| Bottom of the league then.... 08:12 - Aug 28 with 6920 views | itfcjoe |
....not good.
I did think people going mad about the bookies and likes of FourFourTwo saying we would go down were being a bit silly.
Really need to stop conceding awful set piece goals, that first one on Saturday was so poor.
Have we made a big change, gone from man marking to zonal marking? I can't say I've noticed one like that.
A win on Sunday is desperately required, and we now have in effect 3 full weeks on the training ground coming up and hopefully this will help. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:15 - Aug 28 with 4019 views | Currie10 |
Seems to me - simplistic this -
Shove ANYTHING into the 6 yard area and Bart has zero idea what to do.
Causing absolute chaos with this right now. |  | | |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:23 - Aug 28 with 3978 views | textbackup |
I've only seen the Blackburn game, but has Bart been that off form as suggested? (not suggested by you - but others bits ive read) |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:26 - Aug 28 with 3959 views | Reuser_is_God |
I feel these 3 weeks on the training ground are massive for Hurst.
If we come out of it with our set pieces sorted & with Huws back in the first team picture we’ll be in a good place. [Post edited 28 Aug 2018 8:28]
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:27 - Aug 28 with 3935 views | christiand |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:23 - Aug 28 by textbackup |
I've only seen the Blackburn game, but has Bart been that off form as suggested? (not suggested by you - but others bits ive read) |
Both goals were misjudgements on his part on Saturday and other incidents have occurred during the other games, which he won't be happy with. Bart has been in fine form the last few seasons, but I feel sure he'll be the first to admit that this season hasn't been the best start from a personal level for him. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:30 - Aug 28 with 3912 views | christiand |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:26 - Aug 28 by Reuser_is_God |
I feel these 3 weeks on the training ground are massive for Hurst.
If we come out of it with our set pieces sorted & with Huws back in the first team picture we’ll be in a good place. [Post edited 28 Aug 2018 8:28]
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The conceding of set piece goals can be addressed on the training ground, which will be a welcome relief. Not convinced that 3 weeks training will suddenly install the 'quality' missing in the attacking third to capitalise on the minimal chances we are creating in games. | |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:32 - Aug 28 with 3895 views | homer_123 |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:23 - Aug 28 by textbackup |
I've only seen the Blackburn game, but has Bart been that off form as suggested? (not suggested by you - but others bits ive read) |
Sadly, yes. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:32 - Aug 28 with 3903 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:30 - Aug 28 by christiand |
The conceding of set piece goals can be addressed on the training ground, which will be a welcome relief. Not convinced that 3 weeks training will suddenly install the 'quality' missing in the attacking third to capitalise on the minimal chances we are creating in games. |
Work can be done to ensure we’re a more cohesive attacking unit. | |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:34 - Aug 28 with 3895 views | Steve_M |
Yes, we're in a bit of trouble at the moment: giving away soft goals and not scoring enough whilst bemoaning bad luck and refereeing decisions is a hallmark of a relegation season.
Other than the Blackburn match, most of the goals conceded are, I think, more a lack of concentration than organisational failings. Before the first goal Harrison won a very good and then Chalobah won one from the next corner, he then left Joao free to get in ahead of him from the third set piece. The second goal was dreadful, but the combination of the sending off and Bart flapping stand out there.
The other thing that was obvious in the Summer was that we were losing too much experience, some questioned that but it really does show at times. Notably up front where a lot of good work from Harrison and Jackson will count for nothing if they don't score, or at least make, goals.
We need an experienced striker on loan this week as well as a defender.
We can't play for 90 minutes either, we were starting to fade on Saturday before the sending off, sitting back rather than pressing. Despite the goal, in many ways we looked less like conceding afterwards with Downes playing very well and with fresh legs.
There's even more riding on Sunday now than before, win that and the whole mood changes and Hurst has a base to work with. I don't want to contemplate what happens otherwise. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:34 - Aug 28 with 3884 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:15 - Aug 28 by Currie10 |
Seems to me - simplistic this -
Shove ANYTHING into the 6 yard area and Bart has zero idea what to do.
Causing absolute chaos with this right now. |
It might just be me, but I've never thought Bart was great at commanding his area. That isn't a pop/dig at him, I think he's generally okay at it, but I've always thought he could be better in that respect. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:38 - Aug 28 with 3860 views | homer_123 |
No, we haven't gone to zonal marking from what I've seen Joe but I can say I've seen a number of issues.
1. Bart and communication with the defence - this seems to have massively dropped off in terms of quality - they don't appear to play as a unit.
2. Confidence - from a keeper and defence perspective, for the first time, our back line isn't 100% sure in Bart and possibly vice versa - this is causing a lot of issues.
3. For a side that has some sizeable blokes in it - we have one or two who are struggling to mark their man but also put in any decent kind of challenge in the air at set pieces
4. We are still too slow and ponderous when breaking out
The issue, now, is confidence. After a few more games, style and substance will become increasingly irrelevant. The team needs to get a win on the board, regardless of how.
For me, the new lads in particular who are stepping up a division or two, need it and need it badly. They need to know they can perform at this level.
We've seen encouraging signs but, for me, as I posted over the weekend - in terms of quality of football, yes it has been better that under Mick but this is also partly to do with the low base that Mick left us with - any kind of passing and moving would be better.
I think we can see what PH is trying to do re. footballing style but at the end of the day - without points on the board, it becomes somewhat moot. | |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:40 - Aug 28 with 3841 views | homer_123 |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:34 - Aug 28 by Steve_M |
Yes, we're in a bit of trouble at the moment: giving away soft goals and not scoring enough whilst bemoaning bad luck and refereeing decisions is a hallmark of a relegation season.
Other than the Blackburn match, most of the goals conceded are, I think, more a lack of concentration than organisational failings. Before the first goal Harrison won a very good and then Chalobah won one from the next corner, he then left Joao free to get in ahead of him from the third set piece. The second goal was dreadful, but the combination of the sending off and Bart flapping stand out there.
The other thing that was obvious in the Summer was that we were losing too much experience, some questioned that but it really does show at times. Notably up front where a lot of good work from Harrison and Jackson will count for nothing if they don't score, or at least make, goals.
We need an experienced striker on loan this week as well as a defender.
We can't play for 90 minutes either, we were starting to fade on Saturday before the sending off, sitting back rather than pressing. Despite the goal, in many ways we looked less like conceding afterwards with Downes playing very well and with fresh legs.
There's even more riding on Sunday now than before, win that and the whole mood changes and Hurst has a base to work with. I don't want to contemplate what happens otherwise. |
Steve:
McGoldrick, Waghorn, Garner and Sears
vs
Harrison, Jackson, Sears and Morris
I've said from the get go, that we are light up front, both in terms of physicality for this division and in quality.
Just look at the difference between those two. Couple that with the team not being able to get forward quickly enough to support the lone striker - it's obvious why we are not scoring. | |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:56 - Aug 28 with 3728 views | christiand |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:32 - Aug 28 by Reuser_is_God |
Work can be done to ensure we’re a more cohesive attacking unit. |
'Quality' in being able to finish those chances. We aren't really creating many good opportunities, but we need to take them when they occur and that's my issue where we lack the quality to capitalise. [Post edited 28 Aug 2018 8:58]
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:56 - Aug 28 with 3735 views | Herbivore |
At this point I'm less worried than some. We look to have tightened up defensively with the exception of set piece goals and whilst that is a concern it's also something that should be able to be addressed. It's not like we're a shambles at the back, we just need to tighten up our marking from set plays.
We are still creating chances despite it being clear that we've not yet clicked as an attacking unit and we're getting into a lot of situations where, when the players are more familiar and confident playing with each other in the system, more chances will come. The attacking side is always likely to take longer to click than the defence and - the frustrating set piece goals aside - everyone seems to agree that defensively we've got better game on game. That makes me think we'll see improvements at the other end too.
Finally, the luck issue can't be ignored altogether. It's not making excuses to point out we've been on the receiving end of two very contentious red cards with zero similarly big decisions going our way. At least two of the set pieces we've conceded from shouldn't have been given (Rotherham, Blackburn, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby corner was debatable as was the throw Villa scored from). At Rotherham we were denied one stone wall penalty and had another shout that was more of a foul than the free kick they scored from. Sure decisions are always going to go against you at times and it doesn't excuse how poorly we've defended those situations but it does seem like we're really not getting anything going our way just now. Hopefully that will change and these things will either even themselves out with a few dodgy decisions our way or we'll at least see some of the poor decisions not being give against us.
So yes, there are things to be concerned about but I think it only needs small tweaks and minor swings to turn these narrow (and largely undeserved) losses into draws and wins. With a couple of reinforcements likely this week and with the international break coming up to work on some of these issues and bed everyone in and work on fitness I think ultimately we're going to be fine and probably comfortably so. I feel like I've seen enough to have confidence in that, personally. If of course these issues continue into October and November with no sign of changing then we'll be in trouble. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 09:23 - Aug 28 with 3609 views | Mullet |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:27 - Aug 28 by christiand |
Both goals were misjudgements on his part on Saturday and other incidents have occurred during the other games, which he won't be happy with. Bart has been in fine form the last few seasons, but I feel sure he'll be the first to admit that this season hasn't been the best start from a personal level for him. |
The first one was Chalobah's if we're playing the blame game. He defended the first corner well by winning the header and leaving his man. The second one he only did the latter again.
It's fairly irrelevant as we are failing as a team right now. That's far more important. We need to be utterly galvanised and full of leaders on Sunday. A few too many of the new boys aren't stepping up and as a whole we can't play for 90 minutes.
That level of fundamental flaw is unacceptable and needs fixing. Take a shoot on sight policy Sunday and we'll get something from the game. Carry on as we are and we'll stay looking pretty too far out from goal to do anything before fading out again. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 09:25 - Aug 28 with 3594 views | FrimleyBlue |
No idea who the player was for the first goal, but he just stood there, ducked then looked at their player. no attempt to jump to the ball. let alone what Bart was attempting. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 09:27 - Aug 28 with 3572 views | davblue |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:34 - Aug 28 by Kieran_Knows |
It might just be me, but I've never thought Bart was great at commanding his area. That isn't a pop/dig at him, I think he's generally okay at it, but I've always thought he could be better in that respect. |
I think i've said many times he's a very good shot stopper but the rest of his game isn't premiership quality. |  | | |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 09:36 - Aug 28 with 3520 views | Pinewoodblue |
Totally disorganised for the free kick after the sending off, needed someone to take charge.
Sorting the defending out from set pieces is only half the problem we need someone to put the ball in the net the other end. Neither Harrison nor Jackson strike me as being a primary sticker, more support. Neither seems totally suited to the loan striker role.
Activity in the next couple of days with regards to loans is crucial. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 09:39 - Aug 28 with 3503 views | hype313 |
That 3 week break will be like another pre season, getting the settled squad together, hopefully Bish, Dozzell and Huws will all be involved and we can crack on after that.
If we are still bottom come Xmas/New Year then I think we all can (Hurst included) say it hasn't worked. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 09:51 - Aug 28 with 3439 views | SomethingBlue |
Those three weeks or so are going to be vital — by then we ought to have a virtually fully-fit midfield for the first time in a year, and hopefully a couple of new faces to bed in with the others. It would be a surprise if we hadn't improved considerably after that. Sunday comes at a bit of a strange time for us — brilliant game to get our first win in but also a terrible one to lose at this stage, I don't really like the amount of extra pressure that's been put on it. | |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 10:08 - Aug 28 with 3382 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 09:39 - Aug 28 by hype313 |
That 3 week break will be like another pre season, getting the settled squad together, hopefully Bish, Dozzell and Huws will all be involved and we can crack on after that.
If we are still bottom come Xmas/New Year then I think we all can (Hurst included) say it hasn't worked. |
So basically you're giving a new manager 5 months (one transfer window) and that's it? That's all they get these days? |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 10:12 - Aug 28 with 3361 views | PositivelyPortman |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 08:23 - Aug 28 by textbackup |
I've only seen the Blackburn game, but has Bart been that off form as suggested? (not suggested by you - but others bits ive read) |
He’s been flapping and missing all high balls into his area. |  |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 10:12 - Aug 28 with 3359 views | hype313 |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 10:08 - Aug 28 by BrixtonBlue |
So basically you're giving a new manager 5 months (one transfer window) and that's it? That's all they get these days? |
Hmm, having read that back, it doesn't read how I view it, no, I don't think he should only get 5 months, he should get the term of his contract.
However, if we are winless by Xmas (which I don't believe we will be by any stretch) and languishing, then I can't imagine Evans would just sit back and let it carry on. | |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 10:16 - Aug 28 with 3338 views | FrimleyBlue |
Speaking to a shews fan, set pieces were solid early on last season, but suddenly they struggled and conceded the majority of their goals this way.
Will be interesting to see if the set up on set pieces changes over the course of the next few games | |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 10:16 - Aug 28 with 3334 views | christiand |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 09:23 - Aug 28 by Mullet |
The first one was Chalobah's if we're playing the blame game. He defended the first corner well by winning the header and leaving his man. The second one he only did the latter again.
It's fairly irrelevant as we are failing as a team right now. That's far more important. We need to be utterly galvanised and full of leaders on Sunday. A few too many of the new boys aren't stepping up and as a whole we can't play for 90 minutes.
That level of fundamental flaw is unacceptable and needs fixing. Take a shoot on sight policy Sunday and we'll get something from the game. Carry on as we are and we'll stay looking pretty too far out from goal to do anything before fading out again. |
Disagree Mullet, I think Bart will also think himself culpable for that first goal. If he didn't rush out and get caught in no man's land he'd have just caught the resulting header on the goal line. He might have even called for it, which might have temporarily distracted our defender, thinking he was coming to collect it. Agree that Chalobah's defending was poor, but Bart will feel responsible for that goal, I know I would. | |
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| Bottom of the league then.... on 10:16 - Aug 28 with 3330 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Bottom of the league then.... on 10:12 - Aug 28 by hype313 |
Hmm, having read that back, it doesn't read how I view it, no, I don't think he should only get 5 months, he should get the term of his contract.
However, if we are winless by Xmas (which I don't believe we will be by any stretch) and languishing, then I can't imagine Evans would just sit back and let it carry on. |
Fairy nuff.
Yes, as much as I want Hurst given time, if we don't get a win in the next 4 months that would be disastrous! | |
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