| The Labour party.... 08:11 - Sep 11 with 37745 views | itfcjoe |
....I made this mkistake of falling down the Labour rabbit hole on Social Media, it is like rubber necking at an accident site. Absolute carnage on there.
So much in-fighting and disagreements and re-writing of history.
Clair achieved nothing - Sure Start was Tessa Jowell, Minimum Wage was Gordon Brown, etc..............but of course everything bad was solely down to Blair.
Any MP who speaks out about Corbyn or anti-semitism they are trying to get deselected - including someone who won Canterbury for first time (by 186 votes) in forever - although this was all down to Momentum's campaigning and not the candidate at all of course.
Chuka has said that the likes of McDonnell need to 'call off the dogs', you know that common saying.....apparently it means he has called members out as actual dogs. You couldn't make it up.
It would be funny if it wasn't so serious, how do they expect to win an election? All they talk about is how many members they now have as though that is what will win it for them.
I don't understand why being centrist has become such a bad thing, surely most people are or am I just wrong? The nutters I see on both sides of the divide can't be representative of normal people surely? Why don't people want what was New Labour, don't they realise compromises had to be made by likes of Blair and Brown to push through all the reform they did for the poorest people in the country?
It's all very student politics out there, and if there was a GE called now, the Tory party would increase their majority. |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 10:14 - Sep 11 with 2748 views | No9 |
It's politics Joe, are you overlooking the issues facing the governing of the country which doesn't compare with an opposition party ia a mess. |  | | |
| The Labour party.... on 10:19 - Sep 11 with 2745 views | Gromheort |
"Minimum Wage was Gordon Brown"
People tend to forget that big business were actually in favour of the minimum wage (perhaps because there is a positive relationship between wage and firm size). The problem is that New Labour enabled an innate conservatism to determine its level. That even allowed Cameron to come in and look radical with his 'living wage' vocab reinvention. |  | | |
| The Labour party.... on 10:43 - Sep 11 with 2695 views | monytowbray |
| The Labour party.... on 09:30 - Sep 11 by GlasgowBlue |
The polling org you quote, Survation, were the only one who called the election right.
However, you seem to have climaxed somewhat prematurely by claiming this was the latest poll. It isn't. In fact it isn't even the latest Survation poll.
I will now spend the rest of the day chasing you around the internet demanding you admit to being wrong. Oh. no I won't. Because I'm not some sort of weido desperate to score points on a football message board. |
"I will now spend the rest of the day chasing you around the internet demanding you admit to being wrong. Oh. no I won't. Because I'm not some sort of weido desperate to score points on a football message board."
Come on man, if I lack self awareness this is gold! |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 10:50 - Sep 11 with 2675 views | itfcjoe |
| The Labour party.... on 10:19 - Sep 11 by Gromheort |
"Minimum Wage was Gordon Brown"
People tend to forget that big business were actually in favour of the minimum wage (perhaps because there is a positive relationship between wage and firm size). The problem is that New Labour enabled an innate conservatism to determine its level. That even allowed Cameron to come in and look radical with his 'living wage' vocab reinvention. |
"People tend to forget that big business were actually in favour of the minimum wage"
Only by the time it actually came around, it took serious work from the likes of Prescott and Blair to get them to come round to this view.
And of course they couldn't go in at a higher level - these policies actually have to be approved and go from there. They broke the camels back and got the genie out of the bottle - surely it is a good thing that a future Conservative Govt increased it rather than trying to get rid of it?! | |
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| The Labour party.... on 11:07 - Sep 11 with 2641 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 10:50 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
"People tend to forget that big business were actually in favour of the minimum wage"
Only by the time it actually came around, it took serious work from the likes of Prescott and Blair to get them to come round to this view.
And of course they couldn't go in at a higher level - these policies actually have to be approved and go from there. They broke the camels back and got the genie out of the bottle - surely it is a good thing that a future Conservative Govt increased it rather than trying to get rid of it?! |
Nope. Its always been well understood. Empirical understanding of the relationship between wage and firm size goes way back. Certainly before Uncle Blair.
We can refer to the CBI and Tory links. That typically represented foolish agreement with a macroeconomic model that predicted unemployment by restoring all wage differentials.
The minimum wage, however, was a conservative introduction (i.e. note the little 'c'; it was a means to support the economic status quo). There's a reason such legislation is standard practice in economies, including those corrupted by market fundamentalism. [Post edited 11 Sep 2018 11:08]
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| The Labour party.... on 11:15 - Sep 11 with 2612 views | BrixtonBlue |
| The Labour party.... on 10:04 - Sep 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Ooh, hadn't seen that, well if you are bringing PM's into the public domain maybe everybody should have a look......nothing to hide here! Start from the bottom obviously....
I did ask. You ignored me which is against the T's and C's of this board. I am now messaging Phil.Â
I can categorically assure you I had nothing to do with your thread being removed. perhaps confirmation from him will put an end to this obsessive stalking.Â
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Can you stop messaging me .........it's a little obsessive!Â
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I have asked you to stop messaging me. Please stop stalking me.Â
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Bullsh1t nobody has internet coverage that bad.......maybe you were connected just long enough to contact admin, who knows! Obsessive coming from you is just plain hilarious!Â
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You are monitoring when and when I am not online? What a weirdo. You do realise that I will be online 99% of the time when my devices I am logged into have an internet signal, whether I am reading or not.Â
Please stop messaging me. I know you are an obsessive but I'm finding this a little creepy.Â
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There is no conspiracy in the fact you were shown as online at various times over the weekend for half an hour here and there without commenting........hiding something? I don't have your ego problem so don't imagine it was only me you were policing within your empire!Â
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And so the conspiracy theories continue into the week. Some of us have lives Banksy. I was away with my wife and family for the weekend. The last thing on my my was reading the rantings of a plastic anarchist who is prone to repeating atntisemitic tropes.Â
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You must just have been popping up on line and not reading stuff over the weekend then.....very odd! (Only just seen it my arris!)Â
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I assume you are talking about disappearing threads as I’ve just seen your thread on the subject.Â
If you believe in am responsible the you give me far more credit than I deserve. I don’t want threads removed. If people make antisemitic comments then I prefer them to be left up for people to see and judge. Although I don’t recall, on this occasion, you doing so.Â
What is rather odd is a middle aged man with a family engaging in conspiracy theories about disappearing threads on a football message board on a Saturday evening. Do you have nothing better to do? And what’s with the litigious poster comment?Â
With regards to the subject of a Jezza and antisemitism. The subject has now been settled by Sir Trevor Phillips, a man who knows more about racism than you or I. He stated this weekend that “[his] party is run by antisemites and racists”.Â
Enjoy your day xxÂ
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Busy morning? |
"What is rather odd is a middle aged man with a family...on a football message board on a Saturday evening. Do you have nothing better to do?"
Wow! The amount of time Glassers spends on here... |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 11:19 - Sep 11 with 2600 views | BrixtonBlue |
| The Labour party.... on 09:45 - Sep 11 by BrixtonBlue |
You appear to have fooked up on that old reading and comprehension thing again.
I didn't say it was "the latest poll". I said it was "this latest poll in the Telegraph". As in the Telegraph's latest poll (which is a Tory paper BTW). If there was a comma after "poll" you'd have a point. But there isn't.
Besides all that, my poll was only from a few days ago. I'm sure it will swing back again in. another couple of days. The wider point (which surely is the most important thing here) is there isn't much in it. So people saying the Tories will return with an increased number of seats are basing that on what?
There's delicious irony in your last line. "Because I'm not some sort of weido desperate to score points on a football message board." - THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE!
You talk about me following you around the board and yet you're replying to ME here. HELLO?!? MCFLY?!? [Post edited 11 Sep 2018 9:51]
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I notice Glassers has avoided my reply.
The Conswervative swerves again. | |
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| The Labour party.... on 11:21 - Sep 11 with 2593 views | Steve_M |
| The Labour party.... on 08:50 - Sep 11 by Steve_M |
All the ones that had Labour behind were by biased Tories but those with Labour ahead should be taken as gospel. |
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| The Labour party.... on 11:49 - Sep 11 with 2538 views | giant_stow |
| The Labour party.... on 11:21 - Sep 11 by Steve_M |
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You can't say that!!!!! |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 11:57 - Sep 11 with 2520 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Labour party.... on 09:12 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
Anyone who disagrees with them is labelled a Tory or a Blairite, or right wing.
It amazes me that Blairite is seen as such an insult, considering that Blair is the only Labour PM of my life time and won 3 elections but that is deemed a failure.
But these people don't want to govern, they just want control of the Labour party.
People always comment, and I think fairly, that for the Conservatives it is about Party over the Country - keeping the Tory party together and in power is seen as the most important thing. The warring factions in Labour don't want to seem to keep the party together or to get in power, they just want control of the party as an end game. |
it's the old trotskyist belief that if you control the party machine you also control the people who vote for the party. doesn't work like that.
another trotskyist line is that losing elections doesn't matter because eventually there will such a big crisis that the voters will run out of alternatives and elect the party machine they're now in control of. they just need to be patient. but it doesn't work like that either. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Labour party.... on 11:59 - Sep 11 with 2515 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Labour party.... on 09:21 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
But is it pronounced Quinoa, or Quinoa? |
it's pronounced in which ever way that most annoys the person eating it. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Labour party.... on 12:00 - Sep 11 with 2505 views | chicoazul |
| The Labour party.... on 10:19 - Sep 11 by Gromheort |
"Minimum Wage was Gordon Brown"
People tend to forget that big business were actually in favour of the minimum wage (perhaps because there is a positive relationship between wage and firm size). The problem is that New Labour enabled an innate conservatism to determine its level. That even allowed Cameron to come in and look radical with his 'living wage' vocab reinvention. |
How is an egalitarian policy like wage control an example of innate conservatism? |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 12:05 - Sep 11 with 2500 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Labour party.... on 11:07 - Sep 11 by Gromheort |
Nope. Its always been well understood. Empirical understanding of the relationship between wage and firm size goes way back. Certainly before Uncle Blair.
We can refer to the CBI and Tory links. That typically represented foolish agreement with a macroeconomic model that predicted unemployment by restoring all wage differentials.
The minimum wage, however, was a conservative introduction (i.e. note the little 'c'; it was a means to support the economic status quo). There's a reason such legislation is standard practice in economies, including those corrupted by market fundamentalism. [Post edited 11 Sep 2018 11:08]
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big words, little meaning. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Labour party.... on 12:11 - Sep 11 with 2486 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Labour party.... on 12:00 - Sep 11 by chicoazul |
How is an egalitarian policy like wage control an example of innate conservatism? |
I think it's because it was designed to 'conserve' jobs. a radical approach would have been to set it at a level that led to widespread job loss cos that would have increased class consciousness and resulted in the overthrow of capitalism. i'm just guessing of course. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Labour party.... on 12:11 - Sep 11 with 2477 views | No9 |
| The Labour party.... on 11:57 - Sep 11 by lowhouseblue |
it's the old trotskyist belief that if you control the party machine you also control the people who vote for the party. doesn't work like that.
another trotskyist line is that losing elections doesn't matter because eventually there will such a big crisis that the voters will run out of alternatives and elect the party machine they're now in control of. they just need to be patient. but it doesn't work like that either. |
Isn't any political party what the members make it? | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 12:15 - Sep 11 with 2470 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 12:00 - Sep 11 by chicoazul |
How is an egalitarian policy like wage control an example of innate conservatism? |
Egalitarian? A couple of issues with that. First, the labour economics is actually based on efficiency criteria (i.e
Reducing underpayment created by monopsonistic power). Second, the impact of the minimum wage on poverty (particularly a conservative one favoured by New Labour) is marginal. You'd need, at the very least, a living wage.
Let's not forget that Uncle Blair also continued Thatcherite labour policies, helping to guarantee the switch to zero hour contracts and the gig economy | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 12:20 - Sep 11 with 2453 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Labour party.... on 12:11 - Sep 11 by No9 |
Isn't any political party what the members make it? |
no, it all depends on what the voters make of it. without voters members are just satisfying their own egos. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Labour party.... on 12:26 - Sep 11 with 2435 views | Rob88 |
| The Labour party.... on 08:44 - Sep 11 by WeWereZombies |
Labour's hardline stance is puzzling, given that there is an open goal at the next election if only they were facing the 'right' way. But for decades we complained that it did not seem to make any difference which way you voted because all three parties were too centrist. However, Corbyn does not seem to be what we wanted when we yearned for a left wing firebrand to wake up Britain. Weak delivery, incapable of presenting a pluralistic approach to Palestine and nowhere near media savvy.
Therein lies the problem, the calibre of British politicians at the moment is dire and the ones who could and should be stepping up to the plate, Chukka Ummna and Andy Burnham and David Milliband for Labour as well as Ruth Davidson for the Tories, are busying themselves with other things.
We, the electorate, only have ourselves to blame. We haven't treated decent politicians well and perhaps all we deserve are the Boris Johnsons, Corbyns and Goves of this World. [Post edited 11 Sep 2018 8:47]
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I believe the adage goes "people get the leaders they deserve" | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 12:46 - Sep 11 with 2399 views | itfcjoe |
| The Labour party.... on 12:05 - Sep 11 by lowhouseblue |
big words, little meaning. |
I've given up, there is no point in engaging as s/he just doesn't say anything - just talks around every point and in flowery pseudo-intellectual waffle. It's like speaking to someone on a different planet - we don't seem to share any frames of reference. | |
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| The Labour party.... on 12:54 - Sep 11 with 2377 views | jaykay |
| The Labour party.... on 08:26 - Sep 11 by hype313 |
The thing is, the next generation will use such platforms to base their political opinions on, social media is huge for political parties which is why they throw as much resource at it it as possible.
If Joe is saying he has seen a sh1tstorm, then it's totally plausible that people might be turned off by the infighting. |
trouble is the generation before used the sun for their political opinions. no right of reply with that info, at least you can on social media ,so i am led to believe
i dont use social media so i might be wrong, well i use twtd so thats me a liar.
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| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| The Labour party.... on 13:07 - Sep 11 with 2344 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 11:57 - Sep 11 by lowhouseblue |
it's the old trotskyist belief that if you control the party machine you also control the people who vote for the party. doesn't work like that.
another trotskyist line is that losing elections doesn't matter because eventually there will such a big crisis that the voters will run out of alternatives and elect the party machine they're now in control of. they just need to be patient. but it doesn't work like that either. |
Where are these Trotskyist? And who are they? Why aren't they stopping democratisation of the party and necessary sidelining of the centralised party machine? | | | |
| The Labour party.... on 13:09 - Sep 11 with 2337 views | noggin |
| The Labour party.... on 10:04 - Sep 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Ooh, hadn't seen that, well if you are bringing PM's into the public domain maybe everybody should have a look......nothing to hide here! Start from the bottom obviously....
I did ask. You ignored me which is against the T's and C's of this board. I am now messaging Phil.Â
I can categorically assure you I had nothing to do with your thread being removed. perhaps confirmation from him will put an end to this obsessive stalking.Â
--------------------------------------------------Â
Can you stop messaging me .........it's a little obsessive!Â
--------------------------------------------------Â
I have asked you to stop messaging me. Please stop stalking me.Â
--------------------------------------------------Â
Bullsh1t nobody has internet coverage that bad.......maybe you were connected just long enough to contact admin, who knows! Obsessive coming from you is just plain hilarious!Â
--------------------------------------------------Â
You are monitoring when and when I am not online? What a weirdo. You do realise that I will be online 99% of the time when my devices I am logged into have an internet signal, whether I am reading or not.Â
Please stop messaging me. I know you are an obsessive but I'm finding this a little creepy.Â
--------------------------------------------------Â
There is no conspiracy in the fact you were shown as online at various times over the weekend for half an hour here and there without commenting........hiding something? I don't have your ego problem so don't imagine it was only me you were policing within your empire!Â
--------------------------------------------------Â
And so the conspiracy theories continue into the week. Some of us have lives Banksy. I was away with my wife and family for the weekend. The last thing on my my was reading the rantings of a plastic anarchist who is prone to repeating atntisemitic tropes.Â
--------------------------------------------------Â
You must just have been popping up on line and not reading stuff over the weekend then.....very odd! (Only just seen it my arris!)Â
--------------------------------------------------Â
I assume you are talking about disappearing threads as I’ve just seen your thread on the subject.Â
If you believe in am responsible the you give me far more credit than I deserve. I don’t want threads removed. If people make antisemitic comments then I prefer them to be left up for people to see and judge. Although I don’t recall, on this occasion, you doing so.Â
What is rather odd is a middle aged man with a family engaging in conspiracy theories about disappearing threads on a football message board on a Saturday evening. Do you have nothing better to do? And what’s with the litigious poster comment?Â
With regards to the subject of a Jezza and antisemitism. The subject has now been settled by Sir Trevor Phillips, a man who knows more about racism than you or I. He stated this weekend that “[his] party is run by antisemites and racists”.Â
Enjoy your day xxÂ
--------------------------------------------------Â
Busy morning? |
Blimey, that is creepy. |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 13:10 - Sep 11 with 2326 views | Vic |
Joe - what have you done? You after a 20 pager? |  |
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| The Labour party.... on 13:18 - Sep 11 with 2300 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Labour party.... on 13:07 - Sep 11 by Gromheort |
Where are these Trotskyist? And who are they? Why aren't they stopping democratisation of the party and necessary sidelining of the centralised party machine? |
haven't you read about how entryism works? no? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Labour party.... on 13:20 - Sep 11 with 2289 views | Gromheort |
| The Labour party.... on 13:18 - Sep 11 by lowhouseblue |
haven't you read about how entryism works? no? |
You didn't answer the questions. Where are these Trotskyist? Why haven't they done anything? And why aren't they fighting against democratisation of the party? Or do you think democracy is a Trotsky phenomenon? | | | |
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