| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here 08:28 - Jul 8 with 19755 views | itfcjoe |
Discuss... |  |
| |  |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:54 - Jul 8 with 2464 views | Slambo |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:39 - Jul 8 by Guthrum |
We won't be going bust, either.
Upward progress in English football at the momen is predicated on finding one of two things, either a) a genuinely deep-pocketed benefactor, such as Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha or Vincent Tan; or b) luck, acquiring a talented manager, an unexpectedly good player (e.g. Pukki), having a season just "click", with decisions going the right way and few injuries to crucial players (e.g. Sheff U and Norwich last season).
Marcus Evans is not a) - very few owners genuinely are. And we have fallen dreadfully afoul of b) for several seasons running.
Many clubs have run aground trying to simply spend their way into the Prem, because the owners did not really have the money required, because they could not sustain the required level for more than one season, through downright dodginess, or just simply because it hasn't quite worked (like Derby). For some of them, it has led to the brink of outright ruin (Portsmouth, Bolton).
By choosing to play along with the rules of modern English football finance, you set yourself a tremendously stiff task, requiring immense, sustained resources and with a massive degree of risk. Yes, the potential return might be high, but you may end up losing more than you had to start off with.
Evans has not participated in that high-stakes, high-risk game (perhaps because he knows he can't). The result has been a slow decline, but no dramatic crash. The club is still intact, albeit having dropped a division. There is a moderately sustainable plan in place, of using as many home-grown players as possible.
The question exists as to whether the entire English football model is sustainable. Many clubs are struggling badly, even some in the Prem. Rampant inflation has caused massive debt. If the flow of Sky TV money (reliant on a single company) ever faulters, the crash will be catastrophic.
Is sitting out of the game for a bit more healthy, long term, than getting beaten nearly to death in the current maul, which may end up falling over a cliff anyway? |
This is an absolutely superb post - wish i could give it more upticks...
Yes, Evans has completely ballsed this up, but in modern football you're onto a hiding for nothing anyway: spend the GDP of a small country to win major trophies, or spend a slightly smaller fortune to simply make up Premier League numbers. We cast envious glances at Norwich, but what did they achieve last year..? The dubious honour of being titled East Anglia's Premier League Whipping Boy for 2020. And besides, no-one's infallible; they'll make mistakes, get a dose of misfortune and one of these days find themselves in a financial death roll like us. So yeah, for now, i'd rather be at the bottom of a ladder I can climb...
I've said it before, and i'll say it again: the Premier League as a separate, self-serving entity is the root of all evil in English football. And until it's destroyed, there will always be a cartel of obscenely wealthy clubs hogging all the glory, while the rest of scrabble around for scraps. My concern is the much prayed for bursting of the PL bubble. Football is now so deeply financialised that there are too many people with too much to lose if the gravy train derails. Just like the banks were too big to fail after the economic crash, and were subsequently bailed out and propped up, the same will be true of football. It would require a concerted popular movement to level the playing field, and make it actually worthwhile for owners to properly invest in their clubs, but we're too busy bickering amongst ourselves or attacking the wrong enemy... |  |
| |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 14:22 - Jul 8 with 2354 views | BlueBadger |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:15 - Jul 8 by Fixed_It |
Credit for investing in the Academy. Imagine where we would be if he hadn't done that either... |
Still in the third division? |  |
| |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 15:05 - Jul 8 with 2318 views | Leaky |
Where ME went wrong a few years ago was missing out on Cat A academy by what was it 0.3% penny pinching has cost us |  | | |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 16:33 - Jul 8 with 2294 views | Mullet |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 09:33 - Jul 8 by Bloots |
….of our fans are a bit thick don't you?
They probably still think everything is MM's fault.
"In Mick We tRust"
I'll be interested to hear the views of those that said the inevitable relegation after he left would be "a good thing" and that we'd "Come back stronger".
The fanbase is obsessed by extremes, whether that's the "spunk loads of cash" crew, or the "play all the kids" brigade.
When you are in our position then football is all about balance, but too many of our fans are bored of balance.
Balance is boring.
Balance gets you nowhere, literally.
The question remains as to whether going nowhere was better than going where we are going now.
We have an owner that has literally no interest in progressing the club and is happy to minimise his losses, whatever league we are in and a manager that will say anything to get a job and then say anything to keep it.
Neither of them are capable of running/managing a Championship club, let alone a Championship club with higher aspirations.
I fear that they have now found their level in the lower reaches of professional football.
But it's not where our club should be. |
You're being far too generous there. After Mick left we were supposed to be going up etc.
Amazing how these people change their tune more than a jukebox, but don't get switched off. |  |
| |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 16:34 - Jul 8 with 2274 views | Herbivore |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 15:05 - Jul 8 by Leaky |
Where ME went wrong a few years ago was missing out on Cat A academy by what was it 0.3% penny pinching has cost us |
Show your workings on that one, friend. |  |
| |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 16:36 - Jul 8 with 2277 views | Mullet |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 15:05 - Jul 8 by Leaky |
Where ME went wrong a few years ago was missing out on Cat A academy by what was it 0.3% penny pinching has cost us |
That was clearly a stitch up in fairness, although it doesn't help he tried to move away from the academy then did a volte-face on it prior to that. | |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 16:46 - Jul 8 with 2225 views | J2BLUE |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 16:33 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
You're being far too generous there. After Mick left we were supposed to be going up etc.
Amazing how these people change their tune more than a jukebox, but don't get switched off. |
You've got to let MM go. He did a great job but we were only going one way with him. We might still be in the Championship getting crowds of 10,000 after having just gloriously finished 17th but it's not the brilliant alternative some make out. We're fecked. We might find enough to go back up but then what? Same again until we fall back down. We are fecked until someone else buys us. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 16:53 - Jul 8 with 2211 views | Herbivore |
Show your workings, friend. That article doesn't explain why missing out on Cat 1 was the biggest mistake Evans made. It doesn't remotely evidence that claim. | |
| |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 17:19 - Jul 8 with 2176 views | Moriarty |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:39 - Jul 8 by Guthrum |
We won't be going bust, either.
Upward progress in English football at the momen is predicated on finding one of two things, either a) a genuinely deep-pocketed benefactor, such as Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha or Vincent Tan; or b) luck, acquiring a talented manager, an unexpectedly good player (e.g. Pukki), having a season just "click", with decisions going the right way and few injuries to crucial players (e.g. Sheff U and Norwich last season).
Marcus Evans is not a) - very few owners genuinely are. And we have fallen dreadfully afoul of b) for several seasons running.
Many clubs have run aground trying to simply spend their way into the Prem, because the owners did not really have the money required, because they could not sustain the required level for more than one season, through downright dodginess, or just simply because it hasn't quite worked (like Derby). For some of them, it has led to the brink of outright ruin (Portsmouth, Bolton).
By choosing to play along with the rules of modern English football finance, you set yourself a tremendously stiff task, requiring immense, sustained resources and with a massive degree of risk. Yes, the potential return might be high, but you may end up losing more than you had to start off with.
Evans has not participated in that high-stakes, high-risk game (perhaps because he knows he can't). The result has been a slow decline, but no dramatic crash. The club is still intact, albeit having dropped a division. There is a moderately sustainable plan in place, of using as many home-grown players as possible.
The question exists as to whether the entire English football model is sustainable. Many clubs are struggling badly, even some in the Prem. Rampant inflation has caused massive debt. If the flow of Sky TV money (reliant on a single company) ever faulters, the crash will be catastrophic.
Is sitting out of the game for a bit more healthy, long term, than getting beaten nearly to death in the current maul, which may end up falling over a cliff anyway? |
One thing I would add is that when Evans came, there was talk of £12M and David Norris arrived.
Felt like we were going for it then. But as you say, the money game has really overtaken us.
Time has ruthlessly exposed Evans’s opening and very costly mistakes in appointing Clegg and Keane. |  |
| |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 17:31 - Jul 8 with 2150 views | 66notout |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:45 - Jul 8 by homer_123 |
I know what you are saying but I can also understand the frustration.
Oddly Evans has his plus points - as an owner he doesn't get involved in trying to manage, pick the team or sign players he 'wants'. He has invested in the past and he's not achieved what he has wanted - I, personally, don't mind running the club within our means but that does mean we somewhat hamstring ourselves.
The reality, and I guess this would be your point about people repeating themselves, is that it is exactly this approach that we have taken over the past number of years. Whilst Hurst had 'some' funds, it was clearly funded in part by a lot of players leaving, allowing budgets to be spent differently but, again, Evans has his fingers burnt.
Mick was successful on a shoestring and now Lambert is going to have the do the same.
I'm not suggesting either of those points as both don't really serve a purpose but I do understand the frustration.
ME isn't investing (over and above running costs), so we need to move on from that narrative. I think it's common knowledge that he wouldn't mind selling - the major issue is that we aren't an attractive purchase right now.
We are in limbo where I can see us slowly continuing to decline as times goes on. |
Oddly Evans has his plus points - as an owner he doesn't get involved in trying to manage, pick the team or sign players he 'wants'.
Except Jon Walters |  | | |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 17:53 - Jul 8 with 2112 views | Mullet |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 16:46 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE |
You've got to let MM go. He did a great job but we were only going one way with him. We might still be in the Championship getting crowds of 10,000 after having just gloriously finished 17th but it's not the brilliant alternative some make out. We're fecked. We might find enough to go back up but then what? Same again until we fall back down. We are fecked until someone else buys us. |
Why do I have to "let MM go" but the bloke who calls most of our fanbase thick and subsequent agreeing sentiments don't?
We didn't finish 17th when he left, to go with that line of thinking is disingenuous as the results and attendances both went the wrong way from what was promised.
The fact we started his last season so well and people showed that truly it was results and nothing else that mattered, is another thing conveniently glossed over.
Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. [Post edited 8 Jul 2019 17:58]
| |
| |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 17:56 - Jul 8 with 2097 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:16 - Jul 8 by StokieBlue |
Why don't you offer some ideas on how it can be changed rather than 4 years of continuous moaning without any actual ideas on what to do.
SB [Post edited 8 Jul 2019 10:31]
|
I have no ideas. I’m just a supporter.
That doesn’t mean I can’t disagree with the way the people who should know what they are doing, are doing them. |  |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:00 - Jul 8 with 2072 views | J2BLUE |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 17:53 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
Why do I have to "let MM go" but the bloke who calls most of our fanbase thick and subsequent agreeing sentiments don't?
We didn't finish 17th when he left, to go with that line of thinking is disingenuous as the results and attendances both went the wrong way from what was promised.
The fact we started his last season so well and people showed that truly it was results and nothing else that mattered, is another thing conveniently glossed over.
Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. [Post edited 8 Jul 2019 17:58]
|
No idea what that first line is about?
I know results went the wrong way but, forgive me if i'm wrong, you seem to look back on the MM years as some sort of glory period. It was incredibly obvious that if he had stayed we might well still be in the Championship but we'd probably have about 8000 season ticket holders now. I don't disagree that he was a good manager but he didn't help himself. He lost my support when we had an outside shot at the play offs and were all but safe. He said after the match where we played defensively that going for it just wasn't him. For me that is when his time was up. I also don't disagree that results are all that matters. If we could have two seasons of the most dire football every but two promotions then we would all take it.
'Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. ' - again, what? You seem to get very rattled very easily these days. I'm not having pot shots at you. | |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:04 - Jul 8 with 2073 views | blueislander |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 17:53 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
Why do I have to "let MM go" but the bloke who calls most of our fanbase thick and subsequent agreeing sentiments don't?
We didn't finish 17th when he left, to go with that line of thinking is disingenuous as the results and attendances both went the wrong way from what was promised.
The fact we started his last season so well and people showed that truly it was results and nothing else that mattered, is another thing conveniently glossed over.
Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. [Post edited 8 Jul 2019 17:58]
|
Although none of us have ever been in Marcus Evans’ situation , nor are we ever likely to be, as Town fans, we surely must look to the future, and speculate what he may be able to do, rather than discuss the past. | | | |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:05 - Jul 8 with 2057 views | SpruceMoose |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:04 - Jul 8 by blueislander |
Although none of us have ever been in Marcus Evans’ situation , nor are we ever likely to be, as Town fans, we surely must look to the future, and speculate what he may be able to do, rather than discuss the past. |
Maybe an insane and frivolous spender will be born in Chantry who somehow will go on to become a billionaire and buy us. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:06 - Jul 8 with 2061 views | Mullet |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:00 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE |
No idea what that first line is about?
I know results went the wrong way but, forgive me if i'm wrong, you seem to look back on the MM years as some sort of glory period. It was incredibly obvious that if he had stayed we might well still be in the Championship but we'd probably have about 8000 season ticket holders now. I don't disagree that he was a good manager but he didn't help himself. He lost my support when we had an outside shot at the play offs and were all but safe. He said after the match where we played defensively that going for it just wasn't him. For me that is when his time was up. I also don't disagree that results are all that matters. If we could have two seasons of the most dire football every but two promotions then we would all take it.
'Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. ' - again, what? You seem to get very rattled very easily these days. I'm not having pot shots at you. |
Your hypocrisy, and selective nonsense in this thread, that's what it's about.
"I seem to" or actually just recognised it then and now for what it was, and refused to be taken in by the delusional sh1t still being piled on to this day? You're just making stuff up left, right and centre.
If Mick had us midtable, there's no way we'd have 8k, let alone if he got us higher as he usually did. It was never about Mick it was about fans being bored because they felt entitled to more playoff runs etc. and got carried away.
How do I "seem to get very rattled these days"? You're again just putting a load of words in my mouth, and then wondering why i'm calling you out on it. None of what you've said is factual or fair.
I wonder why that is. | |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:07 - Jul 8 with 2058 views | PJH |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:05 - Jul 8 by SpruceMoose |
Maybe an insane and frivolous spender will be born in Chantry who somehow will go on to become a billionaire and buy us. |
Although if they are not born yet that might take some time. |  | | |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:08 - Jul 8 with 2042 views | SpruceMoose |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:07 - Jul 8 by PJH |
Although if they are not born yet that might take some time. |
Better move to Chantry and start pumping them out then hadn't you!? | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:08 - Jul 8 with 2048 views | Mullet |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:04 - Jul 8 by blueislander |
Although none of us have ever been in Marcus Evans’ situation , nor are we ever likely to be, as Town fans, we surely must look to the future, and speculate what he may be able to do, rather than discuss the past. |
12 months ago.
12 months which directly inform where we are, where we are headed in a thread about the tenure of a man who has been here over a decade. Yet I'm wrapped up in the past, it's very odd this from you lot. | |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:14 - Jul 8 with 2019 views | J2BLUE |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:06 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
Your hypocrisy, and selective nonsense in this thread, that's what it's about.
"I seem to" or actually just recognised it then and now for what it was, and refused to be taken in by the delusional sh1t still being piled on to this day? You're just making stuff up left, right and centre.
If Mick had us midtable, there's no way we'd have 8k, let alone if he got us higher as he usually did. It was never about Mick it was about fans being bored because they felt entitled to more playoff runs etc. and got carried away.
How do I "seem to get very rattled these days"? You're again just putting a load of words in my mouth, and then wondering why i'm calling you out on it. None of what you've said is factual or fair.
I wonder why that is. |
Christ. You really do post aggressively these days.
I don't actually disagree with you. I just think his negatives have been glossed over by some and that it wouldn't be much better if he was still here. He performed miracles but eventually Evans' strategy would have taken anyone down. Hurst just increased the speed.
There's no doubt that we could be stuck in league one for years. I'm not pretending this is all good and exactly what we wanted. Clearly it isn't. | |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:16 - Jul 8 with 2009 views | J2BLUE |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:08 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
12 months ago.
12 months which directly inform where we are, where we are headed in a thread about the tenure of a man who has been here over a decade. Yet I'm wrapped up in the past, it's very odd this from you lot. |
That's a fair point. | |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:17 - Jul 8 with 2017 views | Mullet |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:14 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE |
Christ. You really do post aggressively these days.
I don't actually disagree with you. I just think his negatives have been glossed over by some and that it wouldn't be much better if he was still here. He performed miracles but eventually Evans' strategy would have taken anyone down. Hurst just increased the speed.
There's no doubt that we could be stuck in league one for years. I'm not pretending this is all good and exactly what we wanted. Clearly it isn't. |
You seem to be reading it that way because it suits. It's telling you keep making reference to how I'm feeling and thinking in as negative light as possible too. | |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:18 - Jul 8 with 2001 views | J2BLUE |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:17 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
You seem to be reading it that way because it suits. It's telling you keep making reference to how I'm feeling and thinking in as negative light as possible too. |
My apologies if i'm reading it that way. Can you explain the second part please? | |
| |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:20 - Jul 8 with 2003 views | Moriarty |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 17:53 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
Why do I have to "let MM go" but the bloke who calls most of our fanbase thick and subsequent agreeing sentiments don't?
We didn't finish 17th when he left, to go with that line of thinking is disingenuous as the results and attendances both went the wrong way from what was promised.
The fact we started his last season so well and people showed that truly it was results and nothing else that mattered, is another thing conveniently glossed over.
Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. [Post edited 8 Jul 2019 17:58]
|
Mick did a good job here.
There’s an interesting article by Paul Kimmage (2nd June) entitled “Mick McCarthy, people have been adding him up and getting him wrong for years”. Below is the link but you have to register to read. Kimmage is often worth a read though.
I know Stephen Hunt felt the targeting of Mick might have been a venting of frustration related to the boardroom, but the personal abuse Mick got from a segment of our support was wrong.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/paul-kimmage-on-mick-mccar | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
