| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement 09:31 - Sep 16 with 73227 views | Barneycurley |
and not be considered a racist? |  |
| |  |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:40 - Sep 17 with 1464 views | Herbivore |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:37 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
It is your opinion that Hampstead's is a deranged post. Many will agree with you but It seems to me one of the most sensible posts in this thread. You ask "How do we work with people who don't live in the same reality as the rest of us?" There again you presume your reality to be reality. Hampstead, I and, I believe, a majority of the population of The UK see a very different reality. |
Hampstead's post is sensible? And you have the cheek to lecture others about reality? Arf. |  |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:42 - Sep 17 with 1454 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:34 - Sep 17 by Ryorry |
Their argument (not mine) was that they get politics like that every hour every day of the rest of the week, so asking for 2 hours free of it was fair enough.
Yes that's a luxury - selfish, I dunno, most people just need a break from the relentless sticks and stones of their everyday lives and problems right now. Would you say that us enjoying a bit of escapism via a 90 min football match or a few hours of competitive cricket now & then is selfish? I'd say it's probably necessary for the sake of our mental health! |
I don't see why it impacted anyone's enjoyment though. No more than Kick It Out activity at football alters the nature of the game. It's not as if they went on stage and stood silently for five minutes, denying the masses their entertainment.
They still got a dance routine to look at (which is why they were watching right?). So, it was the content of the entertainment that they found objectionable. To which I ask, why?
I wonder if it made people uncomfortable. Guilty even. People know this is going on. People's lives are being ended. We all have to ask ourselves: Could I be doing more?
In comparison to loss of life, their Saturday night entertainment complaints seem rather trivial to me.
You never see the same people demanding presenters stop wearing poppies. It's only ever a certain kind of statement that seems to get some folk worked up. Again, I'd ask them, why? |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:42 - Sep 17 with 1455 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:36 - Sep 17 by Herbivore |
I'm not seeing much in the way of facts and analysis from you or any of the other right wingers on here, champ. Feel free to join in with some. |
Well your issue is you don't seem to appreciate nuance & like to simplify everything , & more often than not seem more concerned with being pompous or thinking you are right.
Of course their are plenty of racist numbskulls on this board who I appreciate you take aim at but for some reason more often than not I just see you as an agitator, with not much civility & you are who this guy describes.
How do i sign off ? Is it champ or chump ? |  | | |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:42 - Sep 17 with 1454 views | Herbivore |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:39 - Sep 17 by Ryorry |
My use of the word 'political' was probably the wrong one there - for 2 hours they simply didn't want to be presented with all the woes of the world that they're bombarded with for the entire rest of the week (see also my reply to Sprucemoose in the last few minutes). |
I would say that's tough sh!t to be honest. For 21,000 people to complain that their Saturday night included a dance with an anti-racist message when there are people literally dying because of systematic, structural racism is utterly ridiculous. People need to get a grip. | |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:42 - Sep 17 with 1451 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:10 - Sep 17 by hampstead_blue |
It's only political because you on the left want to make it so.
I'd envisage so many more decent people joining if it were not stuffed full of angry mobs screaming at the Police calling for defunding, breaking the system, and the other common room 'angry mob' slogans you cling onto.
Herbivore summed it up. The goal is to dismantle capitalism and the establishment.
Well Darth, I've made the point earlier than it is those things which feed and clothe you.
Change them yes.
The more you clammer for their destruction the more you alienate yourself with the majority of the UK's population.
It's incredibly selfish and shows the left to be so narrow minded and hateful. You commandeer the cause for your own naive ideals.
If it were clear of politics, peaceful, showed due respect for the Police and authorities then more would join and something would get done.
Sadly, your side have pocketed it which is why so many people are removing the badge and disowning themselves.
Can you not see the damage you are doing to the cause?
BLM is a cause for everyone. NOT the left. You are destroying it's message. |
Jesus wept. |  |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:44 - Sep 17 with 1442 views | Herbivore |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:42 - Sep 17 by jaseitfc2015 |
Well your issue is you don't seem to appreciate nuance & like to simplify everything , & more often than not seem more concerned with being pompous or thinking you are right.
Of course their are plenty of racist numbskulls on this board who I appreciate you take aim at but for some reason more often than not I just see you as an agitator, with not much civility & you are who this guy describes.
How do i sign off ? Is it champ or chump ? |
You could sign off with an actual contribution to the thread, that would make a nice change. | |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:44 - Sep 17 with 1440 views | ROKERITE |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:24 - Sep 17 by Herbivore |
The guy is an utter loon. |
Owen Jones certainly is but I still wouldn't say he deserves a kicking. Leave that sort of thing to violent left-wing mobs. | | | |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:45 - Sep 17 with 1439 views | jeera |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:42 - Sep 17 by Herbivore |
I would say that's tough sh!t to be honest. For 21,000 people to complain that their Saturday night included a dance with an anti-racist message when there are people literally dying because of systematic, structural racism is utterly ridiculous. People need to get a grip. |
It took half of those a week or so to decide they'd been offended. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:46 - Sep 17 with 1429 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:37 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
It is your opinion that Hampstead's is a deranged post. Many will agree with you but It seems to me one of the most sensible posts in this thread. You ask "How do we work with people who don't live in the same reality as the rest of us?" There again you presume your reality to be reality. Hampstead, I and, I believe, a majority of the population of The UK see a very different reality. |
You can't gaslight reality. Dead bodies of Black people tend to have a certain weight of reality to them.
You can try and play your 'but both sides' game if you wish, but it's rather silly when we have had decades of Right wing governments in power. The reality we are now enduring is a result of how you, Hamstead and a large amount of the country see reality. [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 13:47]
| |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:46 - Sep 17 with 1425 views | Herbivore |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:44 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
Owen Jones certainly is but I still wouldn't say he deserves a kicking. Leave that sort of thing to violent left-wing mobs. |
The only person who wants anyone to take a kicking is Hampstead, who condoned Owen Jones being beaten up. He's also talked about having violent fantasies involving the likes of Jeremy Corbyn. That's the same Hampstead whose reality you said you agree with, the same one you think talks sense. Good for you, pal. [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 13:50]
| |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:50 - Sep 17 with 1410 views | itfcjoe |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:42 - Sep 17 by SpruceMoose |
I don't see why it impacted anyone's enjoyment though. No more than Kick It Out activity at football alters the nature of the game. It's not as if they went on stage and stood silently for five minutes, denying the masses their entertainment.
They still got a dance routine to look at (which is why they were watching right?). So, it was the content of the entertainment that they found objectionable. To which I ask, why?
I wonder if it made people uncomfortable. Guilty even. People know this is going on. People's lives are being ended. We all have to ask ourselves: Could I be doing more?
In comparison to loss of life, their Saturday night entertainment complaints seem rather trivial to me.
You never see the same people demanding presenters stop wearing poppies. It's only ever a certain kind of statement that seems to get some folk worked up. Again, I'd ask them, why? |
99% of people complaining won't have even watched it anyway - it's just Mr & Mrs Outrage from the local Facebook group |  |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:50 - Sep 17 with 1408 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:42 - Sep 17 by jaseitfc2015 |
Well your issue is you don't seem to appreciate nuance & like to simplify everything , & more often than not seem more concerned with being pompous or thinking you are right.
Of course their are plenty of racist numbskulls on this board who I appreciate you take aim at but for some reason more often than not I just see you as an agitator, with not much civility & you are who this guy describes.
How do i sign off ? Is it champ or chump ? |
I'm not sure what your complaint is to be honest?
Racists are bad but Herbivore is somehow worse because he isn't polite to them?
Apologies if I have that wrong, I'm just not fully grasping at your point. Perhaps you could set me straight? You seem to have a personal dislike of Herbivore but trying to shoehorn that dislike into a thread where he's having a pop at racists seems like it might not really be a good way to express that dislike. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:51 - Sep 17 with 1405 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:50 - Sep 17 by itfcjoe |
99% of people complaining won't have even watched it anyway - it's just Mr & Mrs Outrage from the local Facebook group |
I had overlooked that actually Joe! Guilty of giving people too much credit! | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:55 - Sep 17 with 1392 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:37 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
It is your opinion that Hampstead's is a deranged post. Many will agree with you but It seems to me one of the most sensible posts in this thread. You ask "How do we work with people who don't live in the same reality as the rest of us?" There again you presume your reality to be reality. Hampstead, I and, I believe, a majority of the population of The UK see a very different reality. |
I see a reality where inequalities are increasing and injustices still ignored. And I see a reality where the left hasn’t been in power for 40-odd years at least.
So forgive me if I don’t accept a “reality” where the left is to blame. That’s ideological loon talk.
Hampstead and others can’t deal with an objective and fact-based discussion because that’s just not going on in their heads. | |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:55 - Sep 17 with 1388 views | jeera |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:51 - Sep 17 by SpruceMoose |
I had overlooked that actually Joe! Guilty of giving people too much credit! |
Pfft. What's the matter? Too subtle for ya?
| |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:00 - Sep 17 with 1377 views | ROKERITE |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:39 - Sep 17 by Herbivore |
So is being anti-racist political or not? I lose track now. |
No, being anti-racist isn't political as every major party condemns racism. BLM is decidedly political and divisive. BLM is counter productive if the aim is racial harmony. Of course it's very good for making people feel morally superior. To quote Thomas Sowell again: "If navel-gazing, hand-wringing or self-dramatisation helped with racial issues, we would have achieved utopia long ago". He would certainly add dance troupes and statue destroyers too.
I'm sure there'll be some fellow Seinfeld fans on here. This BLM nonsense reminds me of the episode where Kramer refused to wear the AID's ribbon. | | | |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:04 - Sep 17 with 1365 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:00 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
No, being anti-racist isn't political as every major party condemns racism. BLM is decidedly political and divisive. BLM is counter productive if the aim is racial harmony. Of course it's very good for making people feel morally superior. To quote Thomas Sowell again: "If navel-gazing, hand-wringing or self-dramatisation helped with racial issues, we would have achieved utopia long ago". He would certainly add dance troupes and statue destroyers too.
I'm sure there'll be some fellow Seinfeld fans on here. This BLM nonsense reminds me of the episode where Kramer refused to wear the AID's ribbon. |
The goal isn’t harmony it’s change. As for BLM and many others that’s a pre-requisite of harmony.
Saying we all want harmony is just empty lip service. And seems to be more about denying the need for change than anything else. | |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:04 - Sep 17 with 1362 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:00 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
No, being anti-racist isn't political as every major party condemns racism. BLM is decidedly political and divisive. BLM is counter productive if the aim is racial harmony. Of course it's very good for making people feel morally superior. To quote Thomas Sowell again: "If navel-gazing, hand-wringing or self-dramatisation helped with racial issues, we would have achieved utopia long ago". He would certainly add dance troupes and statue destroyers too.
I'm sure there'll be some fellow Seinfeld fans on here. This BLM nonsense reminds me of the episode where Kramer refused to wear the AID's ribbon. |
Correction - some major political parties and their supporters pay minimal lip service to condemning racism at best. Have you ignored the US for the last five years? The idea that the Republicans condemn racism in any kind of meaningful or genuine way is straight up ridiculous and would undermine your entire premise.
As for the rest, I don't think you speak from a position of experience. But that's ok. Opinions are like arseholes. I tend to ignore nearly everyone else's. [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 14:07]
| |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:06 - Sep 17 with 1354 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:04 - Sep 17 by Darth_Koont |
The goal isn’t harmony it’s change. As for BLM and many others that’s a pre-requisite of harmony.
Saying we all want harmony is just empty lip service. And seems to be more about denying the need for change than anything else. |
While Rokerite may say racial harmony, many of the people who advance similar arguments actually mean racial subservience and the desire for things to carry on how they always have done, quietly and without disruption. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:11 - Sep 17 with 1338 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:06 - Sep 17 by SpruceMoose |
While Rokerite may say racial harmony, many of the people who advance similar arguments actually mean racial subservience and the desire for things to carry on how they always have done, quietly and without disruption. |
Well, yeah there’s certainly that component too. Especially for the White Lives Matter lot and those getting overly triggered by demands for genuine equality.
As has been said, if privilege is all you have known then equality feels like oppression. | |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:12 - Sep 17 with 1333 views | Herbivore |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:00 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
No, being anti-racist isn't political as every major party condemns racism. BLM is decidedly political and divisive. BLM is counter productive if the aim is racial harmony. Of course it's very good for making people feel morally superior. To quote Thomas Sowell again: "If navel-gazing, hand-wringing or self-dramatisation helped with racial issues, we would have achieved utopia long ago". He would certainly add dance troupes and statue destroyers too.
I'm sure there'll be some fellow Seinfeld fans on here. This BLM nonsense reminds me of the episode where Kramer refused to wear the AID's ribbon. |
So being anti-racist isn't political except when it actually wants to seek meaningful change and then it is political? Political parties paying lip service to racism isn't the same as bringing about meaningful change that will actually address structural and systemic racism.
And why do you keep quoting Thomas Sowell? Is it because he's the only person of colour you can find on the outer right hand reaches of the political spectrum? Quoting someone who doesn't think that systemic racism exists on a thread about the anti-racism movement isn't a great look and really just highlights your own biases on this issue. [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 14:13]
| |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:13 - Sep 17 with 1333 views | eireblue |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 13:10 - Sep 17 by hampstead_blue |
It's only political because you on the left want to make it so.
I'd envisage so many more decent people joining if it were not stuffed full of angry mobs screaming at the Police calling for defunding, breaking the system, and the other common room 'angry mob' slogans you cling onto.
Herbivore summed it up. The goal is to dismantle capitalism and the establishment.
Well Darth, I've made the point earlier than it is those things which feed and clothe you.
Change them yes.
The more you clammer for their destruction the more you alienate yourself with the majority of the UK's population.
It's incredibly selfish and shows the left to be so narrow minded and hateful. You commandeer the cause for your own naive ideals.
If it were clear of politics, peaceful, showed due respect for the Police and authorities then more would join and something would get done.
Sadly, your side have pocketed it which is why so many people are removing the badge and disowning themselves.
Can you not see the damage you are doing to the cause?
BLM is a cause for everyone. NOT the left. You are destroying it's message. |
When was the US or U.K. run by a hard left government?
Why is there a BLM movement if everything is fine?
Why is there a XR movement if everything is fine? |  | | |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:15 - Sep 17 with 1323 views | SpruceMoose |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:13 - Sep 17 by eireblue |
When was the US or U.K. run by a hard left government?
Why is there a BLM movement if everything is fine?
Why is there a XR movement if everything is fine? |
Like I said further up the thread, the likes of Paz and Hamstead aren't in this for genuine debate. They want to have their say, completely ignore any counter evidence, and then have their say again, while this time adding in a little extra bit about how, thanks to the Left, debate and civility are now dead. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:24 - Sep 17 with 1302 views | Darth_Koont |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:13 - Sep 17 by eireblue |
When was the US or U.K. run by a hard left government?
Why is there a BLM movement if everything is fine?
Why is there a XR movement if everything is fine? |
Indeed.
And why are there 4+ million and rising children living in poverty if everything is fine?
Why does Scotland want independence? Why are swathes of the population radicalised into blaming immigrants and foreigners?
These are all people and issues that have been ignored for far too long by a brand of politics that is predominantly non-left in nature and far too focused on individual liberty and identity, to the detriment of society as a whole. | |
| |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:35 - Sep 17 with 1266 views | ROKERITE |
| Is it possible to disagree with the BLM movement on 14:12 - Sep 17 by Herbivore |
So being anti-racist isn't political except when it actually wants to seek meaningful change and then it is political? Political parties paying lip service to racism isn't the same as bringing about meaningful change that will actually address structural and systemic racism.
And why do you keep quoting Thomas Sowell? Is it because he's the only person of colour you can find on the outer right hand reaches of the political spectrum? Quoting someone who doesn't think that systemic racism exists on a thread about the anti-racism movement isn't a great look and really just highlights your own biases on this issue. [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 14:13]
|
Dr Sowell is ninety now but thankfully is far from being the only black conservative American. Walter E Williams, Robert L. Woodson, Shelby Steele. Larry Elder and many others share his non-left view of the world. I just happen to believe Dr Sowell is an extremely wise man and being black is more difficult to dismiss by the colour obsessed left when he says it as he sees it. Of course Dr Sowell and the others I have named receive the normal "Uncle Tom" insults but they're strong enough to take them. There is actually some hope that there'll be an increase in the black Republican vote as more recognise Trump has done far more for African-Americans than most previous Presidents and certainly more than Obama. Many are realising The Democratic Party takes the black vote for granted and it is in cities the Democrats have run for fifty-plus years that the greatest poverty and squalor exists. The increasingly senile-dementia suffering Joe Biden opened a few eyes when he told black voters they weren't black if they voted for Trump. Now there is true racism exposed; fit in the box the white man says you must, disgusting. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
