leaptfrog?) above so many clubs who have become entrenched in a death spiral in the Championship.
A step too far getting promoted last year? Well, you wouldn't refuse the challenge even on a purely sporting basis, but additionally the funding boost we've had leaves us in a very strong position to push on again, this time with the benefits that a club just up from League One had no chance of making use of.
Certainly no need for constant negativity, on our behalf anyway. |  |
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| Net Spending on 11:35 - Apr 15 with 3481 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Net Spending on 11:08 - Apr 15 by darkhorse28 |
That’s true. The secret though is to book a profit, and build from there. That’s where staying up is so important, and how the Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford models have worked.
They spend less than £10 million on individual players, and develop them in to £80 million players, Mktoma, Mbeuno, Huijsen, and Brightons list alone runs in to dozens.
They buy incredibly well, get good value, sell high and build. Obviously you need to stay up, which is increasingly hard.
We have Delap, and I’m not sure I can name another player, even if we stayed up, we could sell for a profit. Maybe Hutchinson, in time certainly.
Our best player Cajuste is a loan, and Muric, Greaves, Clarke, Ogbenne, Sammie, O’Shea, all have the same or probably lower book values even if we stayed up, nobody is rushing to buy them at this level.
Not to say they aren’t great at EFL level, but obviously that’s not where we’d get maximum re-sale value.
We do need to talent ID better than this season, if we get up again. Find some of those foreign gems that clubs no bigger than us, and this season at least, with no bigger resources than us.
We’ve had some great foreign talent over the decades, I think that’s the only way we’ll compete .., but just my opinion. |
Forest. 22 players signed over £10million. Current team has £40million, £35millon and £30million buys in it
Brighton. 31 players signed over £10million. 15 more than £20million. 7 more than £30million.
Bournemouth. 31 players over £10m. 10 over £20m. Record £37m
Fulham. 22 over £10m, 9 over £20m, 3 over £30m
Brentford. Slightly more impressive, 13 over £10m and 6 over £20m.
Absolutely blows us away.
Ipswich. 6 over £10m, 2 over £20m. 9 above £5m in our entire history! |  | | |
| Net Spending on 11:40 - Apr 15 with 3445 views | itfcjoe |
| Net Spending on 11:08 - Apr 15 by darkhorse28 |
That’s true. The secret though is to book a profit, and build from there. That’s where staying up is so important, and how the Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford models have worked.
They spend less than £10 million on individual players, and develop them in to £80 million players, Mktoma, Mbeuno, Huijsen, and Brightons list alone runs in to dozens.
They buy incredibly well, get good value, sell high and build. Obviously you need to stay up, which is increasingly hard.
We have Delap, and I’m not sure I can name another player, even if we stayed up, we could sell for a profit. Maybe Hutchinson, in time certainly.
Our best player Cajuste is a loan, and Muric, Greaves, Clarke, Ogbenne, Sammie, O’Shea, all have the same or probably lower book values even if we stayed up, nobody is rushing to buy them at this level.
Not to say they aren’t great at EFL level, but obviously that’s not where we’d get maximum re-sale value.
We do need to talent ID better than this season, if we get up again. Find some of those foreign gems that clubs no bigger than us, and this season at least, with no bigger resources than us.
We’ve had some great foreign talent over the decades, I think that’s the only way we’ll compete .., but just my opinion. |
There are players like George Hirst and Leif Davis we could sell for huge profits, or Luke Woolfenden for that matter. Players like Al-Hamadi, Clarke, Broadhead and Chaplin could provide a profit currently if we wanted to sell too.
I guess the players we signed across last 2 windows need to be looked at over life of their contract and all are on 4-5 year deals so you'd imagine there are potentially big profits to be made on Omari, Greaves, Jaden, O'Shea with their profile and maybe less so on Szmodics, Ogbene, Palmer, Townsend with theirs.
I don't think anyone thinks going a bit more foreign is the way to go, and you'd assume that is in the club too, but we were in a position where the squad was just so underpowered for what we needed, so went for probably a higher floor approach to recruitment - and like point above we can only really see how it works over the next couple of years....but with the squad at a higher level now, it should be easier to bring in a few foreign players and allow them the time they need to settle by going into this squad. | |
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| Net Spending on 11:55 - Apr 15 with 3332 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Net Spending on 11:40 - Apr 15 by itfcjoe |
There are players like George Hirst and Leif Davis we could sell for huge profits, or Luke Woolfenden for that matter. Players like Al-Hamadi, Clarke, Broadhead and Chaplin could provide a profit currently if we wanted to sell too.
I guess the players we signed across last 2 windows need to be looked at over life of their contract and all are on 4-5 year deals so you'd imagine there are potentially big profits to be made on Omari, Greaves, Jaden, O'Shea with their profile and maybe less so on Szmodics, Ogbene, Palmer, Townsend with theirs.
I don't think anyone thinks going a bit more foreign is the way to go, and you'd assume that is in the club too, but we were in a position where the squad was just so underpowered for what we needed, so went for probably a higher floor approach to recruitment - and like point above we can only really see how it works over the next couple of years....but with the squad at a higher level now, it should be easier to bring in a few foreign players and allow them the time they need to settle by going into this squad. |
I think it's also important to say that not every player has to make a profit to be deemed a success or a decent signing. If someone like Szmodics scores 15 goals next season and we net £150m for promotion, it is £9m well spent. | | | |
| Net Spending on 12:06 - Apr 15 with 3214 views | thebooks |
I know others have pointed a few things out already, but this is a really disingenuous take.
- The cost of players has increase exponentially over 5 years
- We had a League One quality squad three seasons ago: we are starting from scratch more than all the other teams. Of course we’ve made virtually nothing in sales: our players have been average at best.
- Finding players like Mitoma isn’t a case of assigning your scout to “Asia” and waiting for a list of players to roll in; again, we’ve had zero international scouting at PR for decades, let alone in recent seasons. |  | | |
| Net Spending on 12:13 - Apr 15 with 3180 views | PhilTWTD |
| Net Spending on 11:40 - Apr 15 by itfcjoe |
There are players like George Hirst and Leif Davis we could sell for huge profits, or Luke Woolfenden for that matter. Players like Al-Hamadi, Clarke, Broadhead and Chaplin could provide a profit currently if we wanted to sell too.
I guess the players we signed across last 2 windows need to be looked at over life of their contract and all are on 4-5 year deals so you'd imagine there are potentially big profits to be made on Omari, Greaves, Jaden, O'Shea with their profile and maybe less so on Szmodics, Ogbene, Palmer, Townsend with theirs.
I don't think anyone thinks going a bit more foreign is the way to go, and you'd assume that is in the club too, but we were in a position where the squad was just so underpowered for what we needed, so went for probably a higher floor approach to recruitment - and like point above we can only really see how it works over the next couple of years....but with the squad at a higher level now, it should be easier to bring in a few foreign players and allow them the time they need to settle by going into this squad. |
I think the club definitely needs to set its sights more widely, there are only so many players in the UK who can play at Premier League level and by setting sights so narrowly we're severely limiting our ability to sign players who can do what we need them to do. We saw last summer we, to a greater degree, signed the best of the Championship and, as it stands, that hasn't proved good enough for this division.
Fair point re last summer's signings not being judged on this year alone, but I'd agree that not many would be likely to move on for more than we signed them for this summer. Not sure any of the players we already had, other than perhaps Axel, will get a Premier League move. Davis seems less likely than would have been the case a year ago had we not gone up. |  | | |
| Net Spending on 12:21 - Apr 15 with 3097 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Did you ever consider being a light horse? |  |
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| Net Spending on 12:23 - Apr 15 with 3087 views | Herbivore |
| Net Spending on 11:08 - Apr 15 by darkhorse28 |
That’s true. The secret though is to book a profit, and build from there. That’s where staying up is so important, and how the Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford models have worked.
They spend less than £10 million on individual players, and develop them in to £80 million players, Mktoma, Mbeuno, Huijsen, and Brightons list alone runs in to dozens.
They buy incredibly well, get good value, sell high and build. Obviously you need to stay up, which is increasingly hard.
We have Delap, and I’m not sure I can name another player, even if we stayed up, we could sell for a profit. Maybe Hutchinson, in time certainly.
Our best player Cajuste is a loan, and Muric, Greaves, Clarke, Ogbenne, Sammie, O’Shea, all have the same or probably lower book values even if we stayed up, nobody is rushing to buy them at this level.
Not to say they aren’t great at EFL level, but obviously that’s not where we’d get maximum re-sale value.
We do need to talent ID better than this season, if we get up again. Find some of those foreign gems that clubs no bigger than us, and this season at least, with no bigger resources than us.
We’ve had some great foreign talent over the decades, I think that’s the only way we’ll compete .., but just my opinion. |
Cherry picking individual signings is all well and good, but as others have pointed out the sides you use as examples of good recruitment have also spent hundreds of millions on their squads over the last 5-10 years, more than we've spent in our entire history. They have multiple £20m plus players in their squads, it's not like every player is signed for (relative) peanuts and sold for a huge sum. And they also have big wage bills, the cost of a deal isn't the fee alone.
To get to the point of unearthing these gems though takes time and investment. These sides are years and years ahead of us in that regard and we're playing catch up. Criticising us for not emulating Brighton in our first transfer window back in the top flight is daft when it's taken them a decade to get to this point, and they have spent very big money over that time. |  |
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| Net Spending on 12:32 - Apr 15 with 3042 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Net Spending on 11:08 - Apr 15 by darkhorse28 |
That’s true. The secret though is to book a profit, and build from there. That’s where staying up is so important, and how the Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford models have worked.
They spend less than £10 million on individual players, and develop them in to £80 million players, Mktoma, Mbeuno, Huijsen, and Brightons list alone runs in to dozens.
They buy incredibly well, get good value, sell high and build. Obviously you need to stay up, which is increasingly hard.
We have Delap, and I’m not sure I can name another player, even if we stayed up, we could sell for a profit. Maybe Hutchinson, in time certainly.
Our best player Cajuste is a loan, and Muric, Greaves, Clarke, Ogbenne, Sammie, O’Shea, all have the same or probably lower book values even if we stayed up, nobody is rushing to buy them at this level.
Not to say they aren’t great at EFL level, but obviously that’s not where we’d get maximum re-sale value.
We do need to talent ID better than this season, if we get up again. Find some of those foreign gems that clubs no bigger than us, and this season at least, with no bigger resources than us.
We’ve had some great foreign talent over the decades, I think that’s the only way we’ll compete .., but just my opinion. |
I generally do agree with your wider point, and appreciate it’s only one player, but seeing as you’ve mentioned Mitoma 2-3 times, he was signed by Brighton and loaned straight to their ‘feeder’ club in Belgium, who play a similar brand of football, and albeit playing in Belgium, was tasked with learning English ahead of his move to Brighton the following year.
Brighton also did the same with Denis Undav. Signed from Union SG, stayed on loan there for 6 months, and then made his way in to the Brighton side the following season.
We clearly don’t have anything like that, so we’d be looking at any foreign signing to hit the ground running. |  |
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| Net Spending on 12:55 - Apr 15 with 2860 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Net Spending on 11:00 - Apr 15 by itfcjoe |
Our net spend is high because in that period we have had no assets to sell, that effectively has changed now and we can begin to trade as opposed to just build a portfolio |
Quite. In the example of Everton, they’ve sold for €312M over the last 5 years. €166M over the last 2. It’s no wonder they can have a net surplus. |  |
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| Net Spending on 13:33 - Apr 15 with 2707 views | Smoresy |
Everton segment is distracting imo. They exceeded max permitted spending on their playing squad quite recently and were placed on the naughty step for it. Think the net spending point has been well-countered in replies.
I agree with your central point that talent ID, scouting infrastructure, must improve and grow quickly if we're to make the next step. Brentford were a small Championship club, in many respects unattractive, when they were able to find and sign real quality from both abroad and the UK, all for fees of £5m or below. Their location is ideal, which surely helped with the latter part. Hopefully we may close this expertise gap at pace. | | | |
| Net Spending on 13:38 - Apr 15 with 2678 views | Guthrum |
| Net Spending on 12:21 - Apr 15 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Did you ever consider being a light horse? |
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| Net Spending on 14:03 - Apr 15 with 2568 views | Herbivore |
| Net Spending on 13:33 - Apr 15 by Smoresy |
Everton segment is distracting imo. They exceeded max permitted spending on their playing squad quite recently and were placed on the naughty step for it. Think the net spending point has been well-countered in replies.
I agree with your central point that talent ID, scouting infrastructure, must improve and grow quickly if we're to make the next step. Brentford were a small Championship club, in many respects unattractive, when they were able to find and sign real quality from both abroad and the UK, all for fees of £5m or below. Their location is ideal, which surely helped with the latter part. Hopefully we may close this expertise gap at pace. |
Brentford also had a very hefty wage bill by Championship standards when they were building towards promotion. Harder to do that now with more stringent PSR rules at play. | |
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| Net Spending on 14:16 - Apr 15 with 2523 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Net Spending on 14:03 - Apr 15 by Herbivore |
Brentford also had a very hefty wage bill by Championship standards when they were building towards promotion. Harder to do that now with more stringent PSR rules at play. |
Yes, and people tend to ignore wage costs when making 'observations' regarding our PSR risk.
Reputedly the lowest in the EPL (by some margin compared to most), and not significantly higher than the top paying Championship clubs. | | | |
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