| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions 23:10 - Feb 4 with 15269 views | StokieBlue |
So it looks like the Tory backbenchers and the Chancellor are applying pressure to try and get the government to bring forward the dates for considering easing the lockdown in England.
This is against the advice of SAGE who Sunak has stated are acting too conservatively. You also have Hunt coming out and saying lockdown should be continued until cases are to 1000 per day and Starmer saying we shouldn't open up too early like other times.
Then you have Chope on Newsnight saying that the 8th March should be "lockdown freedom day" when the public get their "liberties" back and other evidences showing that only 20% of people are following isolation orders.
The issue here is that if there are 20,000 cases a day, even if the R is low (say 0.6) then when you open up that is still a high baseline number of cases which can start growing exponentially again and it won't take long to get to high numbers. Counter to that, if you wait until cases are 5,000 per day it will take longer to reach higher cases and it will also allow more time for vaccinations before those cases reach a high level.
Interesting Chope refused to say what an acceptable number of cases were to open up, he said that isn't the point and that people should be able to exercise their freedom and even referred to the public as "prisoners" so that might give an indication where a number of Tory backbenchers are at the moment.
You also have Damien Green on Newsnight saying that this has to be the last lockdown for both economic and mental health reasons and in order for that to be the case we need come out in a cautious and pragmatic way due to the new variants.
So it seems there are two very solid blocks of opinion but very little agreement between the blocks.
What are peoples thoughts?
SB
|  | | |  |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:53 - Feb 5 with 595 views | m14_blue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:38 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Have you any evidence for this or is it just your opinion?
What are you getting at anyway - do you think we shouldn't bother with the rules or are you making a point that the government's more to blame? I agree the government's massively culpable in many many ways, but if everyone followed the rules (common sense as well as letter of the law) I can't see how it wouldn't improve things (to the extent we'd probably be out of lockdown 3 IMO). |
I think the point is that people not 100% following the rules in their free time accounts for a very small proportion of daily interactions in which the virus can be spread.
Schools, offices, workplaces, construction sites, call centres etc have all remained open and are likely far greater vectors than anything people do (or don’t do) on their daily exercise.
The government and their tame media have made a concerted effort to highlight all the instances of rule breaking but on the whole people have behaved incredibly well. |  | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:54 - Feb 5 with 587 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:49 - Feb 5 by NewcyBlue |
“ Meanwhile lockdowns (the harshest version of the rules) have been proven to have an effect. So I have evidence on my side.”
So what you’re saying is that lockdowns should have been earlier and longer? |
I've interpreted what Dolly is saying as that if everybody abided by the rules whilst we were in lockdown then we'd be out of it sooner. And that if everyone was more conscientious when we are out of lockdown then cases wouldn't rise as quickly. |  |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:59 - Feb 5 with 578 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:49 - Feb 5 by NewcyBlue |
“ Meanwhile lockdowns (the harshest version of the rules) have been proven to have an effect. So I have evidence on my side.”
So what you’re saying is that lockdowns should have been earlier and longer? |
Well yeah, we were too soft in the first instance; countries who went harder (i.e. New Zealand) have fared better. But this is somewhat drifting away from my point into other stuff. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:02 - Feb 5 with 560 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 09:24 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
He shouldn’t have to ask BL. It’s common courtesy to ensure you’re not putting somebody else at risk of transmission. I’m surprised tbh. |
Not sure why BL is getting stick here. The way I understand it is he was coming towards someone on a path that wasn't 2m wide and they overreacted from some distance away. Are we really suggesting BL wouldn't have got as far over as he could have done when he got nearer to them?
He's not an idiot.
As for Paz vs Dolly, you're both right. I think Dolly is suggesting you make your best effort to remain 2m away from everyone at all times. I'm sure he understands that it's not always possible if other people are less considerate. He's not suggesting he's literally been 2m away from every other person outside his bubble since March, just that he's tried to be. As we should all have done. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 15:04]
|  |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:02 - Feb 5 with 559 views | giant_stow |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:53 - Feb 5 by m14_blue |
I think the point is that people not 100% following the rules in their free time accounts for a very small proportion of daily interactions in which the virus can be spread.
Schools, offices, workplaces, construction sites, call centres etc have all remained open and are likely far greater vectors than anything people do (or don’t do) on their daily exercise.
The government and their tame media have made a concerted effort to highlight all the instances of rule breaking but on the whole people have behaved incredibly well. |
oh gawd, now you've done it. |  |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:08 - Feb 5 with 541 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:53 - Feb 5 by m14_blue |
I think the point is that people not 100% following the rules in their free time accounts for a very small proportion of daily interactions in which the virus can be spread.
Schools, offices, workplaces, construction sites, call centres etc have all remained open and are likely far greater vectors than anything people do (or don’t do) on their daily exercise.
The government and their tame media have made a concerted effort to highlight all the instances of rule breaking but on the whole people have behaved incredibly well. |
I agree with this. Most people seem to be following the rules.
The government could also have added some extra layers to their restrictions which would help but make no difference to businesses. I saw someone standing in a Subway about an hour ago. Little shop with just enough room for a service counter and a couple of metres for people to stand. Door closed. Why didn't the government say all shops remaining open must ventilate by keeping their front doors open? Would make minor difference in supermarkets but smaller shops would have some ventilation.
The government are producing posters and leaflets about ventilating but not taking the easy wins. | |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:13 - Feb 5 with 522 views | eireblue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:53 - Feb 5 by SpruceMoose |
I'm sure I remember his first 20 pager being when he made the claim that the Boston Dynamics robots were just blokes in costumes.
Name a more iconic duo than Stokie and taking anti-science positions! |
From the Vegan Society Web Page !!!!!
“Recently, we’ve received a few queries from people around the world asking if a vegan diet can offer protection against coronavirus (COVID-19).
The simple answer is no.”
Darn, well not sure I can help get this to 20 now. |  | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:14 - Feb 5 with 514 views | NewcyBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:59 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Well yeah, we were too soft in the first instance; countries who went harder (i.e. New Zealand) have fared better. But this is somewhat drifting away from my point into other stuff. |
So really it isn’t people’s fault that the rules weren’t more stringent and for longer?
Common sense wouldn’t see us already out of this.
Lockdowns should have been earlier, longer, and better policed. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:15 - Feb 5 with 509 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:53 - Feb 5 by m14_blue |
I think the point is that people not 100% following the rules in their free time accounts for a very small proportion of daily interactions in which the virus can be spread.
Schools, offices, workplaces, construction sites, call centres etc have all remained open and are likely far greater vectors than anything people do (or don’t do) on their daily exercise.
The government and their tame media have made a concerted effort to highlight all the instances of rule breaking but on the whole people have behaved incredibly well. |
Why are you bringing exercise into it? I didn't mention exercise. I didn't mention "free time" either. I'm talking about the whole package, wherever you go, whatever you do.
I've not been in workplaces to see how well people have stuck to the rules, so I can't really comment there. I can only go on what I've seen in the streets, the park and the local supermarkets. I experience people doing things which lack common sense in terms of the virus every day I'm out and about. It stands to reason if people took more care, were less belligerent, or less relaxed about the rules, we'd be in a better place.
The feck ups by the government are another topic altogether. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:16 - Feb 5 with 507 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:13 - Feb 5 by eireblue |
From the Vegan Society Web Page !!!!!
“Recently, we’ve received a few queries from people around the world asking if a vegan diet can offer protection against coronavirus (COVID-19).
The simple answer is no.”
Darn, well not sure I can help get this to 20 now. |
Was there a more complex answer?
Surely a diet which helps the planet and doesn't use animals for food is going to have an impact on things like this which may have started with an animal? Even if it's eventually revealed it started some other way there's been several other cases where the world has panicked because of something which began with animals.
Disclaimer: I am not a vegan. | |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:16 - Feb 5 with 503 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:54 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
I've interpreted what Dolly is saying as that if everybody abided by the rules whilst we were in lockdown then we'd be out of it sooner. And that if everyone was more conscientious when we are out of lockdown then cases wouldn't rise as quickly. |
Indeed. I thought I'd been clear but maybe I haven't! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:19 - Feb 5 with 498 views | NewcyBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:54 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
I've interpreted what Dolly is saying as that if everybody abided by the rules whilst we were in lockdown then we'd be out of it sooner. And that if everyone was more conscientious when we are out of lockdown then cases wouldn't rise as quickly. |
Yeah I was being unusually subtle.
I was trying to reframe what Dollers said about lockdowns working from “if everyone followed the rules and used common sense”
To
“The government should have implemented the lockdown sooner and for longer” | |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:19 - Feb 5 with 496 views | StokieBlue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:13 - Feb 5 by eireblue |
From the Vegan Society Web Page !!!!!
“Recently, we’ve received a few queries from people around the world asking if a vegan diet can offer protection against coronavirus (COVID-19).
The simple answer is no.”
Darn, well not sure I can help get this to 20 now. |
President John Magufuli of Tanzania doesn't agree with the Vegan Society.
“The coronavirus has no place in our country. We will effectively kill the virus by steam inhalation, and eating fruits and vegetables,”
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/tanzania-embarks-on-steam-therapy-to-fight-coron
SB [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 15:24]
| | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:19 - Feb 5 with 496 views | vapour_trail |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 14:54 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue |
I've interpreted what Dolly is saying as that if everybody abided by the rules whilst we were in lockdown then we'd be out of it sooner. And that if everyone was more conscientious when we are out of lockdown then cases wouldn't rise as quickly. |
I’d call that a generous interpretation given it’s not what he actually said. |  |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:21 - Feb 5 with 486 views | m14_blue |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:15 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Why are you bringing exercise into it? I didn't mention exercise. I didn't mention "free time" either. I'm talking about the whole package, wherever you go, whatever you do.
I've not been in workplaces to see how well people have stuck to the rules, so I can't really comment there. I can only go on what I've seen in the streets, the park and the local supermarkets. I experience people doing things which lack common sense in terms of the virus every day I'm out and about. It stands to reason if people took more care, were less belligerent, or less relaxed about the rules, we'd be in a better place.
The feck ups by the government are another topic altogether. |
Fair enough, we won’t agree.
I suspect the things you’ve seen in streets and parks are a tiny contributor to infections, supermarkets may be slightly different.
The government are desperate to push the blame on to rule breaking by individuals. there’s just enough truth there for the mud to stick but I just don’t accept that’s why we are in such a dire situation at all. | | | |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:21 - Feb 5 with 484 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:02 - Feb 5 by J2BLUE |
Not sure why BL is getting stick here. The way I understand it is he was coming towards someone on a path that wasn't 2m wide and they overreacted from some distance away. Are we really suggesting BL wouldn't have got as far over as he could have done when he got nearer to them?
He's not an idiot.
As for Paz vs Dolly, you're both right. I think Dolly is suggesting you make your best effort to remain 2m away from everyone at all times. I'm sure he understands that it's not always possible if other people are less considerate. He's not suggesting he's literally been 2m away from every other person outside his bubble since March, just that he's tried to be. As we should all have done. [Post edited 5 Feb 2021 15:04]
|
We didn't know the width of the path when BL first told the story, but the people gesturing for him to move over were presumably doing so because he was walking two abreast with his friend and had room to do so. Apologies if I got something wrong BL. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:22 - Feb 5 with 474 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:08 - Feb 5 by J2BLUE |
I agree with this. Most people seem to be following the rules.
The government could also have added some extra layers to their restrictions which would help but make no difference to businesses. I saw someone standing in a Subway about an hour ago. Little shop with just enough room for a service counter and a couple of metres for people to stand. Door closed. Why didn't the government say all shops remaining open must ventilate by keeping their front doors open? Would make minor difference in supermarkets but smaller shops would have some ventilation.
The government are producing posters and leaflets about ventilating but not taking the easy wins. |
I imagine it'd be a bit cold for the staff! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:23 - Feb 5 with 475 views | footers |
Time to open the virtual pub so we can discuss this more even-handedly? |  |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:26 - Feb 5 with 457 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:14 - Feb 5 by NewcyBlue |
So really it isn’t people’s fault that the rules weren’t more stringent and for longer?
Common sense wouldn’t see us already out of this.
Lockdowns should have been earlier, longer, and better policed. |
By better policed you mean getting people to obey the rules?!
I rest my case, m'lud!
As i said before, and I really shouldn't have to repeat this, I never said JUST common sense. I said common sense AS WELL AS the rules (i.e. the example earlier of wearing a mask in a busy high street, when by the letter of the law you wouldn't have to). | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:29 - Feb 5 with 450 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:19 - Feb 5 by NewcyBlue |
Yeah I was being unusually subtle.
I was trying to reframe what Dollers said about lockdowns working from “if everyone followed the rules and used common sense”
To
“The government should have implemented the lockdown sooner and for longer” |
Yeah, you were trying to twist what I was saying. Not sure why, you're normally friendly when you message me through twitter!
There was no reframing needed. I agree with both those positions! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:30 - Feb 5 with 445 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:19 - Feb 5 by vapour_trail |
I’d call that a generous interpretation given it’s not what he actually said. |
It's exactly what I said. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:35 - Feb 5 with 429 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:22 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I imagine it'd be a bit cold for the staff! |
I think i've found a stunning solution to this problem.
They could wear some sort of extra clothing to combat the cold.
Right, i'm off to float my new company. IPO values it at £87bn. Later suckers. | |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:36 - Feb 5 with 424 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:21 - Feb 5 by m14_blue |
Fair enough, we won’t agree.
I suspect the things you’ve seen in streets and parks are a tiny contributor to infections, supermarkets may be slightly different.
The government are desperate to push the blame on to rule breaking by individuals. there’s just enough truth there for the mud to stick but I just don’t accept that’s why we are in such a dire situation at all. |
I agree parks and streets are likely tiny contributors, but it all adds up.
Supermarkets I wouldn't say are slightly different. I'd say they're MASSIVELY different. They are the main places lots of people go in a confined space these days. Lots and lots of people have been working from home throughout this, so aren't spreading the virus there. But EVERYONE needs food and other essentials.
Again, I reiterate this isn't absolving the government of blame. They have got lots of things wrong. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:38 - Feb 5 with 416 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:35 - Feb 5 by J2BLUE |
I think i've found a stunning solution to this problem.
They could wear some sort of extra clothing to combat the cold.
Right, i'm off to float my new company. IPO values it at £87bn. Later suckers. |
I wouldn't want to work for your company if you make your staff work in their hats and coats! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:56 - Feb 5 with 383 views | J2BLUE |
| The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 15:38 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I wouldn't want to work for your company if you make your staff work in their hats and coats! |
In a pandemic...to decrease spread of the virus. Seems such an easy win to me. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
