| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out 23:10 - Apr 20 with 2649 views | 3_5_2 |
Our left hand did look weak today. Appreciate they were playing v Saka but surely we have to double up on him ? 5 at the back without the ball. Lots of teams do it
Townsend being out a blow too.
How many injuries have we had this season ? Way too many
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 23:16 - Apr 20 with 2388 views | Garv |
If we double up on on the right winger the opposition will just find a way to hurt us down the left. Albeit Tuanzebe can cope with an onslaught a bit better. Teams will find a way against us sadly.
We were relying on Jack Clarke being our forward thrust first half playing the inverted winger role, which he can't do if he's defending all the time. Had Hutchinson been playing we may have been able to be a bit more attacking down the right and let Clarke do more defensively to help Leif.
Broadhead injured too. McKenna didn't sound confident about Townsend at all, makes Davis' decision to make that tackle seem even more stupid. |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 23:19 - Apr 20 with 2368 views | bournemouthblue |
The 4231 we play it, is way too attacking against sides like this, let's be honest about it |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 23:20 - Apr 20 with 2362 views | FromReuserWithLove |
Poor Leif has had a shocker of a season bless him. I'm sure he'll learn a lot from it though. |  | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 23:52 - Apr 20 with 2239 views | warky_1970 |
The experts know what they are talking about.
Shocking prem player. |  | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 00:23 - Apr 21 with 2177 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 23:52 - Apr 20 by warky_1970 |
The experts know what they are talking about.
Shocking prem player. |
I have to say, there are quite a few posters on this board who sound like they've never watched football. You seem to be the cheerleader. |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 00:54 - Apr 21 with 2112 views | warky_1970 |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 00:23 - Apr 21 by Cheltenham_Blue |
I have to say, there are quite a few posters on this board who sound like they've never watched football. You seem to be the cheerleader. |
Go on. Explain.
He was wonderful in league one. Did a decent job in the championship but is nothing but woeful in the Prem. I’m not alone with this judgement. | | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 01:09 - Apr 21 with 2051 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 00:54 - Apr 21 by warky_1970 |
Go on. Explain.
He was wonderful in league one. Did a decent job in the championship but is nothing but woeful in the Prem. I’m not alone with this judgement. |
Did a decent job in the championship is a funny way of saying had a record breaking season in the championship.
Budgie me thinks |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 01:27 - Apr 21 with 2006 views | Chris_ITFC |
Leif has had constant change in front of him, with no real left-sided player protecting him, with the LCB alternating constantly too, and has all his attacking responsibilities on top.
It’s a HUGE ask for him, it’s clearly an area teams will target (and did last season too - Leeds away, WBA away). So it shouldn’t be any surprise it doesn’t always come off.
Ironically, we also concede lots of goals down the right without Tuanzebe (Johnson, Clarke, Godfrey), and they don’t the above challenges, yet that never gets mentioned. |  | | |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:10 - Apr 21 with 1760 views | itfcjoe |
The left hand side was weak because Arteta attacked that side relentlessly and we were overrun. Odegaard just drifted out there time after time and no one knew who was supposed to pick him up and he kept being passed around between players but in those split seconds where he was being passed around they exploited us.
Arsenal just moved us about so well and our assymetrixal formation was just tore a new one because the gap between Davis and Clarke when defending couldn’t be closed effectively.
To think the issue was the left back yesterday and not the system is laughable - it’s the same way that when Clarke got done a few times last year because he was asked to go 1v1 against Mavididi, Summerville, etc and got beat that it was all his fault - systems leave vulnerabilities and in the PL ours are being brutalised |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:31 - Apr 21 with 1660 views | Dubtractor |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:10 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe |
The left hand side was weak because Arteta attacked that side relentlessly and we were overrun. Odegaard just drifted out there time after time and no one knew who was supposed to pick him up and he kept being passed around between players but in those split seconds where he was being passed around they exploited us.
Arsenal just moved us about so well and our assymetrixal formation was just tore a new one because the gap between Davis and Clarke when defending couldn’t be closed effectively.
To think the issue was the left back yesterday and not the system is laughable - it’s the same way that when Clarke got done a few times last year because he was asked to go 1v1 against Mavididi, Summerville, etc and got beat that it was all his fault - systems leave vulnerabilities and in the PL ours are being brutalised |
Exactly this, and the reference to Clarke last season is spot on too.
Much easier for people to pick one player and blame though, rather than understand tactical details.
We simply couldn't cope with the speed of Arsenal's passing and movement, and that wasn't about one player. |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:46 - Apr 21 with 1582 views | bsw72 |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:31 - Apr 21 by Dubtractor |
Exactly this, and the reference to Clarke last season is spot on too.
Much easier for people to pick one player and blame though, rather than understand tactical details.
We simply couldn't cope with the speed of Arsenal's passing and movement, and that wasn't about one player. |
People look to blame our players and coaching staff for formation and style when the basic truth is man for man none of our starting XI would be good enough to get on Arsenal’s bench let alone starting XI.
Credit to the team for never giving up on what was a brutal afternoon for them. |  | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:57 - Apr 21 with 1529 views | textbackup |
If we use Leif as an attacking outlet it’s leaves the left side an easy target doesn’t it.
In L1/Champ we could get away with it, but as we’ve found out of 32 games, it hasn’t worked in the PL. |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:58 - Apr 21 with 1523 views | itfcjoe |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:31 - Apr 21 by Dubtractor |
Exactly this, and the reference to Clarke last season is spot on too.
Much easier for people to pick one player and blame though, rather than understand tactical details.
We simply couldn't cope with the speed of Arsenal's passing and movement, and that wasn't about one player. |
If you read the board you’d think Leif is our worst player and Jens Cajuste our best player
I don’t mean to try and dig out Jens but more to provide a bit of balance - but if our left side is weak where is the CM that covers that side? Massimo was so secure and switched on defensively last season; Cajuste really isn’t the right profile for how we play where our CMs need to be more interested on what we do if we were to lose the ball rather than what they can do with it. | |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 08:02 - Apr 21 with 1503 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:46 - Apr 21 by bsw72 |
People look to blame our players and coaching staff for formation and style when the basic truth is man for man none of our starting XI would be good enough to get on Arsenal’s bench let alone starting XI.
Credit to the team for never giving up on what was a brutal afternoon for them. |
System, quality of players, individuals? There are elements of all three. Last October/November it was obvious to many that we weren't showing enough respect, especially at home, to other PL teams. We were so dominant in L1 and to quite a large extent in the Champ, and I think even across the coaching staff and players, there has been a view that we play the same way, in the same system. But you can't do taht in the PL.
Leif generally plays about 10 yards more advanced on the left than Axel does on the right. I don't know if that is Leif's decision, or whether he is told to do that. In L1 and often in the Champ, he is quick enough to get back into a defensive position if we lose possession. In the PL, the opposition wingers are just as quick as Leif, and he can't get back. So to play that way is a mistake. You lose possession, you leave a hole, and PL teams have players who just take advantage - we have seen it so many times this season, and I am staggered that we haven't learned the lesson - we do it away, and look so much more solid, but at home we just leave ourselves so vulnerable. Leif hasn't become a bad player overnight, but the way we are playing him makes it look like it. |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 08:07 - Apr 21 with 1483 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 00:23 - Apr 21 by Cheltenham_Blue |
I have to say, there are quite a few posters on this board who sound like they've never watched football. You seem to be the cheerleader. |
So you're saying that echoing what the experts point out are the views of someone who knows nothing about football?
It's more a case that your blue-tinted glasses distort your views. Pundits, experts, call them what you like are knowledgeable, have played the fame at the highest level and generally say what they see. |  | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 08:10 - Apr 21 with 1460 views | Herbivore |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:58 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe |
If you read the board you’d think Leif is our worst player and Jens Cajuste our best player
I don’t mean to try and dig out Jens but more to provide a bit of balance - but if our left side is weak where is the CM that covers that side? Massimo was so secure and switched on defensively last season; Cajuste really isn’t the right profile for how we play where our CMs need to be more interested on what we do if we were to lose the ball rather than what they can do with it. |
This is a very good point. Cajuste is a quality player but I don't think he offers defensively what we need at times. Last season, Leif had Burgess behind him, Broadhead in front, and Luongo covering from the centre. Those four worked brilliantly together positionally, with Burgess covering well behind when needed, and Luongo moving across and Broadhead dropping in. That meant we only occasionally got exposed down that side by teams who could break on us really quickly, otherwise we used our shape to ensure that Leif bombing forward was a great outlet that didn't leave us over-exposed at the back. A combination of different personnel (often changing because of injuries too) in those other positions plus more sides who can break quickly has left us more exposed down that side this season. That said, we've been exposed plenty down the other flank as well, partly because of missing Burns and Ogbene who provide an outlet as well as defensive cover, partly because Prem teams and players are just so much better than we're used to. The constant digging out of particular players by some of our fans is incredibly tedious and mostly unfair. |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 08:18 - Apr 21 with 1377 views | OldFart71 |
Several teams this season have targeted that side and in the main had a lot of success. Especially sadly when Lief has been in that position. Noted on MOTD 2 that it was questioned why McKenna hasn't changed our style of play as we are too open. I agree, but then you need the players to play that style. Against teams like Arsenal and Manchester City they just keep coming at you and I doubt results would be that different. I do think when we bought Philogene it wasn't necessarily a mistake in that he won't be an asset. More a mistake in that we needed another midfielder and when looking ahead to next season that will definitely be the case with Phillips, Cajuste and probably Loungo all moving on. We need a midfielder capable of both carrying the ball forward and helping out the defence. Only a personal opinion, but I think we should be playing 4-3-3. | | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 08:23 - Apr 21 with 1344 views | bsw72 |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 08:02 - Apr 21 by LegendofthePhoenix |
System, quality of players, individuals? There are elements of all three. Last October/November it was obvious to many that we weren't showing enough respect, especially at home, to other PL teams. We were so dominant in L1 and to quite a large extent in the Champ, and I think even across the coaching staff and players, there has been a view that we play the same way, in the same system. But you can't do taht in the PL.
Leif generally plays about 10 yards more advanced on the left than Axel does on the right. I don't know if that is Leif's decision, or whether he is told to do that. In L1 and often in the Champ, he is quick enough to get back into a defensive position if we lose possession. In the PL, the opposition wingers are just as quick as Leif, and he can't get back. So to play that way is a mistake. You lose possession, you leave a hole, and PL teams have players who just take advantage - we have seen it so many times this season, and I am staggered that we haven't learned the lesson - we do it away, and look so much more solid, but at home we just leave ourselves so vulnerable. Leif hasn't become a bad player overnight, but the way we are playing him makes it look like it. |
I don’t think Davis is a particularly good tackler and he lacks defensive positional awareness which he could get away with in the Championship. Compare him to Tuanzebe and Townsend, both are better tacklers and take up better positions when the team are under pressure, while Davis more often gets caught on the wrong side of the attacker, even when he is not pushing further on.
He gives us a lot more going forward than he does at the back and he often occupied the opposition right flank as such in the last two years but playing at this level his attacking ability is limited and his defensive frailties are more exposed, just like they were against Leeds last season. I’m not sure playing him deeper would benefit him or us, so we try and get the most of his skillset by playing him slightly further up. | | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 08:32 - Apr 21 with 1259 views | itfcjoe |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 08:10 - Apr 21 by Herbivore |
This is a very good point. Cajuste is a quality player but I don't think he offers defensively what we need at times. Last season, Leif had Burgess behind him, Broadhead in front, and Luongo covering from the centre. Those four worked brilliantly together positionally, with Burgess covering well behind when needed, and Luongo moving across and Broadhead dropping in. That meant we only occasionally got exposed down that side by teams who could break on us really quickly, otherwise we used our shape to ensure that Leif bombing forward was a great outlet that didn't leave us over-exposed at the back. A combination of different personnel (often changing because of injuries too) in those other positions plus more sides who can break quickly has left us more exposed down that side this season. That said, we've been exposed plenty down the other flank as well, partly because of missing Burns and Ogbene who provide an outlet as well as defensive cover, partly because Prem teams and players are just so much better than we're used to. The constant digging out of particular players by some of our fans is incredibly tedious and mostly unfair. |
We play a style that is finely tuned but a real high wire act - it’s even more noticeable at this level but all 10 outfielders have to be on it every second of the game. It is 10 individual battles taking place every second of the game and often the last issue is highlighted but we’ve been dragged out of position and one player is left holding the baby.
Watch Odegaard in the first 15 minutes - he destroys us and every one of their players uses him as their centre piece to play off and round and are all so clever and move so well that it’s impossible to keep up with at times.
Arteta did a job on McKenna yesterday, probably as much as anyone has all season | |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 09:07 - Apr 21 with 1145 views | BloomBlue |
Axel looked comfortable yesterday because he had Johnson helping to support him when Arse attacked. Even to the point where Johnson was an outlet for Axel, allowing us to change defence into attack. Leif doesn't have that support on the left
Not trying to single out Clarke, but twice in that first half he just hoofed the ball away across field aimlessly, which allowed Arse to collect the ball easily and attach again. Leif is expected to defend then attack, and then defend all in the space of a few minutes. There isn't a defender in the PL who can do that without support from others in the team.
TAA had the same problem a few seasons ago when Liverpool expected him to be defender, attacker, defender all in a few minutes and teams targeted the gap behind him. The so called experts blamed him then. |  | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 09:08 - Apr 21 with 1140 views | waveneyblue |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 23:52 - Apr 20 by warky_1970 |
The experts know what they are talking about.
Shocking prem player. |
Don't you rate Davis?
You haven't mentioned it before. |  | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 09:14 - Apr 21 with 1105 views | Blaggers12 |
When we got promoted plenty on here were touting Davis for England, even the EADT were doing it; but every knowledgeable fan of any other PL club spent this summer telling me how Davis would get exposed at this level, and so it has proved to be. He is suspect at defending, the evidence is there to see, but I do see that he can improve. | | | |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 10:03 - Apr 21 with 1000 views | Radlett_blue |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 23:19 - Apr 20 by bournemouthblue |
The 4231 we play it, is way too attacking against sides like this, let's be honest about it |
Indeed, Leif's great strength last season was the benefit he gave us in attack. We've conceded umpteen goals on the counter this season, often because he's been out of position, but is that down to him or down to McKenna not asking him to play differently? |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 10:21 - Apr 21 with 954 views | cbower |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 07:10 - Apr 21 by itfcjoe |
The left hand side was weak because Arteta attacked that side relentlessly and we were overrun. Odegaard just drifted out there time after time and no one knew who was supposed to pick him up and he kept being passed around between players but in those split seconds where he was being passed around they exploited us.
Arsenal just moved us about so well and our assymetrixal formation was just tore a new one because the gap between Davis and Clarke when defending couldn’t be closed effectively.
To think the issue was the left back yesterday and not the system is laughable - it’s the same way that when Clarke got done a few times last year because he was asked to go 1v1 against Mavididi, Summerville, etc and got beat that it was all his fault - systems leave vulnerabilities and in the PL ours are being brutalised |
Totally agree with this Joe. The question arises, however, as to why KM persists with 4231? Yes, his player options are restricted by injury but he has consistently rejected 3 in midfield (although Davis sending off forced his hand 2nd half yesterday and we looked more solid even with 10 men). Arsenal simply passed it around Johnson, Enciso and Clarke in the first half and Clarke's attempts at pressing left Davis exposed and Arsenal players in acres of space to run at our back line. Morsy and Cajuste were overrun (as has happened throughout the season) yet KM, as Ashley Williams said on MotD last night, has pretty much stuck with the system he played in the Championship and it has been exposed. The warning signs were there last season when Leeds and Southampton (at PR) exposed us. I hope he has learned that against better opposition, you need to adapt or sink. |  |
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| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 10:24 - Apr 21 with 944 views | textbackup |
| That’s the 4th time this season MOTD have dug Leif out on 10:03 - Apr 21 by Radlett_blue |
Indeed, Leif's great strength last season was the benefit he gave us in attack. We've conceded umpteen goals on the counter this season, often because he's been out of position, but is that down to him or down to McKenna not asking him to play differently? |
KM has to take the brunt of it for me, I think many would have known that getting Leif up the pitch would be easy pickings for PL teams down that side.
Was he expecting Greaves to defend better on those 1 on 1 situations? Was he hoping the midfield would cover better?
Because he would have absolutely expected PL teams to easily pick up on the space available to them.
Just been a mess really hasn’t it | |
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