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Question for all who were able to enjoy the town football of those times. But interested to hear views on how does football compare between the eras?
I watched earlier on itv4 a 1982 match between man city and town at main road. And for me and my son watching it just looked so far away from the speed and technical abilities of players today.
That is just one game of course but I just wanted to ask those who watched a lot lot more of it. What was the football actually like? Would a Brazil for example be picked ahead of a delap?
Honestly, I’d question whether today’s footballers would be able to handle the game back then. You mention physical and technical ability being further ahead now but… 1. Squad rotation is a massive advantage to the speed of the game today. Even with us now, I love seeing McKennas teams run flat out before being subbed but that wasn’t an option in Brazil’s time. They did it but with no back up. 2. Modern footballers are totally pampered in comparison to those that came before them. From flying to games, to nutritionists, to medical care, to facilities. Robson turned us into one of the physically strongest teams by training on the beach. Read Butchers accounts of European games and riding on coaches across Europe, the team coach stopping for fish and chips after games etc 3. There’s less games today and no proper tackling. People wax lyrical about Bates tackle on Chadwick etc but that was common place back then. The game was so much harder physically during Brazil’s playing days (and before), it’s a miracle they showed up match after match. 4. Technically, we were cutting edge under Robson with our passing and movement and I don’t see many Premiership teams do it better today. Players could also really move with the ball at their feet back then, across many positions in a team. Taking a man on was second nature and you don’t see a huge amount of that now which is ironic considering nobody’s allowed to tackle you.
Having watched us since the late 70s until now, I’ve enjoyed both the old and the modern. It’s different for sure but it’s by no means better now. I
I watched SBRs teams and I think it's impossible to compare eras.
Would our current first 11 beat SBRs first 11? The easy answer is 'yes' because our current players have better athleticism. But then consider the following and you might come up with a different answer.
1. SBR could only name one substitute. So KMc's approach of empty the tank and I'll replace you after 65 mins wasn't possible. 2. What our players could do with the ball on 1970/1980s pitches was incredible. I doubt our current team would be able to cope with those pitches. 3. It's easy to be brave on the ball now, as you're not likely to be hacked down. Tackles that are a red card for dangerous play weren't even a yellow back in the day.
One thing that I do think gives our current team the edge, is our defenders ability to pass the ball. Back in the day there was usually the option to pass it back to the keeper who could pick it up. Now defenders need the ability to look for other options.
[Post edited 17 Nov 2024 6:37]
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 07:40 - Nov 17 with 3471 views
Brazil was not brilliant in the air but I saw him score a hat trick of headers. It was at an end of season reserve game and Robson felt he needed an addition up front so he gave Don Martin a trial and played him alongside the young up and coming Brazil. Needless to say Don Martin was not given a contract. However, I always felt Brazil was overrated. He scored some eye catching goals but not consistent enough. David Johnson the second was also, in my opinion, the same. Just my opinion.
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 08:30 - Nov 17 with 3356 views
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 03:35 - Nov 17 by SE1blue
Honestly, I’d question whether today’s footballers would be able to handle the game back then. You mention physical and technical ability being further ahead now but… 1. Squad rotation is a massive advantage to the speed of the game today. Even with us now, I love seeing McKennas teams run flat out before being subbed but that wasn’t an option in Brazil’s time. They did it but with no back up. 2. Modern footballers are totally pampered in comparison to those that came before them. From flying to games, to nutritionists, to medical care, to facilities. Robson turned us into one of the physically strongest teams by training on the beach. Read Butchers accounts of European games and riding on coaches across Europe, the team coach stopping for fish and chips after games etc 3. There’s less games today and no proper tackling. People wax lyrical about Bates tackle on Chadwick etc but that was common place back then. The game was so much harder physically during Brazil’s playing days (and before), it’s a miracle they showed up match after match. 4. Technically, we were cutting edge under Robson with our passing and movement and I don’t see many Premiership teams do it better today. Players could also really move with the ball at their feet back then, across many positions in a team. Taking a man on was second nature and you don’t see a huge amount of that now which is ironic considering nobody’s allowed to tackle you.
Having watched us since the late 70s until now, I’ve enjoyed both the old and the modern. It’s different for sure but it’s by no means better now. I
Just to add to this very good summary I’d say:
1. Pitches ranged from good in August to mud piles and worse by December to hardened mud piles by the spring. When you see PR pics from the 70s and think the pitch looks bad, it was one of the best in England. The ball was noticeably heavier too. 2. Osman played every minute of every game in 80/81 - well over 60 games and most of the team weren’t far behind. Europe Tuesday/Weds, league game 3pm Sat. 3. The game was as fast at times, but the pace of games varied throughout. Slow, faster, fast and so on. Most players were two footed too. Roger scored the winning goal in 78 with his weaker foot and his finishing wasn’t the best. 4. Players are in general physically a lot bigger now and better looked after. No steak before a game and a knee packed with steroids to get you out there. 5. The game self regulated more. There was diving (see Francis Lee), but far less of it. You didn’t go down screaming in those days. You’d be scorned by your own team, let alone the opposition. Also, if you did a naughty one, say an over the top tackle, retribution would come from somewhere later in the game. By and large, players could look after themselves. Paul Mariner and Trevor Whymark? Hard as nails. 6. Facilities in grounds were non existent really. Standing, crammed in on crumbling terraces at some grounds with half a view and the stench of unwashed bodies, fags, booze and worse - today’s Cobbold stand was luxury in the 70s/80s with good legroom. People not just players have got bigger.
So was it better back in the day? Some things were. No deafening music, cardboard Sky backdrop, phoney handshakes, balls on little cones, some of the raw, intense games, watching steam in winter come out of both ends of the sh£thouse behind Churchmans, proper tackling, heavy but advert free classic shirts.
However, plenty of matches back then were dull too. Crowds are better and some of the football KMs produced in the last couple of years has been brilliant. As exciting if not better than way back when.
Do I enjoy the games as much? Yes. I’m as engaged now the same as I was at 10 years old. As you get older, you tend to look at the past through nostalgia lens. There was plenty of things wrong or plain poor back then as well as the good bits.
In conclusion, it’s just different now. It has its own merits and downsides, but it’s the best team game on the planet and always will be.
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 08:35 - Nov 17 with 3324 views
Players are conditioned much better these days and the surfaces they play on cannot be compared. Brazil, Mariner, Butcher, Mills, Gates, Wark, Burley and many others from those days could walk straight into our current side. Don't be fooled by the speed of the game or the haircuts, these guys could play and play bl00dy well. Thijssen for instance, was better than Rice and he sold for £105M. It's their lifestyles off the pitch that would have had to change drastically. Having a fag at half time for instance, probably not allowed now. Having a session on a friday night before a 3pm saturday kick off would be a no no. These players and others like Best, Charlton, Law, Hoddle, Clemance, Keegan, Dalglish etc. were fantastic footballers and would be worth £100's of millions in todays market.
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 08:35 - Nov 17 by Lord_Lucan
I don't think the players of yesteryear could cope with the pace now but I do think there was more natural flare back then.
It was more fun then though, and isn't that the main thing?
I'm not so sure on the pace of the game thing. The players of yesteryear could shift. Remember the surfaces they were playing on. I could do 100 yards with ball at feet in under 14 seconds back then, with 16 stud boots on. They had to last the whole 90 mins and would have lumps kicks out of them. Please don't be fooled, those guys back then were players of the highest order.
You really are comparing apples and pears when looking at teams from different eras.
As well as the many good points above, consider how players are developed as kids compared to back in the day. I played u8s football on full size pitches where you were encouraged to get the ball to the other end of the field as quickly as possible. My boy has had a very different football upbringing and his team play lovely football.
That Town team however were one of the finest in Europe, a joy to behold, and our current crop have a long way to go to be their equals.
Different generations so it’s impossible to say who would be picked ahead of the other.
Brazil and Delap are quite similar. Bags of pace and strength, clinical finishers and like to cut in from wide positions.
I never saw Alan Brazil miss a one on one against the keeper. Absolutely clinical. Shame that injury cut his career short. He struggled with fitness after he left us and he had been playing for Spurs and Man United with an undiagnosed back issue.
Edit. This game shows peak Brazil. He’s involved in everything we did that day and his goal on 2.04 is the most Delap goal you will see.
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 09:05 - Nov 17 by GlasgowBlue
Different generations so it’s impossible to say who would be picked ahead of the other.
Brazil and Delap are quite similar. Bags of pace and strength, clinical finishers and like to cut in from wide positions.
I never saw Alan Brazil miss a one on one against the keeper. Absolutely clinical. Shame that injury cut his career short. He struggled with fitness after he left us and he had been playing for Spurs and Man United with an undiagnosed back issue.
Edit. This game shows peak Brazil. He’s involved in everything we did that day and his goal on 2.04 is the most Delap goal you will see.
[Post edited 17 Nov 2024 9:13]
Brazil in his prime was absolutely lethal. One the best finishers to play for us (I saw Crawford at the end of his career, but don’t really remember him) and up there with the best. A one on one? Thank you and goodnight.
I too see the Delap similarity.
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 10:23 - Nov 17 with 2936 views
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 09:05 - Nov 17 by GlasgowBlue
Different generations so it’s impossible to say who would be picked ahead of the other.
Brazil and Delap are quite similar. Bags of pace and strength, clinical finishers and like to cut in from wide positions.
I never saw Alan Brazil miss a one on one against the keeper. Absolutely clinical. Shame that injury cut his career short. He struggled with fitness after he left us and he had been playing for Spurs and Man United with an undiagnosed back issue.
Edit. This game shows peak Brazil. He’s involved in everything we did that day and his goal on 2.04 is the most Delap goal you will see.
[Post edited 17 Nov 2024 9:13]
Amazing to think that (as mentioned in the commentary at the end) that team were in the bottom three before that match, after a poor start to the season. We then went 23 league games unbeaten, including a 6-0 demolition of second placed Man Utd, to finish third. I wonder……………….
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 10:36 - Nov 17 with 2878 views
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 08:47 - Nov 17 by MK1
I'm not so sure on the pace of the game thing. The players of yesteryear could shift. Remember the surfaces they were playing on. I could do 100 yards with ball at feet in under 14 seconds back then, with 16 stud boots on. They had to last the whole 90 mins and would have lumps kicks out of them. Please don't be fooled, those guys back then were players of the highest order.
the players of the 1980s were all very good & also they had to be physically tougher than you do now. Modern players are far fitter through better conditioning & looking after themselves better, but players from the 1980s would surely have been able to adapt. The game is now much faster & some of those players wouldn't have been able to adapt. However, in the 1980s we were only seeing the beginning of the "foreign invasion" with our Dutch players, Spurs's Argentinians etc. Now, the PL attracts many of the world's best & plenty of the British players from that era would have been Championship players at best.
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 11:36 - Nov 17 by FrimleyBlue
Thanks all for the great replies.
Past players who I think could play in the modern game
Beattie, especially given the improvement in medical care Burley was a full back ahead of his time and could play as a modern wing back Mariner think the best of all the strikers you have ever seen and them some Gates - I see similarities with Chappers in where he played and the way he played Brazil - purely for finishing ability Viljeon - for range of passing Muhren - just because Thijssen - a bit like Morsy and Mass combined and some
and oh boy would I love to see Big Al tackle some of the modern players, although he fairness he'd probably get red carded pretty early on
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 11:59 - Nov 17 by Keno
Past players who I think could play in the modern game
Beattie, especially given the improvement in medical care Burley was a full back ahead of his time and could play as a modern wing back Mariner think the best of all the strikers you have ever seen and them some Gates - I see similarities with Chappers in where he played and the way he played Brazil - purely for finishing ability Viljeon - for range of passing Muhren - just because Thijssen - a bit like Morsy and Mass combined and some
and oh boy would I love to see Big Al tackle some of the modern players, although he fairness he'd probably get red carded pretty early on
Ah yes. The collective intake of breath from what seemed like the whole ground if an opposition player had the temerity to foul Hunter ...... everyone knew what was coming, it was just a matter of time.
The game has evolved. Anything that inspires passion will evolve over time. Methods have adapted to meet the demands of an ever-evolving sport and modern players reflect those adaptations. Without the football from earlier decades, we wouldn't have the beautiful game that we enjoy today.
I grew up playing in the 80s and 90s and, admittedly, I marvel at what modern players are capable of, but at the same time, I know that I would have benefited from the modern environments that the current generation has access to.
You can't compare eras. You have to appreciate them for what they are/were.
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 12:34 - Nov 17 with 2675 views
I’d still take Mariner and Brazil up front over Delap and Sammy even now...they were and still are the best strike pairing to ever play for us in my lifetime.
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 12:34 - Nov 17 with 2675 views
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 11:59 - Nov 17 by Keno
Past players who I think could play in the modern game
Beattie, especially given the improvement in medical care Burley was a full back ahead of his time and could play as a modern wing back Mariner think the best of all the strikers you have ever seen and them some Gates - I see similarities with Chappers in where he played and the way he played Brazil - purely for finishing ability Viljeon - for range of passing Muhren - just because Thijssen - a bit like Morsy and Mass combined and some
and oh boy would I love to see Big Al tackle some of the modern players, although he fairness he'd probably get red carded pretty early on
Kieron Dyer played with Russell Osman in a charity game and said that Osman would be on Pep's list of potential recruits given how comfortable he was on the ball.
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 12:46 - Nov 17 with 2652 views
They were at the top of the tree against their peers and we were stacked with internationals. I’ve no doubt given the same regime modern players have that they would rise to the top (or very near) now. As others have said, they were quick and we had some lovely technicians. And they were getting battered every match. By today’s standards there would have been many sending offs each match.
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 12:34 - Nov 17 by PhilTWTD
Kieron Dyer played with Russell Osman in a charity game and said that Osman would be on Pep's list of potential recruits given how comfortable he was on the ball.
Osman was totally two footed. Very rare. Great athlete, good on the ground and in the air. Wasn’t to be messed with either unless you fancied a Monday trip to the dentist.
Mills would have been fine too. Two footed, equally good either side and could play in midfield. Top player. In fact the only players I can think of that would struggle in the modern game from that era are Cooper (too small) and Osborne, who is the first to admit he struggled a bit in that Ipswich side. Two others that’d be good in the modern game - the late T Whymark and D Johnson Mk1.
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 13:23 - Nov 17 with 2569 views
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 06:36 - Nov 17 by LA_Tractor_Boy
I watched SBRs teams and I think it's impossible to compare eras.
Would our current first 11 beat SBRs first 11? The easy answer is 'yes' because our current players have better athleticism. But then consider the following and you might come up with a different answer.
1. SBR could only name one substitute. So KMc's approach of empty the tank and I'll replace you after 65 mins wasn't possible. 2. What our players could do with the ball on 1970/1980s pitches was incredible. I doubt our current team would be able to cope with those pitches. 3. It's easy to be brave on the ball now, as you're not likely to be hacked down. Tackles that are a red card for dangerous play weren't even a yellow back in the day.
One thing that I do think gives our current team the edge, is our defenders ability to pass the ball. Back in the day there was usually the option to pass it back to the keeper who could pick it up. Now defenders need the ability to look for other options.
[Post edited 17 Nov 2024 6:37]
Rather than compare teams you have to look at the era. For Sir Bobby's team we were the second best team in the country for a significant spell. To suggest the current team would beat them is ridiculous.
Who (in their prime) would you leave out of the 1981 team to replace with a current player? Personally can't think of one.
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 13:34 - Nov 17 with 2550 views
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 13:23 - Nov 17 by Blue_In_Boston
Rather than compare teams you have to look at the era. For Sir Bobby's team we were the second best team in the country for a significant spell. To suggest the current team would beat them is ridiculous.
Who (in their prime) would you leave out of the 1981 team to replace with a current player? Personally can't think of one.
It's an interesting point, but I wouldn't call it ridiculous that the current team would beat the 1981 team.
Player for player I think you're probably right, but as a collective I think the current team's greater athleticism would see them win.
Just my opinion, but my other points still stand
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Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 13:41 - Nov 17 with 2524 views
Alan Brazil and football 1980s on 08:38 - Nov 17 by MK1
Players are conditioned much better these days and the surfaces they play on cannot be compared. Brazil, Mariner, Butcher, Mills, Gates, Wark, Burley and many others from those days could walk straight into our current side. Don't be fooled by the speed of the game or the haircuts, these guys could play and play bl00dy well. Thijssen for instance, was better than Rice and he sold for £105M. It's their lifestyles off the pitch that would have had to change drastically. Having a fag at half time for instance, probably not allowed now. Having a session on a friday night before a 3pm saturday kick off would be a no no. These players and others like Best, Charlton, Law, Hoddle, Clemance, Keegan, Dalglish etc. were fantastic footballers and would be worth £100's of millions in todays market.
You mention Mills, and his name illustrates something that is missing from the modern game. I challenge anybody to find a modern footballer who carries himself as well as, has such good posture as the mighty Mick Mills.
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