| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 09:58 - Jul 17 with 4338 views | keighleyblue |
Seems to be a Starmer bashing agenda with the Guardian atm. Can't help but think it's not really helping the country to get rid of the real problem in front of us. |  | |  |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:10 - Jul 17 with 4280 views | Guthrum |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 09:58 - Jul 17 by keighleyblue |
Seems to be a Starmer bashing agenda with the Guardian atm. Can't help but think it's not really helping the country to get rid of the real problem in front of us. |
Altho it is a problem if we merely replace the present government with one which is identical, but slightly more efficient and more internally authoritarian. It may just be an impression, but it seems every time recently Starmer has been asked about a current Conservative policy, he answers that Labour intend to continue it once in power. Even Blair didn't do that.
I can stomach having just incremental progression, but no progression at all is a bit pointless. Koonters may have been right all along.
I suspect there are some planners and advisors at Labour head office who are so desperate to attract Conservative voters that they are resorting to pretending to be them. A theory which risks leaving behind all the people who might vote Labour because they want change. Also daft at a time when they were already well ahead in the polls. |  |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:11 - Jul 17 with 4274 views | pointofblue |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 09:58 - Jul 17 by keighleyblue |
Seems to be a Starmer bashing agenda with the Guardian atm. Can't help but think it's not really helping the country to get rid of the real problem in front of us. |
Starmer seems to be promising the same though. The Conservatives are a real problem, but what are his solutions to their issues? |  |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:23 - Jul 17 with 4227 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:10 - Jul 17 by Guthrum |
Altho it is a problem if we merely replace the present government with one which is identical, but slightly more efficient and more internally authoritarian. It may just be an impression, but it seems every time recently Starmer has been asked about a current Conservative policy, he answers that Labour intend to continue it once in power. Even Blair didn't do that.
I can stomach having just incremental progression, but no progression at all is a bit pointless. Koonters may have been right all along.
I suspect there are some planners and advisors at Labour head office who are so desperate to attract Conservative voters that they are resorting to pretending to be them. A theory which risks leaving behind all the people who might vote Labour because they want change. Also daft at a time when they were already well ahead in the polls. |
Although Blair did continue the Major/Clarke spending plans for the first three years of the New Labour Government. |  |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:23 - Jul 17 with 4242 views | blueasfook |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 09:58 - Jul 17 by keighleyblue |
Seems to be a Starmer bashing agenda with the Guardian atm. Can't help but think it's not really helping the country to get rid of the real problem in front of us. |
Of course. They are still bitter about St Jeremy being deposed. |  |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:29 - Jul 17 with 4212 views | Blueschev |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:23 - Jul 17 by blueasfook |
Of course. They are still bitter about St Jeremy being deposed. |
The Guardian was probably Corbyn's biggest critic. |  | | |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:31 - Jul 17 with 4209 views | noggin |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:23 - Jul 17 by blueasfook |
Of course. They are still bitter about St Jeremy being deposed. |
British politics appears worse off for him being deposed. Britain is crumbling beneath your feet and nobody seems willing to fix it. [Post edited 17 Jul 2023 10:35]
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:47 - Jul 17 with 4166 views | itfcjoe |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:11 - Jul 17 by pointofblue |
Starmer seems to be promising the same though. The Conservatives are a real problem, but what are his solutions to their issues? |
There is this seeming pressure for him to take a position on every issue, to reverse every change the Tories have made in the last 13 years etc.
The reality is Labour aren't going to show what their vision is for the country until we get onto electoral footing.
At 20 points ahead in the polls, with a few by elections coming up this week they just need to keep doing what they are doign.
Otherwise, any spending plans sees the biased right wing press setting the "can't trust Labour with the economy" message that vast swathes of voters don't take much encouragement to lap up.
They are the opposition, their job is to oppose - not to set out their alternative plans at every stage |  |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:53 - Jul 17 with 4148 views | Blueschev |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:47 - Jul 17 by itfcjoe |
There is this seeming pressure for him to take a position on every issue, to reverse every change the Tories have made in the last 13 years etc.
The reality is Labour aren't going to show what their vision is for the country until we get onto electoral footing.
At 20 points ahead in the polls, with a few by elections coming up this week they just need to keep doing what they are doign.
Otherwise, any spending plans sees the biased right wing press setting the "can't trust Labour with the economy" message that vast swathes of voters don't take much encouragement to lap up.
They are the opposition, their job is to oppose - not to set out their alternative plans at every stage |
But the biased right-wing press will say that about Labour regardless of their policies, the current strategy is just enabling the Tories to set the agenda and the tone of the debate.
It is the oppositions job to oppose, and I hope to see them actually starting to do it. I won't hold my breath though. | | | |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:54 - Jul 17 with 4146 views | Ryorry |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:31 - Jul 17 by noggin |
British politics appears worse off for him being deposed. Britain is crumbling beneath your feet and nobody seems willing to fix it. [Post edited 17 Jul 2023 10:35]
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It certainly won't be fixed if continually bashing Labour divides their vote & allows the stinking tories back in.
I can see what KS is doing - ie trying to attract the soft tory vote, esp with the constant loud repetition of ensuring policies are costed, just to try & gain power - but as Guthers says, he's not noticing that in doing so, he's losing many traditional Labour voters. He needs to get more feedback & listen to people, incl on social media. |  |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:57 - Jul 17 with 4135 views | DJR |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:23 - Jul 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Although Blair did continue the Major/Clarke spending plans for the first three years of the New Labour Government. |
And I think that was a mistake because it prevented Labour from being more radical in its honeymoon period when it really had carte blanche.
Of course, things are different now to then, but I don't recall Blair ruling out as many things well before an election as Starmer is doing now.
Take for instance abolition of the two child benefit rule. Why rule out the repeal of an obviously unfair measure, rather than saying, it is something we would like to do but it is likely to be some time off?
Of course it may be that Labour have similar attitudes to those on benefits as the Tories, if these from Rachel Reeves in an earlier life are anything to go by.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/12/labour-benefits-tories-labour-r
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/anger-after-reeves-tells-benefit-claimants [Post edited 17 Jul 2023 11:23]
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:59 - Jul 17 with 4125 views | pointofblue |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:47 - Jul 17 by itfcjoe |
There is this seeming pressure for him to take a position on every issue, to reverse every change the Tories have made in the last 13 years etc.
The reality is Labour aren't going to show what their vision is for the country until we get onto electoral footing.
At 20 points ahead in the polls, with a few by elections coming up this week they just need to keep doing what they are doign.
Otherwise, any spending plans sees the biased right wing press setting the "can't trust Labour with the economy" message that vast swathes of voters don't take much encouragement to lap up.
They are the opposition, their job is to oppose - not to set out their alternative plans at every stage |
At the same time, Starmer has found time to scale back and delay the climate pledge, done a u-turn on income tax for highest earners and indicated that will not increase capital gains tax.
Starmer shouldn’t be low-towing to the right wing press and fearing their response. He probably has more freedom than any Labour leader over the last 30 years - possibly even more than Blair - to be radical and get things into shape. | |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:00 - Jul 17 with 4116 views | itfcjoe |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:53 - Jul 17 by Blueschev |
But the biased right-wing press will say that about Labour regardless of their policies, the current strategy is just enabling the Tories to set the agenda and the tone of the debate.
It is the oppositions job to oppose, and I hope to see them actually starting to do it. I won't hold my breath though. |
They will - but why spend 18 months of that message being delivered as opposed to just the actual election campaign saying that?
I think they are going too far with their culling of the party personell; but just don't see the issue with not having to have a view on everything and an alternate in place for it | |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:11 - Jul 17 with 4049 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:31 - Jul 17 by noggin |
British politics appears worse off for him being deposed. Britain is crumbling beneath your feet and nobody seems willing to fix it. [Post edited 17 Jul 2023 10:35]
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Deposed? I thought he resigned after Labour's biggest election defeat in decades? | |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:17 - Jul 17 with 4022 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:11 - Jul 17 by GlasgowBlue |
Deposed? I thought he resigned after Labour's biggest election defeat in decades? |
Yeah, I don't get that.
He presided over multiple General Election defeats and his policies were rejected by the British public.
While Starmer needs to do more to show a true difference, why would he repeat the colossal mistakes of Corbyn? |  | | |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:17 - Jul 17 with 4018 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:47 - Jul 17 by itfcjoe |
There is this seeming pressure for him to take a position on every issue, to reverse every change the Tories have made in the last 13 years etc.
The reality is Labour aren't going to show what their vision is for the country until we get onto electoral footing.
At 20 points ahead in the polls, with a few by elections coming up this week they just need to keep doing what they are doign.
Otherwise, any spending plans sees the biased right wing press setting the "can't trust Labour with the economy" message that vast swathes of voters don't take much encouragement to lap up.
They are the opposition, their job is to oppose - not to set out their alternative plans at every stage |
As things currently stand it looks as if a significant number of Tory voters will stay away from polling stations at this weeks by- elections. No need to rock the boat and scare those Tories into voting.
The Tory landslide at the last election wasn’t just people voting Tory for the first time. Labour voters who didn’t vote played a big part. |  |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:18 - Jul 17 with 4016 views | Ryorry |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:11 - Jul 17 by pointofblue |
Starmer seems to be promising the same though. The Conservatives are a real problem, but what are his solutions to their issues? |
As soon as he releases something good, the tories pull the rug from under him by stealing it!! (as happened a few weeks ago).
He's right if he's trying to keep the major part of Labour's powder dry - though it would be helpful if he dropped a few crumbs now & then to keep the wolves at bay. | |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:22 - Jul 17 with 3988 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 10:29 - Jul 17 by Blueschev |
The Guardian was probably Corbyn's biggest critic. |
Worth remembering that the Jezziah was going to keep keep £7bn of planned Tory welfare cuts.
"Three-quarters of the huge package of benefit cuts announced by the former chancellor in 2015 are yet to be implemented, including a major reduction in support given to the low-paid, and limiting payments to families with more than two children".
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/20/labour-manifesto-keep-planned-t | |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:22 - Jul 17 with 3987 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:17 - Jul 17 by ElderGrizzly |
Yeah, I don't get that.
He presided over multiple General Election defeats and his policies were rejected by the British public.
While Starmer needs to do more to show a true difference, why would he repeat the colossal mistakes of Corbyn? |
All part of the re-writing of history - much like the heroic defeat in 2017. The only thing is losing to Teresa May is the footballing equivalent of losing to Andorra. | | | |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:22 - Jul 17 with 3986 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:18 - Jul 17 by Ryorry |
As soon as he releases something good, the tories pull the rug from under him by stealing it!! (as happened a few weeks ago).
He's right if he's trying to keep the major part of Labour's powder dry - though it would be helpful if he dropped a few crumbs now & then to keep the wolves at bay. |
Him saying he won't change things, is also dropping crumbs.
He's doing what all politicians do to test how policies might land with the public, without putting them in an election manifesto, which Joe rightly points out won't be required for another 12 months I assume. | | | |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:34 - Jul 17 with 3917 views | pointofblue |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:18 - Jul 17 by Ryorry |
As soon as he releases something good, the tories pull the rug from under him by stealing it!! (as happened a few weeks ago).
He's right if he's trying to keep the major part of Labour's powder dry - though it would be helpful if he dropped a few crumbs now & then to keep the wolves at bay. |
How’s that a bad thing? If it’s something good, isn’t is best to get it implemented as soon as possible, even if it is by the current government? | |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:38 - Jul 17 with 3899 views | noggin |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:17 - Jul 17 by ElderGrizzly |
Yeah, I don't get that.
He presided over multiple General Election defeats and his policies were rejected by the British public.
While Starmer needs to do more to show a true difference, why would he repeat the colossal mistakes of Corbyn? |
I'm not sure his policies were rejected, it was more the man that was rejected. | |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:41 - Jul 17 with 3873 views | pointofblue |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:38 - Jul 17 by noggin |
I'm not sure his policies were rejected, it was more the man that was rejected. |
Agreed. He was great at preaching at the converted, but poor at communicating ideas to those on the fence.
In hindsight, I wish I had voted Labour in 2019, not that it would have made much difference. | |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:48 - Jul 17 with 3831 views | Darth_Koont |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:17 - Jul 17 by ElderGrizzly |
Yeah, I don't get that.
He presided over multiple General Election defeats and his policies were rejected by the British public.
While Starmer needs to do more to show a true difference, why would he repeat the colossal mistakes of Corbyn? |
The policies weren’t rejected. The policies polled (and still poll) very well.
It wasn’t the message but the messenger that was rejected. After one of the most brutal and dishonest personal attacks in our political history.
In fact, I barely remember the media or Corbyn’s critics ever addressing policy beyond blankly dismissing stuff as unworkable, uncosted and/or “Marxist”. Then some wooly, empty accusations about antisemitism, him working against Remain or being a security threat to move the discussion away from the real needs of the UK and its citizens.
That policy-less, self-interested void is what Starmer is working now. And we’re still being sold the same ineffective but power-serving platform we’ve been sold for decades as if the UK economy and society weren’t struggling before Covid. Huge swathes of the population have been having a cost-of-living crisis for years with over 4 million children in poverty seen as somehow inevitable.
We need to grow up and take policy seriously. As much as anything else because we have failed to address underlying issues (and in most cases have made them far worse) with this laissez-faire, “the market will find a way” madness. |  |
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| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:51 - Jul 17 with 3812 views | Blueschev |
| Keir Starmer is threatening to leave our crises unchanged… on 11:41 - Jul 17 by pointofblue |
Agreed. He was great at preaching at the converted, but poor at communicating ideas to those on the fence.
In hindsight, I wish I had voted Labour in 2019, not that it would have made much difference. |
He was wholly unsuited to party leadership. Though it's difficult to communicate your ideas when they are constantly mis-represented by every major news source across the political spectrum, not to mention almost the entire PLP. | | | |
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