| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced 15:31 - Jul 15 with 2556 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
The Judge has been very strong. She went beyond the maximum guideline for sentencing (4 years) due to the social harm and distress caused, and due to them revelling in the crime and the fact that others had been arrested for their crime.
Sentence 4 years 3 months.
They will serve a minimum of 40% in prison (approx 20 months).
What's the feeling on that sentence?
I am aware that some "one punch killers" have been given shorter sentences than that, for example. I am concerned that the Judge said that the widespread public response was a factor in increasing the sentence. That suggests that social media campaigns could influence sentencing.
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:18 - Jul 15 with 583 views | J2BLUE |
Surprised to find myself on the other side on this one.
They are a couple of idiots and throwing them in jail seems to be punishment for the sake of it.
Are they going to learn anything from it? Will this help the community?
The tree is roughly 150 years ago. Give them 150 hours community service instead. Seems more productive all around. |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:23 - Jul 15 with 562 views | The_Romford_Blue |
4 years for felling a tree is insane btw |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:27 - Jul 15 with 547 views | Mercian |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:06 - Jul 15 by AndoverFist |
It’s a shame we still don’t have the equivalent of National Service, whereby they could be forced to enlist with the Army, Navy etc., rather than serving a prison sentence - which, these days, doesn’t seem to be too much of a deterrent & places even more strain on a system which looks close to being overwhelmed. Then, in the event of any civil disturbance or war they would automatically be called upon to defend & protect this country. Might be more of a deterrent than what we have at the moment, where most of these buffoons have no respect for anything or anyone & know the consequences of their actions are similar to being beaten up with a moist tissue. |
To join the modern day armed forces one has to have 3 GCESs, criminal record and various other checks not to mention having to pass various physical and psychological fitness assessments. There would be huge opposition ranging from the highest general to the greenest private. The alternative would be to have criminal battalions where they would be subject to abuse and mistreatment . IMO criminals deserve neither option |  | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:31 - Jul 15 with 508 views | NedPlimpton |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:06 - Jul 15 by AndoverFist |
It’s a shame we still don’t have the equivalent of National Service, whereby they could be forced to enlist with the Army, Navy etc., rather than serving a prison sentence - which, these days, doesn’t seem to be too much of a deterrent & places even more strain on a system which looks close to being overwhelmed. Then, in the event of any civil disturbance or war they would automatically be called upon to defend & protect this country. Might be more of a deterrent than what we have at the moment, where most of these buffoons have no respect for anything or anyone & know the consequences of their actions are similar to being beaten up with a moist tissue. |
Mate, did you see the state of those two tvvats that felled the sycamore gap tree?
Not exactly "defending the country" material |  | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:34 - Jul 15 with 492 views | J2BLUE |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:06 - Jul 15 by AndoverFist |
It’s a shame we still don’t have the equivalent of National Service, whereby they could be forced to enlist with the Army, Navy etc., rather than serving a prison sentence - which, these days, doesn’t seem to be too much of a deterrent & places even more strain on a system which looks close to being overwhelmed. Then, in the event of any civil disturbance or war they would automatically be called upon to defend & protect this country. Might be more of a deterrent than what we have at the moment, where most of these buffoons have no respect for anything or anyone & know the consequences of their actions are similar to being beaten up with a moist tissue. |
Please tell us all about your time serving. | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 19:07 - Jul 15 with 439 views | Trequartista |
With all the prisons full this is absolutely incredible. 6 months, a hefty fine and some community service would have been fine.
People want to see violent or repeat criminals locked up, not vandals and mean tweeters. |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 20:04 - Jul 15 with 382 views | AndoverFist |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:17 - Jul 15 by MattinLondon |
Absolutely- because what the armed forces really want is to look after people who don’t want to be there. |
Fair enough. Your solutions/suggestions would be …. ?
Not looking to be confrontational, just interested. All I’m seeing these days is people who think they can do what they want, with no fear of any reprisals or repercussions. If there are no deterrents (prison system is already creaking at the seams) then what ….. ? | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 20:15 - Jul 15 with 375 views | AndoverFist |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:34 - Jul 15 by J2BLUE |
Please tell us all about your time serving. |
And this is relevant, how ? But, as you asked, Royal Artillery.
I’m not sure why you felt the need to make it personal, I merely put forward an alternative suggestion as to why prison was not the answer. Maybe the equivalent to National Service is not ideal, but what is ? Maybe we should just let people do what they want to do with no repercussions and see how that goes ….. | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 20:23 - Jul 15 with 361 views | MattinLondon |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 20:04 - Jul 15 by AndoverFist |
Fair enough. Your solutions/suggestions would be …. ?
Not looking to be confrontational, just interested. All I’m seeing these days is people who think they can do what they want, with no fear of any reprisals or repercussions. If there are no deterrents (prison system is already creaking at the seams) then what ….. ? |
I did put forward community service which I think will be a far better way for dealing with such offenders. |  | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:11 - Jul 15 with 314 views | AndoverFist |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 20:23 - Jul 15 by MattinLondon |
I did put forward community service which I think will be a far better way for dealing with such offenders. |
OK, I apologise for having overlooked your ‘community service’ suggestion. I’m not sure where you are based, but I’m just getting so peeved by what’s going on, these days, where I live (Romford) , with people going into shops , taking what they want & walking out without paying , mobile phone theft (my friend had his stolen recently), fly-tipping etc etc. If there is no harsh deterrents in place - where does it end ? I’m not so sure the ‘softly, softly’ approach we are taking is having any effect. But, hey ho, we’re all entitled to our opinions | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:34 - Jul 15 with 282 views | TractorWood |
Bafflingly stupid and harmful crime. However, 4 years for this a ridiculous sentence. A real opportunity to sentence them in a way that actually might educate them and rehabilitate their stupidity. Swing and a miss. |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:35 - Jul 15 with 283 views | StokieBlue |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:23 - Jul 15 by The_Romford_Blue |
4 years for felling a tree is insane btw |
Evening Rommers.
Glad you enjoyed your holiday.
I think the important thing here is context. It's not just "felling a tree", it's felling a national monument. What if they had destroyed the statue of Churchill or destroyed buildings at Sutton Hoo, would you think the same then?
They also damaged a 2000 year old cultural artefact in Hadrians wall.
As with everything, context is key. Not giving them a deterrent sentence would be a green light for others to do as they pleased with our history and I think deep down that's not something you really want.
This wasn't a random act of drunken vandalism they were ashamed of, they boasted about it on their chats and even revelled in other people being blamed for it.
SB [Post edited 15 Jul 21:35]
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:36 - Jul 15 with 276 views | StokieBlue |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:34 - Jul 15 by TractorWood |
Bafflingly stupid and harmful crime. However, 4 years for this a ridiculous sentence. A real opportunity to sentence them in a way that actually might educate them and rehabilitate their stupidity. Swing and a miss. |
I don't think it's really about educating them. They are beyond that anyway if you look at their defence and their actions after the act.
It's about educating others not to damage things that are national heritage.
Context is important.
SB | | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:39 - Jul 15 with 258 views | MattinLondon |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:11 - Jul 15 by AndoverFist |
OK, I apologise for having overlooked your ‘community service’ suggestion. I’m not sure where you are based, but I’m just getting so peeved by what’s going on, these days, where I live (Romford) , with people going into shops , taking what they want & walking out without paying , mobile phone theft (my friend had his stolen recently), fly-tipping etc etc. If there is no harsh deterrents in place - where does it end ? I’m not so sure the ‘softly, softly’ approach we are taking is having any effect. But, hey ho, we’re all entitled to our opinions |
These days? Criminals have always stole, always mugged and always injured innocent victims. There had never been an age which was golden or respectful. | | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:56 - Jul 15 with 231 views | AndoverFist |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:39 - Jul 15 by MattinLondon |
These days? Criminals have always stole, always mugged and always injured innocent victims. There had never been an age which was golden or respectful. |
That’s alright then - problem solved ! | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 22:21 - Jul 15 with 203 views | Herbivore |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:11 - Jul 15 by AndoverFist |
OK, I apologise for having overlooked your ‘community service’ suggestion. I’m not sure where you are based, but I’m just getting so peeved by what’s going on, these days, where I live (Romford) , with people going into shops , taking what they want & walking out without paying , mobile phone theft (my friend had his stolen recently), fly-tipping etc etc. If there is no harsh deterrents in place - where does it end ? I’m not so sure the ‘softly, softly’ approach we are taking is having any effect. But, hey ho, we’re all entitled to our opinions |
Prisons are full, I'm not sure it's right to say we're taking a softly softly approach. |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 03:11 - Jul 16 with 144 views | Ryorry |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 21:35 - Jul 15 by StokieBlue |
Evening Rommers.
Glad you enjoyed your holiday.
I think the important thing here is context. It's not just "felling a tree", it's felling a national monument. What if they had destroyed the statue of Churchill or destroyed buildings at Sutton Hoo, would you think the same then?
They also damaged a 2000 year old cultural artefact in Hadrians wall.
As with everything, context is key. Not giving them a deterrent sentence would be a green light for others to do as they pleased with our history and I think deep down that's not something you really want.
This wasn't a random act of drunken vandalism they were ashamed of, they boasted about it on their chats and even revelled in other people being blamed for it.
SB [Post edited 15 Jul 21:35]
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Didn't know that about the artefact, so thanks for the info.
Haven't seen any of the social media stuff or boasting that I think does compound the crime re the tree - they must have seen that thousands of people across the country were really emotionally upset by the destruction of a living icon that had taken 150 years to grow to the stage it had. Allowing others to be blamed also compounds the crime obviously.
Still shocked by the length of the sentence though. Like others, I think spending their weekends in compulsory tree-planting for a couple of years would at least have encouraged them to think along better lines than fostering their resentment in a "university of crime" somewhere.
One thing that interested me from yesterday's news report - the two guilty parties who formerly had been very close friends, had now fallen out completely & were refusing to talk to each other, wouldn't even look at each other in court. Wonder what went on behind the scenes. Young crims saying they were "led on" by others is a story as old as the hills, but both these were in their 30s. |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 05:30 - Jul 16 with 106 views | Benters |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:56 - Jul 15 by NedPlimpton |
Damaging a tree is a bit different to chopping down the most iconic tree in England! |
This. |  |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 05:38 - Jul 16 with 102 views | Benters |
I still don’t understand why they felt the need to cut it down.
Stupid Cs. | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 05:47 - Jul 16 with 95 views | Benters |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:23 - Jul 15 by The_Romford_Blue |
4 years for felling a tree is insane btw |
It was a special tree though Rommy,mind you they are all special to me.
I’ve actually worked in a couple of gardens now and customers have had trees cut down for ridiculous reasons,one cut down a beautiful Indian Bean tree just because it reminded him of the person he bought the house of every time he looked at it.I near enough pleaded with him not to do it,as did his neighbours but down it came poor thing. | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 05:53 - Jul 16 with 87 views | Benters |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 18:06 - Jul 15 by AndoverFist |
It’s a shame we still don’t have the equivalent of National Service, whereby they could be forced to enlist with the Army, Navy etc., rather than serving a prison sentence - which, these days, doesn’t seem to be too much of a deterrent & places even more strain on a system which looks close to being overwhelmed. Then, in the event of any civil disturbance or war they would automatically be called upon to defend & protect this country. Might be more of a deterrent than what we have at the moment, where most of these buffoons have no respect for anything or anyone & know the consequences of their actions are similar to being beaten up with a moist tissue. |
That’s the spirit! | |
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| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 06:16 - Jul 16 with 70 views | tcblue |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 15:56 - Jul 15 by Swansea_Blue |
I’m not so keen on taking the public response into consideration - it introduces a very subjective element, whereas sentencing guidelines are trying to do the opposite. And how do you validate what or how strong the public response is? She may have not veered far from the guidelines in this case, but who’s to say the next judge won’t? |
Very much this.
How much does it set up trial by media? The actual sentence is almost irrelevant compared with this. | | | |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 06:28 - Jul 16 with 65 views | bluelagos |
| Sycamore Gap vandals sentenced on 05:53 - Jul 16 by Benters |
That’s the spirit! |
I'm all for national service, if we start first with those who missed out in the 60s/70s.
As it's seen to be beneficial it would be unfair on the older members of our community if they were to miss out. |  |
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