Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement 09:31 - Sep 16 with 62549 views | Barneycurley | and not be considered a racist? | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:33 - Sep 16 with 5332 views | itfcjoe | Of course, but if you disagree with the message it's very difficult to square that with not being racist | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:33 - Sep 16 with 5323 views | TRUE_BLUE123 | I think the official twitter account and the some of the people who run it are questionable people. Are you talking about the official organisation or the message of the movement | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:38 - Sep 16 with 5287 views | Barneycurley |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:33 - Sep 16 by TRUE_BLUE123 | I think the official twitter account and the some of the people who run it are questionable people. Are you talking about the official organisation or the message of the movement |
The people that run it and possibly some of those that follow all they put out blindly. They seem thoroughly divisive to me yet anyone that speaks Ill is condemned. Just interested to know how it puts someone thst disagrees with a lot they stand for or indeed turn a blind eye too? | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:40 - Sep 16 with 5278 views | homer_123 |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:38 - Sep 16 by Barneycurley | The people that run it and possibly some of those that follow all they put out blindly. They seem thoroughly divisive to me yet anyone that speaks Ill is condemned. Just interested to know how it puts someone thst disagrees with a lot they stand for or indeed turn a blind eye too? |
Joe's right - perfectly OK to have a different view on 'how' they might go about it. But to disagree with the overall message.... | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:44 - Sep 16 with 5244 views | BlueBadger | Which part of the founding principle 'stop disproportionally killing/mistreating people over their skin colour' do you find objectionable? | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:45 - Sep 16 with 5231 views | BlueBadger |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:40 - Sep 16 by homer_123 | Joe's right - perfectly OK to have a different view on 'how' they might go about it. But to disagree with the overall message.... |
I liked it last week when the same people who complained about 'violent' protests also complained when footballers kneel or a dance troupe do something. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 13:57]
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:46 - Sep 16 with 5224 views | SomethingBlue |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:38 - Sep 16 by Barneycurley | The people that run it and possibly some of those that follow all they put out blindly. They seem thoroughly divisive to me yet anyone that speaks Ill is condemned. Just interested to know how it puts someone thst disagrees with a lot they stand for or indeed turn a blind eye too? |
They do divide the racists and non-racists, yes. (And I am not calling you either of those things, not knowing exactly where you are coming from on this) | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:46 - Sep 16 with 5215 views | DanTheMan |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:45 - Sep 16 by BlueBadger | I liked it last week when the same people who complained about 'violent' protests also complained when footballers kneel or a dance troupe do something. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 13:57]
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The only acceptable protest to some people is one that can be entirely ignored, thereby making the protest itself completely redundant. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:48 - Sep 16 with 5201 views | Swansea_Blue | Depends on whether the ad hominem attacks on people at the centre of the organisation/movement are a thinly veiled Trojan Horse attack on the overall aims of BLM. In many cases they seem to be. Eradicating racism far overweighs any dubious behaviour from individuals imo - there's already a judiciary system in place to deal with any wrong doings. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:49 - Sep 16 with 5184 views | Barneycurley |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:40 - Sep 16 by homer_123 | Joe's right - perfectly OK to have a different view on 'how' they might go about it. But to disagree with the overall message.... |
No I am definitely talking about them as a movement. No normal sane person would support the obvious demeaning, and discriminating of people that are just of a different coloured skin, that's surely a given. But they've in my eyes become all that's bad in the fight for the end to discrimination. Extreme and anti establishment is what I see and yes its possibly the minority that chase police down streets in London intimidating them but its also the minority of police that put pressure on peoples necks ending in their deaths. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:50 - Sep 16 with 5177 views | usm | As the Board's unofficial racist I am qualified to answer this question and the answer is No, not on here. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:52 - Sep 16 with 5152 views | BlueBadger |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:38 - Sep 16 by Barneycurley | The people that run it and possibly some of those that follow all they put out blindly. They seem thoroughly divisive to me yet anyone that speaks Ill is condemned. Just interested to know how it puts someone thst disagrees with a lot they stand for or indeed turn a blind eye too? |
Smacks a little of 'play the ball not the man', TBH. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:52 - Sep 16 with 5153 views | BlueBadger |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:50 - Sep 16 by usm | As the Board's unofficial racist I am qualified to answer this question and the answer is No, not on here. |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:55 - Sep 16 with 5134 views | giant_stow | Isn't it important to make a distinction between the movement and the people who run the twitter account (which I gather can stray into other political areas)? | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:57 - Sep 16 with 5124 views | tractordownsouth | It's absolutely fine to disagree with the rioting, as well as their additional policies such as abolishing capitalism. But if you disagree with Black Lives Matter as a statement, then yes you are a racist. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:58 - Sep 16 with 5113 views | BlueBadger |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:49 - Sep 16 by Barneycurley | No I am definitely talking about them as a movement. No normal sane person would support the obvious demeaning, and discriminating of people that are just of a different coloured skin, that's surely a given. But they've in my eyes become all that's bad in the fight for the end to discrimination. Extreme and anti establishment is what I see and yes its possibly the minority that chase police down streets in London intimidating them but its also the minority of police that put pressure on peoples necks ending in their deaths. |
So, what you're saying is that perhaps you shouldn't judge the actions of a wider group by the actions of a tiny minority? | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:03 - Sep 16 with 5087 views | Herbivore |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:49 - Sep 16 by Barneycurley | No I am definitely talking about them as a movement. No normal sane person would support the obvious demeaning, and discriminating of people that are just of a different coloured skin, that's surely a given. But they've in my eyes become all that's bad in the fight for the end to discrimination. Extreme and anti establishment is what I see and yes its possibly the minority that chase police down streets in London intimidating them but its also the minority of police that put pressure on peoples necks ending in their deaths. |
Genuine question, when the system is rigged against people of colour and perpetuates the ongoing unequal treatment of people of colour and the establishment is there to maintain and protect such a system, why would committed anti-racists be anything other than anti-establishment? I've been through this before but I'll go there again. Racism is not just some knuckle dragger making monkey noises at a Black footballer. It's not even just Black people being proportionately WAY more likely to be pulled over or stopped and searched by the police. Racism is also that, within developed nations and across the world, people of colour are far more likely to be living in poverty. They are far less likely to access private education or get into Oxbridge, in the UK context. They are under-represented in highly paid executive roles. Making individuals aware of their own behaviour won't change those things. Capitalism as a system is based on inequality and our political institutions are set up to essentially maintain those inequalities. Committed anti-racists have every right to be anti-capitalists, in fact it's the only logical position to take. If that makes you uncomfortable you are probably more concerned about maintaining a society that fundamentally treats people of colour worse than white people than you are about bringing about genuine equality for people of colour. Whether that makes you a racist or not is a rather nuanced issue, but it probably means you aren't really all that committed to combating racism in anything other than a lip service way. It then becomes a question of whether, if you don't really support anti-racism, you are actually tacitly supporting racism. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:04 - Sep 16 with 5077 views | Barneycurley |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 09:55 - Sep 16 by giant_stow | Isn't it important to make a distinction between the movement and the people who run the twitter account (which I gather can stray into other political areas)? |
Well my take on say just the football side of things. The FA have successfully run the kick it out campaign. It was a well delivered and thought out message supported by all. It wasn't extreme or support anti establishment acts it was there to drive out racists that have poisoned the game. I saw very few people that disagreed with the message and campaign apart from those dyed in the wool racists. So can we not run anti racist campaigns without the need to support the extreme BLM activists? | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:07 - Sep 16 with 5057 views | Barneycurley |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:03 - Sep 16 by Herbivore | Genuine question, when the system is rigged against people of colour and perpetuates the ongoing unequal treatment of people of colour and the establishment is there to maintain and protect such a system, why would committed anti-racists be anything other than anti-establishment? I've been through this before but I'll go there again. Racism is not just some knuckle dragger making monkey noises at a Black footballer. It's not even just Black people being proportionately WAY more likely to be pulled over or stopped and searched by the police. Racism is also that, within developed nations and across the world, people of colour are far more likely to be living in poverty. They are far less likely to access private education or get into Oxbridge, in the UK context. They are under-represented in highly paid executive roles. Making individuals aware of their own behaviour won't change those things. Capitalism as a system is based on inequality and our political institutions are set up to essentially maintain those inequalities. Committed anti-racists have every right to be anti-capitalists, in fact it's the only logical position to take. If that makes you uncomfortable you are probably more concerned about maintaining a society that fundamentally treats people of colour worse than white people than you are about bringing about genuine equality for people of colour. Whether that makes you a racist or not is a rather nuanced issue, but it probably means you aren't really all that committed to combating racism in anything other than a lip service way. It then becomes a question of whether, if you don't really support anti-racism, you are actually tacitly supporting racism. |
it doesn't make me uncomfortable at all I dared asked the question that could someone disagree with the BLM movement (quite clear there) and not be considered a racist. From some of the obvious undertones of the replies the replies the answer appears to be no. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 10:07]
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:07 - Sep 16 with 5060 views | Herbivore |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:04 - Sep 16 by Barneycurley | Well my take on say just the football side of things. The FA have successfully run the kick it out campaign. It was a well delivered and thought out message supported by all. It wasn't extreme or support anti establishment acts it was there to drive out racists that have poisoned the game. I saw very few people that disagreed with the message and campaign apart from those dyed in the wool racists. So can we not run anti racist campaigns without the need to support the extreme BLM activists? |
Kick it Out was limited to racism within football, not racism within society as a while. And it's arguable how successful it's been given that racism has not been eradicated from football. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:09 - Sep 16 with 5043 views | Herbivore |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:07 - Sep 16 by Barneycurley | it doesn't make me uncomfortable at all I dared asked the question that could someone disagree with the BLM movement (quite clear there) and not be considered a racist. From some of the obvious undertones of the replies the replies the answer appears to be no. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 10:07]
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BLM being anti-establishment and anti-capitalist doesn't make you uncomfortable? Then why have you spoken out against the BLM movement being anti-establishment in this very thread? | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:11 - Sep 16 with 5037 views | Barneycurley |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:07 - Sep 16 by Herbivore | Kick it Out was limited to racism within football, not racism within society as a while. And it's arguable how successful it's been given that racism has not been eradicated from football. |
No, I stated that as example in the football in the UK the kick it out campaign was to eradicate racism in the game starting in the UK. So I was talking about footballs response to racism not the wider worlds response even in just sport. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:17 - Sep 16 with 5003 views | giant_stow |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:09 - Sep 16 by Herbivore | BLM being anti-establishment and anti-capitalist doesn't make you uncomfortable? Then why have you spoken out against the BLM movement being anti-establishment in this very thread? |
I didn't realise BLM is an explicity anti-establishment and anti-capitalist group. For me that makes it harder for them to succeed. They'd have more chance of 'winning' with a simpler goal which more people could get behind. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:20 - Sep 16 with 4977 views | Herbivore |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:17 - Sep 16 by giant_stow | I didn't realise BLM is an explicity anti-establishment and anti-capitalist group. For me that makes it harder for them to succeed. They'd have more chance of 'winning' with a simpler goal which more people could get behind. |
Their goal is to end racism in all its forms, including structural and systemic racism. Being anti-establishment and anti-capitalist is the logical position for an organisation with such an aim. Racism isn't just about individual people's attitudes. | |
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:24 - Sep 16 with 4964 views | Herbivore |
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:11 - Sep 16 by Barneycurley | No, I stated that as example in the football in the UK the kick it out campaign was to eradicate racism in the game starting in the UK. So I was talking about footballs response to racism not the wider worlds response even in just sport. |
And it hasn't eradicated racism in football in the UK, so even with a very limited remit it hasn't been successful. And even if it had, it wouldn't have made life any better for 99.9999% of Black people in the UK given how few of them are professional footballers. I'm not sure what your example was intended to demonstrate other than that you like Kick it Out because it's not too intrusive and doesn't have a wider political agenda. [Post edited 16 Sep 2020 10:29]
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