| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? 11:25 - Nov 15 with 13676 views | Dubtractor |
Was out on my bike yesterday and the roads were really busy, everyone is just carrying on as if nothing has changed.
Loads of non essential businesses just finding ways to get round the rules - gyms classing themselves as mental health support. Other non essential businesses just being allowed to be open because they sell some food products or tools.
If schools get a case they are largely being told to carry on regardless - this has happened at Mrs Dub's school under the advice of PHE.
A combination of woolly government advice, coupled with the general public just not giving a toss, means that this 4 week period will probably achieve next to nothing. |  |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:40 - Nov 15 with 3292 views | bluelagos |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:31 - Nov 15 by Funge |
I really struggle with this reluctance to take the vaccine.
My primary concern here is that the damage caused by lockdowns will be so intense, that the generations below will end up paying for it for an inordinant amount of time.
Any steps that can be taken to return to normality should be grasped with both hands - and clearly a vaccine will be the biggest step that can be taken.
Honestly, the amount of rubbish that we all put into our bodies during the course of day-to-day life - all the junk food, all the booze, all the drugs - realistically, who cares about a vaccine in light of all of the above? |
Whilst you have the anti-vaccers and the conspiracy theorist loons (they are going to microchip us) you also have ordinary people who worry the vaccine is largely untested. Which it is to a point, we can't know 100% what effects may happen in say 12 months after use.
But like all things, we have to make judgements and assess risks. I'd have no issues taking a vaccine if it passes the necessary tests. But many will be concerned and of course we are reliant on our government to effectively communicate the health benefits and the minimal risks. |  |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:42 - Nov 15 with 3287 views | m14_blue |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:32 - Nov 15 by bluelagos |
If 2 or 3% refuse, no worries. But anecdotally I have heard a number of people worrying about taking it, seemingly worried that the long term effects are unknown. Which they are, how can we know the long term effects?
I'll happily take it but I think the refusniks could be a signifant number. |
That’s always going to be the case with any new medicine or treatment though, the trials aren’t going to last 20 years.
Tell them to stop being such d1cks and just take the vaccine ffs.
Or else, if they don’t trust the medical experts and scientists then hopefully they won’t be clogging up the NHS wanting any other life saving operations or treatment. |  | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:46 - Nov 15 with 3278 views | bluelagos |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:42 - Nov 15 by m14_blue |
That’s always going to be the case with any new medicine or treatment though, the trials aren’t going to last 20 years.
Tell them to stop being such d1cks and just take the vaccine ffs.
Or else, if they don’t trust the medical experts and scientists then hopefully they won’t be clogging up the NHS wanting any other life saving operations or treatment. |
Am not sure 'stop being a dick' would be all that effective as a message, although I am with you in spirit :-) | |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:47 - Nov 15 with 3275 views | J2BLUE |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:35 - Nov 15 by footers |
Maybe it's just due to the amplification of social media and the like, but I really didn't think we had so many conspiracist cranks over here before all this started. I wonder if anyone has an actual number for those who don't believe in it. Must be worryingly high at this point.
Even people I know, friends/family, are now claiming they'll never take a vaccine, it's all a 'control experiment' and the like. Whatever happened to common sense and listening to experts? |
You can't argue with these people. They have a blank canvas and the only limit to the conspiracy is their imagination. If you point out all the holes in their theories then covid becomes a 'test case' or something equally stupid to allow the conspiracy to continue.
I used to be fascinated by 2012 forums. The people on there genuinely believing the world would face some sort of massive catastrophe on December 21st because of the Mayan calander. They thought of every little thing and prepared for it. Then that date came and went and the administrator announced the forum would close down. Most people on there pleaded for the forum to continue and no doubt set about finding some 'facts' which showed they weren't wrong, they were just too early so they could maintain their group.
Oh and no, I didn't post on there! |  |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:55 - Nov 15 with 3261 views | bluelagos |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:47 - Nov 15 by J2BLUE |
You can't argue with these people. They have a blank canvas and the only limit to the conspiracy is their imagination. If you point out all the holes in their theories then covid becomes a 'test case' or something equally stupid to allow the conspiracy to continue.
I used to be fascinated by 2012 forums. The people on there genuinely believing the world would face some sort of massive catastrophe on December 21st because of the Mayan calander. They thought of every little thing and prepared for it. Then that date came and went and the administrator announced the forum would close down. Most people on there pleaded for the forum to continue and no doubt set about finding some 'facts' which showed they weren't wrong, they were just too early so they could maintain their group.
Oh and no, I didn't post on there! |
So what preparations did they make? Struggling to see how tidying or stocking up would be of benefit if the world ended. | |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 15:11 - Nov 15 with 3233 views | J2BLUE |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:55 - Nov 15 by bluelagos |
So what preparations did they make? Struggling to see how tidying or stocking up would be of benefit if the world ended. |
Well obviously it would only affect those who hadn't prepared with food, water, medical supplies, guns etc etc.
Very odd mentality. A few of them had actual second homes in the country read to evacuate to etc. The whole thing has made me question if conpiracy theorists are mainly the unhappy and unfulfilled who fill a hole by joining this 'elite club' of people who are 'awake'. Look at John down the road with his high salary, four holidays a year,, hot wife and his massive house, the fooking sheep. While the conspiracy nut sits in his mum's basement but he's awake and that's all that counts to the group. I find it fascinating. | |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 15:12 - Nov 15 with 3236 views | ronnyd |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:31 - Nov 15 by Funge |
I really struggle with this reluctance to take the vaccine.
My primary concern here is that the damage caused by lockdowns will be so intense, that the generations below will end up paying for it for an inordinant amount of time.
Any steps that can be taken to return to normality should be grasped with both hands - and clearly a vaccine will be the biggest step that can be taken.
Honestly, the amount of rubbish that we all put into our bodies during the course of day-to-day life - all the junk food, all the booze, all the drugs - realistically, who cares about a vaccine in light of all of the above? |
I'm 75, so in the higher vulnerable group. My biggest concern with the vaccine is the possibility of side effects. Some of which may take months/years to manifest themselves. As you get older you get more health issues anyway so would you want more. I reiterate, i'm not against vaccination per se. | | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 15:15 - Nov 15 with 3230 views | StokieBlue |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:47 - Nov 15 by J2BLUE |
You can't argue with these people. They have a blank canvas and the only limit to the conspiracy is their imagination. If you point out all the holes in their theories then covid becomes a 'test case' or something equally stupid to allow the conspiracy to continue.
I used to be fascinated by 2012 forums. The people on there genuinely believing the world would face some sort of massive catastrophe on December 21st because of the Mayan calander. They thought of every little thing and prepared for it. Then that date came and went and the administrator announced the forum would close down. Most people on there pleaded for the forum to continue and no doubt set about finding some 'facts' which showed they weren't wrong, they were just too early so they could maintain their group.
Oh and no, I didn't post on there! |
Stupidest thing about that was that the Mayan calendar didn't end in 2012. It was originally a cyclic calendar meaning the Mayan's could date things chronologically. They got around this at a later date by adding another term and that happened to end in 2012.
If they had been around longer they would have just increased the term, it's fairly similar to an older version of the Y2K bug.
There was never any prediction of doom, just a civilisation that died out before they increased the term.
SB |  | | |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 15:16 - Nov 15 with 3228 views | Funge |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 15:12 - Nov 15 by ronnyd |
I'm 75, so in the higher vulnerable group. My biggest concern with the vaccine is the possibility of side effects. Some of which may take months/years to manifest themselves. As you get older you get more health issues anyway so would you want more. I reiterate, i'm not against vaccination per se. |
That's a fair post. |  | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 16:06 - Nov 15 with 3190 views | StokieBlue |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 11:38 - Nov 15 by 26_Paz |
I just went wandering round my local high street yesterday for something to do. Some outside stalls were open, got some posh bread and a pie. Got a takeaway coffee. More stuff open than last time but nothing that could do any harm. |
New study you might want to take a look at, it's specifically about "low-risk" individuals in the lower age group cohorts:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/15/damage-to-multiple-organs-recorded
SB | | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 16:12 - Nov 15 with 3181 views | m14_blue |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:46 - Nov 15 by bluelagos |
Am not sure 'stop being a dick' would be all that effective as a message, although I am with you in spirit :-) |
Yeah, you’re probably right | | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 16:16 - Nov 15 with 3178 views | m14_blue |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 15:12 - Nov 15 by ronnyd |
I'm 75, so in the higher vulnerable group. My biggest concern with the vaccine is the possibility of side effects. Some of which may take months/years to manifest themselves. As you get older you get more health issues anyway so would you want more. I reiterate, i'm not against vaccination per se. |
But the risks of health issues from Covid19 outweigh that risk by a huge magnitude, that’s the important point here.
Despite my flippant comments to BL earlier in the thread, I can understand some of the nervousness, but vaccines are generally incredibly safe and it comes down to a choice over whether you trust the brightest and best minds in the country or are swayed by some nutters on Facebook. | | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 16:43 - Nov 15 with 3150 views | Trequartista |
What happens after lockdown i am wondering. If the R has dropped to 1 or below we will go back to the tiered system, if it has not though, how can we justify staying in lockdown if lockdown has failed? |  |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 16:52 - Nov 15 with 3132 views | J2BLUE |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 16:43 - Nov 15 by Trequartista |
What happens after lockdown i am wondering. If the R has dropped to 1 or below we will go back to the tiered system, if it has not though, how can we justify staying in lockdown if lockdown has failed? |
Define failed? This is about not overwhelming the NHS. I don't see how it can fail. Either the NHS won't be overwhelmed or it will be but not as badly as it would have been. This is not a black and white issue.
What happens after lockdown? We can only make predictions. I predict two weeks of pretty much the same thing under a different name with the carrot of a fortnight with decreased restrictions for Christmas. Then in January pretty much back to the current restrictions with the carrot of vaccinating as fast as possible. | |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 17:02 - Nov 15 with 3110 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:35 - Nov 15 by footers |
Maybe it's just due to the amplification of social media and the like, but I really didn't think we had so many conspiracist cranks over here before all this started. I wonder if anyone has an actual number for those who don't believe in it. Must be worryingly high at this point.
Even people I know, friends/family, are now claiming they'll never take a vaccine, it's all a 'control experiment' and the like. Whatever happened to common sense and listening to experts? |
The women that used this listened to experts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essure
"Although designed to remain in place for a lifetime, it was approved based on short-term safety studies."
BAYER’S $1.6 BILLION SETTLEMENT IS A VICTORY TO THOUSANDS OF WOMEN WHO FILED ESSURE LAWSUITS AGAINST THE PHARMA MANUFACTURER, AND TO ALMOST 44,000 MEMBERS OF FACEBOOK ESSURE CAMPAIGNS |  |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 17:03 - Nov 15 with 3108 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:31 - Nov 15 by Funge |
I really struggle with this reluctance to take the vaccine.
My primary concern here is that the damage caused by lockdowns will be so intense, that the generations below will end up paying for it for an inordinant amount of time.
Any steps that can be taken to return to normality should be grasped with both hands - and clearly a vaccine will be the biggest step that can be taken.
Honestly, the amount of rubbish that we all put into our bodies during the course of day-to-day life - all the junk food, all the booze, all the drugs - realistically, who cares about a vaccine in light of all of the above? |
My body is my temple! | |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 17:11 - Nov 15 with 3106 views | StokieBlue |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 16:43 - Nov 15 by Trequartista |
What happens after lockdown i am wondering. If the R has dropped to 1 or below we will go back to the tiered system, if it has not though, how can we justify staying in lockdown if lockdown has failed? |
Failed?
If it's not under R then that shows where we would have been if there had been no lockdown.
It's a very strange way of looking at things to say it would have failed, it just means it wasn't strong enough or long enough and thus should be extended and increased.
SB | | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 17:32 - Nov 15 with 3073 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 11:32 - Nov 15 by IpswichBoyBlue |
Using the word Lockdown is a joke. Nobody is taking any notice of it. People wondering around, clueless of where to go or what to do. Might as well have Lambert in charge of things. |
And in fairness to the government (not words you'll often hear from me) they aren't calling it a lockdown - at least not in their official guidance. It's 'national restrictions'.
In the absence of strict government intervention it falls to everyone to try to read the mood and respond accordingly. We know infections were going up, hospital admissions going up. So that's a time to hunker down a bit and try to limit contact with people. The 'national restrictions' are a guide, even if they're not always that logical because there are so many vested interests the govt are trying to keep happy alongside health.
That's what I quite like about the Welsh Government approach. The First Minister was questioned on this and he pretty much said that they were looking for people to adhere to the principle rather than argue the toss over the detail of any given piece of advice. In the absence of clear, strictly enforced rules/laws, there's not a lot else we can do.
If it's any help we went through the same here in Wales 3 weeks ago and have been out of the enhanced restrictions for a week. We had similar inconsistencies, but looks like our 'firebreak' had a positive impact. |  |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 18:27 - Nov 15 with 3032 views | 26_Paz |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:34 - Nov 15 by giant_stow |
I've just been to Victoria Park in hackney with my Mum and it was heaving. I accept I broke the rules btw, so deserve any telling off. Re the OP, I think people are just living by their own rules of whats safe and unsafe. [Post edited 15 Nov 2020 14:42]
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You can meet one person outside. I don’t think you have broken the rules |  |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 18:38 - Nov 15 with 3016 views | StokieBlue |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:34 - Nov 15 by giant_stow |
I've just been to Victoria Park in hackney with my Mum and it was heaving. I accept I broke the rules btw, so deserve any telling off. Re the OP, I think people are just living by their own rules of whats safe and unsafe. [Post edited 15 Nov 2020 14:42]
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Meeting one person is allowed.
As for the last line, that is why we are in such a mess, the public don't really know what is safe and isn't in a lot of cases. It's really not on as we can't combat this unless everyone pulls together and follows the guidelines as they are written, not as they think they should be written.
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 18:59 - Nov 15 with 2987 views | Melford |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:31 - Nov 15 by Funge |
I really struggle with this reluctance to take the vaccine.
My primary concern here is that the damage caused by lockdowns will be so intense, that the generations below will end up paying for it for an inordinant amount of time.
Any steps that can be taken to return to normality should be grasped with both hands - and clearly a vaccine will be the biggest step that can be taken.
Honestly, the amount of rubbish that we all put into our bodies during the course of day-to-day life - all the junk food, all the booze, all the drugs - realistically, who cares about a vaccine in light of all of the above? |
Good point. I injected myself with a syringe full of vodka once, I've smoked smack and crack. Munched so many pills my jaw still clicks now from all the years of gurning even though it's 15 years since I last necked a little fella.
I have one person on my FB feed who would snort a line of dandruff if you told him it was coke and yet he's on one about "I'm not putting these chemicals in my body because I don't trust them" |  |
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| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 19:45 - Nov 15 with 2941 views | stonojnr |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:23 - Nov 15 by bluelagos |
I genuinely think the biggest issue is going to be reluctance to take the vaccine. I can't see how you can mandate it, but think we need to be clever in incentivising uptake. Maybe no international travel, no visits to pubs or football for people who refuse it.
If we had say 1 in 3 refuse it, every chance it continues to spread and infect the elderly, for whom it may be less effective. |
Ive been on like 2 holidays abroad in the last decade, and probably only been to 5 football matches in that time.
not everyone is an international jet setting football season ticket holder, and wouldnt find complying with those restrictions any bother at all.
pubs Id grant you might be different, but since its been nearly 9 months since I stepped foot in one and I think it might be close to a year before it gets back to normal as January and February are the critical months for respiratory illnesses, Im sure Id cope. | | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 19:53 - Nov 15 with 2930 views | Churchman |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 14:23 - Nov 15 by bluelagos |
I genuinely think the biggest issue is going to be reluctance to take the vaccine. I can't see how you can mandate it, but think we need to be clever in incentivising uptake. Maybe no international travel, no visits to pubs or football for people who refuse it.
If we had say 1 in 3 refuse it, every chance it continues to spread and infect the elderly, for whom it may be less effective. |
Give each person who takes the vaccine a certificate (electronic on the app) and a note on their medical records. If they haven’t taken the vaccine and contract C-19, immediate enforced isolation and no nhs treatment. I suspect a draconian process like that would encourage people.
As for ignoring lockdown, Johnson’s credibility is zero after the Cummings affair on top of his own staggering ineptitude and frankly I understand why people are making their own decisions. |  | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 20:40 - Nov 15 with 2875 views | ronnyd |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 16:16 - Nov 15 by m14_blue |
But the risks of health issues from Covid19 outweigh that risk by a huge magnitude, that’s the important point here.
Despite my flippant comments to BL earlier in the thread, I can understand some of the nervousness, but vaccines are generally incredibly safe and it comes down to a choice over whether you trust the brightest and best minds in the country or are swayed by some nutters on Facebook. |
Don't do @rsebook, Two otter or any other social media stuff. Except for here and my car forum. | | | |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 20:46 - Nov 15 with 2865 views | m14_blue |
| This 'lockdown' really is a farce isn't it? on 20:40 - Nov 15 by ronnyd |
Don't do @rsebook, Two otter or any other social media stuff. Except for here and my car forum. |
Sorry, that was a general point rather than aimed specifically at you.
As I say, I understand your hesitance, particularly when so many people are so vocal about their own, but I do think it’s probably illogical. | | | |
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