| For all the shouting about Labour 22:51 - May 2 with 1949 views | Guthrum |
Currently the number of Reform councillors has gone up by virtually exactly the same as the Conservatives have gone down. Fairly clear where the movement is |  |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 23:42 - May 2 with 1494 views | redrickstuhaart |
Toys have been thrown out of prams. And people with a particular viewpoint have said "sod em all- lets vote for someone who will stick it up em".
Which is scarily close to Trump.
And will have similar ramifications. They think that Farage will go for the other people in order to benefit them. In due course, they will find that Farage considers them "other people". |  | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 01:19 - May 3 with 1414 views | reusersfreekicks |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 23:42 - May 2 by redrickstuhaart |
Toys have been thrown out of prams. And people with a particular viewpoint have said "sod em all- lets vote for someone who will stick it up em".
Which is scarily close to Trump.
And will have similar ramifications. They think that Farage will go for the other people in order to benefit them. In due course, they will find that Farage considers them "other people". |
Yep will be the classic first they came for ...and I did not speak out |  | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 02:52 - May 3 with 1379 views | quirkie |
Labour will win the next election in 2029. All this Reform stuff is just noise, they will be gone when people realise Fartage is a fraud.
I have all faith in Starmer to deliver. |  |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 07:47 - May 3 with 1154 views | NthQldITFC |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 02:52 - May 3 by quirkie |
Labour will win the next election in 2029. All this Reform stuff is just noise, they will be gone when people realise Fartage is a fraud.
I have all faith in Starmer to deliver. |
That's scarily close to the Democratic view of Trump's second run too. Except their electorate had already seen Trump in power and still went back for more.
I've wanted to believe in Starmer becoming a decisive leader and moving more towards a traditional Labour ideology, but I was clearly naive on that. The parallels of a half-arsed administration with a confused identity drifting slackly towards disaster are frightening, and Starmer looks almost as confused as Biden at times.
Reeves' strategy looks doomed to fail with the underlying world economic situation not helping an already slim chance of her miraculously discovering the magic perpetual growth tree. Now's the time for a radical change of tack under a Labour banner - get McDonnell in and ffs tax the fkn rich properly and save our country. |  |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 08:13 - May 3 with 1116 views | nodge_blue |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 07:47 - May 3 by NthQldITFC |
That's scarily close to the Democratic view of Trump's second run too. Except their electorate had already seen Trump in power and still went back for more.
I've wanted to believe in Starmer becoming a decisive leader and moving more towards a traditional Labour ideology, but I was clearly naive on that. The parallels of a half-arsed administration with a confused identity drifting slackly towards disaster are frightening, and Starmer looks almost as confused as Biden at times.
Reeves' strategy looks doomed to fail with the underlying world economic situation not helping an already slim chance of her miraculously discovering the magic perpetual growth tree. Now's the time for a radical change of tack under a Labour banner - get McDonnell in and ffs tax the fkn rich properly and save our country. |
I think that’s a harsh take on Starmer. Looking confused as Biden. I think apart from the PIP stuff has largely done ok. And even there I think there probably are a significant number of people abusing the system.
What would be your proposed level of tax then on the rich? And how much would we need from them to fully fund everything we want to spend money on?
Not being rich myself I don’t have a position to defend but it always feels like a far left ideological knee jerk thing to say tax the rich. I read there already 250000 expats in Dubai alone. How do you know you won’t just make that number a million and we lose all their tax revenue? [Post edited 3 May 8:14]
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 08:15 - May 3 with 1106 views | Churchman |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 02:52 - May 3 by quirkie |
Labour will win the next election in 2029. All this Reform stuff is just noise, they will be gone when people realise Fartage is a fraud.
I have all faith in Starmer to deliver. |
I think you are right, not least because Farage and his collection of failed politicians, oddballs and ignoramuses are nothing more than a protest group.
But I do think that while it doesn’t matter what the tories think as they’re finished, it’d be foolish of Labour to ignore the messages of this. If they do, Reform really could start posing a problem.
As for Starmer, I like the fact that he’s not all mouth and trousers like Farage, Johnson and other numbnuts. However I do hope he’s quietly doing stuff behind the scenes. He’s already got through the usual playbook of blame the opposition, blame the Civil Service, blame world circumstances, show importance by lots of foreign leader handshaking in 10 months flat.
What has he actually achieved beyond battering business in the budget, allow Milliband to batter business and people further with his incoherent (in my view) if well meaning green policies, talk about stuff like defence while the scrapyards ready themselves for more kit incoming?
But the elephant in the room is immigration. Whether they are or they aren’t, Starmer and Labour are appearing to be doing nothing about it. Rattling on about smuggling gangs who everyone knows the govt has no power whatsoever to do anything about and quoting numbers deported, that’s a drop in the ocean compared to the 1000s rocking in, appears like ‘we are not not interested’.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labou
Attached is an old article from 10 years ago detailing the impact of Blair and Brown mass immigration policy in the 1990s. The points made are relevant now. If you are Farage (god forbid) you are going to use this to beat the hell out of Starmer and co. People mentioned in the article will pick up on it and continue to boot out Labour and Tory counsellors then MPs.
If you are the government you need to do something about it or explain better the rationale/justification for supporting unlimited immigration or admit there’s nothing to be done about it - and face the consequences.
This is a horribly long post which agrees totally with your first sentence, worries about Starmer’s ability to deliver (while preferring him to anyone else out there to do it) and urges Labour to take the Reform/Trumpesque brigade seriously.
While nutty and empty, they are garnering support. |  | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 08:18 - May 3 with 1094 views | Ftnfwest |
Yes thats because 16 of the 23 councils up for grabs were conservative. Starmer withdrew all but 1 of the labour ones from the vote. |  | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 08:26 - May 3 with 1055 views | NthQldITFC |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 08:13 - May 3 by nodge_blue |
I think that’s a harsh take on Starmer. Looking confused as Biden. I think apart from the PIP stuff has largely done ok. And even there I think there probably are a significant number of people abusing the system.
What would be your proposed level of tax then on the rich? And how much would we need from them to fully fund everything we want to spend money on?
Not being rich myself I don’t have a position to defend but it always feels like a far left ideological knee jerk thing to say tax the rich. I read there already 250000 expats in Dubai alone. How do you know you won’t just make that number a million and we lose all their tax revenue? [Post edited 3 May 8:14]
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I don't have any numbers - I don't have the nous for that. But empirically it is indisputable that the rich have been getting richer and the poor have been getting poorer since Thatcher at least. There's no logical reason why that can't be reversed. It's just dogma and self-interest.
As far as expatriation goes - fine. Make the changes, extract a fair (and let's face it, to the 'victims' a practically meaningless, if not egotistically meaningless) reversal of their extortion, and if they want to fk off to Dubai, great, but they cannot continue to extract wealth from the UK, its people or its resources from there.
If you're telling me that all the best brains will be in Dubai, and there will just be dim-witted labourers left in Britain unable to reinvigorate a dying country, I'm not entirely sure I'd go along with that. I think there would be plenty of bright, talented, enthusiastic young patriots champing at the bit to reboot the UK along fairish and progressive lines. [Post edited 3 May 8:27]
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 08:53 - May 3 with 991 views | BloomBlue |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 02:52 - May 3 by quirkie |
Labour will win the next election in 2029. All this Reform stuff is just noise, they will be gone when people realise Fartage is a fraud.
I have all faith in Starmer to deliver. |
It will be based on if they deliver what they promise and/or deliver what they didn't promise.
As I said on another post Radio5 was in Runcorn 2 weeks ago chatting with people on the streets, and the overriding negative was Labour cutting benefits and the winter fuel. The main negative was Labour only won the GE a few months ago and they never told us then they would cut benefit.
It will be similar with immigration, Labour called Rwanda a gimmick and the way to stop the crossing is smash the gang. Sensible approach and it will take time, but if we approach the next GE and those numbers aren't dropping that is going to be a serious problem for Labour, ie they haven't delivered what they promised.
Runcorn was Labour's 49th safest seat based on majority, yes it was a protest vote, but to turn over that majority is amazing, and anyone who thinks Reform isnt a threat to Labour has their head stuck in the sand.
As they said on the wireless this morning, when Labour was winning by elections over the last couple of years Labour supports were crowing that was evidence Labour could form the next Government. Now a lot of those same people are simply writing it off as a protest. You cannot have it both ways. |  | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 09:16 - May 3 with 947 views | nodge_blue |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 08:26 - May 3 by NthQldITFC |
I don't have any numbers - I don't have the nous for that. But empirically it is indisputable that the rich have been getting richer and the poor have been getting poorer since Thatcher at least. There's no logical reason why that can't be reversed. It's just dogma and self-interest.
As far as expatriation goes - fine. Make the changes, extract a fair (and let's face it, to the 'victims' a practically meaningless, if not egotistically meaningless) reversal of their extortion, and if they want to fk off to Dubai, great, but they cannot continue to extract wealth from the UK, its people or its resources from there.
If you're telling me that all the best brains will be in Dubai, and there will just be dim-witted labourers left in Britain unable to reinvigorate a dying country, I'm not entirely sure I'd go along with that. I think there would be plenty of bright, talented, enthusiastic young patriots champing at the bit to reboot the UK along fairish and progressive lines. [Post edited 3 May 8:27]
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I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. To all of it.
Do these talented, enthusiastic young patriots champing at the bit to reboot the UK along fairish and progressive lines really exist in such numbers?
Or are they just the next bunch of rich wannabes dreaming of big houses and luxury lifestyles rather than social justice? | |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 09:17 - May 3 with 945 views | tractordownsouth |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 08:53 - May 3 by BloomBlue |
It will be based on if they deliver what they promise and/or deliver what they didn't promise.
As I said on another post Radio5 was in Runcorn 2 weeks ago chatting with people on the streets, and the overriding negative was Labour cutting benefits and the winter fuel. The main negative was Labour only won the GE a few months ago and they never told us then they would cut benefit.
It will be similar with immigration, Labour called Rwanda a gimmick and the way to stop the crossing is smash the gang. Sensible approach and it will take time, but if we approach the next GE and those numbers aren't dropping that is going to be a serious problem for Labour, ie they haven't delivered what they promised.
Runcorn was Labour's 49th safest seat based on majority, yes it was a protest vote, but to turn over that majority is amazing, and anyone who thinks Reform isnt a threat to Labour has their head stuck in the sand.
As they said on the wireless this morning, when Labour was winning by elections over the last couple of years Labour supports were crowing that was evidence Labour could form the next Government. Now a lot of those same people are simply writing it off as a protest. You cannot have it both ways. |
On the final parahraph, I agree that the scale of the Reform win means it's difficult to just write it off as a protest vote. However, your point about Labour's by-election victories is comparing apples with oranges because this is ten months into a five year government so there's plenty to play for yet. |  |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 09:50 - May 3 with 898 views | Libero |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 02:52 - May 3 by quirkie |
Labour will win the next election in 2029. All this Reform stuff is just noise, they will be gone when people realise Fartage is a fraud.
I have all faith in Starmer to deliver. |
out of interest, how old are you quirkie?
Posted my views on this earlier this morning in bluelagos thread-
"They were saying on The News Agents the other day that it could spell 'the end' of the Conservative party but more broadly, I fear it's the end of Labour too.
Their strategy since taking power has been weak and at points, a covert race to the bottom in a vain attempt to compete with the morally bankrupt- just because that's what's popular right now.
There is no real left wing resistance and after 14 years of neo-liberal ravaging, yesterday evidenced what a lot of us were already feeling, that we're inevitably sliding towards the same kind of quasi-fascism as the United States.
The overarching powers of misinformation, alternative facts and low levels of comprehension are just too strong and Labour's entire plan is to make the changes required so that ordinary working people can see and feel the difference to their lives - they've totally ignored the context of the landscape we're living in right now and the fact that even *if* they manage to do that, so many people are so deeply indoctrinated that they won't be turned by things simply getting better.
Politics as we knew it has been dying a slow death ever since 2016. It really sucks.
Millenials have lived through multiple financial crashes and 'once in a life time event's that have effected most of our trajectory into adulthood/at key milestones in our lives and now we're heading into our 40's looking at the likelihood that a party with fascist rhetoric, no functioning press office and not enough policies to even put together a manifesto are being actively voted in to power without a dot of real resistance.
Absolutely mental."
Full Thread here; So now the Tories are seemingly finished... by bluelagos 3 May 8:23Who should we be thanking for their terminal demise?
Johnson? Truss? Sunak? Badenoch? Cameron? All of the above?
I'll go with Johnson. An opportunist that jumped on the Brexit bandwagon, then oversaw an economically damaging Brexit deal with the EU, failed to maximise the freedoms of life outside the EU, killed thousands with his dithering on lockdowns and lied to the nation about the parties going on at Downing St whilst the country was locked down.
[Post edited 3 May 9:51]
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 09:52 - May 3 with 885 views | WinchBlue |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 02:52 - May 3 by quirkie |
Labour will win the next election in 2029. All this Reform stuff is just noise, they will be gone when people realise Fartage is a fraud.
I have all faith in Starmer to deliver. |
They will.
Reform stuff is not noise, it’s splitting the vote in a 1st pst the post system so you end up with
1 labour by some margin
2 centrist/ right leaning tories
3 right wing/far right tories (reform)
4 libdem |  | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 10:56 - May 3 with 821 views | Guthrum |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 08:18 - May 3 by Ftnfwest |
Yes thats because 16 of the 23 councils up for grabs were conservative. Starmer withdrew all but 1 of the labour ones from the vote. |
That is a pertinent point, but rather reinforces that these results should be seen in a contect of where the Reform-Conservative struggle is now, rather than Reform-Labour (lacking data).
Will be intersting to see how Runcorn goes in the next GE, given turnout was 46.2% againt 59.7 in 2024. Plus that the number Reform's vote went up by (4,983) was not much more than that by which the Conservative vote went down (4,415), so it was more a swing on that axis. There were a lot more independents and minor parties running this time, getting over 1,100 votes - had they not been on the ballot and just seven electors shrugged and voted Labour, the headlines would be very different, such was the narrowness of the margin. | |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 11:34 - May 3 with 781 views | Trequartista |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 02:52 - May 3 by quirkie |
Labour will win the next election in 2029. All this Reform stuff is just noise, they will be gone when people realise Fartage is a fraud.
I have all faith in Starmer to deliver. |
Do you still think they will win if Reform and Conservatives merge or, at least, form an electoral pact to not challenge each other in certain seats? |  |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 11:40 - May 3 with 747 views | Herbivore |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 02:52 - May 3 by quirkie |
Labour will win the next election in 2029. All this Reform stuff is just noise, they will be gone when people realise Fartage is a fraud.
I have all faith in Starmer to deliver. |
Farage has been around in politics since the early 90s and lots of people still can't seem to see that he's a fraud. I don't see that changing much in the next few years. I think the nature of FPTP will keep Reform out, they could feasibly become the opposition I think, although 4 years is a very long time in politics. |  |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 11:49 - May 3 with 732 views | RadioOrwell |
It was clear a long time ago they are all (ex) Tories.
They have always been with us. It's who we have had in Government for many many years. |  | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 11:58 - May 3 with 703 views | Herbivore |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 11:49 - May 3 by RadioOrwell |
It was clear a long time ago they are all (ex) Tories.
They have always been with us. It's who we have had in Government for many many years. |
The irony of the voters of Lincolnshire electing Andrea Jenkyns wasn't lost on me. Let's vote for change by going for someone who spent the last 9 years of her career governing the country and running it into the ground. The grift that keeps on giving. | |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 12:00 - May 3 with 697 views | RadioOrwell |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 11:58 - May 3 by Herbivore |
The irony of the voters of Lincolnshire electing Andrea Jenkyns wasn't lost on me. Let's vote for change by going for someone who spent the last 9 years of her career governing the country and running it into the ground. The grift that keeps on giving. |
Yes but sticking it to the man or woman or something. | | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 13:14 - May 3 with 621 views | Lord_Lucan |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 10:56 - May 3 by Guthrum |
That is a pertinent point, but rather reinforces that these results should be seen in a contect of where the Reform-Conservative struggle is now, rather than Reform-Labour (lacking data).
Will be intersting to see how Runcorn goes in the next GE, given turnout was 46.2% againt 59.7 in 2024. Plus that the number Reform's vote went up by (4,983) was not much more than that by which the Conservative vote went down (4,415), so it was more a swing on that axis. There were a lot more independents and minor parties running this time, getting over 1,100 votes - had they not been on the ballot and just seven electors shrugged and voted Labour, the headlines would be very different, such was the narrowness of the margin. |
The Labour vote went down about 14% and the Tories about 8.5% |  |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 13:23 - May 3 with 580 views | Lord_Lucan |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 07:47 - May 3 by NthQldITFC |
That's scarily close to the Democratic view of Trump's second run too. Except their electorate had already seen Trump in power and still went back for more.
I've wanted to believe in Starmer becoming a decisive leader and moving more towards a traditional Labour ideology, but I was clearly naive on that. The parallels of a half-arsed administration with a confused identity drifting slackly towards disaster are frightening, and Starmer looks almost as confused as Biden at times.
Reeves' strategy looks doomed to fail with the underlying world economic situation not helping an already slim chance of her miraculously discovering the magic perpetual growth tree. Now's the time for a radical change of tack under a Labour banner - get McDonnell in and ffs tax the fkn rich properly and save our country. |
I feel for you, there isn’t a Labour Party any more
Anyone clinging on to any belief that there is, well, I can’t explain how they think this.
I’m certainly not a traditional Labour man but I used to admire the likes of Dennis Skinner, at least he believed in something.
Old school Labour would have taxed the wealthy until the pips squeaked, they wouldn’t have gone after the pensioners and the disabled.
If there is gonna be a Labour government, I would rather see a proper one. | |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 13:27 - May 3 with 537 views | NeedhamChris |
This is what happens when one of the top posters on the board with usually detailed analysis and logic, shows their bias.
This completely ignores the 200 or so seats gained by the Lib Dems and Greens. | |
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| For all the shouting about Labour on 13:40 - May 3 with 501 views | Ftnfwest |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 10:56 - May 3 by Guthrum |
That is a pertinent point, but rather reinforces that these results should be seen in a contect of where the Reform-Conservative struggle is now, rather than Reform-Labour (lacking data).
Will be intersting to see how Runcorn goes in the next GE, given turnout was 46.2% againt 59.7 in 2024. Plus that the number Reform's vote went up by (4,983) was not much more than that by which the Conservative vote went down (4,415), so it was more a swing on that axis. There were a lot more independents and minor parties running this time, getting over 1,100 votes - had they not been on the ballot and just seven electors shrugged and voted Labour, the headlines would be very different, such was the narrowness of the margin. |
It was actually 18 Tory councils, tbh didn’t realise they had that many left! | | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 13:42 - May 3 with 488 views | leitrimblue |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 13:23 - May 3 by Lord_Lucan |
I feel for you, there isn’t a Labour Party any more
Anyone clinging on to any belief that there is, well, I can’t explain how they think this.
I’m certainly not a traditional Labour man but I used to admire the likes of Dennis Skinner, at least he believed in something.
Old school Labour would have taxed the wealthy until the pips squeaked, they wouldn’t have gone after the pensioners and the disabled.
If there is gonna be a Labour government, I would rather see a proper one. |
Spot on comrade  |  | | |
| For all the shouting about Labour on 13:52 - May 3 with 467 views | thebooks |
This is seriously deluded.
Take Durham, one of the few elections where Lab had a proper number of seats to defend.
They lost 38 of 42 of them. Reform went from 0 to 65 seats.
Lab lost the Runcorn election with a swing of 17% to Reform.
These are “red wall” seats — it’s 2019 again, only with an even further right threat.
As Lab’s response will be to have a “crackdown” on immigration, rather than, say, implement a wealth tax, or even just reinstate the WFA, they are absolutely doomed in the next election.
Relying on the public to view Fuuckface as a “fraud” is obviously wrong. He’s been around for about 30 years. |  | | |
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