| Any uni students feeling hard done by? 09:24 - Sep 8 with 10572 views | giant_stow |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54025181
My niece is wondering why she gets to pay 9 grand for online only too. Apparently her Uni has sent her an email pleading poverty as an explanation of why there'll be no fees reduction, but that doesn't wash when each year puts you 9 grand further into debt, aged 19. |  |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:32 - Sep 8 with 3653 views | peterleeblue |
Uni Fees was David Cameron's policy disaster / disgrace.
To increase fees from £3k to £9k with less than 18 months warning was totally unfair. In the end it did for Nick Clegg (if being vice president of Facebook) can be classed as done!
Its a minimum of c£45k to attend a 3 year uni degree and that does not include living costs etc. It must be nearer £60k. Compound that at 9% interest per year. Could be over £92k in 5 years if not able to find a job over £21.5k p.a. Insane debt to start life with. |  | | |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:33 - Sep 8 with 3653 views | The_Romford_Blue |
I think it’s an absolute joke tbh with you.
Last year cost 9k for my course personally for the second year when a major part of the second semester was online. But fair enough, they were reacting to a new unprecedented situation so having a month of nothingness and then eventually online just about seemed acceptable.
But this year, it’s the full 9k when at absolute most it’s a ‘hybrid’ year. And that’s not even for every course. Mine is ‘hybrid’ as some stuff for sports coaching has to be in person. There’s no alternative to the physical coaching aspect. The remainder will be online. For some courses such as business, it’s mostly online they say. I’m supposed to be doing my dissertation this year where research in person is required but am also being told that there’s nothing that can be done on that front until after Christmas. But the whole of second year we were being told that the research element should be completed by around November 2020 ish with the 10,000 words then starting straight after. In fact, we were made to decide our research questions back in February and submitted - with the research type in mind. Mine requires research amongst the university football team (which I’m in usually but the pandemic now suggests that the football team may not exist in the upcoming year) as well as from football teams at a higher level. But the latter research won’t be able to be performed now in the way that had previously been expected and encouraged. The former may not exist if the uni football team isn’t allowed to play matches. That won’t be known either until a later date. There is a plan to train in that time but that is with a hope for matches returning after Christmas.
All at the same cost as before. How can that possibly be fair?
Sorry for the rant. It’s just something that has annoyed me and this thread has come at the perfect time for it. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 9:38]
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:36 - Sep 8 with 3635 views | GlasgowBlue |
My daughter is in the same situation. Moved to London to attend uni and could be doing most of it online for the first term. But what’s the solution?
It’s one term out of 3 or 5 years and we are living in exceptional circumstances. Maybe the government could wipe some of the fees off at the end. It’s not something to panic about at the moment as they aren’t repayable for many more years and we have no idea how long this pandemic will last. Just live from day to day at the moment. |  |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:37 - Sep 8 with 3626 views | giant_stow |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:33 - Sep 8 by The_Romford_Blue |
I think it’s an absolute joke tbh with you.
Last year cost 9k for my course personally for the second year when a major part of the second semester was online. But fair enough, they were reacting to a new unprecedented situation so having a month of nothingness and then eventually online just about seemed acceptable.
But this year, it’s the full 9k when at absolute most it’s a ‘hybrid’ year. And that’s not even for every course. Mine is ‘hybrid’ as some stuff for sports coaching has to be in person. There’s no alternative to the physical coaching aspect. The remainder will be online. For some courses such as business, it’s mostly online they say. I’m supposed to be doing my dissertation this year where research in person is required but am also being told that there’s nothing that can be done on that front until after Christmas. But the whole of second year we were being told that the research element should be completed by around November 2020 ish with the 10,000 words then starting straight after. In fact, we were made to decide our research questions back in February and submitted - with the research type in mind. Mine requires research amongst the university football team (which I’m in usually but the pandemic now suggests that the football team may not exist in the upcoming year) as well as from football teams at a higher level. But the latter research won’t be able to be performed now in the way that had previously been expected and encouraged. The former may not exist if the uni football team isn’t allowed to play matches. That won’t be known either until a later date. There is a plan to train in that time but that is with a hope for matches returning after Christmas.
All at the same cost as before. How can that possibly be fair?
Sorry for the rant. It’s just something that has annoyed me and this thread has come at the perfect time for it. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 9:38]
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Get it out fella - I think its outrageous how you bods are being treated. With apologies to the Uni workers on here, it seems that right now, students are choiceless cannon fodder who's purpose is to keep unis and their staff ticking over. | |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:41 - Sep 8 with 3601 views | giant_stow |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:36 - Sep 8 by GlasgowBlue |
My daughter is in the same situation. Moved to London to attend uni and could be doing most of it online for the first term. But what’s the solution?
It’s one term out of 3 or 5 years and we are living in exceptional circumstances. Maybe the government could wipe some of the fees off at the end. It’s not something to panic about at the moment as they aren’t repayable for many more years and we have no idea how long this pandemic will last. Just live from day to day at the moment. |
I hope this is something that can be redressed in time, perhaps when the dust settles. The article mentions there being many more students to cater for as a result of the A-levels fix, so why can't that extra income (in institutions where it exists) be used to reduce fees? Surely a zoom class can be taught be one tutor to 15 students or 25 just as easily? And what about basic fairness of getting what you paid for?
Just seems like yet another example of the young being screwed by older generations. | |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:43 - Sep 8 with 3595 views | clive_baker |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:32 - Sep 8 by peterleeblue |
Uni Fees was David Cameron's policy disaster / disgrace.
To increase fees from £3k to £9k with less than 18 months warning was totally unfair. In the end it did for Nick Clegg (if being vice president of Facebook) can be classed as done!
Its a minimum of c£45k to attend a 3 year uni degree and that does not include living costs etc. It must be nearer £60k. Compound that at 9% interest per year. Could be over £92k in 5 years if not able to find a job over £21.5k p.a. Insane debt to start life with. |
Lad who works for me, mid 20's came out of Cardiff Uni with his economics degree and £70k of debt. C. 50% fees and 50% living expenses.
He pays something like £150 a month back, which feels like a long old slog when he's talking about such a ridiculous amount of debt.
I was the last year to get away with paying £1,250 in fees, which in hindsight I probably didn't appreciate quite enough what excellent value that was. |  |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:48 - Sep 8 with 3573 views | Herbivore |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:37 - Sep 8 by giant_stow |
Get it out fella - I think its outrageous how you bods are being treated. With apologies to the Uni workers on here, it seems that right now, students are choiceless cannon fodder who's purpose is to keep unis and their staff ticking over. |
Do you know how much work it is to turn a face to face module into an online module? Lecturers have been working flat out over the summer to make sure that they can actually teach students next year. It's not the universities' fault that we're in the middle of a pandemic and they are doing their utmost to make sure the learning experience is as good as it can possibly be. Having delivered online teaching already I can say that it can easily work just as well as face to face teaching.
Hopefully it'll only be one or two terms where there can't be significant levels of face to face teaching. In the meantime I don't see how you can expect universities - whose income is taking a big hit due to lack of international students - to reimburse students when they will be getting at least as much teaching time, in many cases more, through alternative delivery. |  |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:54 - Sep 8 with 3547 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:48 - Sep 8 by Herbivore |
Do you know how much work it is to turn a face to face module into an online module? Lecturers have been working flat out over the summer to make sure that they can actually teach students next year. It's not the universities' fault that we're in the middle of a pandemic and they are doing their utmost to make sure the learning experience is as good as it can possibly be. Having delivered online teaching already I can say that it can easily work just as well as face to face teaching.
Hopefully it'll only be one or two terms where there can't be significant levels of face to face teaching. In the meantime I don't see how you can expect universities - whose income is taking a big hit due to lack of international students - to reimburse students when they will be getting at least as much teaching time, in many cases more, through alternative delivery. |
Technically I lost a months teaching time in late March to late April with the time it took to set up online teaching. That month was a month of no teaching in any format whatsoever. But yet still no mention of money off which does seem unfair. But again, it was a new situation I’m prepared to let it go.
This year being full cost seems crazy though. | |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:56 - Sep 8 with 3530 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:37 - Sep 8 by giant_stow |
Get it out fella - I think its outrageous how you bods are being treated. With apologies to the Uni workers on here, it seems that right now, students are choiceless cannon fodder who's purpose is to keep unis and their staff ticking over. |
Yes and no. Yes because the fees are important to Unis finances* - that’s the business model decided by the government. No because the staff are working extra hard to ensure that the same materials will be taught (in the vast majority of cases), so the ‘service’ is essentially the same. It’s the experience that will be different. Varies by Uni though - our students are coming back on campus and will have face to face teaching if they want it, online if not (so double work preparing for blended learning and also duplicating lectures/practicals due to social distancing).
I totally agree it’s a disgrace we’ve commoditised students though - our fees are by far the highest in Europe, Scottish situation aside, but there’s nothing the Universities can do about that.
*students aren’t enough to offset the costs of coronavirus; a medium sized uni will be losing about £20-30 million because of the pandemic. |  |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:59 - Sep 8 with 3517 views | Sharkey |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:54 - Sep 8 by The_Romford_Blue |
Technically I lost a months teaching time in late March to late April with the time it took to set up online teaching. That month was a month of no teaching in any format whatsoever. But yet still no mention of money off which does seem unfair. But again, it was a new situation I’m prepared to let it go.
This year being full cost seems crazy though. |
I found the switch to Zoom with existing students easy enough, as they were helpful and supportive of each other, and tolerant of any technical teething problems.
But with new students, i think the challenges for the teacher are far greater, especially if students won't even show their face (in Zoom.)
I'm very glad that 95% of my students, being Europeans, pay no fees. I think full fees in the UK is very difficult to justify. |  | | |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:59 - Sep 8 with 3517 views | Herbivore |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:54 - Sep 8 by The_Romford_Blue |
Technically I lost a months teaching time in late March to late April with the time it took to set up online teaching. That month was a month of no teaching in any format whatsoever. But yet still no mention of money off which does seem unfair. But again, it was a new situation I’m prepared to let it go.
This year being full cost seems crazy though. |
If you're getting the same amount of input this year from lecturers why should it be cheaper? The delivery method has had to change because of the pandemic and the restrictions that come with it, that doesn't mean you're getting less it's just a different method of delivery.
I feel for students who have paid for accommodation only to be told their modules will all be online this term, although if it was me I'd still want to be with my uni mates and able to access the library and so on. | |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:00 - Sep 8 with 3514 views | longtimefan |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:43 - Sep 8 by clive_baker |
Lad who works for me, mid 20's came out of Cardiff Uni with his economics degree and £70k of debt. C. 50% fees and 50% living expenses.
He pays something like £150 a month back, which feels like a long old slog when he's talking about such a ridiculous amount of debt.
I was the last year to get away with paying £1,250 in fees, which in hindsight I probably didn't appreciate quite enough what excellent value that was. |
As you’re only paying 9% of income over the start threshold (somewhere in the low to mid 20K) I suspect most people will never pay it off fully as it’s written off after 30 years.
My son is just about to start his second year. He was able to attend remotely for his last term and the Uni didn’t charge for accommodation if he’d handed his key in prior to the term start. They’ve changed the rules this year though so you pay the accommodation fees regardless  |  | | |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:00 - Sep 8 with 3511 views | Basuco |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:43 - Sep 8 by clive_baker |
Lad who works for me, mid 20's came out of Cardiff Uni with his economics degree and £70k of debt. C. 50% fees and 50% living expenses.
He pays something like £150 a month back, which feels like a long old slog when he's talking about such a ridiculous amount of debt.
I was the last year to get away with paying £1,250 in fees, which in hindsight I probably didn't appreciate quite enough what excellent value that was. |
At that rate he will be debt free in 467 years. |  | | |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:05 - Sep 8 with 3501 views | giant_stow |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:48 - Sep 8 by Herbivore |
Do you know how much work it is to turn a face to face module into an online module? Lecturers have been working flat out over the summer to make sure that they can actually teach students next year. It's not the universities' fault that we're in the middle of a pandemic and they are doing their utmost to make sure the learning experience is as good as it can possibly be. Having delivered online teaching already I can say that it can easily work just as well as face to face teaching.
Hopefully it'll only be one or two terms where there can't be significant levels of face to face teaching. In the meantime I don't see how you can expect universities - whose income is taking a big hit due to lack of international students - to reimburse students when they will be getting at least as much teaching time, in many cases more, through alternative delivery. |
I can imagine its been very tough for lecturers and can see you're writing with passion. The pandemic's not lecturers' fault, but neither is it the fault of students and I would ask who on the whole is in a better position to take the hit? Unis or students?
Zoom stuff isn't ideal for anyone - meetings are harder work and presentations in all sectors have to be reworked - imo, they can never match the face to face experience, but we're stuck with them. Again no one's fault, but why should those at the bottom pick up the tab?
I really feel for students right now - their experience of Uni is taking a massive hit and they're not getting what they paid for, so regardless of missing international students, how's it fair to expect UK students to pay for something they're not getting? | |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:12 - Sep 8 with 3478 views | giant_stow |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:56 - Sep 8 by Swansea_Blue |
Yes and no. Yes because the fees are important to Unis finances* - that’s the business model decided by the government. No because the staff are working extra hard to ensure that the same materials will be taught (in the vast majority of cases), so the ‘service’ is essentially the same. It’s the experience that will be different. Varies by Uni though - our students are coming back on campus and will have face to face teaching if they want it, online if not (so double work preparing for blended learning and also duplicating lectures/practicals due to social distancing).
I totally agree it’s a disgrace we’ve commoditised students though - our fees are by far the highest in Europe, Scottish situation aside, but there’s nothing the Universities can do about that.
*students aren’t enough to offset the costs of coronavirus; a medium sized uni will be losing about £20-30 million because of the pandemic. |
Good to see your one gives them the choice of face to face. I can;t see how the experience of a zoom lesson is more or less the same though. Surely students pay for the holistic experience of attending uni, being with their fellow learners on campus, at the library or in the canteen / bar too? | |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:14 - Sep 8 with 3471 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:43 - Sep 8 by clive_baker |
Lad who works for me, mid 20's came out of Cardiff Uni with his economics degree and £70k of debt. C. 50% fees and 50% living expenses.
He pays something like £150 a month back, which feels like a long old slog when he's talking about such a ridiculous amount of debt.
I was the last year to get away with paying £1,250 in fees, which in hindsight I probably didn't appreciate quite enough what excellent value that was. |
To be paying back £150 a month you would need to be earning around £45,000 a year. Think you need to lend him a hankie. |  |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:17 - Sep 8 with 3461 views | gordon |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:48 - Sep 8 by Herbivore |
Do you know how much work it is to turn a face to face module into an online module? Lecturers have been working flat out over the summer to make sure that they can actually teach students next year. It's not the universities' fault that we're in the middle of a pandemic and they are doing their utmost to make sure the learning experience is as good as it can possibly be. Having delivered online teaching already I can say that it can easily work just as well as face to face teaching.
Hopefully it'll only be one or two terms where there can't be significant levels of face to face teaching. In the meantime I don't see how you can expect universities - whose income is taking a big hit due to lack of international students - to reimburse students when they will be getting at least as much teaching time, in many cases more, through alternative delivery. |
Agree with all that in terms of fees for tuition - difficult to see how fees could be reduced. The issue where I am will be that we're telling students to come back to residential colleges and promising them that societies, union stuff, events etc., will be going ahead, when the reality is going to be very different.
The university would of course lose an awful lot of money if it didn't fill up the colleges, but to me that isn't really a justification for misleading students. |  | | |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:30 - Sep 8 with 3416 views | dickie |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:00 - Sep 8 by longtimefan |
As you’re only paying 9% of income over the start threshold (somewhere in the low to mid 20K) I suspect most people will never pay it off fully as it’s written off after 30 years.
My son is just about to start his second year. He was able to attend remotely for his last term and the Uni didn’t charge for accommodation if he’d handed his key in prior to the term start. They’ve changed the rules this year though so you pay the accommodation fees regardless |
This is a bubble that is going to burst eventually and has been incredibly short sighted by successive governments (even more so since the increase to 9k). Many if not most will never pay back all their fees and when it's wiped off for people after 30 years (myself included) that debt won't disappear. | | | |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:31 - Sep 8 with 3411 views | Bluefish |
I used to have 5 unis as customers in my old job each with a strong 6 figure annual spend. It became a running joke that I would present them simple cost savings and they wouldn't implement them because money wasn't important. A simple rule change was not worth a decent saving because it would mean requesting something different from the lecturers. I once paid to uber one of them from London to Lincoln because they went mental over something trivial and it made more sense to just have them driven home |  |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:33 - Sep 8 with 3400 views | Herbivore |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:05 - Sep 8 by giant_stow |
I can imagine its been very tough for lecturers and can see you're writing with passion. The pandemic's not lecturers' fault, but neither is it the fault of students and I would ask who on the whole is in a better position to take the hit? Unis or students?
Zoom stuff isn't ideal for anyone - meetings are harder work and presentations in all sectors have to be reworked - imo, they can never match the face to face experience, but we're stuck with them. Again no one's fault, but why should those at the bottom pick up the tab?
I really feel for students right now - their experience of Uni is taking a massive hit and they're not getting what they paid for, so regardless of missing international students, how's it fair to expect UK students to pay for something they're not getting? |
Students as it goes, since without fees unis will go bust whereas students don't even start repaying their fees immediately and won't do so until they're earning over a certain amount. By all means take issue with the way that unis are funded, take issue with fees being ridiculously high, but they are what they are and that's kit down to universities. If you think that universities - other than the likes of Oxbridge - can reimburse students a chunk of their fees for this year then you're very much mistaken. They don't have the money to do so.
I'm not sure what you think students are not getting exactly? In many cases they are getting more input from lecturers through increased formative feedback and lecturers being more available for asynchronous class discussions. If it's the social experience of being on campus amongst their peers, that's just the way things are right now. Students have the option to defer or intercalate for a year if that is what's most important to them. The role of universities is to provide a learning experience for the students and they are continuing to do that.
Everyone is having to adjust to doing things differently in the short to medium term, we can't all expect to be compensated for things being done virtually rather than face to face for the time being. | |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:36 - Sep 8 with 3386 views | Herbivore |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:17 - Sep 8 by gordon |
Agree with all that in terms of fees for tuition - difficult to see how fees could be reduced. The issue where I am will be that we're telling students to come back to residential colleges and promising them that societies, union stuff, events etc., will be going ahead, when the reality is going to be very different.
The university would of course lose an awful lot of money if it didn't fill up the colleges, but to me that isn't really a justification for misleading students. |
I agree with that aspect of it. There should be honesty about how much on campus activity there will be so students can choose whether to physically come to the university or not. I know at the uni I am currently at that the library and catering facilities are open, the bar will be too at reduced capacity. It will be a very different experience to normal though. | |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:42 - Sep 8 with 3357 views | eireblue |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:36 - Sep 8 by GlasgowBlue |
My daughter is in the same situation. Moved to London to attend uni and could be doing most of it online for the first term. But what’s the solution?
It’s one term out of 3 or 5 years and we are living in exceptional circumstances. Maybe the government could wipe some of the fees off at the end. It’s not something to panic about at the moment as they aren’t repayable for many more years and we have no idea how long this pandemic will last. Just live from day to day at the moment. |
I like this side of GB.
Look, some bad sh1t has gone down, don’t worry about it, we will pay for it later. |  | | |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:46 - Sep 8 with 3337 views | lowhouseblue |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 09:48 - Sep 8 by Herbivore |
Do you know how much work it is to turn a face to face module into an online module? Lecturers have been working flat out over the summer to make sure that they can actually teach students next year. It's not the universities' fault that we're in the middle of a pandemic and they are doing their utmost to make sure the learning experience is as good as it can possibly be. Having delivered online teaching already I can say that it can easily work just as well as face to face teaching.
Hopefully it'll only be one or two terms where there can't be significant levels of face to face teaching. In the meantime I don't see how you can expect universities - whose income is taking a big hit due to lack of international students - to reimburse students when they will be getting at least as much teaching time, in many cases more, through alternative delivery. |
university costs haven't fallen at all with the move to online lectures. some universities are still doing all other forms of teaching in person - it's just the big groups that can't be covid secure. labs and dissecting rooms are the real challenge - but they're being made to work. i'm not convinced that in terms of course content or teaching intensity a lot of universities will be delivering less than in a normal year. it's the social side of university which is shot.
in terms of fees, the problem is having a funding system that works for elite higher education applied to a system in which 50% go to university. the expansion of the university system to lots of people who'd get a bigger benefit from studying different things in different ways and not spending £9k a year simply hasn't worked. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 10:47]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:49 - Sep 8 with 3306 views | hampstead_blue |
Modern Apprenticeship may be a solution.
My eldest boys did it and are loving it, as soldiers.
I know some things need a degree but surely there must be another way of getting qualified whilst earning? |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:53 - Sep 8 with 3299 views | jamesitfc |
| Any uni students feeling hard done by? on 10:46 - Sep 8 by lowhouseblue |
university costs haven't fallen at all with the move to online lectures. some universities are still doing all other forms of teaching in person - it's just the big groups that can't be covid secure. labs and dissecting rooms are the real challenge - but they're being made to work. i'm not convinced that in terms of course content or teaching intensity a lot of universities will be delivering less than in a normal year. it's the social side of university which is shot.
in terms of fees, the problem is having a funding system that works for elite higher education applied to a system in which 50% go to university. the expansion of the university system to lots of people who'd get a bigger benefit from studying different things in different ways and not spending £9k a year simply hasn't worked. [Post edited 8 Sep 2020 10:47]
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I was in the first year of students that had to pay £9000 instead of £3000 and it's a bit of a sore point. That being said - I don't care one jot about the uni fees. These are funded by the government and I'll only pay it off in a well paying job. If I stop work - I don't pay. After 30 years, it all gets wiped off if I haven't paid it off.
Yes, it frustrates me to know that I have a negative balance of circa £50k but students pretty much just pay an additional tax (9% of everything over £25k ish) as a result of a job paying above that - meaning they have done really well. |  | | |
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