| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? 15:44 - Jun 2 with 2552 views | hype313 |
I ask, in regards of the Fulham links to McKenna, as to where we are squad wise going into the PL.
Last time we didn't have any PL experience bar Philips and Johnson, and this time I'd argue only DOS, Jaden, Leif and Clarke are PL ready.
We needed 10-12 signings last time and it looks like another 10+ are needed this time, and whilst we had a squad able to tackle the championship, we look weak, despite investment, to hit the ground running going into this season.
Obviously the ground is far more advanced and we are where we need to be on that front, I just wonder if our recruitment needs are so vast, that McKenna might view jobs like Fulham more attractive as they only need minor surgery, where we need major surgery. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 15:47 - Jun 2 with 2028 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
We are certainly in a better place. Last time off the bench we had Al Hamadi, Luongo and Harness for parts of the season no disrespect to those guys but we do need as you say, a serious amount of recruitment to the starting 11 to be competitive.
I understand if people think KM wont go, but people who I have seen saying "Why would he want to go to Fulham" are missing some of the points you lay out here. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 15:51 - Jun 2 with 2023 views | burnbudgiesburn |
I think depth of squad we are in a much better place.
Harness, Al Hamadi, Edmundson & Luongo all played early PL games last time.
It is pretty much a given these days you can't have premier league ready squad built in the championship so there will always be large turnover of squads for newly promoted teams. |  | | |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 15:52 - Jun 2 with 1997 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 15:51 - Jun 2 by burnbudgiesburn |
I think depth of squad we are in a much better place.
Harness, Al Hamadi, Edmundson & Luongo all played early PL games last time.
It is pretty much a given these days you can't have premier league ready squad built in the championship so there will always be large turnover of squads for newly promoted teams. |
I think Luongo should have got more game time.
Maybe they were worried that his body would stand up to the demands of the PL. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:03 - Jun 2 with 1923 views | NthQldITFC |
The baseline has shifted halfway through your argument though; the 'needed' has changed. The four players you mention probably make us at least four players better off as a PL squad than last time, plus Matusiwa, makes I would say five. So we probably actually needed (on the same baseline) something like 13-15 last time and maybe 8-10 this time. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:08 - Jun 2 with 1890 views | IndependentlyBlue |
Yes |  |
| Better to stay silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:08 - Jun 2 with 1890 views | hype313 |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:03 - Jun 2 by NthQldITFC |
The baseline has shifted halfway through your argument though; the 'needed' has changed. The four players you mention probably make us at least four players better off as a PL squad than last time, plus Matusiwa, makes I would say five. So we probably actually needed (on the same baseline) something like 13-15 last time and maybe 8-10 this time. |
I was going to add Matusiwa, but we don't know if he's PL standard yet (FWIW, I think he could do a job) | |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:08 - Jun 2 with 1888 views | franz_tyson |
How can we say anything until we've signed a new squad?
We could only have 3 or 4 Championship regulars starting games next season.
All we can maybe say is that this Championship side might provide better squad players than the 24/25 side. | | | |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:12 - Jun 2 with 1860 views | BseaBlue |
In terms of the squad 'Better'...possibly. 'Much better' No.
I make you right that the 10-12 signings probably proves that but the only thing I would say is that we have KM's experience of last time, as well as a different scouting system, brand new training ground and 100 jobs less to do at the Stadium.
Everything feels like we are more prepared but I still feel that Fulham's squad is well ahead of us at present and thus, an attractive option for him as you state.
I do get the argument that our ceiling is potentially much higher than theirs but football is about the here and now. |  | | |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:13 - Jun 2 with 1851 views | hype313 |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:08 - Jun 2 by franz_tyson |
How can we say anything until we've signed a new squad?
We could only have 3 or 4 Championship regulars starting games next season.
All we can maybe say is that this Championship side might provide better squad players than the 24/25 side. |
My argument is you can see why McKenna might view Fulham more favorably than us, as like I stated, they only need minor surgery, where we need major, or as you say, a whole new squad. | |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:23 - Jun 2 with 1783 views | franz_tyson |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:13 - Jun 2 by hype313 |
My argument is you can see why McKenna might view Fulham more favorably than us, as like I stated, they only need minor surgery, where we need major, or as you say, a whole new squad. |
I truly wouldn't blame Kieran for taking the Fulham job.
If was he offered it and decided to stay ....... then fantastic, and hopefully he'd have factored in that this could be a mid to long term building job, with perhaps another relegation and more bumps in the road.
I, however, wouldn't want him to stay if it was just contractual obligations keeping him here. If he feels there's a better career move for him elsewhere.... its better he moves on with our best wishes. | | | |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:33 - Jun 2 with 1737 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:23 - Jun 2 by franz_tyson |
I truly wouldn't blame Kieran for taking the Fulham job.
If was he offered it and decided to stay ....... then fantastic, and hopefully he'd have factored in that this could be a mid to long term building job, with perhaps another relegation and more bumps in the road.
I, however, wouldn't want him to stay if it was just contractual obligations keeping him here. If he feels there's a better career move for him elsewhere.... its better he moves on with our best wishes. |
McKenna’s next job is to keep us up next season and to build on that in the following seasons.
Sky breaking news Marco Silva is moving on. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:51 - Jun 2 with 1672 views | Blue_In_Boston |
I think it was Simon Jordan talking about Arsenals transfer business last summer, but the same could apply to our position in coming up to the Premier for the second time...
"The ceiling hasn't necessarily been raised but the floor has."
We have a better squad this time around, so when introducing bench options it doesn't weaken the eleven on the pitch. Has our best starting eleven improved, maybe slightly, but not as much as it should have in my eyes considering the money spent. | | | |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:51 - Jun 2 with 1668 views | SitfcB |
Yes, on and off the pitch. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 17:23 - Jun 2 with 1582 views | Illinoisblue |
Slightly rather than much. Ground and infrastructure obviously better. No 100 projects and a coffee cup. But we’ll live and die by our recruitment. Hopefully we’ll have learnt our lessons from last time and spend more wisely. Feels like we need very important players right through the spine of the side. Big big summer ahead. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 18:12 - Jun 2 with 1471 views | Rimsy |
The club as a whole certainly is. Squad not so sure, defence I would say is in a better place but we'll need plenty of reinforcements to compete. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 18:18 - Jun 2 with 1442 views | Swansea_Blue |
Yes and no. Depends how you spin it (and you've pretty much showed the two ways it can be spun):
Yes - The squad is undoubtedly better
No - I'm not convinced it's better enough to be meaningful and I agree with your third paragraph - we still have a major overhaul needed (imo, but maybe KM thinks otherwise).
We know the players we have who were with us in the PL weren't good enough. Maybe they can be support/fringe players this time and be carried by better players around them, but if we rely on this lot as the core of the squad I'd expect us to come straight back down again. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 18:22 - Jun 2 with 1426 views | brogansnose |
Yes, we are in a better place this time around but, concerning on the pitch matters, it's a question of degree and after witnessing all the games when we were promoted last time it really does bring home the gulf that needs to be bridged. We've all been saying this for ages but recruitment, and possibly, who takes over from McK, if he leaves, is critical.
It's a bit early to say how things will pan out. |  | | |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 18:23 - Jun 2 with 1411 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
We have a squad full of Premier League experience that we didn't have last time. However, that experience wasn't a positive one and the squad we had performed poorly at the back end of the season. On top of that, we no longer have our 2 best players (Delap and Hutchinson). However, those players we do have now have a season playing together in matches where we have frequently dominated the opposition.
Ultimately we need better recruitment than last time around but we are at a better starting point than we were last time around.
Walton and Palmer are probably similar to what we had. If we sign a new keeper, we need it to work out better than Muric did.
Davis, O'Shea, Greaves are better than they were. Johnson and Furlong are probably about the same as what we had. Kipre is an improvement on Woolfenden/Burgess.
Matusiwa and Taylor are better than Morsy and Taylor were. Can we get far better than Phillips, Enciso and Cajuste offered?
Are Clarke and Philogene at the level that Clarke and Hutchinson were? And our other options in the attacking areas are probably similar too. So we need to at least upgrade with a player along the lines of Delap.
Then the challenge is getting enough in to lift us from being where we were last time to staying up! It sounds easy on paper, doesn't it? |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 18:25 - Jun 2 with 1411 views | Wickets |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 15:52 - Jun 2 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I think Luongo should have got more game time.
Maybe they were worried that his body would stand up to the demands of the PL. |
I thought Mass came up very short in first match against Lpool had a decent 20 minutes minutes then looked knackered, I remember being surprised he came out for the second half and was soon found wanting for Lpool first goal . I felt very sorry for Mass as for me he was clearly out of his depth . Remember he has said he was considering retirement when Keiran came for him . Don't think he was ever a Premier player as much as we all loved him . I just hope we can correct the mistakes made last time particularly the midfield. |  | | |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 18:32 - Jun 2 with 1382 views | Churchman |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 16:12 - Jun 2 by BseaBlue |
In terms of the squad 'Better'...possibly. 'Much better' No.
I make you right that the 10-12 signings probably proves that but the only thing I would say is that we have KM's experience of last time, as well as a different scouting system, brand new training ground and 100 jobs less to do at the Stadium.
Everything feels like we are more prepared but I still feel that Fulham's squad is well ahead of us at present and thus, an attractive option for him as you state.
I do get the argument that our ceiling is potentially much higher than theirs but football is about the here and now. |
McKenna said after the QPR game that we were in ‘a much better position’. Do you think he lied or was plain deluded? It’s one or the other.
I happen to think we are stronger in just about every way. The team was just coming together at the end of last season and was at times playing at a standard significantly higher than the 23/24 team. I don’t think the basic structure of the team should be ripped up as it was last time.
Central midfield and goalscoring (CF) need improving and somebody on the right better than McAteer to compete. Some squad additions for defence and a prospect or two and I reckon 7/8, the best we can afford, should give us a chance.
The big question is whether McKenna stays. I think if Fulham knock on the door he’ll be off like a shot. I would be in his shoes. He’s been here a long time and change is never a bad thing.
Good club, established Premier set up, great facilities at Cobham and basically, a step up. Added bonus - the supporters will back him 100%. They appreciate good football too. |  | | |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 20:30 - Jun 2 with 1236 views | NIblue |
There’s no doubt in my mind we’re in a better position than we were 2 years ago, both in current squad & transfer budget going forward.
The budget is based on a percentage of the previous 2 season’s income. The last time we went up, the 2 years before were a year in league 1 & a non parachute payment championship season.
We still have to spend it well, and even if we do it’ll still be a massive achievement to stay up, but our chances are definitely better this time round [Post edited 2 Jun 20:31]
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 20:32 - Jun 2 with 1221 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Many people have already given some good detail on why we are in a better place by some way.
Focusing on the squad rather than the infrastructure (as everyone appears to agree how much that had moved on), you only need to look at how the extended/fringes of the squad compare.
Most of the players who were considered starters during this season are a country mile ahead of most of the players we had on the bench, or didn’t make the matchday, when we last in the PL. During this transfer window we will bring in 9-12 new players, with the aim of those being better than what we have. So at least half of this season’s starters will become bench / back up players (I think ~6), and the starting 11 should be ahead of where we were 2 years ago (obviously recruitment dependent, but we have to assume this is a step up given we agree the infrastructure/back office is better).
Last time we suffered very badly from injuries (top 2/3 for much of the season in days lost through injury), and didn’t have the depth to mitigate that. This is likely to be far less of a problem next season.
Everything points to us being in a much better place by the end of the transfer window, because we’re starting from a stronger baseline. | | | |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 20:42 - Jun 2 with 1164 views | jayessess |
I'm skeptical of the received wisdom that it's better to be a yo-yo club that to get a "fresh promotion". It hasn't worked out that way historically (far more of the latter stay up than the former).
Fresh promoted teams go up with less financial ballast - they have smaller wage bills and fewer expensive transfers still being amortised. We will likely spend less in fees this Summer than Hull and Coventry.
Caveat to all that: When we came up we were in a peculiarly difficult position. We had a team built in League One, it was built as a collective and we basically had to immediately dismantle it, then replace it in one Summer with a totally inadequate recruitment structure. I assume we've got higher quality individuals and I assume our recruitment setup is more developed now. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 20:54 - Jun 2 with 1110 views | vapour_trail |
Not much.
This team, as it is, struggles to get above the meagre points tally we managed last time out, so that puts us in the Burnley / Wolves region.
Need almost a whole new starting team. |  |
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| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 20:54 - Jun 2 with 1111 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Are we in a much better position this time than last time in PL? on 18:22 - Jun 2 by brogansnose |
Yes, we are in a better place this time around but, concerning on the pitch matters, it's a question of degree and after witnessing all the games when we were promoted last time it really does bring home the gulf that needs to be bridged. We've all been saying this for ages but recruitment, and possibly, who takes over from McK, if he leaves, is critical.
It's a bit early to say how things will pan out. |
It’s a huge gulf. Our best players this season weren’t up to it in 2015/16. So either they’ve kicked on and can step up again, or we’re going to be doing lots of shopping. O’Shea is the only one left from the last PL season who people thought was half decent. I don’t want to be negative, but that seems to be the reality.
Our game is also based on individuals winning their duals rather than well-oiled team play punching above our collective weight, so that’s another worry for me. Clarke and Philogene may be stand outs in the Championship but they’re not going to be individually doing the business in the PL. They’re very average at that level. | |
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