| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body 23:46 - Apr 23 with 11884 views | ElderGrizzly |
And told the media his main expert is wrong
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:59 - Apr 25 with 1245 views | m14_blue |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:37 - Apr 25 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s not a case of “lapping up the government’s account”.
I’ve always put my faith in the government, no matter which political persuasion, endeavours to do it’s best for the people of the country. I haven’t seen anything to make me change my mind during this crisis.
We live in a free and open democracy. The minutes if SAGE will be published in due course and everything I’ve heard when watching the likes of Whitty during the select committee meetings confirms that they are giving best advice from a consensus opinion and that the government are acting in that advice.
If they didn’t act on that advice then they should be brought to task for it. And I don’t believe that people like Whitty and Valance would put their professional reputations on the line on the say so of somebody like Dominic Cummings.
We can’t have people spending the last couple of years saying that the expert advice has been ignored and then the exact opposite when the advice doesn’t suit a particular point of view.
As for the point regarding the public’s trust in the media. I think our press have been too keen to look for a gotcha story rather than ask genuine sensible questions. This is reflected in a recent YouGov survey.
Edit. Ignore the first poll I can’t seem to link the second without the first one showing. [Post edited 25 Apr 2020 11:40]
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I wasn’t just talking about you.
We’ve seen several of the media articles criticising the government rebuffed by official statements that are little more than an eloquent way of shouting ‘fake news!’. These have then been presented as a fait accompli on here, and not by the usual government fanboys. I think faith in our institutions is deeply ingrained in our national psyche but this administration have ignored all the usual rules and shown themselves to be entirely undeserving of that faith.
They can’t control the BBC so have set out to systematically neuter it, now their erstwhile allies in the media are starting to question them too, they set out to erode public confidence in them.
God knows I have little regard for most of the British media but I would trust them over Cummings, Johnson et al all day long. |  | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:09 - Apr 25 with 1226 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:45 - Apr 25 by StokieBlue |
The weird thing about that poll is that not everyone trusts the NHS.
SB |
That's one weird thing but also on what basis do they trust Johnson and not trust Starmer?
Surely that just go to show how deep inherent political bias goes. Johnson has proven to tell untruths in the past and I am unaware of that being the case for Starmer but no trust the brave Tory PM and beware of the commie opposition. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:14 - Apr 25 with 1226 views | DanTheMan |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:54 - Apr 25 by GlasgowBlue |
Well I still do over issues of life and death and I think the shoddy Times story that unravelled within hours, the story that claimed the NHS was behind hundreds of fake Twitter accounts and Peston’s “gottcha” of Gove which he retracted the next day shows why the media isn’t trusted over this issue. [Post edited 25 Apr 2020 12:03]
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Slight correction, some of the Times article was unravelled but not all. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:21 - Apr 25 with 1217 views | itfcjoe |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:54 - Apr 25 by GlasgowBlue |
Well I still do over issues of life and death and I think the shoddy Times story that unravelled within hours, the story that claimed the NHS was behind hundreds of fake Twitter accounts and Peston’s “gottcha” of Gove which he retracted the next day shows why the media isn’t trusted over this issue. [Post edited 25 Apr 2020 12:03]
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The Times story wasn't shoddy, they subsequently released a podcast about it and a much more interesting listen than the 2000 word rebuttal which picks out certain points but leaves loads of key ones.
Wasn't the story about the NHS being behind Twitter accounts just some guy on Twitter investigating, I didn't really see it reported anywhere by anyone decent.
As always, the Times and The Guardian are generally the two papers that are more trustworthy depending on whether you veer to the right or the left. But the Government just going after the media to deflect away from the stories is being lapped up so they will continue to do so |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:23 - Apr 25 with 1202 views | sparks |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:54 - Apr 25 by GlasgowBlue |
Well I still do over issues of life and death and I think the shoddy Times story that unravelled within hours, the story that claimed the NHS was behind hundreds of fake Twitter accounts and Peston’s “gottcha” of Gove which he retracted the next day shows why the media isn’t trusted over this issue. [Post edited 25 Apr 2020 12:03]
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I am afraid I don't. This is a government that outright lied about what it was doing about prorogation. And then when people of skill knowledge and integrity reached a clear and reaosned decision about their behaviour, doubled down and encouraged the rabble that it was time to "do something" about independent judges.
Its a dangerous, dishonest, trumpesque slippery slope. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:24 - Apr 25 with 1196 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:21 - Apr 25 by itfcjoe |
The Times story wasn't shoddy, they subsequently released a podcast about it and a much more interesting listen than the 2000 word rebuttal which picks out certain points but leaves loads of key ones.
Wasn't the story about the NHS being behind Twitter accounts just some guy on Twitter investigating, I didn't really see it reported anywhere by anyone decent.
As always, the Times and The Guardian are generally the two papers that are more trustworthy depending on whether you veer to the right or the left. But the Government just going after the media to deflect away from the stories is being lapped up so they will continue to do so |
It is certainly telling that right wing media have been very critical of the Government.
However, I doubt they will be in election season unless they have very good cause to be indeed. It is far easier for them to be critical 4 years out from an election. | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:31 - Apr 25 with 1180 views | itfcjoe |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:23 - Apr 25 by sparks |
I am afraid I don't. This is a government that outright lied about what it was doing about prorogation. And then when people of skill knowledge and integrity reached a clear and reaosned decision about their behaviour, doubled down and encouraged the rabble that it was time to "do something" about independent judges.
Its a dangerous, dishonest, trumpesque slippery slope. |
Like you have said previously, it's all straight from the Trtump Playbook.
It buries the key parts of stories by having so much noise around the outside of them that they get lost and the wedge is driven further.
This story with Cummings, which says that he and another number 10 adviser are going to SAGE meetings, are taking part in them just has one detail on them picked up and negated - that he isn't 'on' the committee - and used that to ram home so nothing else is spoken about in it.
The likes of Sir Dave King's comments, which in any normal time would be absolutely massive, are just noise now. The story is gone, they get away with it, there is no one to scrutinise them. Same as the Sunday Times one, which was another big story with lots of detail in - they just said PM doesn't need to be at Cobra and that's the story gone.
At least PMQs is back, and Starmer can begin to - as this Govt needs to be scrutinised as they are proven to be untrustworthy.
And I'm sure, like me, you will continue to follow the advice given - this isn't anarchy, it's distrust
EDIT - And it's now building the Guardian story up to shoot it down, acting like it's trying to claim Cummings was able to overrule the meeting, to get everyone to agree to something they didn't want to and be in charge of it. Not just subtley influence things, be involved where he shouldnt, report back on the process to Boris with his own bias, rather than Boris just being guided by the agreed and authorised minutes and outcomes. It makes it sound ridiculous so that it can ridicule it, and the point of the story (Politics being involved in the 'independent' scientific process is lost) [Post edited 25 Apr 2020 12:45]
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:03 - Apr 25 with 1148 views | Ryorry |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:09 - Apr 25 by ElderGrizzly |
Turns out it gets worse.
He took the bleach advice from an ‘expert’ who he conversed with a few days earlier
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-leader-group-peddling-ble
In his letter, Mark Grenon told Trump that chlorine dioxide — a powerful bleach used in industrial processes such as textile manufacturing that can have fatal side-effects when drunk — is “a wonderful detox that can kill 99% of the pathogens in the body”. He added that it “can rid the body of Covid-19”. |
Well I suppose at least he's too stupid to have foreseen that pretending it was just "a joke" as soon as he became aware of the sh1tstorm reaction his idiotic words provoked, would make him look even more deranged & untrustworthy!
I wonder if even that'll be enough for his beloved redneck voters to actually see him for what he is. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 13:30 - Apr 25 with 1109 views | Herbivore |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:37 - Apr 25 by GlasgowBlue |
It’s not a case of “lapping up the government’s account”.
I’ve always put my faith in the government, no matter which political persuasion, endeavours to do it’s best for the people of the country. I haven’t seen anything to make me change my mind during this crisis.
We live in a free and open democracy. The minutes if SAGE will be published in due course and everything I’ve heard when watching the likes of Whitty during the select committee meetings confirms that they are giving best advice from a consensus opinion and that the government are acting in that advice.
If they didn’t act on that advice then they should be brought to task for it. And I don’t believe that people like Whitty and Valance would put their professional reputations on the line on the say so of somebody like Dominic Cummings.
We can’t have people spending the last couple of years saying that the expert advice has been ignored and then the exact opposite when the advice doesn’t suit a particular point of view.
As for the point regarding the public’s trust in the media. I think our press have been too keen to look for a gotcha story rather than ask genuine sensible questions. This is reflected in a recent YouGov survey.
Edit. Ignore the first poll I can’t seem to link the second without the first one showing. [Post edited 25 Apr 2020 11:40]
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This kind of blind faith in proven charlatans who have actively sought to undermine our democracy is rather troubling, Glassers. Remember the sleepwalking towards fascism worries a few of us had? Intelligent, middle class types viewing a government like this one as credible and acting in the public interest with minimal scrutiny is how we wind up there. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 23:51 - Apr 25 with 1042 views | midastouch |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 11:20 - Apr 24 by Harry_Palmer |
Sure, only this thread was about Trump being stupid which everyone agreed with in one way or another, only BB decided to jump onto my post trying to rekindle a debate from another day whilst actually getting me muddled up with Midastouch. Apart from that, yeah you are spot on. |
Wow, is all this still rumbling on? You are correct Harry, it was me that mentioned the book and not you. It seemed I committed the sin of saying I had read a book ( https://www.amazon.com/Millers-Review-Critical-Vaccine-Studies-ebook/dp/B07NQW27 which went against the mainstream and which (dare I say it!) had a good number of reviews (one of them had 460 reviews on Amazon.com site and was a 5 Star Rated book) but I was soon shot down in flames for even mentioning as much. In my defence, I stated I have no medical background and didn't pretend to be an expert in the area. I wasn't going to claim I was any sort of authority on the matter as how could I! They say pick your arguments wisely, well in this event I didn't.
My background is modern history, that's what I studied at university at least. Science and medicine are definitely not my strong hands, I'd be the first to admit. For reasons I won't trouble you with, I wasn't in the best place last week and as such I over reacted and took some of it a bit personally. However, as is so often the case, the first reaction is often the worst and I hold my hand up. However, I was big enough and man enough to apologise after and I even ended up having some nice PMs with people that I'd only been arguing with the day previous. That was fantastic.
Please everybody, as SB said the other day on the 'everybody needs a community' post, there's far more that unites us on here than divides us. We're all Ipswich fans for starters and we've suffered as one for a long time now as a result! Just because some of us might disagree on things like politics and vaccines, or whatever else, sometimes it's just best to forgive and forget.
"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." - Mahatma Gandhi
Thank you kindly to those of you that extended me nice PMs following any disagreements on here the other day. It was very kind of you and I sincerely appreciate it. Have a great weekend all. |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 04:53 - Apr 26 with 979 views | SpruceMoose |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 23:51 - Apr 25 by midastouch |
Wow, is all this still rumbling on? You are correct Harry, it was me that mentioned the book and not you. It seemed I committed the sin of saying I had read a book ( https://www.amazon.com/Millers-Review-Critical-Vaccine-Studies-ebook/dp/B07NQW27 which went against the mainstream and which (dare I say it!) had a good number of reviews (one of them had 460 reviews on Amazon.com site and was a 5 Star Rated book) but I was soon shot down in flames for even mentioning as much. In my defence, I stated I have no medical background and didn't pretend to be an expert in the area. I wasn't going to claim I was any sort of authority on the matter as how could I! They say pick your arguments wisely, well in this event I didn't.
My background is modern history, that's what I studied at university at least. Science and medicine are definitely not my strong hands, I'd be the first to admit. For reasons I won't trouble you with, I wasn't in the best place last week and as such I over reacted and took some of it a bit personally. However, as is so often the case, the first reaction is often the worst and I hold my hand up. However, I was big enough and man enough to apologise after and I even ended up having some nice PMs with people that I'd only been arguing with the day previous. That was fantastic.
Please everybody, as SB said the other day on the 'everybody needs a community' post, there's far more that unites us on here than divides us. We're all Ipswich fans for starters and we've suffered as one for a long time now as a result! Just because some of us might disagree on things like politics and vaccines, or whatever else, sometimes it's just best to forgive and forget.
"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." - Mahatma Gandhi
Thank you kindly to those of you that extended me nice PMs following any disagreements on here the other day. It was very kind of you and I sincerely appreciate it. Have a great weekend all. |
Paragraphs my man. Paragraphs. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 08:38 - Apr 26 with 932 views | itfcjoe |
Good, it is very important to do so. | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 08:42 - Apr 26 with 925 views | WeWereZombies |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 04:53 - Apr 26 by SpruceMoose |
Paragraphs my man. Paragraphs. |
There are paragraphs there, just not the line spacer between them. But those would improve the aesthetic appeal, wouldn't they? |  |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 09:27 - Apr 26 with 891 views | blueislander |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 08:42 - Apr 26 by WeWereZombies |
There are paragraphs there, just not the line spacer between them. But those would improve the aesthetic appeal, wouldn't they? |
I see that Trump has decided not to do any more press conferences. Apparently the media are being critical, and asking difficult questions. That’s leadership for you. | | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:31 - Apr 26 with 863 views | Herbivore |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 09:27 - Apr 26 by blueislander |
I see that Trump has decided not to do any more press conferences. Apparently the media are being critical, and asking difficult questions. That’s leadership for you. |
Hard for us to criticise, we elected a man who stole a journalist's phone, hid in a fridge, and ran away from Andrew Neil all in the name of avoiding any scrutiny. | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:15 - Apr 26 with 830 views | blueislander |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 10:31 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
Hard for us to criticise, we elected a man who stole a journalist's phone, hid in a fridge, and ran away from Andrew Neil all in the name of avoiding any scrutiny. |
Nice piece of whatabouterry . I am absolutely not a Boris fan , but Trump is far worse. | | | |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:26 - Apr 26 with 824 views | WeWereZombies |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:15 - Apr 26 by blueislander |
Nice piece of whatabouterry . I am absolutely not a Boris fan , but Trump is far worse. |
What exactly is 'whatabouterry' (other than a tactic for not directly answering a question)? It is worth exploring the United States and the United KIngdom political landscape to compare similarities and differences, more importantly to identify things that are going wrong. Because I think that Trump and Johnson are just the symptoms and it is more important to identify the causes; they are what disengages the voting public from representation and has us doing nothing more than saying, as the song goes, 'hooray for our side'. | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:27 - Apr 26 with 820 views | Herbivore |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:15 - Apr 26 by blueislander |
Nice piece of whatabouterry . I am absolutely not a Boris fan , but Trump is far worse. |
It's like comparing a slap in the face with a kick in the balls really though. Both aren't fit to lead, both can't stand up to any scrutiny. Two cheeks of the same arse really, Johnson just talks more well-educated gibberish than Trump. | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:39 - Apr 26 with 817 views | Ryorry |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:27 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
It's like comparing a slap in the face with a kick in the balls really though. Both aren't fit to lead, both can't stand up to any scrutiny. Two cheeks of the same arse really, Johnson just talks more well-educated gibberish than Trump. |
There's a difference for me in that Boris tries to come across as amiable because he psychologically needs/likes to be liked.
Trump doesn't care about that - he just wants to be popular in the polls because that = power. | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:44 - Apr 26 with 813 views | Ryorry |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:26 - Apr 26 by WeWereZombies |
What exactly is 'whatabouterry' (other than a tactic for not directly answering a question)? It is worth exploring the United States and the United KIngdom political landscape to compare similarities and differences, more importantly to identify things that are going wrong. Because I think that Trump and Johnson are just the symptoms and it is more important to identify the causes; they are what disengages the voting public from representation and has us doing nothing more than saying, as the song goes, 'hooray for our side'. |
"identify the causes"
Partly at least the cult of charisma? Not entirely down to the "celeb" era & digital media - Hitler managed it too. Arguably at its most susceptible point when economic conditions for large numbers of people are bad? | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:49 - Apr 26 with 807 views | Herbivore |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:39 - Apr 26 by Ryorry |
There's a difference for me in that Boris tries to come across as amiable because he psychologically needs/likes to be liked.
Trump doesn't care about that - he just wants to be popular in the polls because that = power. |
I think they both want to be liked by their base, it's just that the psyche of their base is a little different. In the US they like Trump's brazenness whereas in the UK some are a sucker for a plummy accent and ruffled hair. | |
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| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 16:28 - Apr 26 with 772 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Trump just suggested injecting disinfectant and UV light into the body on 12:49 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
I think they both want to be liked by their base, it's just that the psyche of their base is a little different. In the US they like Trump's brazenness whereas in the UK some are a sucker for a plummy accent and ruffled hair. |
...and some think that the classical references show that he is intelligent. In reality they just show that he has learned some classical reference points. |  |
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