| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? 08:01 - May 20 with 3336 views | wolfyattheback |
in today's market, 30m is nothing for a quality player. We can dress it up that he is not the finished article etc. to make us feel better, but a better team will provide him with much better chances to score and more chances at that. I would fancy him to be getting 15–20 goals next season for whoever he plays for.
We've had our pants pulled down, haven't we? In our desperation to sign a striker we have agreed to a silly clause which has ultimately shown our newbie status in the Premiership and possibly cost us many millions.
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:11 - May 20 with 530 views | Basuco |
No, If we had not agreed to the release clause he would not have signed for us, so I am happy to have watched him all season and with more luck with the long term injuries, things just might have turned out better, or maybe not. |  | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:11 - May 20 with 531 views | artsbossbeard |
I see we're all Premiership Footballer Contract Specialists this morning. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:19 - May 20 with 516 views | Guthrum |
There's a massive dose of hindsight in this. When we signed Delap he wasn't a striker who would be scoring double figures in the Prem. He was a 21 year old kid who had a single fairly decent season on loan at Hull in the Championship. Looked a good prospect, but nothing more.
He wasn't even supposed to be our main or only striker for the season.
What if we'd got the Greek guy, or Broja (assuming he was fit and could have stayed that way), or Hirst wasn't injured? Delap might well have been limited to off-the-bench cameos, or played out wide.
Last summer, as things stood when the deal was signed, most people would have considered a profit of around £10m after just one year not a bad return. It's all very well to adjust expectations since he turned out to be pretty good, but contracts are written at a single point in time, without the aid of a crystal ball. |  |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:19 - May 20 with 502 views | SailorBlue |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 08:15 - May 20 by Churchman |
Whatever the deal is, it won’t have cost us anything. We will get our money back and make a bit on top. Never a bad thing, given the club didn’t have a crystal ball and had no idea he’d do so well.
Would you have preferred him to go to Southampton? That’s where he was off to had we not signed him. Maybe that would have been a much better option to save all those tears over what ‘possibly cost us many millions’ but actually didn’t. |
The point about Southampton nearly signing him is crucial. As has been reported several times on here, he was set to sign for Southampton, but we got in last minute. Man City accepted our offer but Delap had agreed terms with Southampton and we had to match the terms they offered.
By all accounts it was Mckenna that won him over to come here instead of Southampton, but if they had agreed that contract with the clause we had to match it or not get him. You could argue it is worth £33M as its likely Southampton would have been above us if they had picked him up (if each place in the league is worth approx £3M) and we hadn't bought better, but all ifs and buts, would he have fitted into their system.... would we have picked up anyone better (paid over the odds for that Greek fella or Broja?). It would be worth £36M if we haven't lost to Leicester if we can't get above them on final day.... [Post edited 20 May 9:42]
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:22 - May 20 with 491 views | bsw72 |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:06 - May 20 by Jrm_72 |
It's not the release clause, or the buyback for that matter, that irks me. Its that it's another one of a growing list of things from the club that they talk utter b/s on and expect us to blindly go along with it. A position aided by the merry band of fans that will readily die on the hill of 'Ashton is the messiah', 'McKenna is a genius' and pile on anyone that dares criticise either.
Ashton said 'we are very very very very well protected on Delap' or however many extra 'very's' he added. Which to anyone awake is pure fiction. We got the player, but negotiated poorly and ended up with a lopsided deal, both in the players favour, and his previous club. And no, before some smarta*se comments, I wasnt in the room, I haven't seen the contract. But let's pick up the phone and speak to Ronnie Real here, things get round easily enough for us all to know the score on this, its churlish to say otherwise.
Just be honest about it. Say 'we did what we had to in order to get the deal done.' Don't wee in my pocket and tell me its raining... |
Chuckle - not sure why this has rattled your cage so much, it comes down to language and interpretation. I wonder what else Ashton and McKenna have done that irks you so much?
Personally I think a return of £10m (60%) profit on a player is pretty well protected - not being protected would be losing money or only breaking even surely. I'm pretty sure most people would be happy with this kind of return on any investment. |  | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:24 - May 20 with 485 views | Guthrum |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:06 - May 20 by Jrm_72 |
It's not the release clause, or the buyback for that matter, that irks me. Its that it's another one of a growing list of things from the club that they talk utter b/s on and expect us to blindly go along with it. A position aided by the merry band of fans that will readily die on the hill of 'Ashton is the messiah', 'McKenna is a genius' and pile on anyone that dares criticise either.
Ashton said 'we are very very very very well protected on Delap' or however many extra 'very's' he added. Which to anyone awake is pure fiction. We got the player, but negotiated poorly and ended up with a lopsided deal, both in the players favour, and his previous club. And no, before some smarta*se comments, I wasnt in the room, I haven't seen the contract. But let's pick up the phone and speak to Ronnie Real here, things get round easily enough for us all to know the score on this, its churlish to say otherwise.
Just be honest about it. Say 'we did what we had to in order to get the deal done.' Don't wee in my pocket and tell me its raining... |
Protected is the correct word. We were still going to make a profit on the deal if he turned out to be decent and wanted to leave for a bigger club (or go back to ManC). | |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:27 - May 20 with 464 views | Jrm_72 |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:11 - May 20 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Alternatively, a deal that means he can only be sold for £12M more than we paid for him could be described as well protected.
I am happy to defend Ashton and McKenna with where both have taken the club. Neither is the Messiah nor a genius. Feel free to criticise both of them but to do so over signing Delap with this clause in his contract seems a stretch for me. |
£12m more than we paid or a 50% discount on what he's worth? Say you bought a house in the 80's for £5k, would you be happy taking £10k for it now when its worth £300,000? Doubled your money...
Im not criticising either for the deal (its nothing to do with McKenna anyway, I was making a wider point on his infallability amongst some fans), its the dressing up a bad deal as a good deal that's my issue. Though of course this is a very fashionable thing to do in the modern zeitgeist, but i digress...
I just feel under this regime that all too often the fans are played for fools by the club. Delap is just one of at least half a dozen of these times.
"Here's some tripe, swallow it down, pay us your money, if you don't like it we will replace you with another poor sap." | | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:28 - May 20 with 461 views | gramps |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:24 - May 20 by Guthrum |
Protected is the correct word. We were still going to make a profit on the deal if he turned out to be decent and wanted to leave for a bigger club (or go back to ManC). |
Well hopefully we can put a hefty sell on clause in the sale. |  |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:29 - May 20 with 459 views | monty_radio |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 08:14 - May 20 by Herbivore |
Thanks for starting this thread, we've not really had a chance to talk about this. At the time we negotiated the deal he had other options so was in a strong position, we probably also thought that doubling our outlay in one year if we go down is a decent insurance policy. I imagine if we'd thought he'd have the impact he has, we probably also thought his relegation release clause would be activated. As a Prem side, we'd probably have got close to £50m for him I think, but going down would have weakened our hand in negotiations even without the clause. Basically, hindsight is a wonderful thing and people are using a lot of it when they wang on about what a bad deal we negotiated. I'm less convinced about that in the context in which the deal was made. |
There is no mandate that says that contributors must be aware of most, if not all, that has gone before though, is there? Suggesting that one needs to keep up before speaking on a football forum is unnecessary, although perhaps less so if the subject matter were more significant. | |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:38 - May 20 with 449 views | Jrm_72 |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:22 - May 20 by bsw72 |
Chuckle - not sure why this has rattled your cage so much, it comes down to language and interpretation. I wonder what else Ashton and McKenna have done that irks you so much?
Personally I think a return of £10m (60%) profit on a player is pretty well protected - not being protected would be losing money or only breaking even surely. I'm pretty sure most people would be happy with this kind of return on any investment. |
I mean there is a growing list that runs in my head. Which I should probably find a way to let go of and stop making myself angry about a sports team lol.
Ashton just isn't my cup of tea. I don't like spinners and bullsh*tters, I don't like people that blame others and seem incapable of taking responsibility (particular from those in positions of authority), and I don't like being so obviously taken for granted.
But we all have our pet hates. Aren't you the chap that is always picking on Leif? | | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:40 - May 20 with 438 views | baxterbasics |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:38 - May 20 by Jrm_72 |
I mean there is a growing list that runs in my head. Which I should probably find a way to let go of and stop making myself angry about a sports team lol.
Ashton just isn't my cup of tea. I don't like spinners and bullsh*tters, I don't like people that blame others and seem incapable of taking responsibility (particular from those in positions of authority), and I don't like being so obviously taken for granted.
But we all have our pet hates. Aren't you the chap that is always picking on Leif? |
Unfortunately those traits you say you don't like about Ashton, tend to be hallmarks of a successful chairman/CEO. |  |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:42 - May 20 with 432 views | Jrm_72 |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:40 - May 20 by baxterbasics |
Unfortunately those traits you say you don't like about Ashton, tend to be hallmarks of a successful chairman/CEO. |
Or indeed 95% of politicians...
Still, he is better than Evans, and at least he is a dab hand at doing the washing up. | | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:44 - May 20 with 424 views | RadioOrwell |
No not at all.
We had him for a year, he scored most of our goals and we'll make money. |  | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:56 - May 20 with 399 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:27 - May 20 by Jrm_72 |
£12m more than we paid or a 50% discount on what he's worth? Say you bought a house in the 80's for £5k, would you be happy taking £10k for it now when its worth £300,000? Doubled your money...
Im not criticising either for the deal (its nothing to do with McKenna anyway, I was making a wider point on his infallability amongst some fans), its the dressing up a bad deal as a good deal that's my issue. Though of course this is a very fashionable thing to do in the modern zeitgeist, but i digress...
I just feel under this regime that all too often the fans are played for fools by the club. Delap is just one of at least half a dozen of these times.
"Here's some tripe, swallow it down, pay us your money, if you don't like it we will replace you with another poor sap." |
What a ridiculous comparison!
Delap has not been our player for 45 years. If he had I think we would be getting £0 for him! Player contracts (which is what the compensation or transfer fee is actually for) are not the same as property.
If I had bought the house with terms that stated that I had to sell it back to the previous owner for £10K whenever I sold it, I would consider myself stupid to have held on to it for 45 years rather than sold it within a year when it was still worth £6-10K.
Why do you think that Delap is worth £60M? No club would be buying him for that if we didn't have the clause. There are plenty of far more experienced and proven players available at that price.
EDIT: And if we didn't have the clause, the likelihood is that Delap would be seeking a move to the Premier League and would be unsettled if we turned down offers. It would be likely that Premier League clubs would be offering something in the region of £30M for him, I would reckon. No way would they be offering £60M. However, they might be offering clauses that we are unlikely to get now. [Post edited 20 May 10:04]
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:59 - May 20 with 395 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:28 - May 20 by gramps |
Well hopefully we can put a hefty sell on clause in the sale. |
Since it is a clause in Delap's contract, I think the only way we can do anything like that is by negotiating more favourable terms for the buying club and agreeing such as part of those terms. e.g. the fee is staged rather than all up front, based on appearances, lower, etc. | |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 10:00 - May 20 with 391 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Nonsense.
If we didnt agree, he would have just signed for Southampton, and our season would have been even worse.
At least we didnt finish bottom, and we have some profit from the deal.
A little realism is needed here. |  |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 10:02 - May 20 with 377 views | ClareBlue |
We could have said any player signing for us as a club who were likely to be relegated could only have a buy out clause of 100million if we are actually relegated, just in case they turn out to be brilliant. We could of said that, and guess what, nobody would sign for us. That's the point. You can't predict who us going to shoot up in value and if you are a club who is likely to be relegated you can't restrict players leaving with extreme buy outs. They just won't sign for us if you do that, if they have any potential to improve. The deal as reported was fine for when it was made. | | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 10:04 - May 20 with 371 views | Swansea_Blue |
Isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing! |  |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 10:09 - May 20 with 366 views | Jrm_72 |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:56 - May 20 by Nthsuffolkblue |
What a ridiculous comparison!
Delap has not been our player for 45 years. If he had I think we would be getting £0 for him! Player contracts (which is what the compensation or transfer fee is actually for) are not the same as property.
If I had bought the house with terms that stated that I had to sell it back to the previous owner for £10K whenever I sold it, I would consider myself stupid to have held on to it for 45 years rather than sold it within a year when it was still worth £6-10K.
Why do you think that Delap is worth £60M? No club would be buying him for that if we didn't have the clause. There are plenty of far more experienced and proven players available at that price.
EDIT: And if we didn't have the clause, the likelihood is that Delap would be seeking a move to the Premier League and would be unsettled if we turned down offers. It would be likely that Premier League clubs would be offering something in the region of £30M for him, I would reckon. No way would they be offering £60M. However, they might be offering clauses that we are unlikely to get now. [Post edited 20 May 10:04]
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Think we are getting bogged down in the deal here. As I've said, more than once, that's not my issue. We did what we had to do to get the player. My issue is the inability of the club to be honest about it.
No a person is not property eye roll. But an asset is still an asset, and selling said asset for below market price and saying its a great deal is still a suspension of disbelief.
We can debate true value all day long, but I hope we can agree £30m is significantly below his true worth? Archie Gray went for £40m+ after a bang average debut championship season spent mainly playing out of position for example. Strikers come at a premium, as do tall, fast, strong, young and athletic ones... | | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 10:15 - May 20 with 347 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 08:09 - May 20 by wolfyattheback |
No, I was happy we got him.
It is still OK though to see other players of much less quality moving for far more money and be disappointed with the way Ipswich has negotiated this particular deal.
The 12 million profit really is not that special but if you wish to paint it otherwise then that is OK. |
It was a choice between sign the contract with that clause in it, or let him go elsewhere. In which case we would be making £0 out of him this summer.
It's a classic case of "It is what it is". | | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 10:36 - May 20 with 322 views | homer_123 |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:28 - May 20 by gramps |
Well hopefully we can put a hefty sell on clause in the sale. |
Not the way it will work unfortunately. |  |
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| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 10:56 - May 20 with 300 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Why not let’s have yet another thread about this | | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 11:02 - May 20 with 292 views | CrockerITFC |
In all honestly, given his previous loan spells, what made you think he was going to be this impactful in the Premier League! If you predicted that then the club should sign you as Chief Scout.
He was originally signed as our backup striker. Yes 30m is low but that's only with the benefit of hindsight. We still double our money...it's not all doom and gloom. |  | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 11:03 - May 20 with 291 views | Churchman |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:06 - May 20 by Jrm_72 |
It's not the release clause, or the buyback for that matter, that irks me. Its that it's another one of a growing list of things from the club that they talk utter b/s on and expect us to blindly go along with it. A position aided by the merry band of fans that will readily die on the hill of 'Ashton is the messiah', 'McKenna is a genius' and pile on anyone that dares criticise either.
Ashton said 'we are very very very very well protected on Delap' or however many extra 'very's' he added. Which to anyone awake is pure fiction. We got the player, but negotiated poorly and ended up with a lopsided deal, both in the players favour, and his previous club. And no, before some smarta*se comments, I wasnt in the room, I haven't seen the contract. But let's pick up the phone and speak to Ronnie Real here, things get round easily enough for us all to know the score on this, its churlish to say otherwise.
Just be honest about it. Say 'we did what we had to in order to get the deal done.' Don't wee in my pocket and tell me its raining... |
Oh well, if you say Ashton was mugged off and in turn lied to the supporters, you must be right. Since you must be right Ashton must be a liar and surely the next step is a campaign to treat him as the devil and get him out. Bristol City’s knuckle draggers said the same so it must be the correct way to go. Alternatively, why don’t you challenge him on it and let us know how it goes?
The reality is we don’t know. If you’ve ever dealt with anything that’s media worthy you will know most of it is nonsense. About 85%. These parasites need to make a living. A germ of a rumour can be written into a full article. People will read and believe because if any nonsense is not refuted in about 20 mins it becomes fact.
There is no proof that McKenna, Ashton, Crazy, the club cat has lied about anything not least because they don’t talk about the detail of deals or in recent months much at all. If the club is protected that can mean anything from a small profit to a whopping sell on to favours for sailors. What it doesn’t mean is that we’ll lose money on him. Frankly when I saw him in pre season I thought we’d raided the donkey sanctuary. He’s been a bright light in a very disappointing season.
The quote from the mad looking finance bloke about CEOs btw, which is what you are alluding to, is ‘don’t p£ss on my boots and tell me it’s raining’.
Lastly, nobody has ever called Ashton a ‘messiah’. In fact he gets plenty of stick for some of the things he’s got wrong (dad dancing, prancing about at Wycombe, the Cobbold Stand Season ticket handling, to name but three). But I think he’s got lots right and appears to care. Maybe you prefer the Evans, Clegg era where the nearest thing to excitement was the Great Fire of Playford and the rusting turnstiles getting a lick of paint. I do not.
I’m not sure anyone has called McKenna a genius either. He is a young manager learning the game so will get things wrong. He’s got a lot right too, not least turning out a team that tries to play football most of the time and two promotions. Maybe you prefer the Duncan and McCarthy hoof or the excitement of Lambert’s chaos. I don’t.
If you don’t like McKenna, fine. It’s quite possible he will move on anyway so perhaps you’d like to suggest who could do better at this club. Perhaps ask when calling Ashton out for telling lies.
This growing list the club talk b/s on. Please could you tell us what’s in this list. I’m curious. They’ve pretty much done what they said they would to date from what I can see. |  | | |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 11:08 - May 20 with 287 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Is everyone disappointed with the Delap 30m price? on 09:06 - May 20 by Jrm_72 |
It's not the release clause, or the buyback for that matter, that irks me. Its that it's another one of a growing list of things from the club that they talk utter b/s on and expect us to blindly go along with it. A position aided by the merry band of fans that will readily die on the hill of 'Ashton is the messiah', 'McKenna is a genius' and pile on anyone that dares criticise either.
Ashton said 'we are very very very very well protected on Delap' or however many extra 'very's' he added. Which to anyone awake is pure fiction. We got the player, but negotiated poorly and ended up with a lopsided deal, both in the players favour, and his previous club. And no, before some smarta*se comments, I wasnt in the room, I haven't seen the contract. But let's pick up the phone and speak to Ronnie Real here, things get round easily enough for us all to know the score on this, its churlish to say otherwise.
Just be honest about it. Say 'we did what we had to in order to get the deal done.' Don't wee in my pocket and tell me its raining... |
If there's any bollox going around, it's well contained within the content of this post ...
All of this comes across as from someone with a huge chip on their should regarding Ashton. I find it equally tiresome that many people don't give the 'suits' the credit they are often due. Running a large business is not easy, with regular hard decisions that have to be made. Sometime they may not be the right/best decision, but someone has to have the balls to make them.
What matters is the longer-term, overall result. And I have seen nothing that says the club isn't on an excellent trajectory, particularly compared to the previous 20+ years. [Post edited 20 May 11:18]
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