| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA 20:50 - Dec 3 with 1613 views | Bellevue_Blue |
Well drilled, exciting, full of real athletes able to cover loads of ground with real aerial quality in both boxes.
I understand we were in a different position but I'd be fascinated to understand what our leaders think of their success on the recruitment side but also the tactical side. |  | | |  |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 21:12 - Dec 3 with 1459 views | jontysnut |
I'm a fan of tempo in any sport. Nothing as miserable than watching plodding old England ( sideways and backwards), plodding old England Rugby (box kicks and territory) and, er, plodding Ipswich. Both Englands have started moving the ball more quickly and upping the pace. We have the players to do it. It is coachable. KM could learn something from their approach. |  | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 21:48 - Dec 3 with 1327 views | gainsboroughblue |
Both them and Leeds winning. |  |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 21:48 - Dec 3 with 1321 views | Denny32 |
It's sickening to see how they are adapting so well. In every game they make it look like its the other team have come up no excuses like. Players getting to know each other..or takes time to gel .. | | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 21:52 - Dec 3 with 1269 views | stickymockwell |
Its just like a re run of us in 2000/01! And we beat Liverpool 1 nil at Anfield. Both promoted via the playoffs too. |  |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:05 - Dec 3 with 1200 views | Swansea_Blue |
All three of us bottom clubs last year were making lots of excuses about the gap in quality to the PL. In hindsight and looking where we all are this year, plus how Sunderland have managed (although less so Leeds and Burnley), it looks like we all just got it wrong. Making the jump is difficult, but still doable if you get all things lined up. We got recruitment wrong and the jury’s out on whether KM has what it takes. |  |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:13 - Dec 3 with 1162 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:05 - Dec 3 by Swansea_Blue |
All three of us bottom clubs last year were making lots of excuses about the gap in quality to the PL. In hindsight and looking where we all are this year, plus how Sunderland have managed (although less so Leeds and Burnley), it looks like we all just got it wrong. Making the jump is difficult, but still doable if you get all things lined up. We got recruitment wrong and the jury’s out on whether KM has what it takes. |
That was obvious ages ago, too many excuses thrown around last year about what we could and could not get done for that level of spend. |  |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:14 - Dec 3 with 1148 views | Smoresy |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:05 - Dec 3 by Swansea_Blue |
All three of us bottom clubs last year were making lots of excuses about the gap in quality to the PL. In hindsight and looking where we all are this year, plus how Sunderland have managed (although less so Leeds and Burnley), it looks like we all just got it wrong. Making the jump is difficult, but still doable if you get all things lined up. We got recruitment wrong and the jury’s out on whether KM has what it takes. |
I don't think we did get the gap wrong fwiw. For me, returning to watch Championship football has been further confirmation of how big the gap is. | | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:18 - Dec 3 with 1114 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Recruitment Recruitment Recruitment
We are not good at it and if we want to progress as a club we need to improve. Massively. |  |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:23 - Dec 3 with 1072 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:14 - Dec 3 by Smoresy |
I don't think we did get the gap wrong fwiw. For me, returning to watch Championship football has been further confirmation of how big the gap is. |
I was thinking that because we’re struggling in a very poor league this year, that shows how unsuited this squad was to take on the PL. so we got the recruitment very wrong (or maybe it’s the coaching or both). OK, we lost a few players, but even with Hutch and Delap that only papers over the cracks. The bulk of the last year’s team were nowhere near up to PL level. Haven’t Sunderland pretty much replaced their whole side? That can be seen as an example of what successful recruitment looks like (so far!). | |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:25 - Dec 3 with 1060 views | NthQldITFC |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 21:12 - Dec 3 by jontysnut |
I'm a fan of tempo in any sport. Nothing as miserable than watching plodding old England ( sideways and backwards), plodding old England Rugby (box kicks and territory) and, er, plodding Ipswich. Both Englands have started moving the ball more quickly and upping the pace. We have the players to do it. It is coachable. KM could learn something from their approach. |
Competitive tap dancing has a smashing tempo. |  |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:35 - Dec 3 with 1010 views | Smoresy |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:23 - Dec 3 by Swansea_Blue |
I was thinking that because we’re struggling in a very poor league this year, that shows how unsuited this squad was to take on the PL. so we got the recruitment very wrong (or maybe it’s the coaching or both). OK, we lost a few players, but even with Hutch and Delap that only papers over the cracks. The bulk of the last year’s team were nowhere near up to PL level. Haven’t Sunderland pretty much replaced their whole side? That can be seen as an example of what successful recruitment looks like (so far!). |
Yeah that's my take, absolutely recruitment and possibly both. We have plenty in the squad who've been great at this level before. We only have a 40 year old who's been good at the level above.
Sunderland is new team plus Ballard, Isidor, Hume, a bit of Mayenda and Rigg, tiny snippet of O'Nein, to my knowledge. Oh and Le Fee if you count his loan signing last January, which came with a £20m mandatory purchase on promotion. Nobody else from the promotion squad gets a sniff I think. | | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 23:11 - Dec 3 with 888 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:13 - Dec 3 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
That was obvious ages ago, too many excuses thrown around last year about what we could and could not get done for that level of spend. |
We put so much emphasis on our deficiencies last season and so far this season, explaining in great depth why it would be impossible to compete, why it will be so hard to go back up etc etc. the narrative over the past couple od summers has been so defeatist that the team has lost its swagger. We play with fear and reluctance. |  | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 23:18 - Dec 3 with 848 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 23:11 - Dec 3 by FromReuserWithLove |
We put so much emphasis on our deficiencies last season and so far this season, explaining in great depth why it would be impossible to compete, why it will be so hard to go back up etc etc. the narrative over the past couple od summers has been so defeatist that the team has lost its swagger. We play with fear and reluctance. |
Seems that a lot of the fanbase are now realizing or at least acknowledging a lot the short comings since promotion and some big calls we clearly got very wrong.
Some people are brushing it aside for various reasons or attacking those that bring it up (some of us have been for a while) but when a club has been in doldrums for decades we really needed to get more of it right than we have. Ashton's own words when h was walking around the pitch in summer 2024, is it's more important to get the big money deals right. Of course they won't all work but the hit rate was poor for the cash invested IMO. As was some of the strategy.
I was surprised how many people were labelling the recruitment generally fine etc, not to call out people but that was the consensus from this board to podcasts, it really wasn't very good.
This year promotion was so important in a very poor league, I fear next year we might be in a worse position to make ago of it for a few reasons. I still think we should be all in this January to try and make it happen, we can figure out the rest later. [Post edited 3 Dec 23:21]
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 00:24 - Dec 4 with 717 views | Churchman |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 21:48 - Dec 3 by Denny32 |
It's sickening to see how they are adapting so well. In every game they make it look like its the other team have come up no excuses like. Players getting to know each other..or takes time to gel .. |
Why the jealously? Why not be pleased for them? |  | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 05:45 - Dec 4 with 580 views | ITFCSG |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:13 - Dec 3 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
That was obvious ages ago, too many excuses thrown around last year about what we could and could not get done for that level of spend. |
I brought up the same exact points last season and was attacked for it
“Unsurmountable gap”
“Not in the Prem for 20+ years”
“PL level players don’t want to join a newly promoted club”
blablabla
Best of all
“Relegation, we will come back in a better position to challenge in the PL”
Now the same lot of people are happily defending McK, MA & Co for massively underperforming in the Championship
How pathetic | | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 07:39 - Dec 4 with 458 views | andytown |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:35 - Dec 3 by Smoresy |
Yeah that's my take, absolutely recruitment and possibly both. We have plenty in the squad who've been great at this level before. We only have a 40 year old who's been good at the level above.
Sunderland is new team plus Ballard, Isidor, Hume, a bit of Mayenda and Rigg, tiny snippet of O'Nein, to my knowledge. Oh and Le Fee if you count his loan signing last January, which came with a £20m mandatory purchase on promotion. Nobody else from the promotion squad gets a sniff I think. |
Heard on radio yesterday that they may lose 7 players for the AFCON. Don’t know how many of those are first teamers. The championship squad players might get some time yet! | | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 11:17 - Dec 4 with 316 views | WestSussexBlue |
I hold my hands up, they look like they’ve adapted very well indeed. I had them down as relegation certainties along with Leeds and Burnley. Fair play to them. I’d like to know what the pundits think having gate crashed the elite set. | | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 11:30 - Dec 4 with 279 views | TractorJack |
It's very simple, they set up a good recruitment department a number of years before getting promoted. We're still trying to catch up. |  | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 11:45 - Dec 4 with 237 views | Herbivore |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:05 - Dec 3 by Swansea_Blue |
All three of us bottom clubs last year were making lots of excuses about the gap in quality to the PL. In hindsight and looking where we all are this year, plus how Sunderland have managed (although less so Leeds and Burnley), it looks like we all just got it wrong. Making the jump is difficult, but still doable if you get all things lined up. We got recruitment wrong and the jury’s out on whether KM has what it takes. |
Two of the three promoted sides will likely go down. Fair play to Sunderland, they've done well. You need things to go close to perfection as a newly promoted side, need your recruitment to be spot on, need some luck with fixtures and within games, and need to not have too many injuries to stretch your squad. They've had all that which has enabled them to make a great start and build some confidence while maintaining momentum. The other two are in stodgy form, despite Leeds' win last night (we also beat Chelsea, FFS).
I do also think it's also a slightly easier league this year. Quite a few middling sides lost big players and didn't replace them with like for like quality, others have had managerial changes, some have had both. Wolves last year started terribly but had real quality in their squad to turn it around, this year they've started terribly but have no quality to right the ship and that opens the door for at least one newly promoted side to stay up. |  |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 11:49 - Dec 4 with 208 views | bluesym |
I will always use the Kalvin Phillips signing as an example of how poor our recruitment was. An expensive gamble, a very big gamble at that,being a player who had done naff all for 2 years. A huge flop in probably the biggest area of the pitch we needed to upgrade on. |  |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 12:08 - Dec 4 with 162 views | Herbivore |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 11:49 - Dec 4 by bluesym |
I will always use the Kalvin Phillips signing as an example of how poor our recruitment was. An expensive gamble, a very big gamble at that,being a player who had done naff all for 2 years. A huge flop in probably the biggest area of the pitch we needed to upgrade on. |
He was a gamble but not a ridiculous one other than with hindsight. He has/had top end Prem ability and was a regular for England. He'd had a tough couple of years but with McKenna's ability to get the best out of players even an 80% Kalvin Phillips would have been an excellent signing for us. He'd had a decent preseason with City too. It didn't work out, he struggled with his fitness and only showed the odd glimpse of his ability, but for a side coming up that's the kind of gamble you have to take. | |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 12:10 - Dec 4 with 155 views | itfc48 |
It definitely helped that their manager knows the French league inside out. A lot of value in that league if you know where to look. | | | |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 12:14 - Dec 4 with 141 views | monty_radio |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 22:05 - Dec 3 by Swansea_Blue |
All three of us bottom clubs last year were making lots of excuses about the gap in quality to the PL. In hindsight and looking where we all are this year, plus how Sunderland have managed (although less so Leeds and Burnley), it looks like we all just got it wrong. Making the jump is difficult, but still doable if you get all things lined up. We got recruitment wrong and the jury’s out on whether KM has what it takes. |
Were we perhaps too much in thrall to the idea that because our backers had invested a lot, and we had come from nothing in terms of investment and financial strength, we felt, rightly or wrongly, that we had to go for these young players with assumed guaranteed sell-on value? | |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 12:15 - Dec 4 with 140 views | bluesym |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 12:08 - Dec 4 by Herbivore |
He was a gamble but not a ridiculous one other than with hindsight. He has/had top end Prem ability and was a regular for England. He'd had a tough couple of years but with McKenna's ability to get the best out of players even an 80% Kalvin Phillips would have been an excellent signing for us. He'd had a decent preseason with City too. It didn't work out, he struggled with his fitness and only showed the odd glimpse of his ability, but for a side coming up that's the kind of gamble you have to take. |
I respectfully disagree. I dont see in any way why it was a gamble we 'had to take,' n such a key area and at such a cost. | |
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| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 12:24 - Dec 4 with 116 views | Herbivore |
| Watching Sunderland - A penny for the thoughts of KM/ MA on 12:15 - Dec 4 by bluesym |
I respectfully disagree. I dont see in any way why it was a gamble we 'had to take,' n such a key area and at such a cost. |
Fair enough, but CMs with proven Prem quality don't grow on trees and aren't easy for newly promoted clubs to find. Sunderland have pulled a blinder getting Xhaka in but I doubt he was available last summer and he will be earning a huge whack. Luton took a gamble on Barkley the year before who, like Phillips, had pedigree but had a terrible couple of years prior to joining them. That gamble paid off, ours didn't. It happens. As I said, I think it's a fair bit of hindsight bias to be so critical of the decision to sign him. | |
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