| I fecking despair on 12:37 - Dec 14 with 3007 views | clive_baker |
That's absolutely heartbreaking. How anyone can do that to a defenceless child I will never, ever know. |  |
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| I fecking despair on 12:38 - Dec 14 with 2979 views | NorthLondonBlue2 |
It is utterly appalling and deeply upsetting.
But please do not lose sight of the political context, which is the severe cuts to social and public services which makes it far harder for social services to identify children at risk.
It shows that Tory austerity carries an appalling, human cost.
Per the report:
"More generally, during a decade of squeezed budgets, children's services have increasingly concentrated efforts on clearly high-risk cases. Research shows between 2010 and 2020, spending on early intervention halved." |  | | |
| I fecking despair on 12:38 - Dec 14 with 2943 views | usm |
Horrendous - I cant work out what makes anyone do something like that - and more than one person as well by the sound of it - either directly involved or standing by and not doing anything/enough. |  |
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| I fecking despair on 12:58 - Dec 14 with 2801 views | Cotty |
I just can't even read this stuff. It's heart breaking. |  | | |
| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:05 - Dec 14 with 2705 views | Bloots |
| I fecking despair on 12:58 - Dec 14 by Cotty |
I just can't even read this stuff. It's heart breaking. |
....because I feel like I'm sweeping it under the carpet, trying to deny these things are happening in the world.
I can't deal with them at all. |  |
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| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:10 - Dec 14 with 2676 views | Cotty |
| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:05 - Dec 14 by Bloots |
....because I feel like I'm sweeping it under the carpet, trying to deny these things are happening in the world.
I can't deal with them at all. |
Agreed. | | | |
| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:16 - Dec 14 with 2643 views | jeera |
| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:05 - Dec 14 by Bloots |
....because I feel like I'm sweeping it under the carpet, trying to deny these things are happening in the world.
I can't deal with them at all. |
I was saying the same to someone last week when the subject came up.
I said it felt cowardly to think a child had been forced to endure such suffering in real time and I could barely face up to even reading about it.
It's feeling helpless though isn't it? You wish you could have done something; helped in some way, ridiculous though it sounds.
Not to mention then struggling with the flood of questions that then comes with it all.
Not a lot makes sense sometimes, and then you see this and realise even less makes sense than you previously thought. |  |
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| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:16 - Dec 14 with 2639 views | fab_lover |
| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:10 - Dec 14 by Cotty |
Agreed. |
No, I don't think any decent human being can handle information like that. I certainly can't.
The key things to remember are that:
- the vast majority of people are overall good people; it's just that good actions and good people don't make the news, bad people and bad actions do;
- abominations like this have been going on for ever, it's just now we know about them. The world is not, whatever one thinks, more inherently dangerous now than it used to be (murder rates per capita in the UK were highest I think in the 1870s). |  | | |
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| I fecking despair on 13:19 - Dec 14 with 2621 views | Illinoisblue |
Ugh. The immediate response is to want to put a bullet in the head of each of them. But beyond that, there’s a need to know more. What happens in the course of someone’s life to make them okay with battering and killing a child? How do you go, say, from being normal at age 17 or whatever to being a child killer a few years later? |  |
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| I fecking despair on 13:26 - Dec 14 with 2533 views | footers |
| I fecking despair on 13:19 - Dec 14 by Illinoisblue |
Ugh. The immediate response is to want to put a bullet in the head of each of them. But beyond that, there’s a need to know more. What happens in the course of someone’s life to make them okay with battering and killing a child? How do you go, say, from being normal at age 17 or whatever to being a child killer a few years later? |
We have a society and economy that creates people with no purpose and no meaning. Some see no value in life because they haven't been afforded any opportunity, a way out, a helping hand and just been left by the wayside.
It's heartbreaking and totally pointless.
We need to strive more to redistribute opportunity, provide support and guidance, and help those who have come from problematic backgrounds to overcome their trauma and not repeat the cycle.
Sadly, this government will not be the ones to put this into motion. |  |
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| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:26 - Dec 14 with 2531 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:16 - Dec 14 by jeera |
I was saying the same to someone last week when the subject came up.
I said it felt cowardly to think a child had been forced to endure such suffering in real time and I could barely face up to even reading about it.
It's feeling helpless though isn't it? You wish you could have done something; helped in some way, ridiculous though it sounds.
Not to mention then struggling with the flood of questions that then comes with it all.
Not a lot makes sense sometimes, and then you see this and realise even less makes sense than you previously thought. |
I couldn’t bring myself to watch those videos of Arthur that the news companies released and switched over when they’d go to show them. It’s just too sad for me to want to see it. Those poor poor kids. They’re kids ffs. Who in their right mind sees a child and has any urge to lay a finger on them. I can’t understand that mindset. It’s just awful |  |
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| I fecking despair on 13:58 - Dec 14 with 2401 views | Illinoisblue |
| I fecking despair on 13:26 - Dec 14 by footers |
We have a society and economy that creates people with no purpose and no meaning. Some see no value in life because they haven't been afforded any opportunity, a way out, a helping hand and just been left by the wayside.
It's heartbreaking and totally pointless.
We need to strive more to redistribute opportunity, provide support and guidance, and help those who have come from problematic backgrounds to overcome their trauma and not repeat the cycle.
Sadly, this government will not be the ones to put this into motion. |
That undoubtedly plays into it. The “me first” thinking, whether it be Brexit blindness or ignoring covid rules has a lot to answer for.
But these two women who killed their kid. And the “parents” of that boy Arthur… is it some outrageously extreme love blindness that caused them to do what they did? I just don’t understand how you can hurt a kid. Few slaps to cause bruising. Then maybe break some bones. How can an adult have no conscience, no sense of wrongdoing? | |
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| I fecking despair on 14:06 - Dec 14 with 2360 views | clive_baker |
| I fecking despair on 13:19 - Dec 14 by Illinoisblue |
Ugh. The immediate response is to want to put a bullet in the head of each of them. But beyond that, there’s a need to know more. What happens in the course of someone’s life to make them okay with battering and killing a child? How do you go, say, from being normal at age 17 or whatever to being a child killer a few years later? |
It's just utterly heartbreaking. Not to absolve anyone of blame of course, but I saw a report that the childs mother, who has been found guilty of being complicit, has an IQ of only 70. Perhaps herself in some way a victim to her psycho partner. There's often a lot more than meets the eye. | |
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| I fecking despair on 15:01 - Dec 14 with 2227 views | Swansea_Blue |
It's very hard to be against the death penalty at times like this. Poor little kid. |  |
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| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 15:08 - Dec 14 with 2206 views | J2BLUE |
| Agreed, and then I feel guilty..... on 13:05 - Dec 14 by Bloots |
....because I feel like I'm sweeping it under the carpet, trying to deny these things are happening in the world.
I can't deal with them at all. |
Agree. Cases like this always weaken my opposition to the death penalty for a few minutes.
Like you, I just block it out after reading. |  |
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| I fecking despair on 15:08 - Dec 14 with 2204 views | Illinoisblue |
| I fecking despair on 14:06 - Dec 14 by clive_baker |
It's just utterly heartbreaking. Not to absolve anyone of blame of course, but I saw a report that the childs mother, who has been found guilty of being complicit, has an IQ of only 70. Perhaps herself in some way a victim to her psycho partner. There's often a lot more than meets the eye. |
Indeed. And maybe it will come in the weeks and months to come but beyond the sensational headlines it would be genuinely interesting to know how the killers got to this point, what their lives were like, what trauma they’ve been through. | |
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| I fecking despair on 16:06 - Dec 14 with 2066 views | Kropotkin123 |
| I fecking despair on 13:19 - Dec 14 by Illinoisblue |
Ugh. The immediate response is to want to put a bullet in the head of each of them. But beyond that, there’s a need to know more. What happens in the course of someone’s life to make them okay with battering and killing a child? How do you go, say, from being normal at age 17 or whatever to being a child killer a few years later? |
Seems like the mother was subject to domestic abuse and isolated from those that could potentially help. Not sure about both of them from reading the article. |  |
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| I fecking despair on 16:34 - Dec 14 with 1991 views | Cafe_Newman |
| I fecking despair on 13:19 - Dec 14 by Illinoisblue |
Ugh. The immediate response is to want to put a bullet in the head of each of them. But beyond that, there’s a need to know more. What happens in the course of someone’s life to make them okay with battering and killing a child? How do you go, say, from being normal at age 17 or whatever to being a child killer a few years later? |
I have a fair bit of experience in this area both through personal relationships and some of the work that I've done in the past.
People very rarely go "from being normal at age 17 or whatever to being a child killer a few years later" - when they do, it very often involves prescription drugs. Take a look into the histories of mass shooters in the US over the last 25 years for evidence of this.
In fact most people who act in this way have NOT had normal lives but have experienced childhood trauma in their earliest years themselves, and sometimes so early in their lives that they have no real recollection of the trauma they have suffered.
Receiving love and healthy human contact and good parenting in the first six to seven years of life is the programming a person gets for a healthy set of emotions and behaviours for their entire life. [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 16:50]
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| I fecking despair on 16:44 - Dec 14 with 1927 views | DanTheMan |
Absolutely awful and heartbreaking.
One thing I'd like to highlight from the article:
"the troubled children's services department involved in Star's case has struggled with high demand, high staff turnover and high caseloads for some social workers."
I wonder how often this is the case with public services. In a different area my partner has seen the same thing with mental health services. Paid utter peanuts to deal with some horrific stuff and then people wonder why bad stuff happens. Minimum wage to look after people who have serious mental health issues. Physically and mentally abused for days on end.
They're usually under worked because there isn't enough staff and the reason people are leaving is because the pay is ridiculous for the job they do. They'd literally be better off at McDonalds or Tesco. |  |
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| I fecking despair on 16:45 - Dec 14 with 1930 views | IpswichKnight |
Wife and I are very nearly at the end of the process to become adoptive parents which means we have started to get some of the profiles of the kids available for adoption it is at times a very very hard read. | | | |
| I fecking despair on 17:02 - Dec 14 with 1875 views | clive_baker |
| I fecking despair on 16:45 - Dec 14 by IpswichKnight |
Wife and I are very nearly at the end of the process to become adoptive parents which means we have started to get some of the profiles of the kids available for adoption it is at times a very very hard read. |
Congratulations IpswichKnight and all the best with it. Great thing to do. | |
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| I fecking despair on 17:46 - Dec 14 with 1794 views | EdwardStone |
| I fecking despair on 16:44 - Dec 14 by DanTheMan |
Absolutely awful and heartbreaking.
One thing I'd like to highlight from the article:
"the troubled children's services department involved in Star's case has struggled with high demand, high staff turnover and high caseloads for some social workers."
I wonder how often this is the case with public services. In a different area my partner has seen the same thing with mental health services. Paid utter peanuts to deal with some horrific stuff and then people wonder why bad stuff happens. Minimum wage to look after people who have serious mental health issues. Physically and mentally abused for days on end.
They're usually under worked because there isn't enough staff and the reason people are leaving is because the pay is ridiculous for the job they do. They'd literally be better off at McDonalds or Tesco. |
For the past 2 decades we have been living under a Government that has taken pride in slashing public spending
And for these actions, there are consequences
This tragedy was utterly avoidable if the Social Services had been allowed the time and staff to identify and manage the situation
There is blame to be apportioned here....please reflect on that next time you place your mark on a ballot paper |  | | |
| I fecking despair on 17:53 - Dec 14 with 1771 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| I fecking despair on 16:45 - Dec 14 by IpswichKnight |
Wife and I are very nearly at the end of the process to become adoptive parents which means we have started to get some of the profiles of the kids available for adoption it is at times a very very hard read. |
Thank you for being willing to give love and care to children who need it so much. | | | |
| I fecking despair on 18:21 - Dec 14 with 1715 views | Ryorry |
| I fecking despair on 17:46 - Dec 14 by EdwardStone |
For the past 2 decades we have been living under a Government that has taken pride in slashing public spending
And for these actions, there are consequences
This tragedy was utterly avoidable if the Social Services had been allowed the time and staff to identify and manage the situation
There is blame to be apportioned here....please reflect on that next time you place your mark on a ballot paper |
That's no doubt true re austerity measures, but you can't ever rule out the possibility of individual error until there's been a thorough investigation (which I gather is now under way).
Utterly sickening.
R.I.P Star Hobson |  |
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| I fecking despair on 18:50 - Dec 14 with 1460 views | BlueBadger |
| I fecking despair on 18:21 - Dec 14 by Ryorry |
That's no doubt true re austerity measures, but you can't ever rule out the possibility of individual error until there's been a thorough investigation (which I gather is now under way).
Utterly sickening.
R.I.P Star Hobson |
Thing is though, systemic failures, such as the ones highlighted here, increase the chances of tragic individual errors occurring. |  |
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