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So it looks like the Tory backbenchers and the Chancellor are applying pressure to try and get the government to bring forward the dates for considering easing the lockdown in England.
This is against the advice of SAGE who Sunak has stated are acting too conservatively. You also have Hunt coming out and saying lockdown should be continued until cases are to 1000 per day and Starmer saying we shouldn't open up too early like other times.
Then you have Chope on Newsnight saying that the 8th March should be "lockdown freedom day" when the public get their "liberties" back and other evidences showing that only 20% of people are following isolation orders.
The issue here is that if there are 20,000 cases a day, even if the R is low (say 0.6) then when you open up that is still a high baseline number of cases which can start growing exponentially again and it won't take long to get to high numbers. Counter to that, if you wait until cases are 5,000 per day it will take longer to reach higher cases and it will also allow more time for vaccinations before those cases reach a high level.
Interesting Chope refused to say what an acceptable number of cases were to open up, he said that isn't the point and that people should be able to exercise their freedom and even referred to the public as "prisoners" so that might give an indication where a number of Tory backbenchers are at the moment.
You also have Damien Green on Newsnight saying that this has to be the last lockdown for both economic and mental health reasons and in order for that to be the case we need come out in a cautious and pragmatic way due to the new variants.
So it seems there are two very solid blocks of opinion but very little agreement between the blocks.
What are peoples thoughts?
SB
SB - (not Simon Batford)
0
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:41 - Feb 5 with 1309 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:36 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz
No need if you’re outside my man, hence why it’s not law.
So how does it work? If you're going to the shop do you carry your mask in your hand all the way there, then stand outside the shop, put it on, do your shopping, come out, immediately take your mask off, then walk home carrying a mask all the way?!
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:34 - Feb 5 by GlasgowBlue
Fair enough. That does sound rather premature, given you had plenty of time and distance to get into single file and keep your distance.
I don’t give people pelters until it has become patently obvious that they have no intention of giving me some safe distance when I pass.
You’re right. It is a good example of how fragile some people’s mental health has become over the past year. We also need to accept that we have no idea of people’s personal circumstances.
Actions that may appear bizarre to us ca n come from people who have spent a long period of this pandemic shielding. And are taking their first tentative steps back into the outside world.
They may have lost a loved one to COVID and seen the suffering it causes.
Or they may have just been vaccinated and are within the three week period it takes to kick in. Imagine being old and being in fear for a year then having some hope through vaccination. I’d be dead paranoid fir the first few weeks after doing all I can for a tear to about catching the damn thing.
Agree with all of that. Which is exactly why when he shouted that I was a moron I chose not to escalate it. And is exactly why when I posted it I was pointing out that his behaviour was an example of how anxiety was making some people act/react in ways that ordinarily would be considered completely unacceptable.
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:41 - Feb 5 by SpruceMoose
So how does it work? If you're going to the shop do you carry your mask in your hand all the way there, then stand outside the shop, put it on, do your shopping, come out, immediately take your mask off, then walk home carrying a mask all the way?!
Mask in pocket mate. Goes on when I go in and comes off when I come out. Like pretty much everyone.
The Paz Man
-1
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:45 - Feb 5 with 1295 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:36 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz
No need if you’re outside my man, hence why it’s not law.
Not surprisingly it's more complicated than this.
Risk of transmission outside is still related to proximity and stagnation of the air. For instance if you are queuing at a market stall or coffee shop there is a case for masks and it has been highlighted by university researchers and Whitty.
For instance, Borough Market (if you consider that outdoors) now has a mask requirement and France has a mask requirement in outdoor spaces. You'll also see frequent mask wearing outdoors in Asia as just a general rule to try and reduce transmission.
Passing on the pavement or moving past people isn't seen as high risk but it could be that meeting up and sitting on a bench without social distancing could be a risk.
You're right though, it's not law in this country so you don't have to wear it outside although you might want to if it's crowded for your protection and others.
SB
[Post edited 5 Feb 2021 11:46]
SB - (not Simon Batford)
4
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:46 - Feb 5 with 1290 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:43 - Feb 5 by bluelagos
Agree with all of that. Which is exactly why when he shouted that I was a moron I chose not to escalate it. And is exactly why when I posted it I was pointing out that his behaviour was an example of how anxiety was making some people act/react in ways that ordinarily would be considered completely unacceptable.
It does sound like he had something else going on to make him act that way. I'd never be able to leave the house if I didn't have to walk by other people on the pavement. I'd say 95% of people here are wearing a mask when walking about outside though. Not sure what the situation is in Blighty.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:45 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz
Mask in pocket mate. Goes on when I go in and comes off when I come out. Like pretty much everyone.
Same disposable one you've been using since last March?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:45 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz
Mask in pocket mate. Goes on when I go in and comes off when I come out. Like pretty much everyone.
Couple of months ago we were walking through Beckenham high street. My GF pointed out it was pretty busy and we should put our masks on, so we did. There's no law about it, it's just common sense and common courtesy to your fellow man and woman, and no real hardship to us.
Most people in the high street were doing the same actually. I suppose you think we're all weird.
Open everything up, and up go the cases and deaths again - have they learnt NOTHING from the past year?? Yes, vaccines are here now, but there is still a VERY long way to go until all adults (who want one) are vaccinated twice.
1
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:52 - Feb 5 with 1257 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:51 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile
Couple of months ago we were walking through Beckenham high street. My GF pointed out it was pretty busy and we should put our masks on, so we did. There's no law about it, it's just common sense and common courtesy to your fellow man and woman, and no real hardship to us.
Most people in the high street were doing the same actually. I suppose you think we're all weird.
"Couple of months ago we were walking through Beckenham high street"
You have my deepest sympathies.
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:45 - Feb 5 by StokieBlue
Not surprisingly it's more complicated than this.
Risk of transmission outside is still related to proximity and stagnation of the air. For instance if you are queuing at a market stall or coffee shop there is a case for masks and it has been highlighted by university researchers and Whitty.
For instance, Borough Market (if you consider that outdoors) now has a mask requirement and France has a mask requirement in outdoor spaces. You'll also see frequent mask wearing outdoors in Asia as just a general rule to try and reduce transmission.
Passing on the pavement or moving past people isn't seen as high risk but it could be that meeting up and sitting on a bench without social distancing could be a risk.
You're right though, it's not law in this country so you don't have to wear it outside although you might want to if it's crowded for your protection and others.
SB
[Post edited 5 Feb 2021 11:46]
It's not a law here either. There's very, very high compliance with mask wearing outdoors though. I think what happened last year with the mobile morgues and body bags in the street made people think "what's the point in risking it?".
Plus if I need to go to the grocery store, the pharmacy, and the post office I don't want to be taking off my mask three times just to put it back in again.
Recently discovered bonus point - mask wearing prevents chapped lips now it's cold and windy as fook!
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:51 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz
No
Serious question (as I'm interested in the thinking on this in Britain) why wouldn't you just wear a mask? Is it literally that you don't have to by law, or are there other elements to that decision?
I ask because there are lots of things we don't have to do by law but we do them anyway, and often it's considered poor form if you don't.
[Post edited 5 Feb 2021 11:57]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:55 - Feb 5 by SpruceMoose
Serious question (as I'm interested in the thinking on this in Britain) why wouldn't you just wear a mask? Is it literally that you don't have to by law, or are there other elements to that decision?
I ask because there are lots of things we don't have to do by law but we do them anyway, and often it's considered poor form if you don't.
[Post edited 5 Feb 2021 11:57]
Government-issued muzzle, innit. The people who fought and died for my right not to comply are now going to die because I can't be arsed to wear a mask.
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:52 - Feb 5 by footers
"Couple of months ago we were walking through Beckenham high street"
You have my deepest sympathies.
Beckenham's quite nice actually, from what we've seen of it. We bought dome proper Irish black pudding in a quaint little sausage shop and there's a lovely picturesque park at the end of the high street.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
0
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:59 - Feb 5 with 1228 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:55 - Feb 5 by SpruceMoose
Serious question (as I'm interested in the thinking on this in Britain) why wouldn't you just wear a mask? Is it literally that you don't have to by law, or are there other elements to that decision?
I ask because there are lots of things we don't have to do by law but we do them anyway, and often it's considered poor form if you don't.
[Post edited 5 Feb 2021 11:57]
I don’t like wearing them. I find them irritating. In low risk situations such as outside I just prefer not to. I’d wear them in shops and on trains even if it wasn’t mandatory.
The Paz Man
0
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 12:00 - Feb 5 with 1225 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:55 - Feb 5 by SpruceMoose
Serious question (as I'm interested in the thinking on this in Britain) why wouldn't you just wear a mask? Is it literally that you don't have to by law, or are there other elements to that decision?
I ask because there are lots of things we don't have to do by law but we do them anyway, and often it's considered poor form if you don't.
[Post edited 5 Feb 2021 11:57]
Can't believe this thread is still going, paz reminds me of this scene.
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:57 - Feb 5 by The_Flashing_Smile
Beckenham's quite nice actually, from what we've seen of it. We bought dome proper Irish black pudding in a quaint little sausage shop and there's a lovely picturesque park at the end of the high street.
I hope you were 2 meters away from everyone at all times
The Paz Man
-2
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 12:03 - Feb 5 with 1216 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:59 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz
I don’t like wearing them. I find them irritating. In low risk situations such as outside I just prefer not to. I’d wear them in shops and on trains even if it wasn’t mandatory.
I too found them irritating to begin with. Been wearing them for so long now I genuinely don't really notice it.
I suppose I wear them to try to help put the minds of the people who live around me in my community at ease. It's a very obvious way to say that I care about them, and that I'm taking care of my own business to try and keep us all safe.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 12:00 - Feb 5 by hype313
Can't believe this thread is still going, paz reminds me of this scene.
Ha. I think he's cut off his own limbs here to be fair. Not much value in keeping the hatchet swinging. I'm more interested in what his thinking is now.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 12:03 - Feb 5 by SpruceMoose
I too found them irritating to begin with. Been wearing them for so long now I genuinely don't really notice it.
I suppose I wear them to try to help put the minds of the people who live around me in my community at ease. It's a very obvious way to say that I care about them, and that I'm taking care of my own business to try and keep us all safe.
That’s very good of you. I don’t know about anyone else but I would say mask wearing outside is probably about 10% of the people I see when I’m out and about ...
The Paz Man
0
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 12:06 - Feb 5 with 1205 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:59 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz
I don’t like wearing them. I find them irritating. In low risk situations such as outside I just prefer not to. I’d wear them in shops and on trains even if it wasn’t mandatory.
Do you not find the deaths of thousands of people, the declining mental health of your friends etc, more irritating?
It's people like you who only do the bare minimum because it's either a bit annoying or you don't want to do what you're told, who are ironically prolonging the need for lockdowns. If everyone made an effort and used their common sense rather than doing the bare minimum by law, we'd probably be out of this by now.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
-1
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 12:08 - Feb 5 with 1198 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 12:03 - Feb 5 by SpruceMoose
I too found them irritating to begin with. Been wearing them for so long now I genuinely don't really notice it.
I suppose I wear them to try to help put the minds of the people who live around me in my community at ease. It's a very obvious way to say that I care about them, and that I'm taking care of my own business to try and keep us all safe.
Wearing a seatbelt in my car is irritating but I still do it!
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
1
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 12:11 - Feb 5 with 1194 views
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 12:05 - Feb 5 by 26_Paz
That’s very good of you. I don’t know about anyone else but I would say mask wearing outside is probably about 10% of the people I see when I’m out and about ...
I had that impression from my brother actually. I sent him some photos the other day and he was surprised that so many people were wearing masks when out and about. It goes the other way too. When I see photos of people out and about in Britain it often looks very strange and 'normal' to me.
No doubt if I hadn't moved away and was still in the UK I'd act more in line with how things are being done in the UK though.
Elsewhere in the states compliance is probably less than you see here. Like I said, when things got really nasty in the city last year the concept of "be a good neighbour, wear a mask" set like concrete.
Better do some work. I'll be back for page 15!
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The argument is heating up on easing restrictions on 11:46 - Feb 5 by SpruceMoose
Same disposable one you've been using since last March?
lol . one shop we visited the other week , had a sign on the door, please don't try on the masks what are on sale in the store. so i take it some people had been doing this. it makes you wonder the I.Q of some people
forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows
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