| Any McKenna sales succeeded? 08:55 - May 18 with 2865 views | RIPbobby |
## Have Our Exports Really Kicked On?
**The Question:** Our system is undeniably unique and has produced some genuinely exciting talent over recent years. But here's what's been nagging at me, when these players have moved on, have any of them actually thrived elsewhere? Or does something about our setup make them shine in a way that doesn't translate?
## The Case Studies
### Delap to Chelsea
He left with a get-out clause at max price and won a Club World Cup and reached an FA Cup final. Impressive silverware on paper. But has he actually delivered on the pitch? **Not convincingly.** He also missed out on a UEFA U21 European Championship winner's medal. The medals don't tell the full story—his performances have been underwhelming.
### Omari's Move
An even bigger transfer fee, but **he's massively flattered to deceive.** He's had moments, sure, but manager changes and uncertainty from ownership have clearly hampered his progress. Yes, he scored in the UEFA U21 European Championship final, a genuine highlight, but 12 months on, I'm not convinced he's in a better position than he was. The move doesn't look like a win for him.
### Chappers Loan to Portsmouth
Good experience, but he's **nowhere near repeating his League One Golden Boot form.** Nothing to write home about.
### Massimo to Millwall
**Probably our most successful export.** He arrived looking sharper and more streamlined, but a serious injury derailed what could have been a real success story.
## The Real Mystery
**Why hasn't anyone truly kicked on under a different manager?** Is it our system that artificially inflates their performances? Is it the coaching or guidance they receive here? Or is there something else we're missing? It's genuinely interesting to me, because it suggests our environment might be doing something special that's hard to replicate elsewhere. [Post edited 18 May 9:07]
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 09:11 - May 18 with 2427 views | Steve_M |
You are conflating two different categories of player.
1). Young players with an upsale value (Delap and Hutichinson)
2). Players who are leaving after playing the best football of their careers here.
If we look at it that way, then it's not really a surprise that most of the players in group 2 don't perform at the same level as they did here.
Delap made a poor footballing choice to go to Chelsea IMO, not only is there a litany of strikers who have failed to make an impact there over recent years but the club is an unstructured mess at the moment. Newcastle or Everton might have been a better choice. He should definitely be thinking about his options this Summer.
Omari has done ok after a slow start and going to another club that has been a mess off the pitch. He's done enough to suggest he's built on last season and will have a decent career. He's had another year of Premier League football and will carry on at that level so he will probably think the move worked out ok. [Post edited 18 May 9:32]
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:12 - May 18 with 2219 views | SitfcB |
Does it really matter?
I don’t really care.
Only care if they succeed here. |  |
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:20 - May 18 with 2148 views | bsw72 |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 09:11 - May 18 by Steve_M |
You are conflating two different categories of player.
1). Young players with an upsale value (Delap and Hutichinson)
2). Players who are leaving after playing the best football of their careers here.
If we look at it that way, then it's not really a surprise that most of the players in group 2 don't perform at the same level as they did here.
Delap made a poor footballing choice to go to Chelsea IMO, not only is there a litany of strikers who have failed to make an impact there over recent years but the club is an unstructured mess at the moment. Newcastle or Everton might have been a better choice. He should definitely be thinking about his options this Summer.
Omari has done ok after a slow start and going to another club that has been a mess off the pitch. He's done enough to suggest he's built on last season and will have a decent career. He's had another year of Premier League football and will carry on at that level so he will probably think the move worked out ok. [Post edited 18 May 9:32]
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Not to mention that with both Delap and Hutchinson, they have worked under a total of 8 managers in a single season, hardly conducive to establishing yourself in a new team. |  | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:22 - May 18 with 2126 views | homer_123 |
I see your McKenna and raise you a Robson.
How many players that were fantastic for us went on and did better.....not too many if memory serves.
In short, if they deliver for us and/ or we make a profit - not sure it really matters what happens once they move on.
I look at the likes of Burns, Chaplin, Morsy et al and see a manager who got so much more from them than anyone else did. |  |
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:25 - May 18 with 2092 views | bartyg |
Feel you're being harsh on Omari here, was caught in the crossfire when he signed but has been starting regularly since the turn of the year with reasonable performances. He's also still only 22. |  |
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:31 - May 18 with 2030 views | NedPlimpton |
Why have you got AI to help you with this?
Omari has been playing most weeks for Forest, Massimo has been injured and subsequently now released by Millwall, so not sure how Omari's "doesn't look like a win" but Massimo has been a success?
Bizarre writing and conclusions. Also what about Muric, pretty successful away from Ipswich, Harry Clarke's also had a pretty successful loan spell etc. Why limit it to those 4 choices? |  | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:44 - May 18 with 1962 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Delap - Moved to a level beyond his own ability. Car crash club too. Think he would have been more of a success at Everton / Newcastle.
Hutch - Has had a strong end to the season, probably playing as well or better than he did as Ipswich in the Prem. Next season will be interesting.
Chappers - Moved to a poor team, played out of position. He was set up to fail, and the move was probably based on emotion rather than the best career move.
Massimo - Was playing well. The injury was pure bad luck.
I dont think any of these 'failures' are because KM is no longer their coach. [Post edited 18 May 10:46]
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:51 - May 18 with 1876 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:22 - May 18 by homer_123 |
I see your McKenna and raise you a Robson.
How many players that were fantastic for us went on and did better.....not too many if memory serves.
In short, if they deliver for us and/ or we make a profit - not sure it really matters what happens once they move on.
I look at the likes of Burns, Chaplin, Morsy et al and see a manager who got so much more from them than anyone else did. |
KM had Burns, Chaplin and Morsy at their peak ages, and they mainly performed at their best in L1 and the Championship.
Burns hasnt moved on yet, so we cant test that.
Morsy moved on when he was past his best.
Chappers moved to a club fighting relegation. | |
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:56 - May 18 with 1855 views | southnorfolkblue |
Surely the definition of success should be how much profit we made?
Really don’t care whether the players kick on after they leave.
It will be a mixed bag.
Hutchinson and Delap great business
We’ll probably lose on SS, Ogbene
Might break even on Muric |  |
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:57 - May 18 with 1853 views | TheGentlemanViking |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:44 - May 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Delap - Moved to a level beyond his own ability. Car crash club too. Think he would have been more of a success at Everton / Newcastle.
Hutch - Has had a strong end to the season, probably playing as well or better than he did as Ipswich in the Prem. Next season will be interesting.
Chappers - Moved to a poor team, played out of position. He was set up to fail, and the move was probably based on emotion rather than the best career move.
Massimo - Was playing well. The injury was pure bad luck.
I dont think any of these 'failures' are because KM is no longer their coach. [Post edited 18 May 10:46]
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Nailed it.
Only Reece James, Joao Pedro and Moisés Caicedo can say they had really strong seasons for Chelsea this year. Far better players than Delap have struggled in that squad this year. Having a million managers certainly doesn't help, that said, he's won the Club World Cup and played in an FA Cup Final, I don't think he'll be too stressed.
Hutch was signed against the managers wishes, had to contend with Ange-ball and Dych-ball, and has now played himself into the starting 11 of a team that got to the Europa League semis and safe from relegation. He's done more this year than he did last year with us.
Muric was a success, Harry Clarke was a success, Cam H was a success, Woolfie got promoted, Broady challenged for the play-offs, Slicks had a decent year, and Al Hamadi won a trophy at Wembley.
McKenna is great, I love the guy. But he isn't the only manager capable of improving players or getting them to play at consistently high levels. |  | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 11:32 - May 18 with 1697 views | homer_123 |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:51 - May 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
KM had Burns, Chaplin and Morsy at their peak ages, and they mainly performed at their best in L1 and the Championship.
Burns hasnt moved on yet, so we cant test that.
Morsy moved on when he was past his best.
Chappers moved to a club fighting relegation. |
My point remains - if you look at all three's stats and playing career - none had performed at the level that have done for Town. | |
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 11:49 - May 18 with 1602 views | longtimefan |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:22 - May 18 by homer_123 |
I see your McKenna and raise you a Robson.
How many players that were fantastic for us went on and did better.....not too many if memory serves.
In short, if they deliver for us and/ or we make a profit - not sure it really matters what happens once they move on.
I look at the likes of Burns, Chaplin, Morsy et al and see a manager who got so much more from them than anyone else did. |
Well Wark, Muhren and Brazil for a start strike me as successes post Robson
Edit: Add Talbot and Mariner to that. [Post edited 18 May 11:52]
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 12:23 - May 18 with 1430 views | RIPbobby |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:31 - May 18 by NedPlimpton |
Why have you got AI to help you with this?
Omari has been playing most weeks for Forest, Massimo has been injured and subsequently now released by Millwall, so not sure how Omari's "doesn't look like a win" but Massimo has been a success?
Bizarre writing and conclusions. Also what about Muric, pretty successful away from Ipswich, Harry Clarke's also had a pretty successful loan spell etc. Why limit it to those 4 choices? |
It's not ai it's called markdown language. Read up on it. It is pretty good. | | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 12:25 - May 18 with 1408 views | RIPbobby |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:12 - May 18 by SitfcB |
Does it really matter?
I don’t really care.
Only care if they succeed here. |
Yeah I get that. But it might also shed light on why 2 players recruited recently, who had been championship top scorers have both struggled in our system. Might be a connection. | | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 12:26 - May 18 with 1379 views | darkhorse28 |
Where to start. What’s unique about a double pivot. Our style is pep esque as of about 5 years ago, which shouldn’t be a shock.
You self select players to suit an argument and then judge that at a MUCH higher level than McKenna has worked at as a manger and ANY of our current squad have succeeded at.
Omari just became a regular in a side in European semi finals, how does that compare to our wide right players currently, all of which McKenna doesn’t believe are at that level, and have struggled even in the EFL.
Moore, Broadbead, Massimo (pre injury) have all done great, Wolf just literally finished a country miles ahead of us, and I’ve seen Burgess look a million dollars for Swansea.
You’re getting carried away.
It’s like 24/25 and 22 points taught you zero lessons.
Stay humble.
Maybe reflect of which of Greaves, Clarke, Ogbenne, Walle, Sammie, Johnson and even O’Shea WE have improved???
How many players did we have in the EFL Championship team of the year?? NONE
Most of the list I mentioned made that team - with OTHER clubs .., hard to argue we’ve improved any of them. Because we haven’t. | | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 12:29 - May 18 with 1366 views | homer_123 |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 11:49 - May 18 by longtimefan |
Well Wark, Muhren and Brazil for a start strike me as successes post Robson
Edit: Add Talbot and Mariner to that. [Post edited 18 May 11:52]
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"not too many" | |
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 12:40 - May 18 with 1292 views | DarkBrandon |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 11:49 - May 18 by longtimefan |
Well Wark, Muhren and Brazil for a start strike me as successes post Robson
Edit: Add Talbot and Mariner to that. [Post edited 18 May 11:52]
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Butcher,
Scotland does count. |  | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 12:41 - May 18 with 1282 views | SE1blue |
I think Omari has succeeded.
Things have been an absolute mess at Forest. He joined with big aspirations and then told he’s not part of the European squad, rarely a starter in the PL, but he played himself back into the first XI.
I watched him play yesterday and would say he looks more confident and fits the PL now. If his teammates could play the ball in front of him, rather than behind him, he could and would’ve created more against United. |  |
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 12:54 - May 18 with 1227 views | LeightonBuzzardBlue |
One that I don't think has been mentioned is that Ndaba has. Squad player in Serie A and now in the Ireland team for their next couple games (albeit a cross between an A and a B squad). |  | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 13:09 - May 18 with 1168 views | ITFCson |
Hutchinson has moved to a very decent team in N.Forest who reached the semi final of the Europa. Furthermore he starts most games and also did under the previous manager. I am sure if you asked most Forest fans who watch him every week rather than bitter town fans they'd tell you he has had a decent season. | | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 13:17 - May 18 with 1127 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 12:54 - May 18 by LeightonBuzzardBlue |
One that I don't think has been mentioned is that Ndaba has. Squad player in Serie A and now in the Ireland team for their next couple games (albeit a cross between an A and a B squad). |
Still find it a bit odd we didn't include a sell on clause for Corrie. Though I understand he moved to serie A for relative peanuts. | | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 13:27 - May 18 with 1084 views | Sharkey |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 11:49 - May 18 by longtimefan |
Well Wark, Muhren and Brazil for a start strike me as successes post Robson
Edit: Add Talbot and Mariner to that. [Post edited 18 May 11:52]
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I think you can add Mills to that. Played 100+ games for Southampton in three seasons. In the second season, they finished 2nd (to Town's 12th), in the third, 5th to Town's 17th. |  | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 13:33 - May 18 with 1041 views | J2BLUE |
The fact some people think Hutchinson hasn't progressed is incredible. He's fought his way into a Premier League starting 11 where they have good alternative options. He wasn't even in their European squad but then started both semi finals.
He has clearly progressed this season. |  | | |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 13:43 - May 18 with 1007 views | Vic |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 10:22 - May 18 by homer_123 |
I see your McKenna and raise you a Robson.
How many players that were fantastic for us went on and did better.....not too many if memory serves.
In short, if they deliver for us and/ or we make a profit - not sure it really matters what happens once they move on.
I look at the likes of Burns, Chaplin, Morsy et al and see a manager who got so much more from them than anyone else did. |
I was thinking exactly the same. Off the top of my head I'd say that Talbot, Wark, Brazil & possibly Muhren were successful after they left. But the rest generally went downhill - Mariner got most of his England caps with Ipswich, Thijssen lasted just one season at Forest then disappeared. Butcher went up to Scotland; Mills, Burley, Osman all departed but certainly went downhill after they left.
True to say that success and progression after life at Town wasn't the norm. At least that's how I remember it! |  |
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| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 13:46 - May 18 with 995 views | Vic |
| Any McKenna sales succeeded? on 12:40 - May 18 by DarkBrandon |
Butcher,
Scotland does count. |
Success in a noddy league? He was part of a golden era at Rangers - but it;s hardly the best standard is it. | |
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