| Ben Stokes on 20:02 - Jun 8 with 2261 views | vilanovablue |
Personally I think he should be done, he's had enough chances and constantly goes back to just doing what he wants. I love the bloke for what he's done and achieved but a line has to be drawn now, sadly. |  | |  |
| Ben Stokes on 20:14 - Jun 8 with 2175 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Ben Stokes on 20:02 - Jun 8 by vilanovablue |
Personally I think he should be done, he's had enough chances and constantly goes back to just doing what he wants. I love the bloke for what he's done and achieved but a line has to be drawn now, sadly. |
Seems to a a level of arrogance in the senior positions in this side, which has contributed towards some of the issues and bad performances. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 20:18 - Jun 8 with 2151 views | Perublue |
It’s like this squad came through a time warp from the eighties and missed all the cultural changes in professional sport and life generally it’s really quite odd. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 20:19 - Jun 8 with 2139 views | Zx1988 |
| Ben Stokes on 20:14 - Jun 8 by redrickstuhaart |
Seems to a a level of arrogance in the senior positions in this side, which has contributed towards some of the issues and bad performances. |
The culture certainly seems wrong, and that will be coming from the likes of Stokes and McCullum. With the poor performance and poor PR of the Ashes tour, I don't see why the ECB didn't choose to make a clean break at the start of the year.
It's time to stop picking players on vibes, and whether they play golf, and go back to more traditional methods of selection. | |
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| Ben Stokes on 20:27 - Jun 8 with 2105 views | BackToRussia |
They seem to be going for the "work hard, play hard" model, without the work bit. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 22:01 - Jun 8 with 1898 views | davblue |
| Ben Stokes on 20:02 - Jun 8 by vilanovablue |
Personally I think he should be done, he's had enough chances and constantly goes back to just doing what he wants. I love the bloke for what he's done and achieved but a line has to be drawn now, sadly. |
It’s pretty silly to have done this being what happened over the winter results and discipline wise. |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 22:58 - Jun 8 with 1723 views | redrickstuhaart |
Team culture coming from the top. | |
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| Ben Stokes on 23:01 - Jun 8 with 1706 views | Whos_blue |
Love Ben Stokes and what he has/does bring to the team.
He's a special player and captain but this is probably one misdemeanor too many if it is what it seems to be.
I can't see any other suitable sanction other than to strip him of the captaincy now.
He's close to the end of his career and we need to build a new team/culture for the coming challenges.
The "don't give a f@ck" culture seems well embedded in parts of this team from Baz down, so yes, time for a change.
Sad but needed.
This all said, I doubt it will happen though!!! |  |
| "Look, I don't wanna be the same as everybody else. That's why I'm a Mod, see?" |
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| Ben Stokes on 01:08 - Jun 9 with 1595 views | vinceg |
Trouble is, if we bin Stokes as captain, the next cab off the rank is likely to be Harry Brook, who has also had alcohol related disciplinary issues.
Could always bring Root back for this summer only, whilst another more wholesome candidate is groomed. I thought Crawley would make a good captain but you need to lead by example and he tends to have only one really good knock per series, hence he's been left out this summer.
Gus Atkinson gets a slap on the wrist and a fine for me, but keep him in the test team. |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 01:48 - Jun 9 with 1560 views | Ryorry |
Thought that before a ball was even bowled against NZ lasr week. Surprised (guess I shouldn’t have been though) that no changes were made in management after the Ashes. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 08:52 - Jun 9 with 1268 views | WD19 |
These things tend to go in cycles and it feels like a natural time to move on. Form and fitness just compound the situation.
That said, there is no obvious better long term candidate. All the likely picks are cut from similar cloth, but just a less good version (captaincy wise). It feels like the red ball side needs a bit of a hard reset with a dedicated red ball captain. |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 09:07 - Jun 9 with 1229 views | Scoob94 |
This wasn't the incident from Sunday evening, this was what happened in Bristol 9/10 years ago. [Post edited 9 Jun 9:07]
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| Ben Stokes on 09:52 - Jun 9 with 1147 views | Devereuxxx |
Could not believe this story when it came out yesterday following the furore over team culture in Australia. Seems to be such an easy way to erode any confidence in the team hierarchy. Monumentally dumb.
Also, if Stokes did step down, then we'd have current vice-captain Harry Brooks talking about team culture. Hardly think that's an improvement.
The bunker mentality of this current lot is bordering on narcissism. Some of the criticism is deserved. Key and McCullum have a lot to answer for. |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 23:28 - Jun 9 with 886 views | stonojnr |
well he's a flippin idiot, thats for sure, or its a self destructive streak which is arguably worse and the ECB need to think carefully about how to protect him from self harm, as they should as an employer they have a duty of care
but he should be suspended at the very least for a few games, I cant see how the leadership and team can move forward as a group, when theyve set such clear boundaries of behaviour that they all agreed to abide by, and literally the first opportunity the captain and gus are out stepping over those lines drawn in the sand, and thats ignoring the rugby player doing what drunk rugby players normally do in nightclubs in the early hours of the morning.
the cricketers had been told to be professional, focus on the cricket, dont stay out after midnight, as in the words of their coach nothing good ever happens, and annoyingly he's right isnt he, because all of this proves it again.
I wouldnt strip him of the captaincy, though thats largely because the alternatives are so poor. Brook isnt even a good captain, let alone ready to be a captain of an England team, and his own nightclub exploits show he hasnt got common sense, and probably no respect among the squad either.
Root would be the best temporary choice, but he really doesnt want the job anymore, maybe they could recall Jimmy. | | | |
| Ben Stokes on 23:40 - Jun 9 with 866 views | Sharkey |
While we’re here, cricket people, did anyone watch Essex v Kent on tv tonight? Gooch seemed more than slightly merry to me. |  | | |
| Ben Stokes on 08:45 - Jun 10 with 714 views | MaySixth |
I don't think he should be sacked although he might resign.
Some perspective.
Two England players were out later than they should have been, and someone else behaved poorly.
The problem I have with Stokes is, albeit a brilliant player, we have been here before and it is disappointing he does not learn from his mistakes. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 09:58 - Jun 10 with 661 views | bluelagos |
| Ben Stokes on 08:45 - Jun 10 by MaySixth |
I don't think he should be sacked although he might resign.
Some perspective.
Two England players were out later than they should have been, and someone else behaved poorly.
The problem I have with Stokes is, albeit a brilliant player, we have been here before and it is disappointing he does not learn from his mistakes. |
I think the context is really important here
England badly underperformed on tour this winter and were heavily criticised for being poorly prepared and the fact that a number of players were excessively drinking and clubbing - in NZ it was the night before a match ffs.
On the back of that - the ECB, rather than sacking those involved bring in crystal clear guidelines around when/when not to go out - those rules are to protect the players as much as anything.
Stokes is the captain - and he goes out clubbing (in breach of those rules) with a fellow team player.
It's sticking two fingers up to the team management. Can't see a world were he carries on as captain... |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 10:04 - Jun 10 with 647 views | Steve_M |
| Ben Stokes on 09:58 - Jun 10 by bluelagos |
I think the context is really important here
England badly underperformed on tour this winter and were heavily criticised for being poorly prepared and the fact that a number of players were excessively drinking and clubbing - in NZ it was the night before a match ffs.
On the back of that - the ECB, rather than sacking those involved bring in crystal clear guidelines around when/when not to go out - those rules are to protect the players as much as anything.
Stokes is the captain - and he goes out clubbing (in breach of those rules) with a fellow team player.
It's sticking two fingers up to the team management. Can't see a world were he carries on as captain... |
I have more sympathy with this view here:
https://www.theguardian.com/sp
The real reason for failure in the Winter is that there was no time for preparation and that really isn't on the players. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 10:11 - Jun 10 with 636 views | giant_stow |
| Ben Stokes on 10:04 - Jun 10 by Steve_M |
I have more sympathy with this view here:
https://www.theguardian.com/sp
The real reason for failure in the Winter is that there was no time for preparation and that really isn't on the players. |
I'm a cricketing know-nothing, but won't practicalities save Stokes for now? Ie, they've just backed him after the winter, there's nobody sensible to take over and sacking him would mean a complete reset which would screw the whole summer. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 10:12 - Jun 10 with 632 views | Samuelowen88 |
It does seem that this could be the straw that breaks the camels back, which would be a shame, as others have said I love him as a cricketer and what he has done for the England team is incredible.
However at some point you do have to take action.
There was an interesting article the other day (week?), about how much the recent injury he had affected him, both physically and mentally. And not that, that justifies anything, but maybe it can put some perspective on the situation. Torrid time over the winter, horrific injury and the mental side effects of that, lots of talk of he should have been sacked, then win the game. You don't begrudge them going out to celebrate and release some of that tension / stress. But if it's gone too far, and overstepped then action probably should be taken. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 10:15 - Jun 10 with 626 views | bluelagos |
| Ben Stokes on 10:11 - Jun 10 by giant_stow |
I'm a cricketing know-nothing, but won't practicalities save Stokes for now? Ie, they've just backed him after the winter, there's nobody sensible to take over and sacking him would mean a complete reset which would screw the whole summer. |
You maybe right - the only obvious candidate (aside from Root as a caretaker) is Harry Brook - who was central to the NZ night clubbing. | |
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| Ben Stokes on 10:17 - Jun 10 with 621 views | Radlett_blue |
| Ben Stokes on 09:58 - Jun 10 by bluelagos |
I think the context is really important here
England badly underperformed on tour this winter and were heavily criticised for being poorly prepared and the fact that a number of players were excessively drinking and clubbing - in NZ it was the night before a match ffs.
On the back of that - the ECB, rather than sacking those involved bring in crystal clear guidelines around when/when not to go out - those rules are to protect the players as much as anything.
Stokes is the captain - and he goes out clubbing (in breach of those rules) with a fellow team player.
It's sticking two fingers up to the team management. Can't see a world were he carries on as captain... |
The Ashes tour was a predictable disaster, not helped by off the field issues.
They should have made an example of Brook (he's the white ball captain FFs), when he had a fight with a bouncer in a night club the night before a ODI. That's a disciplinary offence in any case, but isn't the captain supposed to set an example? Bethell & Tongue were with him, but Tongue wasn't playing the next day & I guess Bethell felt that as his captain was there, it was OK. Instead, the genius England management chose to hush up the incident, which makes it look much worse when it comes out. They seem to be frightened of upsetting the highly paid, centrally contracted players, lest they jump ship for the 20.20 circuses.
Hence the need to reassure the public about discipline, so a midnight curfew is brought in. This might make sense on an overseas tour, but does it apply 365 days of the year? Stokes & Atkinson were in a night club AFTER an England win & no game for over a week. Unfortunately, they might feel the need to make an example of Stokes who is 35 years old and captain. It looks to me like he's coming to the end of his tether, both physically & mentally. Witness his terrible form with the bat & he's rarely fit to bowl. He's achieved enough to be allowed to leave on his own terms though, rather than under a cloud. The big problem is that the equally ill disciplined Brook is the next cab on the rank & I'm not convinced he's a good captain. Root as caretaker for me if Stokes wants to go & yes, let's find a dedicated red ball captain. |  |
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| Ben Stokes on 10:23 - Jun 10 with 595 views | bluelagos |
| Ben Stokes on 10:04 - Jun 10 by Steve_M |
I have more sympathy with this view here:
https://www.theguardian.com/sp
The real reason for failure in the Winter is that there was no time for preparation and that really isn't on the players. |
There's an awful lot of whataboutery in that article. Much of what he says is 100% true - but the fundamental issue is if the management put a rule in place and the captain then breaks at - he is showing utter disdain towards said management.
That the management are sh1t - doesn't really change that.
Clear them out too - no complaints from me if that happened. | |
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