| Let's get it out there on the record then... 12:40 - Oct 29 with 68294 views | SpruceMoose |
Voting intention?
Spruce: Currently undecided. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:55 - Oct 31 with 4380 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:26 - Oct 31 by Ryorry |
The policy that would actually hugely damage me personally, more than that of any other party (unless you generally include the Tories' NHS bashing, but that's too nebulous to nail down), would be their forcing landlords to sell - and at below market price too, but that's not the worst aspect of it - their rental properties to tenants. In my case, I bought a house with in-built small annexe (which LA regards as a separate property) in order to house a carer at some future point when I need. Till then I let it out to singles or young couples at a low-ish rent.
If Lab policy were implemented, I'd be forced to take it off the rental market, which would reduce my income to breadline level - not to mention removing a good quality, much needed let from people who need it. Round here in rural N. Yorks, small-size decent rentals for singles or young couples are v. scarce.
The RLA conducted a large scale survey which showed that if Lab were to implement the policy, a huge % of rental properties would immediately be taken off the market by landlords. It's a stupid, ill-conceived, not thought-through policy that'll actually increase rents & homelessness. The housing crisis does urgently need addressing of course - but not in a way that'll actually exacerbate it! |
There's a Labour policy forcing landlords to sell their rental properties to their tenants?! Sounds bizarre? There must be more to it than that. Have you got a link? |  |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:57 - Oct 31 with 4370 views | Ryorry |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:47 - Oct 31 by Clapham_Junction |
It's not an actual policy though. It was an idea put forward, possibly with the aim of seeing the reaction to it. |
Yet on 2nd Sept 2019 -
"McDonnell said that, should Labour win the next election, the party would bring in legislation allowing tenants to buy their rental home — and not necessarily for the market price.
He told the Financial Times: “You’d want to establish what is a reasonable price, you can establish that and then that becomes the right to buy.
“You (the government) set the criteria. I don’t think it’s complicated.”
https://news.rla.org.uk/labour-right-to-buy-plan-would-kill-off-prs/ |  |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:03 - Oct 31 with 4342 views | chicoazul |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:57 - Oct 31 by Ryorry |
Yet on 2nd Sept 2019 -
"McDonnell said that, should Labour win the next election, the party would bring in legislation allowing tenants to buy their rental home — and not necessarily for the market price.
He told the Financial Times: “You’d want to establish what is a reasonable price, you can establish that and then that becomes the right to buy.
“You (the government) set the criteria. I don’t think it’s complicated.”
https://news.rla.org.uk/labour-right-to-buy-plan-would-kill-off-prs/ |
They also said they would shut down the private school sector. I strongly doubt either of these policies will make it to their manifesto. Which is not to say they wouldnt do it anyway, of course. |  |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:07 - Oct 31 with 4335 views | StokieBlue |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:57 - Oct 31 by Ryorry |
Yet on 2nd Sept 2019 -
"McDonnell said that, should Labour win the next election, the party would bring in legislation allowing tenants to buy their rental home — and not necessarily for the market price.
He told the Financial Times: “You’d want to establish what is a reasonable price, you can establish that and then that becomes the right to buy.
“You (the government) set the criteria. I don’t think it’s complicated.”
https://news.rla.org.uk/labour-right-to-buy-plan-would-kill-off-prs/ |
McDonnell has form for this though - it's exactly the same approach he's said he would take for the valuation of the utilities.
Even previous Labour governments who have nationalised companies have taken a more systematic approach to value - for instance the average share price over the last 3 years or suchlike.
Arbitrary valuations are scary for a number of reasons. It's worse when it's applied to an individuals property rather than a corporate. I seriously doubt it will make the manifesto.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:27 - Oct 31 with 4295 views | Darth_Koont |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:13 - Oct 31 by giant_stow |
If Corbyn is an antisemite or the party has become instituionally antisemtic, then I have some faith in the investigation and its power to rectify those wrongs.
In a constituency where it was lab vs con with the others distant, it would make no sense to effectively reject one bunch or racists in favour of another by voting for an impossible winner. |
The investigation isn't into whether Corbyn is an antisemite or whether the party HAS BECOME institutionally antisemitic.
It's an investigation into how complaints are handled and whether there's any bias/interference/lack of process there that would mean it is by the definition of the EHRC is institutionally antisemitic. Whether Labour would have been deemed even more institutionally antisemitic before 2015 and before the Chakrabarti report is a reasonable question to ask.
But that's not really the main point. This investigation is a far cry from the casual assertions that the party is "riddled with antisemitism" (there's no credible evidence for that) or that Corbyn is an antisemite (ditto).
The tactic is take a little and accuse a lot. And a lot of people fall for it. Here thinking the problem is 300x worse than it actually is because largely of how much it's been kept in the news by engaged individuals and pressure groups:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/10/labour-party-antisemitism-claims-jeremy-corby
Are we going to see an election where dirty smears take precedence over discussing the real issues and tragedies facing the UK, its citizens and its minorities? |  |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:30 - Oct 31 with 4275 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:57 - Oct 31 by Ryorry |
Yet on 2nd Sept 2019 -
"McDonnell said that, should Labour win the next election, the party would bring in legislation allowing tenants to buy their rental home — and not necessarily for the market price.
He told the Financial Times: “You’d want to establish what is a reasonable price, you can establish that and then that becomes the right to buy.
“You (the government) set the criteria. I don’t think it’s complicated.”
https://news.rla.org.uk/labour-right-to-buy-plan-would-kill-off-prs/ |
That doesn't contradict what I said. It's not a policy at the moment - wait for the manifesto. |  | | |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:38 - Oct 31 with 4239 views | StokieBlue |
From JC's statement today:
Asked how he would vote in a new referendum on Brexit, Mr Corbyn says Labour would immediately negotiate a new deal.
"Within six months that offer, alongside Remain, would be put to the British people.
So possibly a new referendum in May 2020 not including no deal and then an unknown time after that to implement.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:41 - Oct 31 with 4231 views | itfcjoe |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:38 - Oct 31 by StokieBlue |
From JC's statement today:
Asked how he would vote in a new referendum on Brexit, Mr Corbyn says Labour would immediately negotiate a new deal.
"Within six months that offer, alongside Remain, would be put to the British people.
So possibly a new referendum in May 2020 not including no deal and then an unknown time after that to implement.
SB |
I think it is quite clear - anyone who wants a softer Brexit, or even to remain needs to look at that and see that it makes sense.
The other option is effectively Boris' deal or a harder Brexit if the Tories get a majority |  |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:42 - Oct 31 with 4217 views | chicoazul |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:38 - Oct 31 by StokieBlue |
From JC's statement today:
Asked how he would vote in a new referendum on Brexit, Mr Corbyn says Labour would immediately negotiate a new deal.
"Within six months that offer, alongside Remain, would be put to the British people.
So possibly a new referendum in May 2020 not including no deal and then an unknown time after that to implement.
SB |
New offer or Remain, and Thornberry for one has said she would campaign for Remain. So she would help parley and form the new deal and then campaign against it. [Post edited 31 Oct 2019 13:44]
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:45 - Oct 31 with 4205 views | Ely_Blue |
I’ll vote Labour however in East Cambridgeshire they have a snowball in hells chance of getting elected even if the Lib Dem’s stood aside in the interest of removing the Tories
Party
Conservative
Lucy Frazer Votes33,601 vote_share53.3
Party
Labour
Huw Jones Votes17,443 vote_share27.7
Party
Liberal Democrat
Lucy Nethsingha Votes11,958 vote_share19.0
Both Labour (12.7% and Tories 4.9%) benefitted from the downturn in Lib Dem votes last time around but there is no way Labour will double its vote around here, particularly given that a large percentage of the population are Eastern European immigrants who can’t vote and the biggest percentage are older typical posh Tory voters |  |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:49 - Oct 31 with 4195 views | lowhouseblue |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:41 - Oct 31 by itfcjoe |
I think it is quite clear - anyone who wants a softer Brexit, or even to remain needs to look at that and see that it makes sense.
The other option is effectively Boris' deal or a harder Brexit if the Tories get a majority |
labour definitely don't want it to be clear. it has been carefully designed to mean differet things to different people. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:50 - Oct 31 with 4186 views | itfcjoe |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:49 - Oct 31 by lowhouseblue |
labour definitely don't want it to be clear. it has been carefully designed to mean differet things to different people. |
I think it has got to the point where they may have just about gotten away with it, unbelievably | |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:51 - Oct 31 with 4182 views | Darth_Koont |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:41 - Oct 31 by itfcjoe |
I think it is quite clear - anyone who wants a softer Brexit, or even to remain needs to look at that and see that it makes sense.
The other option is effectively Boris' deal or a harder Brexit if the Tories get a majority |
Yes. Admittedly to remain in the EU and revoke Article 50, Boris's deal or especially the No Deal he said he wanted should be a god's send in a People's Vote. But simultaneously it raises the stakes and the risk of us making a calamitous choice and somehow crashing out with a worst option.
A softer Brexit would reflect the country's wishes far more - indeed that was the only mandate May really had 3 years ago. When we could have saved ourselves an awful lot of time and money and avoided these hugely damaging and binary divisions for something that always needed to move closer to consensus and away from hard extremes. | |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:56 - Oct 31 with 4162 views | Darth_Koont |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:42 - Oct 31 by chicoazul |
New offer or Remain, and Thornberry for one has said she would campaign for Remain. So she would help parley and form the new deal and then campaign against it. [Post edited 31 Oct 2019 13:44]
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Only someone who is really stupid (or more likely willfully obtuse) can't grasp the idea of looking for the best available deal and then deciding not to buy in the end.
I also think the public deserves to see a Brexit deal that isn't playing to the hard-right and hard of thinking of the Conservative Party. Especially if they're going to vote on it. | |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:19 - Oct 31 with 4111 views | chicoazul |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:56 - Oct 31 by Darth_Koont |
Only someone who is really stupid (or more likely willfully obtuse) can't grasp the idea of looking for the best available deal and then deciding not to buy in the end.
I also think the public deserves to see a Brexit deal that isn't playing to the hard-right and hard of thinking of the Conservative Party. Especially if they're going to vote on it. |
That sort of subtlety wont play with the electorate even if it didnt seem stupid in the first place because if Remain is better than any other deal why bother with any other deal? Campaign on what you believe is right in the first place or you seem insincere. | |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:25 - Oct 31 with 4096 views | Darth_Koont |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:19 - Oct 31 by chicoazul |
That sort of subtlety wont play with the electorate even if it didnt seem stupid in the first place because if Remain is better than any other deal why bother with any other deal? Campaign on what you believe is right in the first place or you seem insincere. |
But the time for Remain and revoking has gone. We've gone too far unless it's a People's Vote and then what deal is that put against?
Pushing a one-sided solution for what has been allowed to become a binary issue is even more stupid. | |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:33 - Oct 31 with 4059 views | chicoazul |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:25 - Oct 31 by Darth_Koont |
But the time for Remain and revoking has gone. We've gone too far unless it's a People's Vote and then what deal is that put against?
Pushing a one-sided solution for what has been allowed to become a binary issue is even more stupid. |
Binary issue? Weird sentiments from a Nat. | |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:37 - Oct 31 with 4050 views | Darth_Koont |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:33 - Oct 31 by chicoazul |
Binary issue? Weird sentiments from a Nat. |
I'd ask you to explain (plus the relevance) but I really don't care. | |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:39 - Oct 31 with 4041 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Lib Dem |  |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:41 - Oct 31 with 4021 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:27 - Oct 31 by Darth_Koont |
The investigation isn't into whether Corbyn is an antisemite or whether the party HAS BECOME institutionally antisemitic.
It's an investigation into how complaints are handled and whether there's any bias/interference/lack of process there that would mean it is by the definition of the EHRC is institutionally antisemitic. Whether Labour would have been deemed even more institutionally antisemitic before 2015 and before the Chakrabarti report is a reasonable question to ask.
But that's not really the main point. This investigation is a far cry from the casual assertions that the party is "riddled with antisemitism" (there's no credible evidence for that) or that Corbyn is an antisemite (ditto).
The tactic is take a little and accuse a lot. And a lot of people fall for it. Here thinking the problem is 300x worse than it actually is because largely of how much it's been kept in the news by engaged individuals and pressure groups:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/10/labour-party-antisemitism-claims-jeremy-corby
Are we going to see an election where dirty smears take precedence over discussing the real issues and tragedies facing the UK, its citizens and its minorities? |
Institutional racism was defined by Sir William Macpherson in the 1999 Lawrence report as: "The collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."
That is exactly what labour are being investigated for and you know it. Or perhaps, as you do with antisemitism, you would like to apply your own definition of what institutional racism means. |  |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:53 - Oct 31 with 3989 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:08 - Oct 31 by Ryorry |
As we're talking old cars, I had an army green Triumph Herald for my second year at Ipswich College in 1974. Imagine my shock a few months ago when strimming the grass at the top of our drive which is on a very, very minor lane out in the sticks in N. Yorkshire, and the exact same colour & model came swinging round the corner & onwards! Didn't have enough time to see the number plate, unfortunately! |
Getting back to cars, the coolest one I ever owned that worked was a Sweeny style Rover P6. |  |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:54 - Oct 31 with 3990 views | eireblue |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:41 - Oct 31 by GlasgowBlue |
Institutional racism was defined by Sir William Macpherson in the 1999 Lawrence report as: "The collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."
That is exactly what labour are being investigated for and you know it. Or perhaps, as you do with antisemitism, you would like to apply your own definition of what institutional racism means. |
I suppose rather than arguing about what Labour is being investigated for, and definitions, people could just look it up.
It is in the public domain.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/terms-of-reference-inves |  | | |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:58 - Oct 31 with 3964 views | Darth_Koont |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:41 - Oct 31 by GlasgowBlue |
Institutional racism was defined by Sir William Macpherson in the 1999 Lawrence report as: "The collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people."
That is exactly what labour are being investigated for and you know it. Or perhaps, as you do with antisemitism, you would like to apply your own definition of what institutional racism means. |
Yes, and they're examining the complaints process around antisemitism that has been heavily tarnished by the JLM's OWN involvement and obstruction.
It's a stretch to argue that the Labour Party actually discriminates against Jewish people given it was only recently that two Jewish brothers fought a leadership contest and there have been many Jewish MPs and councillors over the years. Even in 2017 Jewish MPs were over-represented based on population.
Read this by "the wrong kind of Jew", Antony Lerman, who addresses your Macpherson point directly:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/the-labour-party-institutional-
It's laughable how far short you are of what you want this investigation to mean and justify in the way of anti-Corbyn and anti-Labour attacks. "Riddled with antisemitism"? No. "Corbyn is an antisemite"? No.
And does it matter when just repeating accusations and assertions makes people think everything must be true? It's just lowest-of-the-low, smeary politicking. But I expect nothing more from you. | |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 14:59 - Oct 31 with 3959 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 12:55 - Oct 31 by BrixtonBlue |
There's a Labour policy forcing landlords to sell their rental properties to their tenants?! Sounds bizarre? There must be more to it than that. Have you got a link? |
Speaking as someone that rents off the landed gentry.....hmmmmm! | |
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| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 15:10 - Oct 31 with 3920 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Let's get it out there on the record then... on 13:41 - Oct 31 by itfcjoe |
I think it is quite clear - anyone who wants a softer Brexit, or even to remain needs to look at that and see that it makes sense.
The other option is effectively Boris' deal or a harder Brexit if the Tories get a majority |
It’s illogical - as any leverage in negotiating with the EU is immediately conceded by them knowing that the deal will be put to a vote against remain. Given that the EU ultimately want us to remain there is literally no incentive to negotiate a deal which would be remotely attractive to the UK electorate - in fact literally the opposite applies |  |
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