| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently 16:56 - Jul 14 with 4344 views | Mullet |
Heard on the radio counter terrorism have briefed that it was targeted and politically motivated. There’s several reasons why this is bad, not least because it’s a murder.
A lot has been made of Farage using it for propaganda purposes, but so have reform and their cheerleaders. An almost ghoulish wave of conspiracy has been spread in the interim and there seems a tinderbox of people itching to use this as a way to legitimise Reforms racism and hatred.
There’s even criticism of the police force, counter terrorism and the media for not reporting what they did not know until now.
Likewise, the debate around the cost and need for close protection of all MPs when there are so many former PMs alive who now get it (Starmer will make it 11 apparently) means there isn’t enough resources to go around.
On the day we hear of £10b wastage from the former government, that Farage turned down an offer of government protection so he could justify the £5m bung it really does highlight how starkly the country has lurched downward in the past decade or so.
The fact we have foreign government paying people to target politicians and minority groups exposed earlier this year only makes this murder a sort of prize for different groups to fight over and put their stamp on.
However abhorrent AW was, that only cheapens her and her death further. |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 17:02 - Jul 14 with 2975 views | Zx1988 |
Regarding your third paragraph, some of the more respectable media outlets don't help the situation.
With the foiling of the terrorist attack on the Muslim event in Barham on Sunday, Norfolk Police put out some messaging about a 'major incident' which, in hindsight, stemmed from them offering mutual aid to Suffolk Police to help deal with the situation.
The local rags went absolutely apopleptic that Norfolk Police refused to give them any more information, and there must have been a good five or six articles published in the intervening 24hrs or so levelling all sorts of accusations against NP.
Given the fact that people were arrested all over the country, I can quite understand why the police may have chosen not to publicise the details until all suspects were apprehended.
Not good enough for the EDP, though, who seem to feel that they have a divine right to know precisely what is happening at any point in time. |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 18:27 - Jul 14 with 2696 views | Swansea_Blue |
Some of the reporting still sounds as though they haven’t got a clue. It’s all talk about looking for evidence of, investigating whether there is a possibility, considering it but also looking into whether it could be mental health instead, etc. It all sounds very vague.
Are the police getting pressured into declaring whether or not events are politically-driven such that investigations can’t take place at their natural pace? We don’t need to know every twist and turn now, surely? I’d rather they do what they need to do to establish facts and then make statements with some surety. It must be horrific for her friends and family having these changing stories. [Post edited 14 Jul 18:33]
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 18:32 - Jul 14 with 2667 views | Mullet |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 17:02 - Jul 14 by Zx1988 |
Regarding your third paragraph, some of the more respectable media outlets don't help the situation.
With the foiling of the terrorist attack on the Muslim event in Barham on Sunday, Norfolk Police put out some messaging about a 'major incident' which, in hindsight, stemmed from them offering mutual aid to Suffolk Police to help deal with the situation.
The local rags went absolutely apopleptic that Norfolk Police refused to give them any more information, and there must have been a good five or six articles published in the intervening 24hrs or so levelling all sorts of accusations against NP.
Given the fact that people were arrested all over the country, I can quite understand why the police may have chosen not to publicise the details until all suspects were apprehended.
Not good enough for the EDP, though, who seem to feel that they have a divine right to know precisely what is happening at any point in time. |
It’s because it farms engagement internationally. The MEN has been a rag for many years but their tactic to get Facebook comments etc are the same and worse.
Essentially they copy the Mail online and hope for trickle down effect. | |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 18:37 - Jul 14 with 2625 views | CrockerITFC |
Are you claiming that Farage had something to do with it to take the heat off him and justify him receiving the donations? |  | | |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 18:43 - Jul 14 with 2591 views | StokieBlue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 18:37 - Jul 14 by CrockerITFC |
Are you claiming that Farage had something to do with it to take the heat off him and justify him receiving the donations? |
Where did he say that?
SB [Post edited 14 Jul 18:51]
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 19:26 - Jul 14 with 2468 views | giant_stow |
Agreed all bar the country lurching downward... its definitely dipping, but personally, I think the fight to avoid lurching is what's now beggining. Small detail and im the last to comment on language and sh1t, but this just struck me. |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 19:56 - Jul 14 with 2338 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 18:37 - Jul 14 by CrockerITFC |
Are you claiming that Farage had something to do with it to take the heat off him and justify him receiving the donations? |
Ffs |  | | |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 20:35 - Jul 14 with 2247 views | Mullet |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 18:37 - Jul 14 by CrockerITFC |
Are you claiming that Farage had something to do with it to take the heat off him and justify him receiving the donations? |
Yes. That and she’s not actually dead but on that island with Elvis, 2pac and John Lennon. | |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 20:37 - Jul 14 with 2242 views | Zx1988 |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 18:32 - Jul 14 by Mullet |
It’s because it farms engagement internationally. The MEN has been a rag for many years but their tactic to get Facebook comments etc are the same and worse.
Essentially they copy the Mail online and hope for trickle down effect. |
Indeed; and accusing the police of cover-ups in these sorts of things is an easy way to farm engagement from the Very Real Concerns brigade. [Post edited 14 Jul 20:37]
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 04:20 - Jul 15 with 2020 views | Benters |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 20:37 - Jul 14 by Zx1988 |
Indeed; and accusing the police of cover-ups in these sorts of things is an easy way to farm engagement from the Very Real Concerns brigade. [Post edited 14 Jul 20:37]
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Well the police were very quick to say they had caught someone,poor bloke he must have been crapping himself
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Then it wasn’t terror related or politically motivated,then it was politically motivated.
A lot of people have lost faith in the police. |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 09:12 - Jul 15 with 1822 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 04:20 - Jul 15 by Benters |
Well the police were very quick to say they had caught someone,poor bloke he must have been crapping himself
.
Then it wasn’t terror related or politically motivated,then it was politically motivated.
A lot of people have lost faith in the police. |
A lot of people don’t know how complex Police investigations are. Or how the investigation changes as evidence comes to light. [Post edited 15 Jul 9:13]
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 09:30 - Jul 15 with 1761 views | soupytwist |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 04:20 - Jul 15 by Benters |
Well the police were very quick to say they had caught someone,poor bloke he must have been crapping himself
.
Then it wasn’t terror related or politically motivated,then it was politically motivated.
A lot of people have lost faith in the police. |
Devon and Cornwall Police arrested one local man, and then released him without charge. They didn't say they'd "caught someone" because the police broadly speaking understand the law about what you should and shouldn't say about these things. D&C Police at that stage had no reason to suspect a political motive.
New information presumably came to light leading to the arrest of the man in Yorkshire two days after her death. He was re-arrested under the Terrorism Act on Monday, presumably as a result of what the police discovered in the ongoing investigation.
Not everything about a murder is known at the point of arresting a suspect, including motive. Especially in a case like this where the suspect seems to have not been local or known to the victim, so the police do more investigation and surprise, surprise more information comes to light. |  | | |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 09:33 - Jul 15 with 1736 views | NthQldITFC |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 18:27 - Jul 14 by Swansea_Blue |
Some of the reporting still sounds as though they haven’t got a clue. It’s all talk about looking for evidence of, investigating whether there is a possibility, considering it but also looking into whether it could be mental health instead, etc. It all sounds very vague.
Are the police getting pressured into declaring whether or not events are politically-driven such that investigations can’t take place at their natural pace? We don’t need to know every twist and turn now, surely? I’d rather they do what they need to do to establish facts and then make statements with some surety. It must be horrific for her friends and family having these changing stories. [Post edited 14 Jul 18:33]
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It's a sad indictment of the society we've become, that certain unpatriotic elements of a certain mentality have forced the police into having to immediately declare a suspects ethnicity. Now it seems that extends to having to declare a motive before they even know.
I would have thought the best thing would be to stick to the 'all lines of enquiry are still open' for all crimes until a suspect is charged, but the baying mob of intolerant morons and certain media outlets make that a tough ask. |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 09:54 - Jul 15 with 1649 views | lowhouseblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 09:33 - Jul 15 by NthQldITFC |
It's a sad indictment of the society we've become, that certain unpatriotic elements of a certain mentality have forced the police into having to immediately declare a suspects ethnicity. Now it seems that extends to having to declare a motive before they even know.
I would have thought the best thing would be to stick to the 'all lines of enquiry are still open' for all crimes until a suspect is charged, but the baying mob of intolerant morons and certain media outlets make that a tough ask. |
you need to have fixed rules for releasing information which the police must keep to. as the terrorism commissioner has said, they shouldn't say anything they don't know, including making selective statements which would reasonably lead to an interpretation which isn't supported by what is currently known. equally always releasing race, nationality, sex, age etc when someone is charged (unless, rarely, it may impact on court procedures) seems reasonable.
the problem is that in the past the police press people seem to have selectively released information for the purpose of managing an imagined publicly reaction and to promote broader public policy objectives rather than to inform the public or for legitimate policing reasons. those inconsistencies have reduced trust.
the barham case will be interesting - the initial information released really needs to match what ends up in court. if the police informed the home secretary that 'lives have undoubtedly been saved' and that's not true it would raise big questions. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:08 - Jul 15 with 1612 views | NthQldITFC |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 09:54 - Jul 15 by lowhouseblue |
you need to have fixed rules for releasing information which the police must keep to. as the terrorism commissioner has said, they shouldn't say anything they don't know, including making selective statements which would reasonably lead to an interpretation which isn't supported by what is currently known. equally always releasing race, nationality, sex, age etc when someone is charged (unless, rarely, it may impact on court procedures) seems reasonable.
the problem is that in the past the police press people seem to have selectively released information for the purpose of managing an imagined publicly reaction and to promote broader public policy objectives rather than to inform the public or for legitimate policing reasons. those inconsistencies have reduced trust.
the barham case will be interesting - the initial information released really needs to match what ends up in court. if the police informed the home secretary that 'lives have undoubtedly been saved' and that's not true it would raise big questions. |
'the problem is that in the past the police press people seem to have selectively released information for the purpose of managing an imagined publicly reaction'
It hasn't been an 'imagined' public reaction though recently has it? It's been, on occasion, a social media and gutter press driven racist reaction, sometimes on a false basis (if you'll pardon the stinking inference that you could even have anything other than a 'false' basis), which is why they've been forced into that measure. | |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:16 - Jul 15 with 1576 views | lowhouseblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:08 - Jul 15 by NthQldITFC |
'the problem is that in the past the police press people seem to have selectively released information for the purpose of managing an imagined publicly reaction'
It hasn't been an 'imagined' public reaction though recently has it? It's been, on occasion, a social media and gutter press driven racist reaction, sometimes on a false basis (if you'll pardon the stinking inference that you could even have anything other than a 'false' basis), which is why they've been forced into that measure. |
managing public opinion isn't their job. attempting to do that by the selective release of information is not only not their job it leads to people disbelieving them. their job is policing, not ineptly managing politics, social media, 'the gutter press', or social attitudes. 'false' stuff would get less traction if people knew that the police's concern was always and only policing. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:29 - Jul 15 with 1527 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 09:30 - Jul 15 by soupytwist |
Devon and Cornwall Police arrested one local man, and then released him without charge. They didn't say they'd "caught someone" because the police broadly speaking understand the law about what you should and shouldn't say about these things. D&C Police at that stage had no reason to suspect a political motive.
New information presumably came to light leading to the arrest of the man in Yorkshire two days after her death. He was re-arrested under the Terrorism Act on Monday, presumably as a result of what the police discovered in the ongoing investigation.
Not everything about a murder is known at the point of arresting a suspect, including motive. Especially in a case like this where the suspect seems to have not been local or known to the victim, so the police do more investigation and surprise, surprise more information comes to light. |
Indeed.
The Reform lot were simply guessing at what was the motivation of the attacker at the time. When they had been asked not to do so by Ann's family and the police.
The only mistake the Police probably made was ruling something out so early, but this 'keenness' to share information was driven by the Southport riots and the need to not allow certain elements of society to fill that vacuum with their own theories.
The police were very clear that they changed their outlook based on NEW evidence. Which is how investigations work and evolve.
Of course, all that has done is made the Reform party and particularly Yusuf and Farage double down that they were initially 'lied to' by the Police on the motive as it is politically advantageous for them to say so.
Articles like this don't help either:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk
Talking of left wing motivation, rather than maybe someone just hating what they perceived she stood for/against.
Left vs Right framing or someone simply holding what the majority perceive to be abhorrent views in 2026. It clearly doesn''t deserve anyone to die of course. [Post edited 15 Jul 10:35]
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:35 - Jul 15 with 1493 views | NthQldITFC |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:16 - Jul 15 by lowhouseblue |
managing public opinion isn't their job. attempting to do that by the selective release of information is not only not their job it leads to people disbelieving them. their job is policing, not ineptly managing politics, social media, 'the gutter press', or social attitudes. 'false' stuff would get less traction if people knew that the police's concern was always and only policing. |
It shouldn't be, of course, but managing public order is, and because of the society we've become I don't think they have any viable alternative. It's a sh!t state of affairs, but pragmatism has to rule over ideology when you're up to your neck in militant racists. | |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:45 - Jul 15 with 1431 views | Benters |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 09:30 - Jul 15 by soupytwist |
Devon and Cornwall Police arrested one local man, and then released him without charge. They didn't say they'd "caught someone" because the police broadly speaking understand the law about what you should and shouldn't say about these things. D&C Police at that stage had no reason to suspect a political motive.
New information presumably came to light leading to the arrest of the man in Yorkshire two days after her death. He was re-arrested under the Terrorism Act on Monday, presumably as a result of what the police discovered in the ongoing investigation.
Not everything about a murder is known at the point of arresting a suspect, including motive. Especially in a case like this where the suspect seems to have not been local or known to the victim, so the police do more investigation and surprise, surprise more information comes to light. |
If I may suggest if you can be bothered look at Devon and Cornwall Policing record it’s piss poor. | |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:47 - Jul 15 with 1430 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:45 - Jul 15 by Benters |
If I may suggest if you can be bothered look at Devon and Cornwall Policing record it’s piss poor. |
Farm crimes are notoriously difficult to detect. | |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:49 - Jul 15 with 1411 views | lowhouseblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 09:30 - Jul 15 by soupytwist |
Devon and Cornwall Police arrested one local man, and then released him without charge. They didn't say they'd "caught someone" because the police broadly speaking understand the law about what you should and shouldn't say about these things. D&C Police at that stage had no reason to suspect a political motive.
New information presumably came to light leading to the arrest of the man in Yorkshire two days after her death. He was re-arrested under the Terrorism Act on Monday, presumably as a result of what the police discovered in the ongoing investigation.
Not everything about a murder is known at the point of arresting a suspect, including motive. Especially in a case like this where the suspect seems to have not been local or known to the victim, so the police do more investigation and surprise, surprise more information comes to light. |
just as a thought experiment, if another politician was found murdered in similar circumstances - i'm going to say abbott or polanski or corbyn only because they are equivalently controversial, politically high profile, and the target of similar abuse and hatred - would you be surprised if within 24 hours the police sought to publicly dismiss any link to politics or terrorism without having established any other motive?
*again, i mention the names because they are comparable public controversy and hate figures and i find it inconceivable that any police force wouldn't start by assuming that might be relevant until some other motive was established. isn't their public profile a "reason to suspect a political motive"? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:51 - Jul 15 with 1387 views | lowhouseblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:35 - Jul 15 by NthQldITFC |
It shouldn't be, of course, but managing public order is, and because of the society we've become I don't think they have any viable alternative. It's a sh!t state of affairs, but pragmatism has to rule over ideology when you're up to your neck in militant racists. |
it has the opposite effect. if people stop believing the police public order becomes harder to mange. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:59 - Jul 15 with 1338 views | bartyg |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:16 - Jul 15 by lowhouseblue |
managing public opinion isn't their job. attempting to do that by the selective release of information is not only not their job it leads to people disbelieving them. their job is policing, not ineptly managing politics, social media, 'the gutter press', or social attitudes. 'false' stuff would get less traction if people knew that the police's concern was always and only policing. |
Guarantee you loved when Mark Rowley was all over the press calling Polanski a weapon |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:09 - Jul 15 with 1262 views | eireblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:45 - Jul 15 by Benters |
If I may suggest if you can be bothered look at Devon and Cornwall Policing record it’s piss poor. |
Lazy.
Why don’t you post the evidence that their record is poor compared to similar forces. |  | | |
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