| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. 18:32 - May 14 with 10881 views | Trequartista |
I'm not a viroligist. I'm not an expert. I'm not a fortune-teller. I'm not privy to all the data. I'm just a punter trying to make sense of the data in the public domain.
So why on earth did we keep India off the red list for so long when people like me could see a mile off back in mid-April that this was a huge risk? This was not hindsight, this was plain sight.
Sounds like India needs to be put on the red list by StokieBlue 14 Apr 2021 11:43It sounds awful there at the moment with a new wave running totally out of control after the easing of restrictions:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/14/a-tsunami-of-cases-desperation-as-covid-second-wave-batters-india
This line is the one that is incredibly worrying though and I would think should mean India is on the red list until other countries can do some genome sequencing:
"Nightmare scenes of a country struggling to cope have begun to emerge as doctors speak of a new variant of the virus that appears to be spreading faster than ever before, affecting young people and even children this time around."
"This time we are seeing younger people between 20 and 40 getting seriously affected and even children are now being hospitalised with severe symptoms."
SB
Sounds like India needs to be put on the red list by Trequartista 16 Apr 2021 9:40The ‘double mutation’ Indian variant has today been detected in the uk. I am absolutely amazed India was not put on the red list. We knew it was bad there when they withheld the az vaccine for their own people. Appalling mistake by the government
Sounds like India needs to be put on the red list by StokieBlue 23 Apr 2021 12:44So India is now on the red list, 9 days after this thread and obviously far too late.
The most sequenced variant of C19 in the UK (after the UK variant) is now the Indian B1617 variant. It's not huge numbers at the moment but it's definitely here and most likely has been for a month or two (but closing up sooner would likely still have helped).
This table is quite interesting to show the difference between the variants - with regards to the Indian variant a lot of the answers are "don't know" at the moment:
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1383107879058608129
SB
Where are the questions from the journalists about this? All I saw was questions about the future that have already been answered with "depends and don't know". Where is the Labour Party holding the Government and its advisors to task? Yvette Cooper is the only person i've seen ask the question.
Look at this from disgraceful statement from Whitty ""What we know with all the variants is that things can come out of a blue sky - you're not expecting it and then something happens - that happened with the B.1.1.7 (the variant first identified in Kent), that has happened to India with this variant as well"
The only thing coming out the blue sky were the aeroplanes you kept letting land from India bringing the variants!
They is now a fair chance we are going to be asked to obey restrictions for longer than promised because of this, and no-one seems to care.
Livid.
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:20 - May 15 with 676 views | Herbivore |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:15 - May 15 by bluelagos |
So here's an analogy for you.
Twisty road - 60 mph limit. Unfortunately 60 mph proves to be too fast for some inexperienced drivers and there is are a series of crashes. People trying to drive at 60 when it is not safe to do so.
Now of course, in your analogy, driving at 60 (because you can) is dangerous / stupid / irresponsible - take your pick.
No argument from me.
But - should we continue to keep the limit at 60 if it's been shown to be dangerous? According to your argument we should all bear responsibility and alls good.
Except it's not all good - cos not everyone knows the road, it's dangers and someone will die, again. The answer is simple, put in a speed limit that we can all safely drive at and then no one dies.
{And not everyone is an expert in disease transmission - I know I am not)
You can slate those who crash and die all you want. I just think the responsibility lies with those whose job is to set the speed limit. And if the road is literally a death trap at 60, and people keep on dieing - I think blaming the drivers is the wrong course action. |
I think a better analogy would be driving on a 60mph road that is usually fine but on a day where it is icy. Legally you can still drive on it at 60mph but doing so would be foolish, and indeed you should probably ask yourself whether the journey is really necessary. You don't need to government to tell you to avoid danger in your daily life, and Covid has been around long enough now for most people to have a fair idea of the risks they are taking by doing certain things. |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:23 - May 15 with 647 views | SpruceMoose |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:15 - May 15 by bluelagos |
So here's an analogy for you.
Twisty road - 60 mph limit. Unfortunately 60 mph proves to be too fast for some inexperienced drivers and there is are a series of crashes. People trying to drive at 60 when it is not safe to do so.
Now of course, in your analogy, driving at 60 (because you can) is dangerous / stupid / irresponsible - take your pick.
No argument from me.
But - should we continue to keep the limit at 60 if it's been shown to be dangerous? According to your argument we should all bear responsibility and alls good.
Except it's not all good - cos not everyone knows the road, it's dangers and someone will die, again. The answer is simple, put in a speed limit that we can all safely drive at and then no one dies.
{And not everyone is an expert in disease transmission - I know I am not)
You can slate those who crash and die all you want. I just think the responsibility lies with those whose job is to set the speed limit. And if the road is literally a death trap at 60, and people keep on dieing - I think blaming the drivers is the wrong course action. |
Your example doesn't really work BL.
It relies on experiencing an unsafe road when you have no access to an understanding that it's dangerous. You say people didn't know the dangers of international travel during a pandemic. I wonder how, when plenty of other people did. I said it at the time, they knew they dangers, they just thought it was worth the risk. I think that's incredibly selfish. Others don't. I doubt we will ever get agreement on it.
In my experience people happily follow guidance that allows them to do what they want to do anyway, and resist the guidance that restricts what they want to do. [Post edited 15 May 2021 14:24]
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:25 - May 15 with 645 views | bluelagos |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:20 - May 15 by Herbivore |
I think a better analogy would be driving on a 60mph road that is usually fine but on a day where it is icy. Legally you can still drive on it at 60mph but doing so would be foolish, and indeed you should probably ask yourself whether the journey is really necessary. You don't need to government to tell you to avoid danger in your daily life, and Covid has been around long enough now for most people to have a fair idea of the risks they are taking by doing certain things. |
When the Orwell bridge is blowing a gale - we don't leave it to lorry drivers to make that decision do we.
For a reason, cos it's too dangerous.
And if we did - I wouldn't blame a lorry driver for driving over a legally open bridge even if it was blowing a gale. I'd blame whoever should have closed the bridge! |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:27 - May 15 with 643 views | HARRY10 |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 13:40 - May 15 by borge |
I was coming down somewhere between the views of BL and J2 last night, but as I think about it more this morning, I am siding more with J2.
Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. We seem to have lost all sense of individual responsibility. We all come on here saying how it's obvious that the Indian variant is going to cause untold issues, but then we're saying it's the government's responsibility to tell us what we can and can't do. If we can see the issue ourselves and if we all feel the government's incompetence will mean it won't take action, why is it that we don't have a responsibility to do something about it? |
I am not sure what is being issued by whom, to whom - but there does appear to be a lot of it. Perhaps that is the cause of the problem, too much issuing.
There is a limit to what individuals can do. If taking personal responsibility was the answer then there would be no crime, or violence - but that presumes everyone is given the correct information and has no reason not to act on it. That is very unlikely to ever be the case.
The government has the mechanism of the state, we don't. You are merely putting up a straw man argument. What action or sanctions can any of us take, or impose on those who do not, or are not able to exercise this responsibility ? |  | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:28 - May 15 with 633 views | SpruceMoose |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:25 - May 15 by bluelagos |
When the Orwell bridge is blowing a gale - we don't leave it to lorry drivers to make that decision do we.
For a reason, cos it's too dangerous.
And if we did - I wouldn't blame a lorry driver for driving over a legally open bridge even if it was blowing a gale. I'd blame whoever should have closed the bridge! |
If the highway authority said "100mph in a hurricane is fine" and lorry drivers drove 100mph in a hurricane do you know who I would blame? Everyone. Nobody has any sense in this situation. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:29 - May 15 with 638 views | borge |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:20 - May 15 by Herbivore |
I think a better analogy would be driving on a 60mph road that is usually fine but on a day where it is icy. Legally you can still drive on it at 60mph but doing so would be foolish, and indeed you should probably ask yourself whether the journey is really necessary. You don't need to government to tell you to avoid danger in your daily life, and Covid has been around long enough now for most people to have a fair idea of the risks they are taking by doing certain things. |
Yes, this is more appropriate.....but then I would say that because it backs my argument!
But BL, I think you are also suggesting that I am advocating for no action by the government. That's not the case; I absolutely think the government should take action now and not dither/make excuses. I'd feel massively more comfortable if they cancelled Monday's next step, closed the borders (as far as reasonably possible), enforced mandatory testing in areas with high rates of the Indian variant etc etc. But what I am saying is that we, as individuals should still take some responsibility. There should be a balance. | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:29 - May 15 with 637 views | bluelagos |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:23 - May 15 by SpruceMoose |
Your example doesn't really work BL.
It relies on experiencing an unsafe road when you have no access to an understanding that it's dangerous. You say people didn't know the dangers of international travel during a pandemic. I wonder how, when plenty of other people did. I said it at the time, they knew they dangers, they just thought it was worth the risk. I think that's incredibly selfish. Others don't. I doubt we will ever get agreement on it.
In my experience people happily follow guidance that allows them to do what they want to do anyway, and resist the guidance that restricts what they want to do. [Post edited 15 May 2021 14:24]
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The problem with your position, is that you expect everyone to be fully aware of all the risks involved and to make informed decisions. Plenty won't have access to the info and/or the ability to make those judgements.
So right now I haven't got a clue what the situation in Portugal is like, but I won't be slagging off those who choose to go there next week. And if they bring back a new variant - it will absolutely be the responsibility of those who have said it's safe to go.
They have been told it's safe and they are following that advice. | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:30 - May 15 with 627 views | SpruceMoose |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:27 - May 15 by HARRY10 |
I am not sure what is being issued by whom, to whom - but there does appear to be a lot of it. Perhaps that is the cause of the problem, too much issuing.
There is a limit to what individuals can do. If taking personal responsibility was the answer then there would be no crime, or violence - but that presumes everyone is given the correct information and has no reason not to act on it. That is very unlikely to ever be the case.
The government has the mechanism of the state, we don't. You are merely putting up a straw man argument. What action or sanctions can any of us take, or impose on those who do not, or are not able to exercise this responsibility ? |
The only action required is to not travel to Crete for a lads holiday during a pandemic that's killing off the most vulnerable in your community.
It's not complicated. | |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:32 - May 15 with 621 views | SpruceMoose |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:29 - May 15 by bluelagos |
The problem with your position, is that you expect everyone to be fully aware of all the risks involved and to make informed decisions. Plenty won't have access to the info and/or the ability to make those judgements.
So right now I haven't got a clue what the situation in Portugal is like, but I won't be slagging off those who choose to go there next week. And if they bring back a new variant - it will absolutely be the responsibility of those who have said it's safe to go.
They have been told it's safe and they are following that advice. |
Maybe they could take five minutes on Google to find out? You're treating people like idiots. If you can book a holiday you can find out about travel conditions before you do.
Everyone in your example has a responsibility, and will share the blame - not necessarily a 50/50 split, but people don't get to be absolved of all personal responsibility. [Post edited 15 May 2021 14:35]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:37 - May 15 with 621 views | J2BLUE |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 13:40 - May 15 by borge |
I was coming down somewhere between the views of BL and J2 last night, but as I think about it more this morning, I am siding more with J2.
Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. We seem to have lost all sense of individual responsibility. We all come on here saying how it's obvious that the Indian variant is going to cause untold issues, but then we're saying it's the government's responsibility to tell us what we can and can't do. If we can see the issue ourselves and if we all feel the government's incompetence will mean it won't take action, why is it that we don't have a responsibility to do something about it? |
I would happily double down on everything I posted yesterday. I think it's a ridiculous argument to just point to a government that are corrupt and incompetent as justification just because they happen to be agreeing with the stance you have.
Going abroad is voluntarily putting yourself and the country at risk. Again, look at the polls where people decide they are fine after a couple of days isolating and decide they don't need to bother anymore.
Sorry if anyone doesn't like it but deep down I think they know it's true. Especially those who have no love for this government and criticise them on everything suddenly accepting their word because it is what they want to hear. |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:38 - May 15 with 617 views | bluelagos |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:29 - May 15 by borge |
Yes, this is more appropriate.....but then I would say that because it backs my argument!
But BL, I think you are also suggesting that I am advocating for no action by the government. That's not the case; I absolutely think the government should take action now and not dither/make excuses. I'd feel massively more comfortable if they cancelled Monday's next step, closed the borders (as far as reasonably possible), enforced mandatory testing in areas with high rates of the Indian variant etc etc. But what I am saying is that we, as individuals should still take some responsibility. There should be a balance. |
Of course we all should take responsibility.
But I think there's a disconnect from some posters, who are aware of the way pandemics work and Jo average who often doesn't. It is the responsibility of those who make the rules to provide a safe framework within which we can all get on with our lives.
If there (as seems clear) has been a failure to control the Indian virus, I simply place that responsibility at those who designed that framework not those who followed it. Maybe you expect ageing Indian grandparents, some of whom may be barely literate, to fully comprehend the ins/outs of the dangers of new variants and how viruses spread, I am little more forgiving of Jo average. | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:38 - May 15 with 616 views | borge |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:27 - May 15 by HARRY10 |
I am not sure what is being issued by whom, to whom - but there does appear to be a lot of it. Perhaps that is the cause of the problem, too much issuing.
There is a limit to what individuals can do. If taking personal responsibility was the answer then there would be no crime, or violence - but that presumes everyone is given the correct information and has no reason not to act on it. That is very unlikely to ever be the case.
The government has the mechanism of the state, we don't. You are merely putting up a straw man argument. What action or sanctions can any of us take, or impose on those who do not, or are not able to exercise this responsibility ? |
And you are absolutely reinforcing what I am saying. Your argument is a lazy one......we can't do anything as individuals that affects the whole so we shouldn't bother. That's such an irresponsible line to take and sadly one that is very much reflective of the way most of us think these days.....and I generally include myself in that because truth be told, I probably don't have the self discipline to do the right thing either! | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:41 - May 15 with 613 views | J2BLUE |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:15 - May 15 by bluelagos |
So here's an analogy for you.
Twisty road - 60 mph limit. Unfortunately 60 mph proves to be too fast for some inexperienced drivers and there is are a series of crashes. People trying to drive at 60 when it is not safe to do so.
Now of course, in your analogy, driving at 60 (because you can) is dangerous / stupid / irresponsible - take your pick.
No argument from me.
But - should we continue to keep the limit at 60 if it's been shown to be dangerous? According to your argument we should all bear responsibility and alls good.
Except it's not all good - cos not everyone knows the road, it's dangers and someone will die, again. The answer is simple, put in a speed limit that we can all safely drive at and then no one dies.
{And not everyone is an expert in disease transmission - I know I am not)
You can slate those who crash and die all you want. I just think the responsibility lies with those whose job is to set the speed limit. And if the road is literally a death trap at 60, and people keep on dieing - I think blaming the drivers is the wrong course action. |
Funny you say this because there was a road on my way to my last job which was 60 and I hated it to begin with and I did genuinely drive at about 45-50 MPH because I knew it was safer until I knew the road better.
Now I could drive it much faster but the ultimate responsibility is with the driver. | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:43 - May 15 with 611 views | bluelagos |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:28 - May 15 by SpruceMoose |
If the highway authority said "100mph in a hurricane is fine" and lorry drivers drove 100mph in a hurricane do you know who I would blame? Everyone. Nobody has any sense in this situation. |
So here's the issue - is a govt saying "it is safe to go on holiday" the same as "100 mph in a hurricane is fine"?
Remember that many countries allowed tourism. They encouraged it last summer and will be doing so again this summer. We have companies bombarding us with adverts for holidays. Last week the BBC put bar owners from the Algarve on breakfast tv telling us how they hoped to welcome visitors from Monday.
So whilst it may (or may not) prove to be safe to go to Portugal - your position that it is "obviously unsafe" isn't one that is a fair comparison. | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:44 - May 15 with 608 views | borge |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:29 - May 15 by bluelagos |
The problem with your position, is that you expect everyone to be fully aware of all the risks involved and to make informed decisions. Plenty won't have access to the info and/or the ability to make those judgements.
So right now I haven't got a clue what the situation in Portugal is like, but I won't be slagging off those who choose to go there next week. And if they bring back a new variant - it will absolutely be the responsibility of those who have said it's safe to go.
They have been told it's safe and they are following that advice. |
Do what? It's not bloody hard to find the information. If you want to go on holiday you have a responsibility to yourself to understand the risks. You should also have a moral responsibility to others to understand the implications of your actions.
I am not disagreeing that it would be much better for the government to take action, but I still think that people should and do have a responsibility for their own actions. | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:52 - May 15 with 586 views | bluelagos |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:44 - May 15 by borge |
Do what? It's not bloody hard to find the information. If you want to go on holiday you have a responsibility to yourself to understand the risks. You should also have a moral responsibility to others to understand the implications of your actions.
I am not disagreeing that it would be much better for the government to take action, but I still think that people should and do have a responsibility for their own actions. |
Not quite clear what you aer saying. I am reading that as you think the responsibility for working out whether country x is safe to travel to (as a tourist) is the responsibility of the tourists rather than the govt? | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:56 - May 15 with 580 views | borge |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:38 - May 15 by bluelagos |
Of course we all should take responsibility.
But I think there's a disconnect from some posters, who are aware of the way pandemics work and Jo average who often doesn't. It is the responsibility of those who make the rules to provide a safe framework within which we can all get on with our lives.
If there (as seems clear) has been a failure to control the Indian virus, I simply place that responsibility at those who designed that framework not those who followed it. Maybe you expect ageing Indian grandparents, some of whom may be barely literate, to fully comprehend the ins/outs of the dangers of new variants and how viruses spread, I am little more forgiving of Jo average. |
Yes, I agree, it is the responsibility of those who make the rules to provide a safe framework. But, that framework might be based on many dimensions which may or may not lead to a framework that gives protection to all. In instances where it doesn't, we as individuals have a responsibility to ensure our own safety and from a moral perspective, to consider the safety of others. We're on a really, really slippery slope if we argue that everything should come down to the government and we shouldn't take any responsibility for ourselves.
And do I expect ageing Indian grandparents who are barely literate to take some responsibility? Yes! Why shouldn't they? I appreciate there may be very, very good reasons beyond their control as to why they have found themselves in those circumstances, but they aren't beyond the need to take a degree of responsibility. Clearly there will be elements of society who can't take responsibility for themselves, which is all the more reason why the vast majority should.....and I include barely literate Indian grandparents in the latter rather than the former. [Post edited 15 May 2021 14:57]
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:58 - May 15 with 576 views | bluelagos |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:32 - May 15 by SpruceMoose |
Maybe they could take five minutes on Google to find out? You're treating people like idiots. If you can book a holiday you can find out about travel conditions before you do.
Everyone in your example has a responsibility, and will share the blame - not necessarily a 50/50 split, but people don't get to be absolved of all personal responsibility. [Post edited 15 May 2021 14:35]
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So at one end we treat people like idiots (I.E. Tell them what to do ref holidays) and the other we treat people like epidemiology experts (I.e. Tell them to get informed)
Now of course 99% are somewhere in between. So the sensible approach I would argue is tell them what to do ref holidays. Cos if we don't, the idiots will go anyway (Even if it's clearly unsafe) and we all suffer.
I am actually (for once) taking the authoritarian position of the govt taking responsibility for all of us - and yeah, us trusting them to get it right. | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 15:00 - May 15 with 573 views | bluelagos |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:56 - May 15 by borge |
Yes, I agree, it is the responsibility of those who make the rules to provide a safe framework. But, that framework might be based on many dimensions which may or may not lead to a framework that gives protection to all. In instances where it doesn't, we as individuals have a responsibility to ensure our own safety and from a moral perspective, to consider the safety of others. We're on a really, really slippery slope if we argue that everything should come down to the government and we shouldn't take any responsibility for ourselves.
And do I expect ageing Indian grandparents who are barely literate to take some responsibility? Yes! Why shouldn't they? I appreciate there may be very, very good reasons beyond their control as to why they have found themselves in those circumstances, but they aren't beyond the need to take a degree of responsibility. Clearly there will be elements of society who can't take responsibility for themselves, which is all the more reason why the vast majority should.....and I include barely literate Indian grandparents in the latter rather than the former. [Post edited 15 May 2021 14:57]
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It's been a polite, and respectful exchange of opinions / views. (You, Spruce, J2, Borge and Herbs)
Think we have some common ground even if we are not all fully aligned. | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 15:04 - May 15 with 569 views | borge |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:52 - May 15 by bluelagos |
Not quite clear what you aer saying. I am reading that as you think the responsibility for working out whether country x is safe to travel to (as a tourist) is the responsibility of the tourists rather than the govt? |
I am saying what I have been saying all along. It is the responsibility of both. The government should be telling us whether something is 'safe' but that doesn't absolve us of all responsibility. If the government says it is safe, that doesn't mean to say that we can't or shouldn't make our own judgement. As well as suggesting individuals have zero responsibility to make sensible choices, you seem to be assuming everyone is stupid.... | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 15:10 - May 15 with 558 views | borge |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 15:00 - May 15 by bluelagos |
It's been a polite, and respectful exchange of opinions / views. (You, Spruce, J2, Borge and Herbs)
Think we have some common ground even if we are not all fully aligned. |
Agreed! I think we all feel the govt should be doing more to stop the Indian variant and that their response in that respect and in relation to all previous steps of lockdown has been cr@p! | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 18:02 - May 15 with 496 views | Ryorry |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:58 - May 15 by bluelagos |
So at one end we treat people like idiots (I.E. Tell them what to do ref holidays) and the other we treat people like epidemiology experts (I.e. Tell them to get informed)
Now of course 99% are somewhere in between. So the sensible approach I would argue is tell them what to do ref holidays. Cos if we don't, the idiots will go anyway (Even if it's clearly unsafe) and we all suffer.
I am actually (for once) taking the authoritarian position of the govt taking responsibility for all of us - and yeah, us trusting them to get it right. |
I'd say part of the problem here is that we live in a a society where many people have lost touch with their innate instincts, which we were clearly imbued with at birth for very good reasons.
Whilst I'll basically obey the law, ultimately I'll trust & follow my instincts way more than this clearly grossly incompetent, corrupt bunch of tos$ - oh, sorry, I mean "government" ...
In a pandemic, precautionary principle needs applying, both by govvernments *and* individuals. |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 18:44 - May 15 with 466 views | SitfcB |
🙄 |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 18:48 - May 15 with 456 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 18:44 - May 15 by SitfcB |
🙄 |
900 a day in the three week period between Pakistan being put Red and India.
And the worry is 28% of some flights into Hong Kong from Delhi were testing positive.
He’s royally f@cked up when advised to put India Red at the end of March |  | | |
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