| "I can't breathe" 07:35 - Jun 2 with 15400 views | BlueSmoke |
The final words of Henry Nowak as he was handcuffed and bleeding out from 5 stab wounds. The footage should worry everyone of us.
Government FORCED to make a statement.
Could be a pivotal moment for this broken country. |  | | |  |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:41 - Jun 2 with 1139 views | bluelagos |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:30 - Jun 2 by ITFC_Essex |
Half of the population are raging Reformers, and the other half couldn't care less about this murder, but care more about issues abroad. Everyone's trying to shoehorn their narrative into everything that happens, at every opportunity, and it's going to be an absolute powder keg when it goes off.
Those of us in the middle politically are watching from the side-lines at the lunacy around us dragging more and more people into one side or another in total despair. |
"the other half couldn't care less about this murder"
Over the years I've read some utter bollox on here - but I think you have just trumped everything I've ever seen on Twtd. |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 08:45 - Jun 2 with 1112 views | StokieBlue |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:26 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
The same last words as George Floyd.
I expect to see players taking the knee before kick-off this season. If the principle is the same, then surely the response should be too. |
The things are totally different.
This was a horrific murder which was incredibly poorly handled by the police, questions will need to be answered and lessons will need to be learned.
The other was a continuation in a long line of systematic racism and the murder was actually carried out by the police.
What a horrible attempt to try and minimalise what "taking the knee" was about. The two events are awful in their own rights and don't need to be compared. We really do have some nasty posters on here at the moment.
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| "I can't breathe" on 08:47 - Jun 2 with 1099 views | TownieRob |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:37 - Jun 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Not really the same though is it, unless you're either really thick or a little bit racist? |
I never said it was the same incident. I asked whether the same standards and level of scrutiny will be applied.
One case sparked a global conversation. Let's see if this one does too.
Also, please don't throw around accusations of racism simply because someone asks a question or makes a comment, that you don't agree with. |  | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:48 - Jun 2 with 1086 views | baxterbasics |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:12 - Jun 2 by BloomBlue |
I do find it a difficult situation especially for the family. The victim was handcuffed, but the perpetrator wasn't - totally wrong. Henry Nowak was asking for help but received none.
Although it sounds like the perpetrators family are scum. It was the brother who phoned the police and falsely claimed it was a racist attack by a white person and his mother hid the knife from the police, although I think she's in court for that next week.
A bigger question is, is it time we also banned knifes used for religious purposes like the kirpan? |
From the little I've heard on the case, the religious excuse doesn't even wash here as a reason for carrying the knife. The assailant wasn't taking part in any ceremonial duty at the time - he was working. |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 08:50 - Jun 2 with 1069 views | giant_stow |
Im not going to watch the video, so apologies for ignorance, but can i just ask what makes this horrible murder a turning point in your view? Are you saying the police could have saved the victim if they'd not initally believed the attacker? |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 08:51 - Jun 2 with 1055 views | noggin |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:47 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
I never said it was the same incident. I asked whether the same standards and level of scrutiny will be applied.
One case sparked a global conversation. Let's see if this one does too.
Also, please don't throw around accusations of racism simply because someone asks a question or makes a comment, that you don't agree with. |
As someone else stated recently, the best way to avoid accusations of racism, is to not act racist. [Post edited 2 Jun 8:53]
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| "I can't breathe" on 08:53 - Jun 2 with 1023 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:26 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
The same last words as George Floyd.
I expect to see players taking the knee before kick-off this season. If the principle is the same, then surely the response should be too. |
It is the same last words, which is why they are highlighted in the title, I am sure.
The reason for taking the knee was not the last words. It is the continued racism that led to the police response. What do you propose a renewal of taking the knee now for? Is it that you think white people are suffering from discrimination and need protection? Is it really? I suggest you look into the facts surrounding discrimination and what really goes on.
This is a tragic case where (once again) police have acted wrongly. There will (and should) be an inquiry into why they have acted that way. Hopefully there will be changes that prevent such reactions happening again too.
One thing we do agree on, though, is there is still a place for taking the knee - because racism is still rife (indeed much in modern politics/media is empowering it). |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 08:57 - Jun 2 with 984 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:47 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
I never said it was the same incident. I asked whether the same standards and level of scrutiny will be applied.
One case sparked a global conversation. Let's see if this one does too.
Also, please don't throw around accusations of racism simply because someone asks a question or makes a comment, that you don't agree with. |
Oh the classic, "Just asking questions". Stokie says it better than me.
You didn't say it was the same incident, and I didn't say you said that either.
So if it's not the same incident, why do you want the same response (taking the knee)? Why is you think a white man being murdered deserves the same protest as decades of one race being persecuted, leading to a black man being murdered by the police? |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 08:58 - Jun 2 with 988 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
You’ve put this post in the wrong section.
You were looking for the ‘Letters to the Daily Mail’ section. |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:07 - Jun 2 with 924 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:30 - Jun 2 by ITFC_Essex |
Half of the population are raging Reformers, and the other half couldn't care less about this murder, but care more about issues abroad. Everyone's trying to shoehorn their narrative into everything that happens, at every opportunity, and it's going to be an absolute powder keg when it goes off.
Those of us in the middle politically are watching from the side-lines at the lunacy around us dragging more and more people into one side or another in total despair. |
About 25% of the electorate are Reform supporters (far from half the population). It is interesting they are showing in a British-Polish student's death. Hopefully it is a turning point in their now support of families of immigrants from Poland.
Most, if not all, of the other 75% of electors (and the wider disenfranchised population as well) I am sure care that an 18-year-old man has been murdered and are grateful that our judicial system has convicted the killer.
Indeed, I would imagine that most of those who support Reform care similarly.
I am not sure why anyone who describes themselves as "in the middle politically" would comment as you are. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:08 - Jun 2 with 933 views | SitfcB |
Those police officers should be utterly ashamed of themselves and I really hope they lose their jobs, disgusting. |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:08 - Jun 2 with 923 views | bsw72 |
First and foremost this is truly a tragic and possibly avoidable situation, I say avoidable as I have yet to see whether immediate medical treatment would have saved Nowak - the lack of care and attention by attending officers is truly shocking based on what I have seen and read.
Whichever way this is cut, it is an act of unprovoked violence perpetrated by individuals which have resulted in the death of a young man.
The individual police officers in question should face consequences of their actions, an inquiry by the IPC and if there are findings which can avoid these events in future then they should be acted upon promptly.
What this should not be turned into is a political or religious debate. |  | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:10 - Jun 2 with 907 views | lowhouseblue |
this is a tragedy and feelings should be with the victim's family. i also feel for the officers who made an immediate decision which turned out to be a mistake. as a society we put officers in a position where they have to make critical and instant decisions and sometimes they'll get stuff wrong. importantly here the decision made by the officers didn't contribute to the victim's death.
but we need the inquiry to find out - why the victim was handcuffed (he wasn't a threat, he wasn't resisting arrest, for what ever reason he appeared incapacitated). we also need to know if the officer's training and the assumptions they have been encouraged to adopt led them to accept the false version of events, and exactly why they moved to an arrest and handcuffs on the basis of an accusation of racism as apparently a higher priority than considering claims of a serious assault and resulting injury. it seems the wrong way round. it's possible that the officers approached the scene with pre-formed assumptions which were wrong - if so the investigation needs to find out what any assumptions were and why. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:14 - Jun 2 with 878 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:08 - Jun 2 by SitfcB |
Those police officers should be utterly ashamed of themselves and I really hope they lose their jobs, disgusting. |
I don't know the full details but listening to the police statement I feel this is more nuanced than it seems at first glance.
The perpetrator called the police and claimed that Nowak was the aggressor. The police who attended acted on that report. Presumably no one else at the scene was giving any other report. I would imagine handcuffing him was unnecessary and ott. That is where the police response often seems wrong. It also took them 3 minutes to assess the need for medical attention. Why was that? The fatal injuries seem to have been internal from the police statement - how obvious was it to the initial responders that they were as serious as they were?
I think we should wait to see what the independent investigation comes up with. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:16 - Jun 2 with 863 views | chantryblueboy |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:14 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I don't know the full details but listening to the police statement I feel this is more nuanced than it seems at first glance.
The perpetrator called the police and claimed that Nowak was the aggressor. The police who attended acted on that report. Presumably no one else at the scene was giving any other report. I would imagine handcuffing him was unnecessary and ott. That is where the police response often seems wrong. It also took them 3 minutes to assess the need for medical attention. Why was that? The fatal injuries seem to have been internal from the police statement - how obvious was it to the initial responders that they were as serious as they were?
I think we should wait to see what the independent investigation comes up with. |
The video is out there, and there is no gore etc - I would encourage anyone with an opinion on this case to watch it | | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:17 - Jun 2 with 854 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:10 - Jun 2 by lowhouseblue |
this is a tragedy and feelings should be with the victim's family. i also feel for the officers who made an immediate decision which turned out to be a mistake. as a society we put officers in a position where they have to make critical and instant decisions and sometimes they'll get stuff wrong. importantly here the decision made by the officers didn't contribute to the victim's death.
but we need the inquiry to find out - why the victim was handcuffed (he wasn't a threat, he wasn't resisting arrest, for what ever reason he appeared incapacitated). we also need to know if the officer's training and the assumptions they have been encouraged to adopt led them to accept the false version of events, and exactly why they moved to an arrest and handcuffs on the basis of an accusation of racism as apparently a higher priority than considering claims of a serious assault and resulting injury. it seems the wrong way round. it's possible that the officers approached the scene with pre-formed assumptions which were wrong - if so the investigation needs to find out what any assumptions were and why. |
Your first paragraph is spot on.
Your second descends into pure conjecture and becomes odd. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:17 - Jun 2 with 855 views | noggin |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:10 - Jun 2 by lowhouseblue |
this is a tragedy and feelings should be with the victim's family. i also feel for the officers who made an immediate decision which turned out to be a mistake. as a society we put officers in a position where they have to make critical and instant decisions and sometimes they'll get stuff wrong. importantly here the decision made by the officers didn't contribute to the victim's death.
but we need the inquiry to find out - why the victim was handcuffed (he wasn't a threat, he wasn't resisting arrest, for what ever reason he appeared incapacitated). we also need to know if the officer's training and the assumptions they have been encouraged to adopt led them to accept the false version of events, and exactly why they moved to an arrest and handcuffs on the basis of an accusation of racism as apparently a higher priority than considering claims of a serious assault and resulting injury. it seems the wrong way round. it's possible that the officers approached the scene with pre-formed assumptions which were wrong - if so the investigation needs to find out what any assumptions were and why. |
"importantly here the decision made by the officers didn't contribute to the victim's death."
Has that been established yet? I'm not saying you're wrong by the way, I haven't really looked too much at the story. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:19 - Jun 2 with 835 views | lowhouseblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:17 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Your first paragraph is spot on.
Your second descends into pure conjecture and becomes odd. |
in what way? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:19 - Jun 2 with 835 views | management |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:40 - Jun 2 by bluelagos |
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Hopefully Alexis Boon(Chief Constable) or Sam de Raya (Deputy Chief Constable) will make an appearance shortly and not delegate down the line. | | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:19 - Jun 2 with 828 views | lowhouseblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:17 - Jun 2 by noggin |
"importantly here the decision made by the officers didn't contribute to the victim's death."
Has that been established yet? I'm not saying you're wrong by the way, I haven't really looked too much at the story. |
that was the line on the today programme this morning. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:19 - Jun 2 with 832 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:08 - Jun 2 by SitfcB |
Those police officers should be utterly ashamed of themselves and I really hope they lose their jobs, disgusting. |
They almost certainly will | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:21 - Jun 2 with 806 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:16 - Jun 2 by chantryblueboy |
The video is out there, and there is no gore etc - I would encourage anyone with an opinion on this case to watch it |
I have no interest in watching it. I wonder how the victim's family feel about it being available to view.
The only people who need to watch it are those involved in the enquiry. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:22 - Jun 2 with 797 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:19 - Jun 2 by lowhouseblue |
that was the line on the today programme this morning. |
The police statement above states that the coroner asserted that there was nothing that the officers could have done that would have saved his life.
Certainly they didn't contribute to his death. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:23 - Jun 2 with 786 views | bluelagos |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:21 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I have no interest in watching it. I wonder how the victim's family feel about it being available to view.
The only people who need to watch it are those involved in the enquiry. |
The family have given their consent for the body cam video to be released
(as stated on Newsnight last night - which did 20 minutes on it - on iplayer if you wish to see it) | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:26 - Jun 2 with 752 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:19 - Jun 2 by lowhouseblue |
in what way? |
You are speculating that there is some scale of offences that ranks racism above other crimes.
There had been a report to the police that this was a racial assault and there was no other report made. Did anyone point out what had happened to the officers attending?
Imagine the scene - a group of angry individuals are holding down someone they say has assaulted one of them and shouted racist things at them. The response is to then arrest that individual. Did they need to handcuff him, though? At some point they have then realised the individual is seriously hurt and needs medical attention and have acted on that. Why did it take 3 minutes to come to that conclusion?
There was no need to speculate on anything else. | |
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