| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those 09:11 - Mar 3 with 6994 views | giant_stow |
On zero hour / gig contracts suffering from rising prices, sent from the tube drivers today. To go with their gratefully received message on Tues. And not forgetting their continuing weekend show of support - they're really on the side of the less well off and never miss a chance to show that. Thanks brothers. [Post edited 3 Mar 2022 9:16]
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:21 - Mar 3 with 2448 views | noggin |
Yeah but zero hours contracts are good, or something. Just because millions of people accept poor pay and conditions shouldn't mean those with strong unions shouldn't fight for themselves. |  |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:22 - Mar 3 with 2438 views | giant_stow |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:21 - Mar 3 by noggin |
Yeah but zero hours contracts are good, or something. Just because millions of people accept poor pay and conditions shouldn't mean those with strong unions shouldn't fight for themselves. |
Spoken like a true leftie, brother. Me first. | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:27 - Mar 3 with 2411 views | Ewan_Oozami |
So are you saying you want tube drivers to be on zero hours contracts? |  |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:30 - Mar 3 with 2406 views | noggin |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:22 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
Spoken like a true leftie, brother. Me first. |
So everyone should just accept their lot and think themselves fortunate? | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:46 - Mar 3 with 2350 views | giant_stow |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:27 - Mar 3 by Ewan_Oozami |
So are you saying you want tube drivers to be on zero hours contracts? |
No. I'd like them to realise how lucky they are and stop striking to help those less fortunate. And before someone says it, I don't use the tube anymore - this isn't a personal complaint - I'm thinking of others who do. | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:51 - Mar 3 with 2328 views | giant_stow |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:30 - Mar 3 by noggin |
So everyone should just accept their lot and think themselves fortunate? |
Those who on 70/80 grand a year might consider doing that, yes. Especially when their sector is shrinking - others in similar situations have taken pay cuts to keep the employment of all up, afterall. | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:10 - Mar 3 with 2256 views | noggin |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:51 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
Those who on 70/80 grand a year might consider doing that, yes. Especially when their sector is shrinking - others in similar situations have taken pay cuts to keep the employment of all up, afterall. |
People don't take pay cuts to help the economy. They take pay cuts, very often, because they are being exploited. | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:12 - Mar 3 with 2242 views | noggin |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:51 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
Those who on 70/80 grand a year might consider doing that, yes. Especially when their sector is shrinking - others in similar situations have taken pay cuts to keep the employment of all up, afterall. |
Surely your outrage should be at the super rich and the corporations who actively seek to avoid paying taxes and who pay their staff minimum wages. | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:15 - Mar 3 with 2215 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:46 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
No. I'd like them to realise how lucky they are and stop striking to help those less fortunate. And before someone says it, I don't use the tube anymore - this isn't a personal complaint - I'm thinking of others who do. |
Those lucky oiks abusing their position should know their place... | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:19 - Mar 3 with 2191 views | WD19 |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:10 - Mar 3 by noggin |
People don't take pay cuts to help the economy. They take pay cuts, very often, because they are being exploited. |
In my experience people take pay cuts as a last resort to preserve the jobs of colleagues. Being outraged be at the super rich is just a "Oh look, seagulls" distraction by the comfortably off who wish to pull up the drawbridge on others and preserve their conscience at the same time.
Many tube drivers are in the top 10% of earners in the UK - which is neither right or wrong because it is a skilled and valuable job - but fighting against 'the man' for the working classes they are not. |  | | |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:21 - Mar 3 with 2170 views | giant_stow |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:15 - Mar 3 by Ewan_Oozami |
Those lucky oiks abusing their position should know their place... |
You wouldn't be putting words in my mouth would you dear heart, cos thats not what i said at all. [Post edited 3 Mar 2022 10:23]
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:25 - Mar 3 with 2147 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:19 - Mar 3 by WD19 |
In my experience people take pay cuts as a last resort to preserve the jobs of colleagues. Being outraged be at the super rich is just a "Oh look, seagulls" distraction by the comfortably off who wish to pull up the drawbridge on others and preserve their conscience at the same time.
Many tube drivers are in the top 10% of earners in the UK - which is neither right or wrong because it is a skilled and valuable job - but fighting against 'the man' for the working classes they are not. |
They are simply looking to preserve their position. Their actions are based on self interest in much the same way a select few were able to take advantage with the supply of PPE.
Snouts in the trough. |  |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:27 - Mar 3 with 2143 views | giant_stow |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:25 - Mar 3 by Pinewoodblue |
They are simply looking to preserve their position. Their actions are based on self interest in much the same way a select few were able to take advantage with the supply of PPE.
Snouts in the trough. |
...yes and disguised with leftisim. Tbh, I know I've gone about this here over the years (there's been plenty of opportunity) but their hypocrisy actually disgusts me. | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:38 - Mar 3 with 2088 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:21 - Mar 3 by giant_stow |
You wouldn't be putting words in my mouth would you dear heart, cos thats not what i said at all. [Post edited 3 Mar 2022 10:23]
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So are you saying if they earned less money it'd be ok for them to strike? | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:44 - Mar 3 with 2051 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:38 - Mar 3 by Ewan_Oozami |
So are you saying if they earned less money it'd be ok for them to strike? |
Here comes Roger Irrelevant. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:45 - Mar 3 with 2051 views | homer_123 |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:21 - Mar 3 by noggin |
Yeah but zero hours contracts are good, or something. Just because millions of people accept poor pay and conditions shouldn't mean those with strong unions shouldn't fight for themselves. |
Just in the interests of balance. Zero Hour contracts are not 'bad' as such.
We work with a number of clients that use them for sections of their workforce but use them the way they were intended. In that it's a two way street, a partnership if you will - with clear, concise comms, good planning and both parties accepting the way in which they should be used.
Those on them can easily flex their hours and do so without any pressure or issues from the company and the company can flex their workforce depending on demand.
There, of course, is a flip side and I recognise that but that is typically more to do with how company use/ abuse them. Not with the principal of zero-hours. |  |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:47 - Mar 3 with 2041 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 09:21 - Mar 3 by noggin |
Yeah but zero hours contracts are good, or something. Just because millions of people accept poor pay and conditions shouldn't mean those with strong unions shouldn't fight for themselves. |
It's not so much a strong union as they have London over a barrel due to people needing to get about. Which is why they do strike over strike over strike. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:54 - Mar 3 with 2011 views | Darth_Koont |
They’re clearly trying to disrupt behind enemy lines on orders from Putin. |  |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:55 - Mar 3 with 2011 views | Sarge |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:47 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's not so much a strong union as they have London over a barrel due to people needing to get about. Which is why they do strike over strike over strike. |
I’d like to know what the RMT’s suggestions are for the black hole of money that TFL is in. It’s not sustainable in its current form.
Perhaps I’m wrong but I thought I read that TFL announced no redundancies but they won’t be looking to fill the gaps when people move on. If that’s true then what’s the issue?
Other metro systems have driverless trains, indeed we have them on the DLR. So not only do we maintain a heavily staffed underground service when to be honest we probably could automate more of it, we pay them 50% more than the average UK salary. And for what? 8-10 weeks of service before they strike again and grind the capital and large parts of the south to a halt? |  | | |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 11:13 - Mar 3 with 1949 views | giant_stow |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:54 - Mar 3 by Darth_Koont |
They’re clearly trying to disrupt behind enemy lines on orders from Putin. |
Oh so you do read the Telegraph afterall! You scamp, you had me going! | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 11:17 - Mar 3 with 1931 views | giant_stow |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:55 - Mar 3 by Sarge |
I’d like to know what the RMT’s suggestions are for the black hole of money that TFL is in. It’s not sustainable in its current form.
Perhaps I’m wrong but I thought I read that TFL announced no redundancies but they won’t be looking to fill the gaps when people move on. If that’s true then what’s the issue?
Other metro systems have driverless trains, indeed we have them on the DLR. So not only do we maintain a heavily staffed underground service when to be honest we probably could automate more of it, we pay them 50% more than the average UK salary. And for what? 8-10 weeks of service before they strike again and grind the capital and large parts of the south to a halt? |
You touch on the wider picture: they're a one-union argument for the benefits of automation and against unions having more power. They're the enemy of those in vulnerable industries. | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 11:32 - Mar 3 with 1887 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:55 - Mar 3 by Sarge |
I’d like to know what the RMT’s suggestions are for the black hole of money that TFL is in. It’s not sustainable in its current form.
Perhaps I’m wrong but I thought I read that TFL announced no redundancies but they won’t be looking to fill the gaps when people move on. If that’s true then what’s the issue?
Other metro systems have driverless trains, indeed we have them on the DLR. So not only do we maintain a heavily staffed underground service when to be honest we probably could automate more of it, we pay them 50% more than the average UK salary. And for what? 8-10 weeks of service before they strike again and grind the capital and large parts of the south to a halt? |
Would TFL ever be sustainable without subsidy? We certainly need a better discussion about how transport is funded in the UK. I'm not aware of any other major transport infrastructure in western Europe that doesn't receive significant government subsidy. Even in the land of the free market, the New York subway operator receives Federal and State/City subsidies via direct grants and taxes (about 45% of income apparently).
The drivers seem to earn a reasonable whack at about £50-55k base salary. But it's in line with train drivers working for other operators across the UK, so it's not out of place at all. I can't really comment more than that and I'm not too keen on a race to the bottom, so Ullaa's comments about gig economy workers aren't really relevant to the drovers' salaries (although valid that gig economy workers shouldn't be exploited as much).
No reason why we can't look at more automation though, as long as it could be done safely and not driven solely by cost. |  |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 11:40 - Mar 3 with 1864 views | homer_123 |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 11:32 - Mar 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Would TFL ever be sustainable without subsidy? We certainly need a better discussion about how transport is funded in the UK. I'm not aware of any other major transport infrastructure in western Europe that doesn't receive significant government subsidy. Even in the land of the free market, the New York subway operator receives Federal and State/City subsidies via direct grants and taxes (about 45% of income apparently).
The drivers seem to earn a reasonable whack at about £50-55k base salary. But it's in line with train drivers working for other operators across the UK, so it's not out of place at all. I can't really comment more than that and I'm not too keen on a race to the bottom, so Ullaa's comments about gig economy workers aren't really relevant to the drovers' salaries (although valid that gig economy workers shouldn't be exploited as much).
No reason why we can't look at more automation though, as long as it could be done safely and not driven solely by cost. |
You can see why we struggle to have a grown up debate about how to fund the NHS. | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 11:49 - Mar 3 with 1816 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 10:44 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Here comes Roger Irrelevant. |
I need my own theme tune.... | |
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| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 11:56 - Mar 3 with 1775 views | giant_stow |
| Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 11:32 - Mar 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Would TFL ever be sustainable without subsidy? We certainly need a better discussion about how transport is funded in the UK. I'm not aware of any other major transport infrastructure in western Europe that doesn't receive significant government subsidy. Even in the land of the free market, the New York subway operator receives Federal and State/City subsidies via direct grants and taxes (about 45% of income apparently).
The drivers seem to earn a reasonable whack at about £50-55k base salary. But it's in line with train drivers working for other operators across the UK, so it's not out of place at all. I can't really comment more than that and I'm not too keen on a race to the bottom, so Ullaa's comments about gig economy workers aren't really relevant to the drovers' salaries (although valid that gig economy workers shouldn't be exploited as much).
No reason why we can't look at more automation though, as long as it could be done safely and not driven solely by cost. |
I'm not asking for a race to the bottom - I'm asking for those at the top to stick and not twist.
The relevance of people on zero hours contracts is that these strikes directly affect those workers' ability to earn money on a given day. | |
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