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Is it just me? 19:51 - Jun 10 with 9362 viewsSpruceMoose

Or does anyone else find the thought of Boris Johnson being our PM, something we can never erase from our history books, utterly and thoroughly depressing?

I mean, ffs, what's the point of anything if that sh!tstain is our representative?

Britain's fall to complete laughing stock will be complete should this come to pass.

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Is it just me? on 14:56 - Jun 11 with 472 viewsSpruceMoose

Is it just me? on 14:54 - Jun 11 by pickles110564

It is the people like Footers that are so smug and think they are so much better than us thickies that is the problem.


It's people like footers who are bored of this trope that students are workshy layabouts who should for some reason be ashamed that they are trying to better themselves. This criticism inevitably comes from a section of people who haven't been to university and seem rather jealous.

Maybe they don't realise they're doing it. Maybe they don't know how comments about their nephews only working seven hours a week read.

The world needs a good mixture of hod botherers and book wranglers, and the beauty of it is, nowadays most folk can choose what which one they want to become. They can follow their interests. For those who missed the boat for some reason, you can at the very least help your children to achieve whatever they want to achieve. People go in different directions for different reasons, we should be thankful to them all. Most people play a roll that we need playing
[Post edited 11 Jun 15:00]

Poll: Selectamod

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Is it just me? on 14:57 - Jun 11 with 459 viewsgordon

Is it just me? on 14:47 - Jun 11 by brogansnose

Joe's not wrong here though. Apart from giving the impression that the current leadership is more concerned with the Middle East and the internal situations in the likes of Venezuela, they don't convey their message to those effected by globalisation and austerity very well and come accross as aloof and more interested in internal factionalism. Admittedly, some of this will be media generated but Labour are not taking advantage of what is a godawful, dangerous bunch of ignorant, self seeking incompetant Tory schmucks. People I know and work with absolutely revile Corbyn whilst being fully aware that the likes of BJ et all are chuffing useless.


Well done for getting your degree and I'm sure you worked damn hard for it and I mean that sincerely but when you then go on about ' thick brick lugging donkeys' , which is my trade btw, then you alienate the working class who you purport to fight for and support. See also Emily Thornberry. When Labour loses touch with the working class then it leaves a void to be filled which it has been by populist's like Farage and his ilk.


I agree with the second half of the first paragraph - I get the impression that lots of Corbyn's people are more concerned with winning internal arguments within the wider Labour movement than putting forward a realistic alternative to whatever it is that the conservative party stand for. It's understandable, in a way, because that's a big part of what they've been doing for their careers - agitating for Labour to move further to the left. But now they're in charge, you get the sense that they're still stuck fighting those same internal battles of the left.

They seem pretty much unable to provide clear, modern, meaningful messages about policy, and a coherent, sustained critique of the current brand of conservatism (which admittedly is difficult, because the conservative party seems not to know what it stands for anymore either, other than some kind of Brexit as soon as possible).
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Is it just me? on 14:58 - Jun 11 with 454 viewsfooters

Is it just me? on 14:54 - Jun 11 by pickles110564

It is the people like Footers that are so smug and think they are so much better than us thickies that is the problem.


Sorry, weren't you just putting down geography students and others despite not having a degree yourself? I'm not the one with chips on my shoulder, buh.

"Man up you floppy armed fig. Footers is actually talking a lot of sense here."

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Is it just me? on 15:00 - Jun 11 with 441 viewsitfcjoe

Is it just me? on 14:54 - Jun 11 by footers

Sorry brogs, didn't mean to offend. As Spruce pointed out it was more a dig at those who seek to pull down students and other book-wranglers.

I agree that Labour hasn't done a great job at holding the government to account or laying out its vision. But that is very difficult with such a hostile press who want to play personality politics and not focus on policy.

On the other hand, I don't want to infantilise the working class who know full well what they're voting for. If they honestly believe the Tories/UKIP/Brexit will do them a favour then there's not much more I can say to that. They have eyes, ears and brains too.


But if they aren't taught to critically think and how to research then their ears eyes and brains won't help much as they've not been trained to do so.

It is always shown that Brexit is an Old vs Young debate - but the reality is that education level is a far bigger tell for which way someone voted. And the reality is critical thinking is barely taught in schools these days - it's exam preparation in the main in the key years of 14/15-18.

I have quite an interesting viewpoint of it as a mature apprentice student alongside other mid-level managers on a course with school leavers at a low end university - skills you think are obvious are missing in a lot of cases from these school leavers.

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Is it just me? on 15:01 - Jun 11 with 435 viewswkj

Is it just me? on 14:54 - Jun 11 by pickles110564

It is the people like Footers that are so smug and think they are so much better than us thickies that is the problem.


Footers isn't smug, hes a veteran Londoner. The two are similar, but where footers has the advantage is he knows where all the sushi comes from- which is a barometer of "how London" you are now a days.

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Is it just me? on 15:02 - Jun 11 with 421 viewsbrogansnose

Is it just me? on 14:49 - Jun 11 by SpruceMoose

Fwiw, I don't think Footers is serious about the hod botherers. I think he's just responding to the constant criticism that students seem to get on here.


Hmmm, when I read it it seemed to be a of a lashing out tbh but that was on a bit of an angry thread. Trouble is that its hard to detect sometimes from words on the interweb rather than a face to face situation. Anyway, I still stand by my point that Labour should essentially be connecting more with their core vote, but they're not.
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Is it just me? on 15:04 - Jun 11 with 413 viewspickles110564

Is it just me? on 14:58 - Jun 11 by footers

Sorry, weren't you just putting down geography students and others despite not having a degree yourself? I'm not the one with chips on my shoulder, buh.


Just spin it how you want as always.
Why would I be paying so much for my three children's education if I have a chip on my shoulder?
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Is it just me? on 15:04 - Jun 11 with 415 viewsunstableblue

Boris is a proven liar, for example his made up stories when he was Torygraph Brussels correspondent, about the EU were calculated and callous.

He's also an egotist, and a buffoon (albeit a lot of that is put on).

Yes we've had a few questionable PMs over the years, but I think they in the main have at least had some modicum of integrity. Would be a sad day if Boris was ushered in.

Its not completely unfeasible, this Tory party division got us Brexit for F@CKS SAKE.

But I do think Hunt will be chosen. So not too much to worry about.

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Is it just me? on 15:05 - Jun 11 with 401 viewsfooters

Is it just me? on 15:04 - Jun 11 by pickles110564

Just spin it how you want as always.
Why would I be paying so much for my three children's education if I have a chip on my shoulder?


Why would you be saying your nephew is relatively thick if you didn't?

"Man up you floppy armed fig. Footers is actually talking a lot of sense here."

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Is it just me? on 15:07 - Jun 11 with 392 viewsfooters

Is it just me? on 15:00 - Jun 11 by itfcjoe

But if they aren't taught to critically think and how to research then their ears eyes and brains won't help much as they've not been trained to do so.

It is always shown that Brexit is an Old vs Young debate - but the reality is that education level is a far bigger tell for which way someone voted. And the reality is critical thinking is barely taught in schools these days - it's exam preparation in the main in the key years of 14/15-18.

I have quite an interesting viewpoint of it as a mature apprentice student alongside other mid-level managers on a course with school leavers at a low end university - skills you think are obvious are missing in a lot of cases from these school leavers.


Well, whatever the case they have their wish now. Tory government and a potential no-deal Brexit. It's gonna be one hell of a toboggan ride!

"Man up you floppy armed fig. Footers is actually talking a lot of sense here."

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Is it just me? on 15:08 - Jun 11 with 383 viewsSpruceMoose

Is it just me? on 15:04 - Jun 11 by pickles110564

Just spin it how you want as always.
Why would I be paying so much for my three children's education if I have a chip on my shoulder?


Because people want the best for their kids, but sometimes begrudge other kids who aren't theirs the very same thing?

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Is it just me? on 15:09 - Jun 11 with 378 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Is it just me? on 15:05 - Jun 11 by footers

Why would you be saying your nephew is relatively thick if you didn't?


He never said that though, he just said that his degree was not so hard

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Is it just me? on 15:09 - Jun 11 with 377 viewsitfcjoe

Is it just me? on 15:07 - Jun 11 by footers

Well, whatever the case they have their wish now. Tory government and a potential no-deal Brexit. It's gonna be one hell of a toboggan ride!


But they haven't got their wish, they are being sold a pup and being told that Brexit will be a panacea to all their issues.

And who will be blamed afterwards when things get worse? The Brexiteers who pushed for this and lead us off the cliff? Of course not, it will be the 'remoaners' who ruined it by not getting the perfect deal for these hero brexiteers who will be richer than they were before.

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Is it just me? on 15:11 - Jun 11 with 358 viewsbrogansnose

Is it just me? on 14:50 - Jun 11 by wkj

It is a facinating critique to be honest, anyone that ignores the fact a balance of thinkers and doers makes the world tick is an utter hod botherer tbf


Well thanks. Substitute ' hod botherer' for refuse collector, delivery driver, farm hand..............................You hardly do your pluralistic argument any good , one which I agree with, by labelling peoples level of percieved intelligence by their occupation.
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Is it just me? on 15:14 - Jun 11 with 342 viewsfooters

Is it just me? on 15:09 - Jun 11 by itfcjoe

But they haven't got their wish, they are being sold a pup and being told that Brexit will be a panacea to all their issues.

And who will be blamed afterwards when things get worse? The Brexiteers who pushed for this and lead us off the cliff? Of course not, it will be the 'remoaners' who ruined it by not getting the perfect deal for these hero brexiteers who will be richer than they were before.


So what do you do when people refuse to listen to facts? The press want it, a lot of the public want it, the next Tory leader definitely wants it. Been three years of this now, just get it over with and let the turkeys have their Christmas.

"Man up you floppy armed fig. Footers is actually talking a lot of sense here."

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Is it just me? on 15:15 - Jun 11 with 339 viewsSpruceMoose

Is it just me? on 15:11 - Jun 11 by brogansnose

Well thanks. Substitute ' hod botherer' for refuse collector, delivery driver, farm hand..............................You hardly do your pluralistic argument any good , one which I agree with, by labelling peoples level of percieved intelligence by their occupation.


Edit - sorry thought you had replied to me not wkj.

I also said 'book wrangler' which probably was an indicator I was playing fast, loose and amusing with my naming conventions.

My father worked in the John Players factory in town and my mum cleaned at the school I went to.

I know full well about the people who do these perceived bottom of the rung jobs.
[Post edited 11 Jun 15:17]

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Is it just me? on 15:21 - Jun 11 with 313 viewswkj

Is it just me? on 15:11 - Jun 11 by brogansnose

Well thanks. Substitute ' hod botherer' for refuse collector, delivery driver, farm hand..............................You hardly do your pluralistic argument any good , one which I agree with, by labelling peoples level of percieved intelligence by their occupation.


I must admit I used the term somewhat ironically Mr Nose good sir

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Is it just me? on 15:22 - Jun 11 with 310 viewsbrogansnose

Is it just me? on 15:15 - Jun 11 by SpruceMoose

Edit - sorry thought you had replied to me not wkj.

I also said 'book wrangler' which probably was an indicator I was playing fast, loose and amusing with my naming conventions.

My father worked in the John Players factory in town and my mum cleaned at the school I went to.

I know full well about the people who do these perceived bottom of the rung jobs.
[Post edited 11 Jun 15:17]


Yeah, it ain't a thing Moosey and I'm sure Footy isn't being beastly but at a time when we need to be coming together, because I only see a tsunami of cack coming our collective way, then we don't need to alienate, be divisive or play into the hands of the populists.



Anyway, I'm taking a leaf out of Ryorrys book and taking the dog to the vet.



Play nicely you lot !
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Is it just me? on 15:22 - Jun 11 with 307 viewsitfcjoe

Is it just me? on 15:14 - Jun 11 by footers

So what do you do when people refuse to listen to facts? The press want it, a lot of the public want it, the next Tory leader definitely wants it. Been three years of this now, just get it over with and let the turkeys have their Christmas.


Have to try and fight it with logic for as long as you can

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Is it just me? on 15:27 - Jun 11 with 291 viewsfooters

Is it just me? on 15:22 - Jun 11 by itfcjoe

Have to try and fight it with logic for as long as you can


Admire your determination, Joe, but I'm just tired of it now, as you can probably tell. Politically we're now in the hands of a Tory Brexiteer and I fear the worst is going to happen with no chance to change course.

"Man up you floppy armed fig. Footers is actually talking a lot of sense here."

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Is it just me? on 15:27 - Jun 11 with 291 viewsgordon

Is it just me? on 15:14 - Jun 11 by footers

So what do you do when people refuse to listen to facts? The press want it, a lot of the public want it, the next Tory leader definitely wants it. Been three years of this now, just get it over with and let the turkeys have their Christmas.


Yeah, that's what I think - it's by far the stupidest thing this country has ever done, but I can't see what the alternative is - so many people are convinced that it has to happen, and there are some pretty awful people waiting to take advantage of the 'betrayal' if it doesn't.

So I think we've just got to strap on the life jacket. And it's important that we get the full Brexit that the most brexity brexiteers are dreaming of, so that the ensuing disasters are fully owned by the Brexiteers. I can't see any other way.

Although, the complete implosion of the conservative party would be fantastic to see if we did end up with a second referendum and a remain outcome after all this.
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Is it just me? on 15:41 - Jun 11 with 247 viewsitfcjoe

Is it just me? on 15:27 - Jun 11 by footers

Admire your determination, Joe, but I'm just tired of it now, as you can probably tell. Politically we're now in the hands of a Tory Brexiteer and I fear the worst is going to happen with no chance to change course.


It's a disgrace, I feel in my situation I'll be largely insulated from the worst effects of it fortunately but the fact that all responsibility will still pass to the 'Remoaners' frustrates me enough to want to stop it somehow

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Is it just me? on 15:44 - Jun 11 with 240 viewsfooters

Is it just me? on 15:27 - Jun 11 by gordon

Yeah, that's what I think - it's by far the stupidest thing this country has ever done, but I can't see what the alternative is - so many people are convinced that it has to happen, and there are some pretty awful people waiting to take advantage of the 'betrayal' if it doesn't.

So I think we've just got to strap on the life jacket. And it's important that we get the full Brexit that the most brexity brexiteers are dreaming of, so that the ensuing disasters are fully owned by the Brexiteers. I can't see any other way.

Although, the complete implosion of the conservative party would be fantastic to see if we did end up with a second referendum and a remain outcome after all this.


They'll never own it because it's 'not what we voted for' - such a cop out. So I agree that it needs to be the hardest possible Brexit to satisfy the hardcore leavers.

I can't see any political opportunity for us to change course now. Tory and leave voters, this is your mess, own it.

"Man up you floppy armed fig. Footers is actually talking a lot of sense here."

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Is it just me? on 15:44 - Jun 11 with 238 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Is it just me? on 15:27 - Jun 11 by gordon

Yeah, that's what I think - it's by far the stupidest thing this country has ever done, but I can't see what the alternative is - so many people are convinced that it has to happen, and there are some pretty awful people waiting to take advantage of the 'betrayal' if it doesn't.

So I think we've just got to strap on the life jacket. And it's important that we get the full Brexit that the most brexity brexiteers are dreaming of, so that the ensuing disasters are fully owned by the Brexiteers. I can't see any other way.

Although, the complete implosion of the conservative party would be fantastic to see if we did end up with a second referendum and a remain outcome after all this.


This sums up a lot of my thoughts - was very much a remainer but the door has very much been opened and we’re too far down the tracks to stop now, IMO

I don’t agree that it has to be full Brexit however I do think we should be currently putting our eggs in the basket of no deal and preparing for that eventuality. Not because it’s the best outcome (clearly it isn’t) however it does at least mean we have a plan if forced to go down that road, and will strengthen our negotiating position with the EU - and probably should have been our approach from the start

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Is it just me? on 16:00 - Jun 11 with 193 viewsgordon

Is it just me? on 15:44 - Jun 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

This sums up a lot of my thoughts - was very much a remainer but the door has very much been opened and we’re too far down the tracks to stop now, IMO

I don’t agree that it has to be full Brexit however I do think we should be currently putting our eggs in the basket of no deal and preparing for that eventuality. Not because it’s the best outcome (clearly it isn’t) however it does at least mean we have a plan if forced to go down that road, and will strengthen our negotiating position with the EU - and probably should have been our approach from the start


No-deal would put us in a the weakest negotiating position of any country in the world - we'll have a few skeletal existing trade arrangements, and we'll need to do deals as quickly as possible for political reasons and to protect domestic businesses. We will be forced to make invidious trade-offs between different sector of the UK economy, and our politicians will have to dress it all up as something positive.

However, it's probably necessary now - people need to realise how ridiculous and vacuous the promises that were made are, and this is the only way, in my opinion.
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