| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf 21:08 - Sep 9 with 8144 views | chantryblueboy |
LOL |  | | |  |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:10 - Sep 10 with 760 views | Garv |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 08:51 - Sep 10 by pointofblue |
This is a wide perception but I don't think Woolfenden really looked out of his depth in the Premier League? I actually thought he took a step forward.
As anyone who has been bored and/or driven senseless by my posts over the last year I do wish we'd stuck with a back three for longer last season. |
I agree on both those points, we should have moved away from the back four earlier in my view.
I just think O'Shea is a stronger and generally better PL CB than Wolfy. |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:12 - Sep 10 with 762 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 08:10 - Sep 10 by BloomBlue |
Both have good and bad points.
My argument against O'Shea last season is we bought him for £20m (if you include addons) to replace Wolf, who we had for free, was O'Shea a 20x better player than Wolf, No.
Was he even a slight improvement on Wolf, No
Hence I always felt we could have remained with Wolf and spent O'Shea's £20m on a different position, and it wouldn't have a negative on our defensive performances.
Once O'Shea was named captain this season, then Wolf knew his playing time was only going to be cup games and/or if O'Shea was injured. |
Was Hutchinson 20X the player of Burns?
Was Delap 20X the player of Hirst?
The answer to this question will always be no because transfer fees are not based on an exact system that tells us the quality of each player.
Akpom is not going to be 7X the player of Chaplin
Furlong is not going to be however many X the player of Tuanzebe
Walle Egeli is not going to be 20X the player of Burns
You could go on all day trying to re-spend money where we might have got it slightly wrong or got better value for money.
The higher up you get, the bigger the fees and the less room for error. [Post edited 10 Sep 9:17]
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:26 - Sep 10 with 720 views | bsw72 |
You could argue that if Woolfenden believed in himself and thought he was better then he could have stayed and battled for his place . . . |  | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:36 - Sep 10 with 689 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:12 - Sep 10 by Bellevue_Blue |
Was Hutchinson 20X the player of Burns?
Was Delap 20X the player of Hirst?
The answer to this question will always be no because transfer fees are not based on an exact system that tells us the quality of each player.
Akpom is not going to be 7X the player of Chaplin
Furlong is not going to be however many X the player of Tuanzebe
Walle Egeli is not going to be 20X the player of Burns
You could go on all day trying to re-spend money where we might have got it slightly wrong or got better value for money.
The higher up you get, the bigger the fees and the less room for error. [Post edited 10 Sep 9:17]
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Completely agree.
Also, it's about increments and improving the team or shaping it the way the manager wants. Not about arbitrary better and worse and how much overall. If the team is lacking leaders and we spend more on a player the same in every way but has leadership then that could still be 'worth' the extra. |  | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:55 - Sep 10 with 640 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:00 - Sep 10 by NthQldITFC |
What a great response to my somewhat OTT post earlier. I've already reconsidered and realised that things I'm dealing with at the moment made me far too tetchy this morning. Your maturity in this now has actually brightened my day, ta, and apologies. |
Can I just on a whole this thread has in general been a pleasure to be involved in. Some strong counter points but a genuine exchange of thoughts. |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:58 - Sep 10 with 647 views | ArnieM |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:53 - Sep 9 by LeoMuff |
Think Wolfy has been brought as back up , so might not get much game time. |
For all the accolades by some on here,
(totally disproportintate), he is just that, a back up player. If he was really a top class defender as the blue bespeckled brigade would have us all believe, then more than Coventry and Watford would have been in for him. I'd say Ashton did very well to get £4m for him, because you can be sure Coventry didnt offer £4m but were dragged up to the fuzzy heights of £4m by Ashton b4 we'd let him leave.
Woolfy might look easy on the eye on the ball, but hes very pedestrian on the ball, and as for actually " defending" hes bang average, as ive been stating for seasons. Seems McKenna views it the same by getting in O'Shea... and we all trust McKenna, don't we!! |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:03 - Sep 10 with 639 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:58 - Sep 10 by ArnieM |
For all the accolades by some on here,
(totally disproportintate), he is just that, a back up player. If he was really a top class defender as the blue bespeckled brigade would have us all believe, then more than Coventry and Watford would have been in for him. I'd say Ashton did very well to get £4m for him, because you can be sure Coventry didnt offer £4m but were dragged up to the fuzzy heights of £4m by Ashton b4 we'd let him leave.
Woolfy might look easy on the eye on the ball, but hes very pedestrian on the ball, and as for actually " defending" hes bang average, as ive been stating for seasons. Seems McKenna views it the same by getting in O'Shea... and we all trust McKenna, don't we!! |
Yeah you've been slating Wolfy for seasons and have been collecting a fair few downarrows for it (because you're wrong). |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:29 - Sep 10 with 599 views | ArnieM |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:03 - Sep 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah you've been slating Wolfy for seasons and have been collecting a fair few downarrows for it (because you're wrong). |
Its an opinion, and if im so wrong hiw cone hes gone to Coventry for £4m especially given the ridiculous inflated transfer market these days, and we could " only" get £4m. . If he was REALLY as good as done on here say, McKenna would have been playing him every week wouldnt he? So who's "wrong"? | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:41 - Sep 10 with 572 views | BlueForYou |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 21:34 - Sep 9 by TheBoyBlue |
Agreed. Sad as I was to see Burgess and Wolfie leave, the defence hasn't been the issue this season. |
It was against Derby County. |  | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:44 - Sep 10 with 558 views | DJR |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:41 - Sep 10 by BlueForYou |
It was against Derby County. |
I think there is a case for saying that all the goals we have conceded this season have been rather self-inflicted, but we have the players we have, so let's just hope we can tighten things up. |  | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:45 - Sep 10 with 555 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:29 - Sep 10 by ArnieM |
Its an opinion, and if im so wrong hiw cone hes gone to Coventry for £4m especially given the ridiculous inflated transfer market these days, and we could " only" get £4m. . If he was REALLY as good as done on here say, McKenna would have been playing him every week wouldnt he? So who's "wrong"? |
McKenna replaced him for the Premier League, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. We certainly had to try to improve the whole team, so it was fair to try to upgrade where possible.
It actually seems he wanted Wolfy to stay. Wolfy himself is the one who's pushed this move. If O'Shea hadn't stayed, Wolfy WOULD have been playing every week.
I'd say the slightly low fee is more to do with our desperation to get the squad size down so close to the window closing. Coventry were in the right place at the right time and we couldn't chance hanging about. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:48 - Sep 10 with 536 views | Bluemike31 |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 09:58 - Sep 10 by ArnieM |
For all the accolades by some on here,
(totally disproportintate), he is just that, a back up player. If he was really a top class defender as the blue bespeckled brigade would have us all believe, then more than Coventry and Watford would have been in for him. I'd say Ashton did very well to get £4m for him, because you can be sure Coventry didnt offer £4m but were dragged up to the fuzzy heights of £4m by Ashton b4 we'd let him leave.
Woolfy might look easy on the eye on the ball, but hes very pedestrian on the ball, and as for actually " defending" hes bang average, as ive been stating for seasons. Seems McKenna views it the same by getting in O'Shea... and we all trust McKenna, don't we!! |
I have never understood the love in for Woolfy, how many managers is it now that didn't really see him as a mainstay in the side ?
he has always been at best an average and very limited defender, how many times have we seen that bone crunching tackle on an attacker, or that bullet header in the opponents box, or that heroic last ditch block or header away in our own box ? Not very often over the years.
For me he is way too laid back, pedestrian and safe, never finds that telling pass, always safe and tippy tappy sideways balls, never takes responsibility, we all know only too well how guilty he is of letting the ball bounce in ridiculous areas only to get caught out and punished.
I naturally wish him nothing but the best but I am not sad or sorry that he has gone, I suspect if he wasn't a local lad not many on here would feel that sorry either, despite what is written. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:13 - Sep 10 with 484 views | franz_tyson |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:45 - Sep 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
McKenna replaced him for the Premier League, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. We certainly had to try to improve the whole team, so it was fair to try to upgrade where possible.
It actually seems he wanted Wolfy to stay. Wolfy himself is the one who's pushed this move. If O'Shea hadn't stayed, Wolfy WOULD have been playing every week.
I'd say the slightly low fee is more to do with our desperation to get the squad size down so close to the window closing. Coventry were in the right place at the right time and we couldn't chance hanging about. |
"If O'Shea hadn't stayed, Wolfy WOULD have been playing every week."
I don't think that's true at all. Don't really think McKenna fancies Woolfy as a starting player. If O'Shea gets injured, Kipre is likely to start in front of Woolfy.
I thought Woolfy did well when called upon in tbe PL, but it's obvious McKenna doesn't really see him as nothing more than a back up.
I genuinely believe Woolfy has been over-hyped a bit as this Rolls-Royce player who's the Suffolk Beckebauer. A Rolls Royce defender is someone who can effortlessly shift gears and over power and outrun strikers - but he couldn't do that, even he's no slouch or pushover. He has good feet, but I think he's overrated as to his contribution to passing out from defence. We miss Morsy more for that.
Would have been very happy Woolfy being a back up player here, but I'll stick with Kierans judgement on O'Shea and Woolfy, even though O'Shea isn't 20 times better than Woolfy - I think he is an obvious upgrade. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:25 - Sep 10 with 456 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 10:48 - Sep 10 by Bluemike31 |
I have never understood the love in for Woolfy, how many managers is it now that didn't really see him as a mainstay in the side ?
he has always been at best an average and very limited defender, how many times have we seen that bone crunching tackle on an attacker, or that bullet header in the opponents box, or that heroic last ditch block or header away in our own box ? Not very often over the years.
For me he is way too laid back, pedestrian and safe, never finds that telling pass, always safe and tippy tappy sideways balls, never takes responsibility, we all know only too well how guilty he is of letting the ball bounce in ridiculous areas only to get caught out and punished.
I naturally wish him nothing but the best but I am not sad or sorry that he has gone, I suspect if he wasn't a local lad not many on here would feel that sorry either, despite what is written. |
He made the most appearances for every single manager since and including Lambert, up until last season | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:39 - Sep 10 with 397 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:13 - Sep 10 by franz_tyson |
"If O'Shea hadn't stayed, Wolfy WOULD have been playing every week."
I don't think that's true at all. Don't really think McKenna fancies Woolfy as a starting player. If O'Shea gets injured, Kipre is likely to start in front of Woolfy.
I thought Woolfy did well when called upon in tbe PL, but it's obvious McKenna doesn't really see him as nothing more than a back up.
I genuinely believe Woolfy has been over-hyped a bit as this Rolls-Royce player who's the Suffolk Beckebauer. A Rolls Royce defender is someone who can effortlessly shift gears and over power and outrun strikers - but he couldn't do that, even he's no slouch or pushover. He has good feet, but I think he's overrated as to his contribution to passing out from defence. We miss Morsy more for that.
Would have been very happy Woolfy being a back up player here, but I'll stick with Kierans judgement on O'Shea and Woolfy, even though O'Shea isn't 20 times better than Woolfy - I think he is an obvious upgrade. |
We'll never know, but when Wolfy was thrown in during the Prem season it was mostly against the real top sides (which at the time I thought was a bit unfair) but I thought he handled himself pretty well in those games. I don't really remember him letting us down last time in the Champ either. | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:46 - Sep 10 with 379 views | Kieran_Knows |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:25 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
He made the most appearances for every single manager since and including Lambert, up until last season |
Which begs the question as to what was it about his game that McKenna didn’t fancy playing him regularly in the Prem? |  |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:53 - Sep 10 with 358 views | MalcolmBlue |
I love Woolfy and Burgess as much as anyone but it’s easy to overlook that the last time we got promoted it was almost in spite of our defence. We didn’t even finish in the top six of goals against and won a lot of our games thanks to us out scoring our opponents. I think this point is being overlooked by the romantic view of our promotion winning team. [Post edited 10 Sep 11:55]
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:04 - Sep 10 with 324 views | franz_tyson |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:53 - Sep 10 by MalcolmBlue |
I love Woolfy and Burgess as much as anyone but it’s easy to overlook that the last time we got promoted it was almost in spite of our defence. We didn’t even finish in the top six of goals against and won a lot of our games thanks to us out scoring our opponents. I think this point is being overlooked by the romantic view of our promotion winning team. [Post edited 10 Sep 11:55]
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Exactly. We need to score more goals. Let's not sugar-coat it... both Greaves and O'Shea have mad mistakes that have seemingly cost us points, but Mckenna isn't George Graham II and wants 1-0 wins.
So far, I'm more worried about the front 4 misfiring. Let's hope tbe new signings breathe new life into our front line. Really not that bothered about O'Shea - him and Greaves will do OK. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:12 - Sep 10 with 297 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:46 - Sep 10 by Kieran_Knows |
Which begs the question as to what was it about his game that McKenna didn’t fancy playing him regularly in the Prem? |
We weren't going to control games or invite the press in the prem which kinda suited wolfy as he would bring the ball out and pass it around simply yet also invite the press too. Oshea is a bit more direct and he also has the advantages of heading. Pace etc.
Oshea isn't without faults. None of the defenders we have are and neither were the ones who left either.
What we have with oshea is a more all rounded defender where as wolfy is a ball playing cb who is suited when teams control the football. Imo | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:34 - Sep 10 with 254 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:46 - Sep 10 by Kieran_Knows |
Which begs the question as to what was it about his game that McKenna didn’t fancy playing him regularly in the Prem? |
Didn’t cost enough | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:44 - Sep 10 with 227 views | positivity |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:34 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
Didn’t cost enough |
or maybe mckenna and all the prem managers who didn't come in for wolf know more about football than yourself? | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:55 - Sep 10 with 195 views | chantryblueboy |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:44 - Sep 10 by positivity |
or maybe mckenna and all the prem managers who didn't come in for wolf know more about football than yourself? |
Even the great Kieran McKenna can make mistakes | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:57 - Sep 10 with 180 views | positivity |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:55 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
Even the great Kieran McKenna can make mistakes |
odd that all the prem managers are making exactly the same error too!
does the great chantryblueboy ever make mistakes? | |
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| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:03 - Sep 10 with 160 views | Everydayblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 12:34 - Sep 10 by chantryblueboy |
Didn’t cost enough |
Not worth enough, you mean?
Dry your eyes mate. LW has moved on. He's gone from our bench to Cov's bench.
KM has worked up close and personal with Wolfy for 3 seasons or more. Knows his limitations and rewarded him with a nice new contract and a squad role befitting of his place in the pecking order.
Picking on Dara's form, doesn't make Wolfy a better player.
Personally got more respect for Burgess.... Can't imagine Wolfy having half his face caved in , from sticking his head in where it hurts.
But he plays a lovely 3 yard sideways pass, I guess? Assuming there's no one within 20 yards of him.
Let's see how he does at Cov' without the benefit of Morsy in front of him.
Got absolutely schooled by Sinclair Armstrong last time round in Championship. If you want to talk about past performances....
Swings and Roundabouts. | | | |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 13:09 - Sep 10 with 134 views | pointofblue |
| There are people on here who think O’Shea is better than Wolf on 11:53 - Sep 10 by MalcolmBlue |
I love Woolfy and Burgess as much as anyone but it’s easy to overlook that the last time we got promoted it was almost in spite of our defence. We didn’t even finish in the top six of goals against and won a lot of our games thanks to us out scoring our opponents. I think this point is being overlooked by the romantic view of our promotion winning team. [Post edited 10 Sep 11:55]
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My argument is, in 23/24, teams played through midfield very easily which left the defence exposed. Same as last season. This season it feels like they're bypassing modified by going over the top, straight at the defence. | |
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