| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body 23:46 - Apr 23 with 11870 views | ElderGrizzly |
And told the media his main expert is wrong
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:50 - Apr 24 with 1402 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:28 - Apr 24 by Herbivore |
There is no good evidence to support the anti-vax position though, that's the issue. |
What is the anti-vax position exactly? Do this imaginary group all think exactly the same or is that just what the media want you to think? DO you have to be either Pro or Anti? What about the middle ground? Why is it that somebody like Robert F Kennedy Jnr is classed as an anti-vaxxer when he has gone on record as saying he is for vaccines but has studied the science and believes they could and should be safer.
There is plenty enough evidence for people to ask valid questions and challenge the industry narrative of 'safe and effective' like vaccines are a one size fits all solution for every person and that all vaccines are the same. When you see somebody close to you suffer as a result of a vaccine injury ( and I hope you never do ) then I promise you it changes your perspective. |  | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:03 - Apr 24 with 1374 views | DanTheMan |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:50 - Apr 24 by Harry_Palmer |
What is the anti-vax position exactly? Do this imaginary group all think exactly the same or is that just what the media want you to think? DO you have to be either Pro or Anti? What about the middle ground? Why is it that somebody like Robert F Kennedy Jnr is classed as an anti-vaxxer when he has gone on record as saying he is for vaccines but has studied the science and believes they could and should be safer.
There is plenty enough evidence for people to ask valid questions and challenge the industry narrative of 'safe and effective' like vaccines are a one size fits all solution for every person and that all vaccines are the same. When you see somebody close to you suffer as a result of a vaccine injury ( and I hope you never do ) then I promise you it changes your perspective. |
How come you're allowed to use Robert F Kennedy Jnr as a source of information because he's "studied" it, but Bill Gates is untrustworthy because he's not a scientist? |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:07 - Apr 24 with 1366 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 09:29 - Apr 24 by BlueBadger |
There's plenty of people out there stupid enough to believe talk of about 5G and not getting vaccinated, so why not this? |
Am expecting to hear of some of these in the coming days. Some good old boys hospitalised (or worse) for mainlining Distel. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:10 - Apr 24 with 1349 views | Herbivore |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:50 - Apr 24 by Harry_Palmer |
What is the anti-vax position exactly? Do this imaginary group all think exactly the same or is that just what the media want you to think? DO you have to be either Pro or Anti? What about the middle ground? Why is it that somebody like Robert F Kennedy Jnr is classed as an anti-vaxxer when he has gone on record as saying he is for vaccines but has studied the science and believes they could and should be safer.
There is plenty enough evidence for people to ask valid questions and challenge the industry narrative of 'safe and effective' like vaccines are a one size fits all solution for every person and that all vaccines are the same. When you see somebody close to you suffer as a result of a vaccine injury ( and I hope you never do ) then I promise you it changes your perspective. |
They are safe and effective by and large. Going for a walk is generally a safe and effective means of exercise, that doesn't mean it's entirely risk free. Nothing is entirely risk free. Anti-vax types tend to overplay the level of risk, often based on discredited science, to suggest that not getting vaccinated is a legitimate and evidence based decision. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:16 - Apr 24 with 1340 views | StokieBlue |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:17 - Apr 24 by Harry_Palmer |
Ever actually done any research on Vaccines Ewan? Ever read an insert, looked at the ingredients, read a study perhaps? Or are you just like most people and find it far easier to read what the media tell you and repeat it? It's so easy to throw around terms like 'anti-vaxxer' in ignorance and gain the approval of the heard isn't it. |
The problem is your entire argument is based on the fact that there is a minuscule chance of an adverse effect.
By that logic you probably shouldn't do anything at all. Even sitting at the computer carries a minuscule risk of something bad happening. An adverse reaction to a vaccine is a smaller percentage chance than dying in a car crash for instance (depending on time scales). Do you never ride or drive cars? It's a total misrepresentation of the risk. I do understand why because you said you had a personal case but this seems to obscure your analysis of the subject.
It's the fact that you focus on this risk and the damage it may cause (although I don't feel that is confirm from your sources thus far) rather than the huge benefits of vaccination for society as a whole.
Furthermore you don't want to ban vaccines, you are happy to take the benefits of herd immunity by allowing others to take what is an unacceptable risk. I find that position rather troublesome.
SB |  | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:20 - Apr 24 with 1329 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:29 - Apr 24 by factual_blue |
I think that, as a medical professional, BB accords people the respect they demonstrate that they deserve in discussions of medical matters. |
Sure, only this thread was about Trump being stupid which everyone agreed with in one way or another, only BB decided to jump onto my post trying to rekindle a debate from another day whilst actually getting me muddled up with Midastouch. Apart from that, yeah you are spot on. | | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:29 - Apr 24 with 1303 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:03 - Apr 24 by DanTheMan |
How come you're allowed to use Robert F Kennedy Jnr as a source of information because he's "studied" it, but Bill Gates is untrustworthy because he's not a scientist? |
I don't use him as a source of information. I am merely pointing out he is fundamentally pro-vaccine but has been painted as anti because he asks uncomfortable questions and highlights inconvenient science.
As for Bill Gates, he is by his own assessment a 'health expert' and is hugely influencing Government policy around the World despite having no qualifications whatsoever. If you are happy with that, then fine but personally I think it is worth questioning. | | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:34 - Apr 24 with 1290 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:16 - Apr 24 by StokieBlue |
The problem is your entire argument is based on the fact that there is a minuscule chance of an adverse effect.
By that logic you probably shouldn't do anything at all. Even sitting at the computer carries a minuscule risk of something bad happening. An adverse reaction to a vaccine is a smaller percentage chance than dying in a car crash for instance (depending on time scales). Do you never ride or drive cars? It's a total misrepresentation of the risk. I do understand why because you said you had a personal case but this seems to obscure your analysis of the subject.
It's the fact that you focus on this risk and the damage it may cause (although I don't feel that is confirm from your sources thus far) rather than the huge benefits of vaccination for society as a whole.
Furthermore you don't want to ban vaccines, you are happy to take the benefits of herd immunity by allowing others to take what is an unacceptable risk. I find that position rather troublesome.
SB |
That is not my position at all and much of your post is quite incorrect but I have no intention of wasting my time in trying to persuade you otherwise. I have already spent far longer on here today than I intended so I will leave you all to it. | | | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:35 - Apr 24 with 1286 views | manchego |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:50 - Apr 24 by Harry_Palmer |
What is the anti-vax position exactly? Do this imaginary group all think exactly the same or is that just what the media want you to think? DO you have to be either Pro or Anti? What about the middle ground? Why is it that somebody like Robert F Kennedy Jnr is classed as an anti-vaxxer when he has gone on record as saying he is for vaccines but has studied the science and believes they could and should be safer.
There is plenty enough evidence for people to ask valid questions and challenge the industry narrative of 'safe and effective' like vaccines are a one size fits all solution for every person and that all vaccines are the same. When you see somebody close to you suffer as a result of a vaccine injury ( and I hope you never do ) then I promise you it changes your perspective. |
https://measlesrubellainitiative.org/anti-vaccination-movement/
below are the responses you need.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/wp-agility2/measles/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Best-Pra [Post edited 24 Apr 2020 11:37]
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:45 - Apr 24 with 1261 views | FenboyBlue |
How much longer can Trump carry on with his demented speeches before someone - a journalist finally losing patience, a protester or just a random member of the public - confronts him to his face on camera and says something like "are you full of sh-t?", "do you have dementia?". It just goes on day after day. If someone asks him something slightly contentious he says "you're very rude" and then it ends. Aren't there even a few Americans prepared to have a proper go at him to his face ? He seems to have the entire country under a spell of resignation to putting up with him. |  | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:55 - Apr 24 with 1220 views | StokieBlue |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:34 - Apr 24 by Harry_Palmer |
That is not my position at all and much of your post is quite incorrect but I have no intention of wasting my time in trying to persuade you otherwise. I have already spent far longer on here today than I intended so I will leave you all to it. |
Fair enough, however given the posts directed towards you from other posters that seems to be the position which most people believe you have communicated.
When you have more time you can perhaps clarify your position.
SB | | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:10 - Apr 24 with 1186 views | Herbivore |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:55 - Apr 24 by StokieBlue |
Fair enough, however given the posts directed towards you from other posters that seems to be the position which most people believe you have communicated.
When you have more time you can perhaps clarify your position.
SB |
Indeed. If his position is that vaccines aren't 100% safe then I don't think he'll find many people disagreeing with that. If his position is that because they are not 100% safe then refusing vaccinations is an entirely legitimate position then that's the bit that people take issue with. 100% safety is a very high bar. You'd never leave the house if 100% safety was your test for doing anything. In fact you wouldn't be 100% safe in your home so you'd probably just be in a constant state of anxiety in a panic room. | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:21 - Apr 24 with 1167 views | Guthrum |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:45 - Apr 24 by FenboyBlue |
How much longer can Trump carry on with his demented speeches before someone - a journalist finally losing patience, a protester or just a random member of the public - confronts him to his face on camera and says something like "are you full of sh-t?", "do you have dementia?". It just goes on day after day. If someone asks him something slightly contentious he says "you're very rude" and then it ends. Aren't there even a few Americans prepared to have a proper go at him to his face ? He seems to have the entire country under a spell of resignation to putting up with him. |
He is the President. They don't have the same tradition as us of the Head of Government being fiercely challenged to their face upon everything (e.g. Prime Minister's Questions).
The British system is based upon a court of law, where everything is argued and up for debate. The French and US presidential systems are more akin to the principle of 17th and 18th century monarchy, a near-absolute ruler struggling with a much less powerful legislature below them, but whose approval is necessary to keep things flowing. Like those kings, you don't get the chance to attack them and their policies directly in person.
Apart from a few televised debates (which tend to be more about performance than fact) with Clinton, Trump has never actually had to stand up and defend his positions in the face of real, intensive questioning. I don't think he could do it. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:31 - Apr 24 with 1144 views | EdwardStone |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:21 - Apr 24 by Guthrum |
He is the President. They don't have the same tradition as us of the Head of Government being fiercely challenged to their face upon everything (e.g. Prime Minister's Questions).
The British system is based upon a court of law, where everything is argued and up for debate. The French and US presidential systems are more akin to the principle of 17th and 18th century monarchy, a near-absolute ruler struggling with a much less powerful legislature below them, but whose approval is necessary to keep things flowing. Like those kings, you don't get the chance to attack them and their policies directly in person.
Apart from a few televised debates (which tend to be more about performance than fact) with Clinton, Trump has never actually had to stand up and defend his positions in the face of real, intensive questioning. I don't think he could do it. |
It could be more interesting if the Democrats had selected a female candidate to stand against Big Orange. (No, not Hillary)
He doesn't like being challenged by anyone, but he really loses all his composure when challenged by a woman
The televised debates would have been a spectacle |  | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:34 - Apr 24 with 1132 views | Ryorry |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 05:24 - Apr 24 by SpruceMoose |
People need to start standing up and calling him out on his utter fückwittery in public, while he's standing there. Eye rolls off camera don't do shït |
I think she'd gone into shock as it dawned on her that as one of the medical doctors closest Trump, she might need to forcibly commit the #POTUS to a stay in a psychiatric hospital both for his own safety & that of others! |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:38 - Apr 24 with 1128 views | Guthrum |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:31 - Apr 24 by EdwardStone |
It could be more interesting if the Democrats had selected a female candidate to stand against Big Orange. (No, not Hillary)
He doesn't like being challenged by anyone, but he really loses all his composure when challenged by a woman
The televised debates would have been a spectacle |
Indeed. Clinton was simply too handicapped by her surname and her previous record in public office (which was open to attack, unlike Trump who didn't have one). | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:52 - Apr 24 with 1106 views | SpruceMoose |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 09:23 - Apr 24 by bluelagos |
Maybe he could do a Gummer and demonstrate for the cameras how safe it is?
*Prefer he did it to himself rather than his son. |
Depends which son... |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:53 - Apr 24 with 1107 views | LankHenners |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:38 - Apr 24 by Guthrum |
Indeed. Clinton was simply too handicapped by her surname and her previous record in public office (which was open to attack, unlike Trump who didn't have one). |
In hindsight, the result of that election was less of a shock than the reaction made it at the time. Clinton was a 'corporate' politician already disliked and distrusted, going up against an apparent outsider (though of course, Trump is about as establishment as you can get) who could speak to the disenfranchised and offer them a spark of hope, even if it was in the meaningless, jingoistic 'make America great again'.
Biden is that same 'corporate' politician which makes his position as the 'safe' choice in this election a risk, though he has a greater likability factor than Clinton and is up for election when the public has had 4 years of Trump in charge in a crisis he is handling atrociously to most right-thinking people. Although, his stance of America never being defeated by a foreign enemy plays well to his base, and his public suggestions of ways to combat it, however ludicrous, gives him a point to make that he was trying to fight it but other people were stopping him. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:03 - Apr 24 with 1087 views | SpruceMoose |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:31 - Apr 24 by EdwardStone |
It could be more interesting if the Democrats had selected a female candidate to stand against Big Orange. (No, not Hillary)
He doesn't like being challenged by anyone, but he really loses all his composure when challenged by a woman
The televised debates would have been a spectacle |
If Warren could had the chance to replicate how she utterly destroyed Bloomberg in the Dem debates in a debate against Trump then that would have been fun...
Bloomberg stood on stage with his face melting like the guy from Indiana Jones. Maybe she will end up getting to have a go on Mike Pence. [Post edited 24 Apr 2020 13:04]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:14 - Apr 24 with 1051 views | LankHenners |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:03 - Apr 24 by SpruceMoose |
If Warren could had the chance to replicate how she utterly destroyed Bloomberg in the Dem debates in a debate against Trump then that would have been fun...
Bloomberg stood on stage with his face melting like the guy from Indiana Jones. Maybe she will end up getting to have a go on Mike Pence. [Post edited 24 Apr 2020 13:04]
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Hypothetically, Warren would probably do better against Pence than Trump as Pence would be serious and 'grown-up' about it allowing a dismantling of him and his positions, whereas Trump would just call her Pocahontas over and over for which there is no recourse.
Bloomberg summed up a lot of what's wrong with America, and the world to an extent. He sunk a quarter of a billion of his own money into a campaign with the sole aim of disrupting the progress of a candidate who wanted him to give a fraction of that to a scheme which would mean poor people wouldn't die from preventable causes. | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:16 - Apr 24 with 1042 views | factual_blue |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:50 - Apr 24 by Harry_Palmer |
What is the anti-vax position exactly? Do this imaginary group all think exactly the same or is that just what the media want you to think? DO you have to be either Pro or Anti? What about the middle ground? Why is it that somebody like Robert F Kennedy Jnr is classed as an anti-vaxxer when he has gone on record as saying he is for vaccines but has studied the science and believes they could and should be safer.
There is plenty enough evidence for people to ask valid questions and challenge the industry narrative of 'safe and effective' like vaccines are a one size fits all solution for every person and that all vaccines are the same. When you see somebody close to you suffer as a result of a vaccine injury ( and I hope you never do ) then I promise you it changes your perspective. |
Whilst vaccine damage is a dreadful thing, here's some fact-based context.
Over ten billion doses of the oral polio vaccine have been administered since 2000. From those ten billion doses, fewer than 760 cases of damage (ie vaccine-derived polio) have arisen. See here
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/what-is-vaccine-derived-polio
The UK governments Vaccine Damage Scheme has paid out fewer than one thousand claims since 1978 (ie forty-two years) See here
https://fullfact.org/online/vaccine-damage-fund/
From that latter article
'Complications are significantly more likely to occur as a result of a child catching measles (1 in 5,000 children who catch it develop encephalitis), than as a result of a child being vaccinated (less than one in a million develop encephalitis as a result of the MMR vaccine).
Since a measles vaccine was introduced in the UK in 1968, Public Health England estimates that 20 million measles cases and 4,500 deaths have been averted in the UK, according to the Vaccine Knowledge Project at the University of Oxford.'
Nothing in life, or medicine is risk-free. The key is to understand the level of risk and what the consequences of a course of action are. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:25 - Apr 24 with 1022 views | SpruceMoose |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:14 - Apr 24 by LankHenners |
Hypothetically, Warren would probably do better against Pence than Trump as Pence would be serious and 'grown-up' about it allowing a dismantling of him and his positions, whereas Trump would just call her Pocahontas over and over for which there is no recourse.
Bloomberg summed up a lot of what's wrong with America, and the world to an extent. He sunk a quarter of a billion of his own money into a campaign with the sole aim of disrupting the progress of a candidate who wanted him to give a fraction of that to a scheme which would mean poor people wouldn't die from preventable causes. |
Spot on.
I don't think anyone can successfully debate Trump. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:27 - Apr 24 with 1016 views | BlueBadger |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:22 - Apr 24 by sparks |
This government already declines to be exposed to proper interview by the BBC on a regular basis. |
Which is weird really, given how they're supposed to be a Tory propaganda channel, according to some.. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:29 - Apr 24 with 1012 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:10 - Apr 24 by Herbivore |
Indeed. If his position is that vaccines aren't 100% safe then I don't think he'll find many people disagreeing with that. If his position is that because they are not 100% safe then refusing vaccinations is an entirely legitimate position then that's the bit that people take issue with. 100% safety is a very high bar. You'd never leave the house if 100% safety was your test for doing anything. In fact you wouldn't be 100% safe in your home so you'd probably just be in a constant state of anxiety in a panic room. |
Most season at least one fan has a heart attack watching Town. Perhaps we should all keep away. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:31 - Apr 24 with 1002 views | EdwardStone |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:25 - Apr 24 by SpruceMoose |
Spot on.
I don't think anyone can successfully debate Trump. |
And that is why I think that a female candidate would have been ideal..... he would be totally thrown off his stroke and just come across as an oaf, a belligerent loudmouth misogynist.
His hardcore support would have cheered him, but his softer support would, I imagine, have decided that he was too extreme | | | |
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