| Venezuela under attack (n/t) 06:40 - Jan 3 with 18100 views | Perublue |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:29 - Jan 3 with 1204 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:24 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
The point is that the checks and balances are simply not there any more. Who knows how far that can go?
There has been a bit of push-back on some elements of policy, but when it comes to maintaining power overall, that is a different matter. We've already seen what he is prepared to attempt (a full-on storming of Congress, pressure upon Governors to amend election results). This time around he has far more of his own people in place. There is always the issue in bipolar US politics that if Republicans don't back their man, the Democrats will win. Full stop. No narrow majorities requiring careful compromise, at the Executive level.
Trump doesn't care about the people who do not support him. They are BAD and WRONG, so can be ignored - if not railed against and depicted as traitors. |
Might point isn't about checks and balances which I totally agree have been eroded to almost nothing.
My point is you are going to get trouble if you declare that 75m Americans voted for terrorists. There are going to be many who aren't going to take that. At the moment they might tut and shake their heads but they aren't directly involved, that would be directly involving them.
It's more complicated than Republicans just backing their man, they need independents as well and they have lost them so he will need to try something crazy.
SB |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:30 - Jan 3 with 1203 views | Guthrum |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:19 - Jan 3 by NthQldITFC |
Nevertheless, a lot of them do have consciences, which must be feeling a little uncomfortable at least. |
I don't think they do have consciences, any more than electors in the UK. Self-interest is king, people have been taught that since the 1980s*.
* When it really broke into the open. Had begun post-War and gained in strength during the 1960s. Largely down to a reaction against what unquestioning support of the state had done in the first half of the century. But, as always, the pendulum swung too far. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:38 - Jan 3 with 1156 views | Guthrum |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:29 - Jan 3 by StokieBlue |
Might point isn't about checks and balances which I totally agree have been eroded to almost nothing.
My point is you are going to get trouble if you declare that 75m Americans voted for terrorists. There are going to be many who aren't going to take that. At the moment they might tut and shake their heads but they aren't directly involved, that would be directly involving them.
It's more complicated than Republicans just backing their man, they need independents as well and they have lost them so he will need to try something crazy.
SB |
Yes, there would be massive civil unrest - and a decision to be made by local authorities (and possibly eventually the military) as to how they react. Wouldn't surprise me if more people tried to assassinate Trump and other senior MAGA types.
A dreadful mess, possibly costing many lives and destroying the USA's economic and diplomatic status in the world. Maybe even its integrity as a nation. But that won't stop them trying it. Miller et al are revolutionary ideologues, not pragmatists. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:41 - Jan 3 with 1145 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:38 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
Yes, there would be massive civil unrest - and a decision to be made by local authorities (and possibly eventually the military) as to how they react. Wouldn't surprise me if more people tried to assassinate Trump and other senior MAGA types.
A dreadful mess, possibly costing many lives and destroying the USA's economic and diplomatic status in the world. Maybe even its integrity as a nation. But that won't stop them trying it. Miller et al are revolutionary ideologues, not pragmatists. |
And they already have the mechanisms in place to deal with it. Military on the streets, ICE teams to abduct agitators etc. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:43 - Jan 3 with 1143 views | NthQldITFC |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:30 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
I don't think they do have consciences, any more than electors in the UK. Self-interest is king, people have been taught that since the 1980s*.
* When it really broke into the open. Had begun post-War and gained in strength during the 1960s. Largely down to a reaction against what unquestioning support of the state had done in the first half of the century. But, as always, the pendulum swung too far. |
I guess that's true to some extent, but what I'm really suggesting is that of the crude (sic) 50% who voted R last time, I would expect a small but significant proportion to feel enough shame and disgust at the way things have gone / are going, to take a long hard look at themselves in the context of what their grandparents and earlier forebears fought for.
Sure, 'self-interest' has meant superficial consumer-orientated stuff for a shameful few decades, but 'self-interest' by definition includes having a viable world to be a 'self' on. (This applies to wars and environmental destruction, of course.) |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:50 - Jan 3 with 1102 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:41 - Jan 3 by redrickstuhaart |
And they already have the mechanisms in place to deal with it. Military on the streets, ICE teams to abduct agitators etc. |
Do you think that would be enough to deal with mass civil unrest in the millions? It's not going to be small protests if they banned the Democratic party.
Also a big difference between military on the streets and military firing on their own citizens. Some of those citizens could be family members or the military person might be a democrat.
It's more complicated than you are making out.
SB | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:51 - Jan 3 with 1092 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:43 - Jan 3 by NthQldITFC |
I guess that's true to some extent, but what I'm really suggesting is that of the crude (sic) 50% who voted R last time, I would expect a small but significant proportion to feel enough shame and disgust at the way things have gone / are going, to take a long hard look at themselves in the context of what their grandparents and earlier forebears fought for.
Sure, 'self-interest' has meant superficial consumer-orientated stuff for a shameful few decades, but 'self-interest' by definition includes having a viable world to be a 'self' on. (This applies to wars and environmental destruction, of course.) |
The echo chambers they are in may well prevent that sort of introspection. With the support of Musk etc, Trump is ensuring that people are constantly fed a "them and us" narrative, scaring people with ideas of communist muslims taking over cities, crimewaves, allies like the UK being overun with knifecrime comitted by foreigners. etc etc. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:54 - Jan 3 with 1064 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:50 - Jan 3 by StokieBlue |
Do you think that would be enough to deal with mass civil unrest in the millions? It's not going to be small protests if they banned the Democratic party.
Also a big difference between military on the streets and military firing on their own citizens. Some of those citizens could be family members or the military person might be a democrat.
It's more complicated than you are making out.
SB |
I havent made out that its not complicated.
The mechanisms are there. The risk is genuine.
Who would have thoguh, two years ago, that these ICE abduction teams in masks would eb a real thing in the US? And yet here it is, normalised, in plain sight. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:55 - Jan 3 with 1062 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:51 - Jan 3 by redrickstuhaart |
The echo chambers they are in may well prevent that sort of introspection. With the support of Musk etc, Trump is ensuring that people are constantly fed a "them and us" narrative, scaring people with ideas of communist muslims taking over cities, crimewaves, allies like the UK being overun with knifecrime comitted by foreigners. etc etc. |
But we can an example (probably more) of how quickly Republicans can turn when they aren't getting what they want or are attacked.
MTG was a super-MAGA, absolutely behind the Trump project and now she's doing this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/
You're right that the echo-chambers are a real problem but many will have conflicting reports now where they see stuff from people like MTG and Trump and they don't align.
SB | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:03 - Jan 3 with 1033 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:09 - Jan 3 by Samuelowen88 |
At what point does Amercia become a terrorist state? |
1776? |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:43 - Jan 3 with 959 views | NthQldITFC |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:51 - Jan 3 by redrickstuhaart |
The echo chambers they are in may well prevent that sort of introspection. With the support of Musk etc, Trump is ensuring that people are constantly fed a "them and us" narrative, scaring people with ideas of communist muslims taking over cities, crimewaves, allies like the UK being overun with knifecrime comitted by foreigners. etc etc. |
OK, a very small and possibly insignificant proportion then. 
And I suppose others being sucked into that fascist enabling sector.
Christ! I'd just cheered myself up with a nice cold walk and saw a beautiful bright kingfisher. I suppose she was pretty cheesed off too, what with the sticklebacks having half an inch of icy armour above 'em! | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:55 - Jan 3 with 918 views | Pinewoodblue |
Those Epstein files must be really bad, Trump has played his last card.
Looking ahead you have to be concerned about the safety of Zelenskyy, surely there is a strong chance Putin will follows Trump’s example.
Have a feeling Trump’s actions will also make US citizens targets in many parts of the world. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:57 - Jan 3 with 911 views | LeoMuff |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:55 - Jan 3 by Pinewoodblue |
Those Epstein files must be really bad, Trump has played his last card.
Looking ahead you have to be concerned about the safety of Zelenskyy, surely there is a strong chance Putin will follows Trump’s example.
Have a feeling Trump’s actions will also make US citizens targets in many parts of the world. |
If they can do this to another sovereign state, Im pretty sure any incriminating Epstein files will not see the light of day |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:59 - Jan 3 with 908 views | Churchman |
It’s important that Trump controls the media and he’s made great strides in doing that. It’s also crucial that he muzzles and removes all internal opposition by disposing or discrediting anyone he sees fit from Obama to Charles Manson as soon as possible.
Threats to him? All internal so it’s all about control inside the US because external control is easy pickings, providing he comes to an arrangement with the big dogs in the room, China and Russia. The European invertebrates are hardly going to trouble his nights sleep in his ghastly shtpit Mar a Lunatic.
Like all dictators, he is afraid. To dampen his fear, perceived opposition or anyone of his henchmen getting too powerful means they have to go. Same as Putin. Retirement, heart attacks, falling out of windows you name it. He will stop at nothing.
Edit: I see that the leader of a foreign country and his wife will be put on trial having been kidnapped. See ‘Attorney General Pam Bondi says he has been indicted in New York on drugs and weapons charges and will "face the full wrath of American justice on American soil in American courts’.
So then, the fairest trial then since Captain Blackadder was tried by General Melchett for killing his plump breasted pigeon Speckled Jim. [Post edited 3 Jan 13:13]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:14 - Jan 3 with 856 views | lowhouseblue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:59 - Jan 3 by Churchman |
It’s important that Trump controls the media and he’s made great strides in doing that. It’s also crucial that he muzzles and removes all internal opposition by disposing or discrediting anyone he sees fit from Obama to Charles Manson as soon as possible.
Threats to him? All internal so it’s all about control inside the US because external control is easy pickings, providing he comes to an arrangement with the big dogs in the room, China and Russia. The European invertebrates are hardly going to trouble his nights sleep in his ghastly shtpit Mar a Lunatic.
Like all dictators, he is afraid. To dampen his fear, perceived opposition or anyone of his henchmen getting too powerful means they have to go. Same as Putin. Retirement, heart attacks, falling out of windows you name it. He will stop at nothing.
Edit: I see that the leader of a foreign country and his wife will be put on trial having been kidnapped. See ‘Attorney General Pam Bondi says he has been indicted in New York on drugs and weapons charges and will "face the full wrath of American justice on American soil in American courts’.
So then, the fairest trial then since Captain Blackadder was tried by General Melchett for killing his plump breasted pigeon Speckled Jim. [Post edited 3 Jan 13:13]
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this is satire isn't it? sometimes quite hard to be sure. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:34 - Jan 3 with 810 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:55 - Jan 3 by StokieBlue |
But we can an example (probably more) of how quickly Republicans can turn when they aren't getting what they want or are attacked.
MTG was a super-MAGA, absolutely behind the Trump project and now she's doing this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/
You're right that the echo-chambers are a real problem but many will have conflicting reports now where they see stuff from people like MTG and Trump and they don't align.
SB |
He’s lost Boebert too in the last couple of days.
A few MAGA foundations crumbling |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:39 - Jan 3 with 792 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 09:01 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
The "New Monroe Doctrine". Trump's advisors are very much into the 19th century colonial view of spheres of influence. That means political dominance as much as control of resources. The strategy document put out by the USA recently spelled all that out pretty clearly.
Trump himself doesn't care so long as he's on the front page of the papers. |
Yeah it’s more this - the stuff about oil is nonsense, the US is the world’s largest producer with a huge domestic industry, supporting huge numbers of jobs. The last thing they need is more production coming on tap at $60bbl (especially as domestic production is typically more expensive than many of their peers). Not to forget of course Venezuelan oil is sanctioned in a large part of the world, as are the tankers that export them (mostly to other dubious regimes), so quite useless to anyone.
Distraction politics and the opportunity to weaken an adversary, he’s also threatened to intervene in Iran if the regime attacks the protesters there. Not sure he’s going to get that Nobel prize… [Post edited 3 Jan 13:43]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:41 - Jan 3 with 782 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:59 - Jan 3 by Churchman |
It’s important that Trump controls the media and he’s made great strides in doing that. It’s also crucial that he muzzles and removes all internal opposition by disposing or discrediting anyone he sees fit from Obama to Charles Manson as soon as possible.
Threats to him? All internal so it’s all about control inside the US because external control is easy pickings, providing he comes to an arrangement with the big dogs in the room, China and Russia. The European invertebrates are hardly going to trouble his nights sleep in his ghastly shtpit Mar a Lunatic.
Like all dictators, he is afraid. To dampen his fear, perceived opposition or anyone of his henchmen getting too powerful means they have to go. Same as Putin. Retirement, heart attacks, falling out of windows you name it. He will stop at nothing.
Edit: I see that the leader of a foreign country and his wife will be put on trial having been kidnapped. See ‘Attorney General Pam Bondi says he has been indicted in New York on drugs and weapons charges and will "face the full wrath of American justice on American soil in American courts’.
So then, the fairest trial then since Captain Blackadder was tried by General Melchett for killing his plump breasted pigeon Speckled Jim. [Post edited 3 Jan 13:13]
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There is always a tweet
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:47 - Jan 3 with 748 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:51 - Jan 3 by redrickstuhaart |
The echo chambers they are in may well prevent that sort of introspection. With the support of Musk etc, Trump is ensuring that people are constantly fed a "them and us" narrative, scaring people with ideas of communist muslims taking over cities, crimewaves, allies like the UK being overun with knifecrime comitted by foreigners. etc etc. |
Farage can’t quite bring himself to say it’s illegal
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:50 - Jan 3 with 731 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:57 - Jan 3 by LeoMuff |
If they can do this to another sovereign state, Im pretty sure any incriminating Epstein files will not see the light of day |
There appears a viewpoint this was all ‘staged’ anyway
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:56 - Jan 3 with 702 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:50 - Jan 3 by ElderGrizzly |
There appears a viewpoint this was all ‘staged’ anyway
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Doesn't really tally with Rubio saying he will face trial in the US.
SB | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 14:06 - Jan 3 with 657 views | Kievthegreat |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 12:55 - Jan 3 by Pinewoodblue |
Those Epstein files must be really bad, Trump has played his last card.
Looking ahead you have to be concerned about the safety of Zelenskyy, surely there is a strong chance Putin will follows Trump’s example.
Have a feeling Trump’s actions will also make US citizens targets in many parts of the world. |
He already tried and failed to decapitate the Ukrainian leadership when Russia attacked Hostomel in the opening days. His chances of capturing Zelensky now are massively reduced as he'll never have the element of surprise again. |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 14:08 - Jan 3 with 648 views | Dubtractor |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:47 - Jan 3 by ElderGrizzly |
Farage can’t quite bring himself to say it’s illegal
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To be fair, Farage has made a stronger statement than spineless Starmer. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 14:11 - Jan 3 with 640 views | pointofblue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 13:47 - Jan 3 by ElderGrizzly |
Farage can’t quite bring himself to say it’s illegal
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China and Russia think twice? Not that they needed it, but Trump's actions have given them carte blanche to do what they want. As someone else said, I'm even more concerned for Zelenskyy's safety today than I was before. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 14:38 - Jan 3 with 586 views | giant_stow |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 14:08 - Jan 3 by Dubtractor |
To be fair, Farage has made a stronger statement than spineless Starmer. |
Tricky one... on principle, it would be good to see Starmer stand up, but then again principles and law seem to be out the window now. Perhaps hes showing wisdom? Not sure...
Farage just has a problem as british voters hate trump. |  |
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