Forum | So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon by GeoffSentence

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon 16:41 - Jun 11 with 1857 views

Behind Sirs Alf and Bobby obviously, they won top level trophies. It's a bit more difficult to rank him compared to Burley and Lyall. McKennas 3 promotions in 4 seasons is in precedented. Burley only got one promotion and that via the play offs, but he not only kept us in the prem but we qualified for Europe. Lyall has only one promotion, but that was as champions not runner up, then he, with MvGivern, kept us up for several seasons, albeit with dire football

Not easy to decide who has the best record.

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(No subject) (n/t) on 18:15 - Jun 11 with 366 views

darkhorse28

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 18:19 - Jun 11 with 379 views

Churchman

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:13 - Jun 11 by ParisBlue
Paul Jewell lower than beneath the dustbin of shame? Jackie Milburn setup the youth system which was the backbone of SBR success. Was too nice to be a manager by all accounts, but not worthy of being in the dustbin. There's also Mick O'Brien who sounds like an interesting chap. [Post edited 11 Jun 17:15]

I forgot Porno Paul. He’s beneath the dustbin of shame a cockroach or two above Keane.

O’Brien did well for us in the Southern League as a new professional club, but wasn’t with us long. If memory serves me right he was kicked out for a ‘liaison’ with a landlady of one of Cobbold’s pubs. Not the done thing in those days

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 18:19 - Jun 11 with 377 views

MK1

3rd, just because where he started from and took us to.

Poll:

New hobby suggestions for NeedhamChris.

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 18:25 - Jun 11 with 362 views

Churchman

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:13 - Jun 11 by ParisBlue
Paul Jewell lower than beneath the dustbin of shame? Jackie Milburn setup the youth system which was the backbone of SBR success. Was too nice to be a manager by all accounts, but not worthy of being in the dustbin. There's also Mick O'Brien who sounds like an interesting chap. [Post edited 11 Jun 17:15]

Jackie Milburn was a smashing bloke. Just not cut out for management. In 1963/64 we let in 121 goals and got hammered rather a lot.

Not all Jackie’s fault. He inherited an old team, but I included him for that eye watering record. You are right, he was involved with setting up a youth set up so I’m probably being harsh. I’ll defer to anyone on here who saw his team for their view, of course.

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 18:29 - Jun 11 with 360 views

chicoazul

Lyall is a top 3 Ipswich manager and his promotion is maybe our single greatest achievement as a club. He spent no money, populated the team with cast offs weirdos youth players and Steve Whitton, won the league in the face of all the money spent by Blackburn Derby and Newcastle, and then kept us up. He also played John Wark on the right wing in the premier league when he was about 47 years old. I love McKenna but he is below Lyall.

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 18:49 - Jun 11 with 333 views

armchaircritic59

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:45 - Jun 11 by BlueinBrum
Gut feel is 4th behind GB but ahead of the rest. Although you could make a case that McKenna has taken us a greater distance forward than GB did, albeit starting from a lower point and therefore not reaching the highs that we did in the early 00s.

Agree with that, and no one should read it as a slight on KM. Fourth best manager in the 90 years we've been a professional club is no mean achievement, and it would have taken something seismic to crash the top 2!

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon (n/t) on 18:50 - Jun 11 with 334 views

GeoffSentence

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon (n/t) on 18:09 - Jun 11 by readtheleaguetable

And then crashed us. McKenna leaves us in a much better place than he stated from, and certainly in a much better shape than Burley did. And I loved and still love George Burley. But clearly the pantheon will always rank Ramsey, Robson, McKenna, Burley, the first Duncan, Lyle —-and then you’d have to peer down the bill with binoculars. To McGarry, maybe.
Always, that is, until we find the next miracle worker.

I think that's a bit harsh on Burley. He didn't have the financial backing that the club has now, there weren't huge parachute payments like there are now and On digital went out of business that year leaving the club without a substantial amount of income it expects and relied on. As a reminder all three relegated clubs went into administration that year.

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Poll:	The best Williams to play for Town

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 18:54 - Jun 11 with 327 views

yesjohn99

No higher than 3rd, no lower than 4th.

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 18:58 - Jun 11 with 318 views

Vaughan8

He's behind Burley for me. I'm not really counting promotions.

Burley built a team gradually and was so close to getting us up numerous times and to go again and again, improving pretty much every year then finally getting there, going up and finishing 5th!!!! Yes 5th in the PL first season, was really amazing.

KM started at a lower level and yes the double promotion was brilliant but The fact we really streugglied in the PL and then even this season we've just seemed to plod to second place, I just think Burley gets it.

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon (n/t) on 19:14 - Jun 11 with 302 views

Marshalls_Mullet

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon (n/t) on 18:09 - Jun 11 by readtheleaguetable

Burley should have walked out on us when he finished 5th then maybe?!

Poll:

Would Lambert have acheived better results than Cook if given the same resources

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 20:06 - Jun 11 with 280 views

patrickswell

I put my list in an earlier thread but offered no context:

The Achievers
1. Alf Ramsey
2. Bobby Robson
3. George Burley
4. Kieran McKenna
5. Bill McGarry
6. John Lyall
7. Scott Duncan

The Nearly Men
8. Joe Royle
9. Bobby Ferguson
10. Mick McGiven
11. Mick McCarthy
12. John Duncan
13. Jim Magilton

The Flops
14. Paul Jewell
15. Roy Keane
16. Jackie Milburn
17. Paul Lambert
18. Paul Cook
19. Paul Hurst

We’re talking cigarette paper’s worth of difference between Ramsey and Robson. Winning the League Championship under Ramsey just gives him the edge.

Cigarette paper too between Burley and McKenna. Burley just gets the edge due to the incredible narrative that played out between 95/96 and 00-01. 99/00 and 00/01 were unbelievable, glorious seasons but the journey to enjoy those moments was made all the sweeter by the incredible highs and lows that played out through the four seasons before 99/00.
McKenna though has the right to be indisputably cited as our best ever second tier manager.

McGarry gets credit for the rebuild after the wreckage of the post-Ramsey phase. Like a 1960s Paul Cook, he brought a number of players who would be very important for us in the following chapter, but he at least left us with a prize to celebrate.
There are days when I have Scott Duncan above Lyall because of his role in building the club up after it joined the Football League, but recency bias ultimately rears its head and if 23/24 counted as a surprise promotion then 91/92 can’t be far behind it. I love the fact that people like Dozzell, Stockwell, Milton, Forrest, Linighan, Thompson, Zondervan, Yallop, Kiwomya, Johnson and….Wark have a league champions medal in their possession thanks to Lyall.

The Nearly Men
Despite operating at a lower level, the brio with which his teams played, while operating under severe financial restrictions sees Royle above top-flight stalwarts Ferguson and McGiven. Both of them have black marks against them for relegation and anti-football respectively, but McGiven’s 75% win percentage over one of the best squads Norwich ever had is in his favour. Ferguson has wins over 1980s Liverpool and STILL the last visiting manager to beat Man Utd at Old Trafford when losing at half time. He may have had a League Cup to his credit had Keith Hackett not let Norwich kick us off the park in the second leg in 85.
I do still wonder how history might have played out had he resigned after the “3-0 up, 4-3 down” loss at Oxford in November ‘85 though.

McCarthy - the only good manager of the 2010s, J. Duncan and Magilton - both cursed by inconsistency but managerial geniuses compared to those in the final part of this list. Magilton was the most frustrating of the lot. On the days it worked his teams looked irresistible, but they only worked 1 out of every 3 games. One John Duncan style winning streak could have seen Jim take us back into the top flight just as brilliantly as he did when playing in May 2000.

The Flops
All but one was employed by Marcus Evans.
Jewell was hapless, but he is least worst because of the occasional flash of enjoyment such as the wins over West Ham in 2011/12. Keane should have been the statement signing, but if he did know what he was doing he was clearly incapable of getting the message over.
Marcus Evans’s choices helped to improve Jackie Milburn’s standing, and it shouldn’t be forgotten that his drubbings were taken in the First tier not the Second or Third.
Lambert was a busted flush, but he did at least do better in the third tier without money than Paul Cook was with it.
Hurst will always be bottom. It was a tricky gig, but he played it terribly, and the damage he did set us back 3 years at least.

[Post edited 11 Jun 21:07]

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 06:26 - Jun 12 with 235 views

Blue_Heath

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 17:30 - Jun 11 by wkj
He is side by side with Burley for me. Yes, Burley did magic in our first season back in the PL, but KM came in when people were rightly concerned that L2 looked an outside but realistic possibility, and put us in a place we'd not been since ITV Digital had a part to play in our club being destroyed and delivered to Marcus Evans.

We never looked like going into L2 and I still say we could have made play offs in McKenna's first part season.

Poll:

How many team changes tonight?

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 07:56 - Jun 12 with 210 views

cressi

Had to judge If we go from the Sir Alf time line. Third or forth not a lot in it but McKenna had far better financial backing. Burley had to trade to buy.

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 08:13 - Jun 12 with 194 views

LegendofthePhoenix

All these comments are looking purely at results.
I would argue that "our managerial pantheon" includes ethos and culture. And for taht, KMcK is probably no.1 (possibly equal with Sir Bob).
The culture is so important - it increases the fan base, increases sponsorship revenues, increases global attention and respect, attracts players who have similar values and will bond with fans rather than just going for the highest pay check. All of these have a long term positive impact on sustainability. Add in the drive for technological and training ground improvements, and KM has created a legacy that will continue long after he has departed.
Taking those things into account, KMcK is in the top 3 for me.

Poll:

would you rather

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 08:22 - Jun 12 with 179 views

SouperJim

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 08:13 - Jun 12 by LegendofthePhoenix

That's a very strong arguement to be fair

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So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 08:34 - Jun 12 with 170 views

Wallingford_Boy

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 16:48 - Jun 11 by NthQldITFC
and in a much tougher environment.

But with loads of cash.

Burley well ahead of KM for me, but KM ahead of Lyall.

RIP Sir Bobby

So where does McKenna sit in our managerial pantheon on 08:37 - Jun 12 with 169 views

itfcjoe

Joint 1st - Sir Alf and Sir Bobby
Joint 3rd - Burley and McK

Plenty of arguments of why Sir Alf better than Sir Bob and vice versa, no arguments that anyone else can be at their level

Plenty of arguments of why Burley better than McKenna and vice versa, no arguments that they compete with Sir Alf or Sir Bobby, no arguments anyone else in their league

Just personal preference between who you prefer out of Alf or Bobby, and Burley and McKenna

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