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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 16:52 - Sep 16 by hampstead_blue
Agree.
All of the points you make would cause utter anarchy. It will be like the film 'The Purge'. The Hard left have stolen the cause and are soiling it with their own hatred and bile.
Maybe we need to cleanse the BLM of those smelly lefties who want chaos and ruin.......
Listen to yourself, ffs. BLM is an anti-racist movement run by people who have experienced racism. Your world view is so utterly messed up it's hard to know where to begin with it. You equate saying you care about stuff with actually caring about stuff but complain about any changes that you might have to make if you actually cared about stuff.
I'll be honest, I didn't know BLM was an organised group. I thought it was just a statement from people protesting at police brutality and murder of black people.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 17:34 - Sep 16 by noggin
I'll be honest, I didn't know BLM was an organised group. I thought it was just a statement from people protesting at police brutality and murder of black people.
It's both. It's a tricky one, the organisation wants to see actual change that will tackle the more deeply rooted structural and systemic racism. Because that entails change it gives those who think anti-racism is fine in principle so long as nothing actually has to be done it gives a lot of people an excuse to disavow the message as well.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 17:34 - Sep 16 by noggin
I'll be honest, I didn't know BLM was an organised group. I thought it was just a statement from people protesting at police brutality and murder of black people.
It's an organised group in the same way that antifa is an organised group: only one in the eyes of paranoid idiots worried that they might have to take some responsibility for their bullsh1t.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
No one has get explained to me what the goal of BLM will look like. What sort of society and rules will be in place? What will the politics be? Is there a country or culture in the world that we can look at and say ‘that’s what we aspire to be liked! I hear lots of rhetoric, name calling and finger pointing but I’m still no further forward in understanding what the end game is.
If I had to guess I’d say it sounds like a communist set up. But then communism seems pretty intolerant of those who don’t share its views, which hardly sits with the idealism of an anti racist movement. Unless of course it espouses tolerance for everyone as long as they agree with them - which sounds rather dangerous to me.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 20:07 - Sep 16 by Vic
No one has get explained to me what the goal of BLM will look like. What sort of society and rules will be in place? What will the politics be? Is there a country or culture in the world that we can look at and say ‘that’s what we aspire to be liked! I hear lots of rhetoric, name calling and finger pointing but I’m still no further forward in understanding what the end game is.
If I had to guess I’d say it sounds like a communist set up. But then communism seems pretty intolerant of those who don’t share its views, which hardly sits with the idealism of an anti racist movement. Unless of course it espouses tolerance for everyone as long as they agree with them - which sounds rather dangerous to me.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 20:07 - Sep 16 by Vic
No one has get explained to me what the goal of BLM will look like. What sort of society and rules will be in place? What will the politics be? Is there a country or culture in the world that we can look at and say ‘that’s what we aspire to be liked! I hear lots of rhetoric, name calling and finger pointing but I’m still no further forward in understanding what the end game is.
If I had to guess I’d say it sounds like a communist set up. But then communism seems pretty intolerant of those who don’t share its views, which hardly sits with the idealism of an anti racist movement. Unless of course it espouses tolerance for everyone as long as they agree with them - which sounds rather dangerous to me.
Our resident Marxist Herbivore, feels that BLM is anti-establishment and anti-capitalist.
As such, I have extrapolated that into his desire, along with the growing membership of BLM, to have us be of a marxist and hard left flavour.
All I have done is develop Herbivores statement into what would really happen. Vic has done the same.
As much as the lefties post copy from the Guardian, here is some from the other side.
It makes for some disturbing reading.
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 20:07 - Sep 16 by Vic
No one has get explained to me what the goal of BLM will look like. What sort of society and rules will be in place? What will the politics be? Is there a country or culture in the world that we can look at and say ‘that’s what we aspire to be liked! I hear lots of rhetoric, name calling and finger pointing but I’m still no further forward in understanding what the end game is.
If I had to guess I’d say it sounds like a communist set up. But then communism seems pretty intolerant of those who don’t share its views, which hardly sits with the idealism of an anti racist movement. Unless of course it espouses tolerance for everyone as long as they agree with them - which sounds rather dangerous to me.
They want a world where people aren't disadvantaged by the colour of their skin. It's remarkably simple.
Society and its rules (laws, presumably) don't need to change much - there's various equality legislation already in place. Some of it the current Government is doing it's damndest to withdraw us from, but I can't see us rowing back too far. They also want to see equality irrespective of gender, sexual preference, etc.
It's hardly a vision of a communist utopia. Just about treating people as individuals and with respect.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 20:18 - Sep 16 by Swansea_Blue
They want a world where people aren't disadvantaged by the colour of their skin. It's remarkably simple.
Society and its rules (laws, presumably) don't need to change much - there's various equality legislation already in place. Some of it the current Government is doing it's damndest to withdraw us from, but I can't see us rowing back too far. They also want to see equality irrespective of gender, sexual preference, etc.
It's hardly a vision of a communist utopia. Just about treating people as individuals and with respect.
[Post edited 16 Sep 2020 20:19]
Thanks.
Did I read somewhere about defunding the police? And prisons? What’s that about?
And if they are anti capitalist what is the alternative they want in its place?
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 20:23 - Sep 16 by Vic
Thanks.
Did I read somewhere about defunding the police? And prisons? What’s that about?
And if they are anti capitalist what is the alternative they want in its place?
Defunding the police is slightly misleading. It's about diverting funds from the police towards social and community services. Instead of having police involved in mental health issues or homelessness for example it would be other agencies.
It's not extreme Marxism like Hamster is trying to make out.
[Post edited 16 Sep 2020 20:37]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
It's certainly possible that they are attracting people who have been talking about such things, being a civil movement and seen by some as anti-establishment. There is a defund the police movement in the US that's cropped up at the same time, as the two are linked through the initial police brutality cases. It means something quite different in the US to here though.
It's certainly possible that they are attracting people who have been talking about such things, being a civil movement and seen by some as anti-establishment. There is a defund the police movement in the US that's cropped up at the same time, as the two are linked through the initial police brutality cases. It means something quite different in the US to here though.
Hmm, I’ve just been ire website and immediately found this -
"We call for a national defunding of police. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive."
Is that really that objectionable?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 20:48 - Sep 16 by SpruceMoose
"We call for a national defunding of police. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive."
I get the sentiments and really simpathise. But some of the stuff I’m reading and hearing just seems racist in reverse!
The police in the States are over-funded.
Many are armed up military style and it's not only senseless as in terms of a waste of money, it also acts as a further barrier between the so-called protectors and the same people they are paid to protect.
Racism in reverse? Seriously? Again, have you followed a thing?
People being murdered in their own homes by the police assuming they are intruders.
Actually shot dead in living rooms; one not so long ago watching her tv ffs. Another by a police woman who had walked into her neighbour's apartment thinking it was her own and shot dead the inhabitant.
There are tons of stories following the exact same pattern. A black person on the scene is assumed a criminal. Look at the attitude of Amy Cooper. She held some pretty typical views and felt safe using those views, regardless of potential consequences.
Wanting something done about it is racism in reverse? Good grief man.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 21:04 - Sep 16 by jeera
The police in the States are over-funded.
Many are armed up military style and it's not only senseless as in terms of a waste of money, it also acts as a further barrier between the so-called protectors and the same people they are paid to protect.
Racism in reverse? Seriously? Again, have you followed a thing?
People being murdered in their own homes by the police assuming they are intruders.
Actually shot dead in living rooms; one not so long ago watching her tv ffs. Another by a police woman who had walked into her neighbour's apartment thinking it was her own and shot dead the inhabitant.
There are tons of stories following the exact same pattern. A black person on the scene is assumed a criminal. Look at the attitude of Amy Cooper. She held some pretty typical views and felt safe using those views, regardless of potential consequences.
Wanting something done about it is racism in reverse? Good grief man.
Are you not familiar with any of this stuff?
[Post edited 16 Sep 2020 21:09]
That video still winds me up. Some of the things the policeman says are just outrageous.
Even just a few minutes in where he is claiming the guy has a weapon... and he's on camera. You'd think it would register to him that what he's saying is obviously absurd.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 21:12 - Sep 16 by DanTheMan
That video still winds me up. Some of the things the policeman says are just outrageous.
Even just a few minutes in where he is claiming the guy has a weapon... and he's on camera. You'd think it would register to him that what he's saying is obviously absurd.
There's loads of them, and they're still only a small sample of what is clearly a historically ingrained disgusting view of other human beings:
This one the bloke is swimming in a swimming pool he pays towards, as a bloody resident:
Still, racism in reverse and all that. BLM are Marxists etc. I hate some people.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 21:04 - Sep 16 by jeera
The police in the States are over-funded.
Many are armed up military style and it's not only senseless as in terms of a waste of money, it also acts as a further barrier between the so-called protectors and the same people they are paid to protect.
Racism in reverse? Seriously? Again, have you followed a thing?
People being murdered in their own homes by the police assuming they are intruders.
Actually shot dead in living rooms; one not so long ago watching her tv ffs. Another by a police woman who had walked into her neighbour's apartment thinking it was her own and shot dead the inhabitant.
There are tons of stories following the exact same pattern. A black person on the scene is assumed a criminal. Look at the attitude of Amy Cooper. She held some pretty typical views and felt safe using those views, regardless of potential consequences.
Wanting something done about it is racism in reverse? Good grief man.
Are you not familiar with any of this stuff?
[Post edited 16 Sep 2020 21:09]
That’s the States, but I’m interested in what it all means here in the UK. The two situations are not the same - our police are not always saints, but I don’t think anyone is saying it’s the same as in the US. The impression I’m getting is that everywhere is treated the same and labeled the same by BLM, with little nuance - and that’s not a good.
Talk of defunding the police in the UK without a specific proposed alternative doesn’t get my vote I’m afraid. It’s easy to say what we’re against, but to say what the alternative looks like is a different thing. And at the moment I’m seeing a movement with little recognition of different situations and with few positive alternative policies.
I’m not against BLM and I abhor racism but I’d like to see a few more costed initiative and examples of where these policies are currently working.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 10:32 - Sep 16 by giant_stow
I get your logic. Assuming you're right, I just think that bolting on being anti-capitalist will lose the movement many supporters who would have otherwise been there for them. It risks a messgae of to be anti-racist you have to be anti-capitlist, which is incorrect and self defeating. (I speak as someone who's questionned capitalism's worth many times on here)
I agree with that up to a point, in that it does seem to require massive leaps of political activism from people who whilst they're well prepared to stand up against racism, would balk at the thought of tearing down such a massive institution as the capitalism that's been going on for centuries, and would (probably justifiably) fear the chaos/consequencies that might follow.
Seems to me that demanding such a huge economic upheaval in addition to making a solid stand against racism, is actually to put a barrier in the way. I take Herbivore's point about long term structural change being needed, but think that has to be done incrementally - get rid of the horrendous overt racism that started the BLM movement in the first place - police discrimination & brutality etc. - then aim at changing the economic and social structures. I'm no historian but I can't recall rioting and revolution ever achieving anything long-lasting, and they bring short-term over-reactions as we can see.
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 21:47 - Sep 16 by Ryorry
I agree with that up to a point, in that it does seem to require massive leaps of political activism from people who whilst they're well prepared to stand up against racism, would balk at the thought of tearing down such a massive institution as the capitalism that's been going on for centuries, and would (probably justifiably) fear the chaos/consequencies that might follow.
Seems to me that demanding such a huge economic upheaval in addition to making a solid stand against racism, is actually to put a barrier in the way. I take Herbivore's point about long term structural change being needed, but think that has to be done incrementally - get rid of the horrendous overt racism that started the BLM movement in the first place - police discrimination & brutality etc. - then aim at changing the economic and social structures. I'm no historian but I can't recall rioting and revolution ever achieving anything long-lasting, and they bring short-term over-reactions as we can see.
Do you have a vote?
Pankhurst was horrified by the screams of women being force-fed during hunger strikes. In her autobiography she wrote: "I shall never while I live forget the suffering I experienced during the days when those cries were ringing in my ears."
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Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 21:56 - Sep 16 with 3204 views
Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 21:29 - Sep 16 by Vic
That’s the States, but I’m interested in what it all means here in the UK. The two situations are not the same - our police are not always saints, but I don’t think anyone is saying it’s the same as in the US. The impression I’m getting is that everywhere is treated the same and labeled the same by BLM, with little nuance - and that’s not a good.
Talk of defunding the police in the UK without a specific proposed alternative doesn’t get my vote I’m afraid. It’s easy to say what we’re against, but to say what the alternative looks like is a different thing. And at the moment I’m seeing a movement with little recognition of different situations and with few positive alternative policies.
I’m not against BLM and I abhor racism but I’d like to see a few more costed initiative and examples of where these policies are currently working.
"That's the states". 4 years ago Dalian Atkinson was repeatedly tasered until he was dead. The officers involved are facing charges which they still have not had heard. There are videos of Suffolk Constabulary pulling over drivers because they are black.
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