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Very good on Angela Rayner on 21:30 - Sep 4 by redrickstuhaart
Show the demonstrable untruth, on current available facts?
This is playing out like all political debates on TWTD.
If you are Reform or Tory, then Angela Rayner is guilty as sin and should be shamed and sacked, before any investigation has been carried out and the regulator have published their findings. This, despite spending years bending over backwards trying to give the benefit of doubt to Tories accused of dodgy dealings or Farage’s dodgy finances.
If you are a Labour loyalist then you will bend over backwards to give Angela Rayner the benefit of the doubt despite screaming for any Tory to be shamed and sacked before any investigation had been carried out and the regulator had published their conclusions.
All tribal and all pretty pointless from both sides.
Very good on Angela Rayner on 21:55 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue
This is playing out like all political debates on TWTD.
If you are Reform or Tory, then Angela Rayner is guilty as sin and should be shamed and sacked, before any investigation has been carried out and the regulator have published their findings. This, despite spending years bending over backwards trying to give the benefit of doubt to Tories accused of dodgy dealings or Farage’s dodgy finances.
If you are a Labour loyalist then you will bend over backwards to give Angela Rayner the benefit of the doubt despite screaming for any Tory to be shamed and sacked before any investigation had been carried out and the regulator had published their conclusions.
All tribal and all pretty pointless from both sides.
exactly this. it's clear what the questions are that she needs to answer - but i still have no idea if she has good answers. increasingly it does look like a bit of a reach - but what do i know. but the standards inquiry will give some sort of answer. increasingly i feel that starmer doesn't want to have to make the decision. unless the inquiry is decisive one way or another he will try to fudge - if she goes he doesn't want to be the one holding the knife.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Very good on Angela Rayner on 22:52 - Sep 4 with 1130 views
Very good on Angela Rayner on 21:55 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue
This is playing out like all political debates on TWTD.
If you are Reform or Tory, then Angela Rayner is guilty as sin and should be shamed and sacked, before any investigation has been carried out and the regulator have published their findings. This, despite spending years bending over backwards trying to give the benefit of doubt to Tories accused of dodgy dealings or Farage’s dodgy finances.
If you are a Labour loyalist then you will bend over backwards to give Angela Rayner the benefit of the doubt despite screaming for any Tory to be shamed and sacked before any investigation had been carried out and the regulator had published their conclusions.
All tribal and all pretty pointless from both sides.
Bit superior GB. You have been part of the dynamic you are putting down. And not sure it has been like that. For what it's worth it think she is one of the few authentic people at the top in UK politics and I hope she survives. But then I would say that wouldn't I
[Post edited 4 Sep 22:53]
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Very good on Angela Rayner on 00:01 - Sep 5 with 1078 views
Very good on Angela Rayner on 21:55 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue
This is playing out like all political debates on TWTD.
If you are Reform or Tory, then Angela Rayner is guilty as sin and should be shamed and sacked, before any investigation has been carried out and the regulator have published their findings. This, despite spending years bending over backwards trying to give the benefit of doubt to Tories accused of dodgy dealings or Farage’s dodgy finances.
If you are a Labour loyalist then you will bend over backwards to give Angela Rayner the benefit of the doubt despite screaming for any Tory to be shamed and sacked before any investigation had been carried out and the regulator had published their conclusions.
All tribal and all pretty pointless from both sides.
Thanks for that summary Tory boy
1
Very good on Angela Rayner on 00:29 - Sep 5 with 1046 views
1. She's filled in a questionnaire from the solicitor and told them she doesn't own any other properties because she believed that she didn't own any other properties, without taking advice.
2. The solicitor has therefore calculated the Stamp Duty and filed the SDLT return on this basis.
3. It turns out that she should have gone to any half decent tax adviser or accountant who would have quickly told her the nuance in the legislation and that she needs to pay the higher rate.
4. Being in high office, and clearly with a complicated situation going on with a house in trust, she should probably have known to check whether there were SDLT implications when buying a second home.
5. She's probably been a bit economical with the truth about seeking advice when buying the flat and has thrown the solicitor under the bus.
6. At no point has she attempted knowingly to evade tax. She's been naive and it's bitter her in the arse... it happens.
7. Life goes on. She gives more than she takes.
8. Next drama please.
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Very good on Angela Rayner on 07:22 - Sep 5 with 831 views
1. She's filled in a questionnaire from the solicitor and told them she doesn't own any other properties because she believed that she didn't own any other properties, without taking advice.
2. The solicitor has therefore calculated the Stamp Duty and filed the SDLT return on this basis.
3. It turns out that she should have gone to any half decent tax adviser or accountant who would have quickly told her the nuance in the legislation and that she needs to pay the higher rate.
4. Being in high office, and clearly with a complicated situation going on with a house in trust, she should probably have known to check whether there were SDLT implications when buying a second home.
5. She's probably been a bit economical with the truth about seeking advice when buying the flat and has thrown the solicitor under the bus.
6. At no point has she attempted knowingly to evade tax. She's been naive and it's bitter her in the arse... it happens.
7. Life goes on. She gives more than she takes.
8. Next drama please.
Yep, feels like an error on her part quite possibly innocently, but really her position is surely untenable after two murky property deals she has to go just for the optics.
Very good on Angela Rayner on 20:59 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue
It's her position as Deputy Leader that could be a big problem for Starmer. He could end up with somebody he isn't particularly comfortable with.
Certainly could be. If she makes it to conference I’ll be surprised, unless she’s more useful to him as someone to bridge to the left of the party. Who knows; I’ve given up trying to work out what they’re doing or why.
Very good on Angela Rayner on 07:22 - Sep 5 by LeoMuff
Yep, feels like an error on her part quite possibly innocently, but really her position is surely untenable after two murky property deals she has to go just for the optics.
She certainly doesn't seem popular in her constituency.
"However, there was little sympathy in her constituency on Thursday morning, with shoppers in Ashton almost unanimously calling for her resignation."
I predict she will be gone by the end of next week, if not sooner.
EDIT: As an aside, I have always taken the view that those behind the Starmer project don't like Rayner, which may well explain the briefings against her in the last year or so. In my view, their man to replace Starmer would be Wes, but with Rayner popular amongst members they couldn't guarantee Wes's success. No doubt they are cock-a-hoop about Rayner's recent problems. Indeed, on the Radio 4 news last night, Nick Watts suggested Starmer was doing all he could at the moment to suggest support for her, in order not to alienate her, but was anticipating getting rid of her when her position became untenable.
[Post edited 5 Sep 7:44]
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Very good on Angela Rayner on 07:39 - Sep 5 with 760 views
"However, there was little sympathy in her constituency on Thursday morning, with shoppers in Ashton almost unanimously calling for her resignation."
I predict she will be gone by the end of next week, if not sooner.
EDIT: As an aside, I have always taken the view that those behind the Starmer project don't like Rayner, which may well explain the briefings against her in the last year or so. In my view, their man to replace Starmer would be Wes, but with Rayner popular amongst members they couldn't guarantee Wes's success. No doubt they are cock-a-hoop about Rayner's recent problems. Indeed, on the Radio 4 news last night, Nick Watts suggested Starmer was doing all he could at the moment to suggest support for her, in order not to alienate her, but was anticipating getting rid of her when her position became untenable.
[Post edited 5 Sep 7:44]
Poor old Carroll‘s going to have a shock when she finds out the lengths Farage goes to to avoid paying tax…
Very good on Angela Rayner on 21:55 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue
This is playing out like all political debates on TWTD.
If you are Reform or Tory, then Angela Rayner is guilty as sin and should be shamed and sacked, before any investigation has been carried out and the regulator have published their findings. This, despite spending years bending over backwards trying to give the benefit of doubt to Tories accused of dodgy dealings or Farage’s dodgy finances.
If you are a Labour loyalist then you will bend over backwards to give Angela Rayner the benefit of the doubt despite screaming for any Tory to be shamed and sacked before any investigation had been carried out and the regulator had published their conclusions.
All tribal and all pretty pointless from both sides.
Im definitely not reform or tory, and think that this looks pretty poor from Rayner. Just to buck that trend a little!
You're right about the tribalism in politics, but it isnt just on here, it's the whole of society and it's dreadful.
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
Very good on Angela Rayner on 20:22 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue
They haven't broken client confidentiality.
I can see a situation along lines of:
JC: Do you own any other properties
AR: No [I have sold my share of previous house]
JC: Ok, we will work out your stamp duty on that
If AR hasn't disclosed this trust, which is likely her responsibility, it is one of those ones that falls between 2 stools......she doesn't own another property, she divested in that to buy this one as her main property but obviously needed to speak to someone about the details of trust owning a kids home etc
Feels an easy mistake to make, and can see why she has ended like this - but the pressure will become too much to bear whatever happens in ethics investigation.
Hopefully Housing can get a Minister as effective as she is currently as such an important department
Very good on Angela Rayner on 08:56 - Sep 5 by itfcjoe
I can see a situation along lines of:
JC: Do you own any other properties
AR: No [I have sold my share of previous house]
JC: Ok, we will work out your stamp duty on that
If AR hasn't disclosed this trust, which is likely her responsibility, it is one of those ones that falls between 2 stools......she doesn't own another property, she divested in that to buy this one as her main property but obviously needed to speak to someone about the details of trust owning a kids home etc
Feels an easy mistake to make, and can see why she has ended like this - but the pressure will become too much to bear whatever happens in ethics investigation.
Hopefully Housing can get a Minister as effective as she is currently as such an important department
When she sold her portion of the 'main' property to the trust a solicitor/trust expert would be involved. There would have advice given then. I'm sure that would be in a letter and/or email, all she has to is publish that advice.
When she purchased this 2nd property she claimed she obtained advice, again simply publish it.
But still the problem is.. She is the Secretary of State for housing, Stamp Duty is a tax on housing. If the Secretary of State for housing doesn't understand the tax rules related to housing, how the hell is anybody else going to.
Also she has previously condemned ministers who have claimed they made mistakes within the subject they're minister for. Even to the point she is on record saying their position is untenable and they should resign. Yes, admittedly not 100% the same, but politics is like life, you sometimes reap what you sow, and you're judged on what you've said previously.
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Very good on Angela Rayner on 09:41 - Sep 5 with 352 views
Very good on Angela Rayner on 21:55 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue
This is playing out like all political debates on TWTD.
If you are Reform or Tory, then Angela Rayner is guilty as sin and should be shamed and sacked, before any investigation has been carried out and the regulator have published their findings. This, despite spending years bending over backwards trying to give the benefit of doubt to Tories accused of dodgy dealings or Farage’s dodgy finances.
If you are a Labour loyalist then you will bend over backwards to give Angela Rayner the benefit of the doubt despite screaming for any Tory to be shamed and sacked before any investigation had been carried out and the regulator had published their conclusions.
All tribal and all pretty pointless from both sides.
When you've lost James O'Brien you know the game is up.
Very good on Angela Rayner on 09:10 - Sep 5 by BloomBlue
When she sold her portion of the 'main' property to the trust a solicitor/trust expert would be involved. There would have advice given then. I'm sure that would be in a letter and/or email, all she has to is publish that advice.
When she purchased this 2nd property she claimed she obtained advice, again simply publish it.
But still the problem is.. She is the Secretary of State for housing, Stamp Duty is a tax on housing. If the Secretary of State for housing doesn't understand the tax rules related to housing, how the hell is anybody else going to.
Also she has previously condemned ministers who have claimed they made mistakes within the subject they're minister for. Even to the point she is on record saying their position is untenable and they should resign. Yes, admittedly not 100% the same, but politics is like life, you sometimes reap what you sow, and you're judged on what you've said previously.
Not convinced someone setting up the trust would have advised on potential sdlt ramifications of a notional future purchase. Certainly under no duty to do so. Your last para is rather confused. You say to judge as you have judged others whilst noting that the situations are different...m
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Very good on Angela Rayner on 09:45 - Sep 5 with 341 views
Very good on Angela Rayner on 09:10 - Sep 5 by BloomBlue
When she sold her portion of the 'main' property to the trust a solicitor/trust expert would be involved. There would have advice given then. I'm sure that would be in a letter and/or email, all she has to is publish that advice.
When she purchased this 2nd property she claimed she obtained advice, again simply publish it.
But still the problem is.. She is the Secretary of State for housing, Stamp Duty is a tax on housing. If the Secretary of State for housing doesn't understand the tax rules related to housing, how the hell is anybody else going to.
Also she has previously condemned ministers who have claimed they made mistakes within the subject they're minister for. Even to the point she is on record saying their position is untenable and they should resign. Yes, admittedly not 100% the same, but politics is like life, you sometimes reap what you sow, and you're judged on what you've said previously.
What sort of advice do you think she would have got when selling her share to the trust? Some form of communication that says "watch out if you buy another property, this trust thing might mean higher rate SDLT is due?" It might have been provided, it might not. Depends on what kind of job Shoosmiths did, and whether they're in the habit of dishing out unsolicited advice for nothing.
It's possible to make a case that getting the conveyancer to calculate the applicable SDLT based on information you provide is using them for 'tax advice'. You're asking someone to work out how much (of one specific) tax is due.
By using the HMRC calculator and telling the client "your SDLT liability is £X" that conveyancing firm is providing tax advice, albeit basic advice about one specific tax.
I think she's been naïve and a bit sloppy given the trust situation.
And Joe's comment about her being an effective housing minister is interesting. Suggests that the job of housing minister isn't about being familiar with the minutiae of housing tax law but devising and implementing effective housing policy.
1
Very good on Angela Rayner on 09:50 - Sep 5 with 314 views
Very good on Angela Rayner on 21:55 - Sep 4 by GlasgowBlue
This is playing out like all political debates on TWTD.
If you are Reform or Tory, then Angela Rayner is guilty as sin and should be shamed and sacked, before any investigation has been carried out and the regulator have published their findings. This, despite spending years bending over backwards trying to give the benefit of doubt to Tories accused of dodgy dealings or Farage’s dodgy finances.
If you are a Labour loyalist then you will bend over backwards to give Angela Rayner the benefit of the doubt despite screaming for any Tory to be shamed and sacked before any investigation had been carried out and the regulator had published their conclusions.
All tribal and all pretty pointless from both sides.
Obviously true, and that's how politics works whether we like it or not, so you can understand it for those who are politicians, councillors or affiliated party members. But that leaves a huge majority of people who are just citizens. How have they become so polarised? It is so much better thinking for yourself and coming to your own conclusions just for your own soul if nothing else.
Very good on Angela Rayner on 10:02 - Sep 5 by Rimsy
Happy to debate anything. Being shouted down as right wing, or racist or whatever is not debating though. Never read the Daily mail in my life.
It's also tax avoidance Top Trumps from that particular poster, based on their political leanings.
We don't know the outcome of the Rayner case yet but if £40,000 tax has been intentionally avoided then the principle is the same, regardless of the amount involved.
If I rob somebody's home and steal £40,000 their possessions and somebody else robs somebody's home and steals £5 million it doesn't make me a better person. I'm still a thief.
"However, there was little sympathy in her constituency on Thursday morning, with shoppers in Ashton almost unanimously calling for her resignation."
I predict she will be gone by the end of next week, if not sooner.
EDIT: As an aside, I have always taken the view that those behind the Starmer project don't like Rayner, which may well explain the briefings against her in the last year or so. In my view, their man to replace Starmer would be Wes, but with Rayner popular amongst members they couldn't guarantee Wes's success. No doubt they are cock-a-hoop about Rayner's recent problems. Indeed, on the Radio 4 news last night, Nick Watts suggested Starmer was doing all he could at the moment to suggest support for her, in order not to alienate her, but was anticipating getting rid of her when her position became untenable.
[Post edited 5 Sep 7:44]
Streeting is one of the least popular frontbenchers with Labour members in poll after poll. Only way he succeeds Starmer is if they somehow engineer either a no-contest.
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