| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic 18:24 - Nov 15 with 3200 views | Crawfordsboot |
Taunting.
As a male in my early seventies I have in my lifetime seen a huge change in what is deemed by society to be unacceptable behaviour. This is particularly true of the last decade.
I guess that I am no different to many of my generation in that our views and sensibilities have also changed and evolved over the decades. I have to admit that I would not be comfortable having “jokes” I might have repeated in my younger days bounced back at me today. Attitudes in society have changed hugely and so have mine.
Whilst I can see that it is necessary to call out society’s past failings is it really helpful to crucify individuals today for something from ten or twenty year back when society was very different and those individuals might have now moved on in the same way that society generally has moved on?
I’m all for strengthening and enforcing current legislation in these areas but just not sure about the merits of pursuing historic cases from say ten (?). or more year back.
I’d be interested to know what others think. |  | | |  |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 18:33 - Nov 15 with 2058 views | Herbivore |
I'm 40 and I don't remember racism being okay 10 or even 20 years ago. |  |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 18:41 - Nov 15 with 2030 views | Darth_Koont |
I think as long as people accept what was wrong and learn from it then we should move on.
Not least because there’s still “acceptable” misogyny, anti-BAME, islamophobia, transphobia etc. today and that should be the focus. That’s where the real problems lie. |  |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 18:47 - Nov 15 with 2001 views | factual_blue |
Surely taunting anybody about anything is always wrong?
What has changed as much as anything is that the victims of racial/homophobic/sexist taunting now make it clear that it isn't, and never was, acceptable.
As we only have a statute of limitations in the UK for summary offences, I don't see why there should be one for offences of discriminatory/inflammatory language or behaviour.
Whether old comments should be brought into the public arena from social media isn't about a statute of limitations, it's about people failing to realise comments they make remain in the public domain, and they might be better not making them in the first place. And that would be a good thing. |  |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 18:58 - Nov 15 with 1922 views | BlueStreak |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 18:47 - Nov 15 by factual_blue |
Surely taunting anybody about anything is always wrong?
What has changed as much as anything is that the victims of racial/homophobic/sexist taunting now make it clear that it isn't, and never was, acceptable.
As we only have a statute of limitations in the UK for summary offences, I don't see why there should be one for offences of discriminatory/inflammatory language or behaviour.
Whether old comments should be brought into the public arena from social media isn't about a statute of limitations, it's about people failing to realise comments they make remain in the public domain, and they might be better not making them in the first place. And that would be a good thing. |
That is with the massive benefit of hindsight though and a lot of years lived on the planet and learning from mistakes / other peoples (wrong actions) though, right?
Hand on heart, I have probably made comments in my much younger years that I would be embarrassed about now and would do anything to take them back, but can't. But I have educated myself better on certain topics though seeing the world as it is and by coming (hopefully) a much better person from it and therefore a better example to others in my life.
I think there has to be a cut off at some point though, when social media has been around a few more years we potentially be in a position where a 60 year old is potentially sacked because of comments he made as a uneducated, immature 18 year old, 40 years previously. The comments could be completely wrong, offensive and extremely hurtful but what happens in that situation? You overlook x amount of years of development as a person to ensure there is no backlash from the public / other employees? I don't know the answer, nor trying to justify anything, just putting another view on it I guess. |  | | |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:03 - Nov 15 with 1901 views | lowhouseblue |
i think tennyson has something here:
I hold it truth, with him who sings
To one clear harp in divers tones,
That men may rise on stepping-stones
Of their dead selves to higher things. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:04 - Nov 15 with 1903 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 18:47 - Nov 15 by factual_blue |
Surely taunting anybody about anything is always wrong?
What has changed as much as anything is that the victims of racial/homophobic/sexist taunting now make it clear that it isn't, and never was, acceptable.
As we only have a statute of limitations in the UK for summary offences, I don't see why there should be one for offences of discriminatory/inflammatory language or behaviour.
Whether old comments should be brought into the public arena from social media isn't about a statute of limitations, it's about people failing to realise comments they make remain in the public domain, and they might be better not making them in the first place. And that would be a good thing. |
OK but can I ask in your youth were you ever in a group of lads where someone referred to p**fs when aids first appeared, or told an Irish joke, or referred to a woman in coarse terms. If so did you ever snigger along at one or more of those. Or did you fail to call it out at the time? I’m guilty. If you can plead not guilty to all the above then you are a better man than me. | | | |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:11 - Nov 15 with 1839 views | Vic |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:04 - Nov 15 by Crawfordsboot |
OK but can I ask in your youth were you ever in a group of lads where someone referred to p**fs when aids first appeared, or told an Irish joke, or referred to a woman in coarse terms. If so did you ever snigger along at one or more of those. Or did you fail to call it out at the time? I’m guilty. If you can plead not guilty to all the above then you are a better man than me. |
Adding to that is the fact that some word which are unacceptable nowadays were simply nicknames 40 yrs ago with absolutely no racist intent at all. I’m thinking of the fact that as a lad if we went for a Chinese meal we called it by another name. My kids are horrified by that but we meant nothing derogatory it. I would not use the expression today. |  |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:26 - Nov 15 with 1731 views | BlueBadger |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:11 - Nov 15 by Vic |
Adding to that is the fact that some word which are unacceptable nowadays were simply nicknames 40 yrs ago with absolutely no racist intent at all. I’m thinking of the fact that as a lad if we went for a Chinese meal we called it by another name. My kids are horrified by that but we meant nothing derogatory it. I would not use the expression today. |
I think the key point here is that you grow up and LEARN and don't do that sh*t anymore.
Which you've elaborated, here. |  |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:28 - Nov 15 with 1708 views | Keno |
Cant believe this hasn't got the most traditional of TWTD replies |  |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:32 - Nov 15 with 1693 views | BlueStreak |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:26 - Nov 15 by BlueBadger |
I think the key point here is that you grow up and LEARN and don't do that sh*t anymore.
Which you've elaborated, here. |
That is the key point, I couldn't agree more.
But going back to the OP, the learning part / world moving on from different expressions over a long period of time (and rightly so), what do we do about the vast time difference and therefore leaving yourself to disciplinary action / loss of reputation at work for example? The easy answer of course is to be perfect and have never uttered a word out of line in the first place, but people like that will be very much in the minority. | | | |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:33 - Nov 15 with 1679 views | Plums |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:28 - Nov 15 by Keno |
Cant believe this hasn't got the most traditional of TWTD replies |
I don’t think it’s a topic for cheese enquiries. |  |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:37 - Nov 15 with 1651 views | Herbivore |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:32 - Nov 15 by BlueStreak |
That is the key point, I couldn't agree more.
But going back to the OP, the learning part / world moving on from different expressions over a long period of time (and rightly so), what do we do about the vast time difference and therefore leaving yourself to disciplinary action / loss of reputation at work for example? The easy answer of course is to be perfect and have never uttered a word out of line in the first place, but people like that will be very much in the minority. |
Is anyone losing their job for something they said 40 years ago though? The stuff at YCCC that is in the news currently really wasn't very long ago at all. | |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:37 - Nov 15 with 1648 views | lowhouseblue |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:32 - Nov 15 by BlueStreak |
That is the key point, I couldn't agree more.
But going back to the OP, the learning part / world moving on from different expressions over a long period of time (and rightly so), what do we do about the vast time difference and therefore leaving yourself to disciplinary action / loss of reputation at work for example? The easy answer of course is to be perfect and have never uttered a word out of line in the first place, but people like that will be very much in the minority. |
and humans are to a great degree conformists - in the main we don't stray too far from the social mores of the day. stuff that was once acceptable no longer is. and we should all celebrate rehabilitation - otherwise how would any of us get past the bad things we have done. [Post edited 15 Nov 2021 19:38]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:40 - Nov 15 with 1629 views | BlueStreak |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:37 - Nov 15 by Herbivore |
Is anyone losing their job for something they said 40 years ago though? The stuff at YCCC that is in the news currently really wasn't very long ago at all. |
No of course not, but as we move on through the years social media would have been round longer and this situation may well apply, hence the initial comments / query about it. | | | |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:41 - Nov 15 with 1617 views | BlueStreak |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:37 - Nov 15 by lowhouseblue |
and humans are to a great degree conformists - in the main we don't stray too far from the social mores of the day. stuff that was once acceptable no longer is. and we should all celebrate rehabilitation - otherwise how would any of us get past the bad things we have done. [Post edited 15 Nov 2021 19:38]
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So do you put a statute of limitation in place? Think that is the question here. | | | |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:43 - Nov 15 with 1605 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I think there are two points here.
1 New rules and laws should not be used to legislate against when the rules were different. So, if people did something in good faith that was not against the law and then a law comes in that it is now illegal, to continue to do it falls foul of that law but you should not be prosecuted for what was done before the law was passed.
2 Some things have always been unacceptable and that people might have generally turned a blind eye to it historically is no excuse.
There are clearly instances that are coming to light that have been complained about and people have tried to sweep under the carpet. The individuals who were doing things they knew were wrong and were allowed to get away with doing so still deserve sanction. Those who enabled it by not taking action need greater sanction. The biggest change that needs to happen is that people need to be aware that they will be held accountable for their actions and sexist, racist and homophobic abuse is and always has been unacceptable. |  |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:47 - Nov 15 with 1581 views | lowhouseblue |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:41 - Nov 15 by BlueStreak |
So do you put a statute of limitation in place? Think that is the question here. |
well, it depends on what it was. if it was using phrases that most other people used at the time, or laughing at jokes that many other people laughed at, then it doesn't really need a statute of limitations. we should just all be wise enough to know that the world moves on and we all learn along way. people aren't the same person they were 20 years ago. it's what they do now that matters. in a way people who did much worse and much more extreme things in their past, but can then turn themselves around, reject their past, and reinvent themselves as something good, deserve a great deal of respect. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:49 - Nov 15 with 1574 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:41 - Nov 15 by BlueStreak |
So do you put a statute of limitation in place? Think that is the question here. |
No. However, if it can be clearly demonstrated that at the time of the supposed "offence", the act was perfectly acceptable then there is no case to answer.
I think the instances being brought to light are things that were complained about at the time (so the victims believed them to be unacceptable) but were not properly dealt with at the time. | |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:55 - Nov 15 with 1546 views | factual_blue |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:04 - Nov 15 by Crawfordsboot |
OK but can I ask in your youth were you ever in a group of lads where someone referred to p**fs when aids first appeared, or told an Irish joke, or referred to a woman in coarse terms. If so did you ever snigger along at one or more of those. Or did you fail to call it out at the time? I’m guilty. If you can plead not guilty to all the above then you are a better man than me. |
Of course I write with the benefit of hindsight. I should have started my post with 'What I've come to realise....' | |
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:56 - Nov 15 with 1536 views | ElderGrizzly |
Assume this is related to Michael Vaughan?
Even if not, the answer is admit it, apologise and hope you are forgiven. Not dig in and deny it happened. |  | | |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 20:00 - Nov 15 with 1496 views | BlueBadger |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:56 - Nov 15 by ElderGrizzly |
Assume this is related to Michael Vaughan?
Even if not, the answer is admit it, apologise and hope you are forgiven. Not dig in and deny it happened. |
And apologise PROPERLY and don't do it again and educate others.Not gonna lie, I've dropped b0llocks with a couple of 'minority' colleagues' over the years. The main reason I've not had a disciplinary over it is because I've sought out the people I've offended, apologised and asked 'what should I say/do/avoid doing or saying for the future' and then DONE IT as part of the apology. [Post edited 15 Nov 2021 20:01]
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| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 20:28 - Nov 15 with 1388 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:43 - Nov 15 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I think there are two points here.
1 New rules and laws should not be used to legislate against when the rules were different. So, if people did something in good faith that was not against the law and then a law comes in that it is now illegal, to continue to do it falls foul of that law but you should not be prosecuted for what was done before the law was passed.
2 Some things have always been unacceptable and that people might have generally turned a blind eye to it historically is no excuse.
There are clearly instances that are coming to light that have been complained about and people have tried to sweep under the carpet. The individuals who were doing things they knew were wrong and were allowed to get away with doing so still deserve sanction. Those who enabled it by not taking action need greater sanction. The biggest change that needs to happen is that people need to be aware that they will be held accountable for their actions and sexist, racist and homophobic abuse is and always has been unacceptable. |
You make some good points but homophobic abuse has not always been unacceptable. Witness Oscar Wilde - his abusers had the law on their side. I would argue that more recently society has accepted the abuse of Romany travellers. That situation is improving but still has some way to go. | | | |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 20:31 - Nov 15 with 1380 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:56 - Nov 15 by ElderGrizzly |
Assume this is related to Michael Vaughan?
Even if not, the answer is admit it, apologise and hope you are forgiven. Not dig in and deny it happened. |
Not especially relating to MV. I just started thinking about the issues and found it wasn’t easy to come up with an easy answer. | | | |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 20:45 - Nov 15 with 1297 views | Pendejo |
| Do we need a statute of limitations for historic sexist, racist or homophobic on 19:28 - Nov 15 by Keno |
Cant believe this hasn't got the most traditional of TWTD replies |
Cor blimey!
Never realised that "parking the car at Gatwick" was a euphemism for gay love! |  |
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