| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. 18:32 - May 14 with 10883 views | Trequartista |
I'm not a viroligist. I'm not an expert. I'm not a fortune-teller. I'm not privy to all the data. I'm just a punter trying to make sense of the data in the public domain.
So why on earth did we keep India off the red list for so long when people like me could see a mile off back in mid-April that this was a huge risk? This was not hindsight, this was plain sight.
Sounds like India needs to be put on the red list by StokieBlue 14 Apr 2021 11:43It sounds awful there at the moment with a new wave running totally out of control after the easing of restrictions:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/14/a-tsunami-of-cases-desperation-as-covid-second-wave-batters-india
This line is the one that is incredibly worrying though and I would think should mean India is on the red list until other countries can do some genome sequencing:
"Nightmare scenes of a country struggling to cope have begun to emerge as doctors speak of a new variant of the virus that appears to be spreading faster than ever before, affecting young people and even children this time around."
"This time we are seeing younger people between 20 and 40 getting seriously affected and even children are now being hospitalised with severe symptoms."
SB
Sounds like India needs to be put on the red list by Trequartista 16 Apr 2021 9:40The ‘double mutation’ Indian variant has today been detected in the uk. I am absolutely amazed India was not put on the red list. We knew it was bad there when they withheld the az vaccine for their own people. Appalling mistake by the government
Sounds like India needs to be put on the red list by StokieBlue 23 Apr 2021 12:44So India is now on the red list, 9 days after this thread and obviously far too late.
The most sequenced variant of C19 in the UK (after the UK variant) is now the Indian B1617 variant. It's not huge numbers at the moment but it's definitely here and most likely has been for a month or two (but closing up sooner would likely still have helped).
This table is quite interesting to show the difference between the variants - with regards to the Indian variant a lot of the answers are "don't know" at the moment:
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1383107879058608129
SB
Where are the questions from the journalists about this? All I saw was questions about the future that have already been answered with "depends and don't know". Where is the Labour Party holding the Government and its advisors to task? Yvette Cooper is the only person i've seen ask the question.
Look at this from disgraceful statement from Whitty ""What we know with all the variants is that things can come out of a blue sky - you're not expecting it and then something happens - that happened with the B.1.1.7 (the variant first identified in Kent), that has happened to India with this variant as well"
The only thing coming out the blue sky were the aeroplanes you kept letting land from India bringing the variants!
They is now a fair chance we are going to be asked to obey restrictions for longer than promised because of this, and no-one seems to care.
Livid.
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:33 - May 14 with 1985 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 21:12 - May 14 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
YBR - I can unashamedly say that your summation is pretty much it. Myself and a few million others alike.
If Labour do not get our vote at the next general election, they will not win it. Ideology is one thing, reality of course is another.
There are many on here quick to judge, taking the moral high ground, knowing that their anonymity means we will never find out what they are really like as upstanding citizens. |
There are plenty on the left politically, including plenty who remain members of the Labour party, who voted for Brexit. What I struggle with is why those who abandoned principles they held for decades did so simply to exit the EU.
We should also consider, I believe, that within the confines of any political structure there is unlikely to be a political party of any persuasion that could produce a manifesto with which anyone agrees 100% (unless, of course, one truly subscribes to anarchy in which case the only "policies" are those which individuals make for themselves at any one particular time). So voting, as much as the "art" of government itself, is about compromise.
So as others have mentioned, perhaps it would further help understanding if you were able to detail the particular gains or improvements that you saw in Brexit that caused you to sacrifice your entire credo on that particular altar. As things stand you seem to be saying that exiting the EU "forced" you to vote Conservative and wave goodbye to your previous belief in solidarity, tolerance and respect.
This is an internet forum and I'm afraid in this instance, and particularly given the current pandemic restrictions, offers of face to face meetings simply will not do. |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:49 - May 14 with 1964 views | BlueBadger |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 19:19 - May 14 by You_Bloo_Right |
I'm not interested in your spat with Badger.
What I would like to understand, though, is how a self-proclaimed one time left-leaning person ends up voting for the Conservatives at any level. I get you don't like what you think the Labour party has become but what reasons could a person with such a history have to vote for the Tories? |
I'd just like to know what it is I've done to upset this particular chair-moistener. |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:51 - May 14 with 1954 views | HARRY10 |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:49 - May 14 by BlueBadger |
I'd just like to know what it is I've done to upset this particular chair-moistener. |
your failure to have your head firmly lodged halfway up Johnsons lower colon |  | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:52 - May 14 with 1953 views | BlueBadger |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 19:11 - May 14 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
It is not necessarily BB that you point it out consistently, it is your cowardly name calling and actual belief that you are the pillar of society that we should all look up to; in reality you and your like are turning thousands away from the party that loads of us have supported for years.: but then you would never listen to the millions of us that have stopped voting labour would you. Remember I have a very long list of your continual cowardly name calling of us that think different to you regarding the current political landscape.
You need to get out more and speak/listen/mix with real folk with real aspirations and ambitions instead of making out that we are all second rate citizens if we do not follow The Badger Way. |
So, what was it about the openly racist, corrupt and incompetent Boris Johnson that got you moist? [Post edited 14 May 2021 23:56]
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:55 - May 14 with 1942 views | jeera |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:49 - May 14 by BlueBadger |
I'd just like to know what it is I've done to upset this particular chair-moistener. |
You can't have done anything, because he's relatively new.
The reason I say he's relatively new is because he said so. It's not something I came up with.
But if you mention it he's then calls it a 'jibe'. I'm guessing he doesn't know what a jibe is because that doesn't make sense. An observation isn't a jibe.
"Today is Friday" - "Oh that jibe again".
He's also been sending PMs to posters making veiled threats.
I'm sure he said earlier he's been following Town for 65 years. I hope have that energy when I'm in my mid/late 70s. |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 00:42 - May 15 with 1886 views | HARRY10 |
What he actually said was
"I, for the best part of 65 years was a left of centre voter "
which would mean that at the youngest this poster would be 83 | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 00:46 - May 15 with 1877 views | jeera |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 00:42 - May 15 by HARRY10 |
What he actually said was
"I, for the best part of 65 years was a left of centre voter "
which would mean that at the youngest this poster would be 83 |
Ah ok, knew I'd seen something like that Harry. Thanks.
Feisty isn't he, for an old boy? | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 01:16 - May 15 with 1845 views | XYZ |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:33 - May 14 by You_Bloo_Right |
There are plenty on the left politically, including plenty who remain members of the Labour party, who voted for Brexit. What I struggle with is why those who abandoned principles they held for decades did so simply to exit the EU.
We should also consider, I believe, that within the confines of any political structure there is unlikely to be a political party of any persuasion that could produce a manifesto with which anyone agrees 100% (unless, of course, one truly subscribes to anarchy in which case the only "policies" are those which individuals make for themselves at any one particular time). So voting, as much as the "art" of government itself, is about compromise.
So as others have mentioned, perhaps it would further help understanding if you were able to detail the particular gains or improvements that you saw in Brexit that caused you to sacrifice your entire credo on that particular altar. As things stand you seem to be saying that exiting the EU "forced" you to vote Conservative and wave goodbye to your previous belief in solidarity, tolerance and respect.
This is an internet forum and I'm afraid in this instance, and particularly given the current pandemic restrictions, offers of face to face meetings simply will not do. |
Starmer-like levels of "come-hither" cross-examination here.
Meant, sincerely, as a high compliment. | | | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 01:22 - May 15 with 1839 views | Ryorry |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 22:00 - May 14 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
I never did get a question - just vitriol
As for the question just posted I voted for Brexit for reasons that I am willing to discuss with you anytime you care to meet, so we can discuss face to face.
Being retired I can meet anywhere say within 100 miles of an IP postcode -
Are you a pint or a glass of wine gentleman - my treat. |
100 miles? That's a generous distance to offer to travel. Would you go by train, car or taxi? 🤔 [Post edited 15 May 2021 1:36]
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 06:09 - May 15 with 1788 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 19:51 - May 14 by bluelagos |
I think they've royally fcked up. Too late to ld1. Too kate to ld2. And it looks like we may need another one.
My only real disagreement - is that if we are told it's safe to travel, then I think pointing the finger at people who travel is ridiculous (if it turns out it's not safe)
And I like you too J2! |
I totally agree with that BL and have done from when you first said that on here over a year ago.
If people are told they can travel, then it’s unfair to place blame on those that take that opportunity when they’re told it’s legal. |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 07:17 - May 15 with 1752 views | solomon |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:08 - May 14 by StokieBlue |
I've not read all the thread yet but...
This is one of those times when one doesn't want to be proven right. The trajectory was obvious to anyone and even more obvious to those with some modelling experience.
The issue now is that Bolton and the surrounding areas need to lock down as they are exponential but the local administrations are pushing back. Burnham has already rejected any form of lockdown from this variant so we will be back to playing politics whilst it spreads and probably kills.
Preliminary research I've read puts the Indian variant at 60% more transmissible than the already more transmissible Kent variant. That's going to push the baseline R up to maybe near 5 which is very high. The world is allowing covid to optimise itself and through the laws of natural selection it's obliging. We are giving it the opportunity and it will and is taking it.
It's past party politics or national politics now. People need to take it seriously but all around me I see people who think it's over.
SB |
And that’s just it, we’re not out of the woods yet but far too many people out there seem to think it’s all over. The progress made in the last 5 months by all of us is a hard won slog, if we now have to give up the 21st of June for a bit longer then we’re going to have to pull our sleeves up and get on with it regardless of how frustrating that may be. |  | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 07:51 - May 15 with 1725 views | StochesStotasBlewe |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:49 - May 14 by BlueBadger |
I'd just like to know what it is I've done to upset this particular chair-moistener. |
Have an uppie for "chair moistener".
I must try to incorperate that into a polite conversation sometime.  |  |
| We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub. |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 08:33 - May 15 with 1691 views | Chrisd |
Surely, it was a logical step? We always have appeared slow in our decision-making and have been throughout this pandemic. I appreciate NZ and Australia are in a different part of the world and are very remote, but the first sign of any concerns they react. We don’t until it’s too late, then we’re trying to put out a forest fire with a bucket of water. Our government seem to be trying to appease too many and that hasn’t really helped matters. | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 09:55 - May 15 with 1645 views | Ryorry |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 07:17 - May 15 by solomon |
And that’s just it, we’re not out of the woods yet but far too many people out there seem to think it’s all over. The progress made in the last 5 months by all of us is a hard won slog, if we now have to give up the 21st of June for a bit longer then we’re going to have to pull our sleeves up and get on with it regardless of how frustrating that may be. |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 09:59 - May 15 with 1639 views | solomon |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 09:55 - May 15 by Ryorry |
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In a nutshell . | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 11:30 - May 15 with 1611 views | HARRY10 |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 07:17 - May 15 by solomon |
And that’s just it, we’re not out of the woods yet but far too many people out there seem to think it’s all over. The progress made in the last 5 months by all of us is a hard won slog, if we now have to give up the 21st of June for a bit longer then we’re going to have to pull our sleeves up and get on with it regardless of how frustrating that may be. |
One concern is that folk don't seem to grasp that this is not necessarily about avoiding deaths.
It is about whether the resources can cope - and they came very close to breaking over this.
Put bluntly, dead people don't take up the resources infected people do. A patient on a ventilator needs constant attention - a corpse doesn't.
So the measures have that at as the main driver...................in other countries.
Here we have an incompetent cretin who last January skipped out of attending five Covid meetings, then went AWOL for 12 days in February and when he did finally surface, he chose to set up a photo op at a hospital (where he imagined he was Churchill walking among the ruins of the bombed out East end) by boasting about shaking hands with those infected.
Last Autumn was one of stop/start as this half wit was more concerned with his perceived image than implementing the measures needed.
And once again he is more concerned with how voters see him - as someone who is getting brexit done, rather than a PM who has to take hard decisions.
A spineless jelly of a man, who will cause the deaths of many more to come. | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 11:41 - May 15 with 1598 views | GaryCooper |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 11:30 - May 15 by HARRY10 |
One concern is that folk don't seem to grasp that this is not necessarily about avoiding deaths.
It is about whether the resources can cope - and they came very close to breaking over this.
Put bluntly, dead people don't take up the resources infected people do. A patient on a ventilator needs constant attention - a corpse doesn't.
So the measures have that at as the main driver...................in other countries.
Here we have an incompetent cretin who last January skipped out of attending five Covid meetings, then went AWOL for 12 days in February and when he did finally surface, he chose to set up a photo op at a hospital (where he imagined he was Churchill walking among the ruins of the bombed out East end) by boasting about shaking hands with those infected.
Last Autumn was one of stop/start as this half wit was more concerned with his perceived image than implementing the measures needed.
And once again he is more concerned with how voters see him - as someone who is getting brexit done, rather than a PM who has to take hard decisions.
A spineless jelly of a man, who will cause the deaths of many more to come. |
The incompetent cretins are those who have refused the vaccine. |  | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 11:49 - May 15 with 1575 views | HARRY10 |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 11:41 - May 15 by GaryCooper |
The incompetent cretins are those who have refused the vaccine. |
No, theirs is a decision made for all manner of weird ideas, almost all emanating from rightwing sources. However, what they chose to do has nothing to do with lack of competence.
Johnson has been given a position where competence is an expected requirement. He fails, on that on an almost daily basis. | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 12:29 - May 15 with 1534 views | Ryorry |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 11:30 - May 15 by HARRY10 |
One concern is that folk don't seem to grasp that this is not necessarily about avoiding deaths.
It is about whether the resources can cope - and they came very close to breaking over this.
Put bluntly, dead people don't take up the resources infected people do. A patient on a ventilator needs constant attention - a corpse doesn't.
So the measures have that at as the main driver...................in other countries.
Here we have an incompetent cretin who last January skipped out of attending five Covid meetings, then went AWOL for 12 days in February and when he did finally surface, he chose to set up a photo op at a hospital (where he imagined he was Churchill walking among the ruins of the bombed out East end) by boasting about shaking hands with those infected.
Last Autumn was one of stop/start as this half wit was more concerned with his perceived image than implementing the measures needed.
And once again he is more concerned with how voters see him - as someone who is getting brexit done, rather than a PM who has to take hard decisions.
A spineless jelly of a man, who will cause the deaths of many more to come. |
There's also the factor of the increasing number of people who develop "long covid". This doesn't just affect individuals & their families badly, but will require increasing money & resources fom an already underfunded NHS, as well as having a negative effect on the economy.
There's no logical thinking from this shambolic shower of sh1te 'government", let alone any long-term thinking. GB & NI will be paying in many ways long after they're history, & History will be doing multiple facepalms as it writes. | |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 12:37 - May 15 with 1527 views | HARRY10 |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 12:29 - May 15 by Ryorry |
There's also the factor of the increasing number of people who develop "long covid". This doesn't just affect individuals & their families badly, but will require increasing money & resources fom an already underfunded NHS, as well as having a negative effect on the economy.
There's no logical thinking from this shambolic shower of sh1te 'government", let alone any long-term thinking. GB & NI will be paying in many ways long after they're history, & History will be doing multiple facepalms as it writes. |
Much as we now look on 'weird' stuff from the Middle Ages, I expect it will be barely a generation before folk are looking at these times and wondering
'What the fck were they thinking' | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 13:40 - May 15 with 1479 views | borge |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 06:09 - May 15 by The_Romford_Blue |
I totally agree with that BL and have done from when you first said that on here over a year ago.
If people are told they can travel, then it’s unfair to place blame on those that take that opportunity when they’re told it’s legal. |
I was coming down somewhere between the views of BL and J2 last night, but as I think about it more this morning, I am siding more with J2.
Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. We seem to have lost all sense of individual responsibility. We all come on here saying how it's obvious that the Indian variant is going to cause untold issues, but then we're saying it's the government's responsibility to tell us what we can and can't do. If we can see the issue ourselves and if we all feel the government's incompetence will mean it won't take action, why is it that we don't have a responsibility to do something about it? | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 13:46 - May 15 with 1456 views | SpruceMoose |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 13:40 - May 15 by borge |
I was coming down somewhere between the views of BL and J2 last night, but as I think about it more this morning, I am siding more with J2.
Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. We seem to have lost all sense of individual responsibility. We all come on here saying how it's obvious that the Indian variant is going to cause untold issues, but then we're saying it's the government's responsibility to tell us what we can and can't do. If we can see the issue ourselves and if we all feel the government's incompetence will mean it won't take action, why is it that we don't have a responsibility to do something about it? |
Indeed. To me it's just a grander version of 'if your mate said jump off a cliff would you?'.
I suspect that people who think like I do, and those who think the opposite, will never agree to disagree though. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 13:54 - May 15 with 1444 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 23:33 - May 14 by You_Bloo_Right |
There are plenty on the left politically, including plenty who remain members of the Labour party, who voted for Brexit. What I struggle with is why those who abandoned principles they held for decades did so simply to exit the EU.
We should also consider, I believe, that within the confines of any political structure there is unlikely to be a political party of any persuasion that could produce a manifesto with which anyone agrees 100% (unless, of course, one truly subscribes to anarchy in which case the only "policies" are those which individuals make for themselves at any one particular time). So voting, as much as the "art" of government itself, is about compromise.
So as others have mentioned, perhaps it would further help understanding if you were able to detail the particular gains or improvements that you saw in Brexit that caused you to sacrifice your entire credo on that particular altar. As things stand you seem to be saying that exiting the EU "forced" you to vote Conservative and wave goodbye to your previous belief in solidarity, tolerance and respect.
This is an internet forum and I'm afraid in this instance, and particularly given the current pandemic restrictions, offers of face to face meetings simply will not do. |
Rob Ford (Manchester Uni) did a good piece looking at what’s been happening. He’s looked at the longer and shorter term changes in demographics of voting patterns. Phone’s about to die, but it’s worth looking for on his twitter account or google search. |  |
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| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 13:54 - May 15 with 1444 views | borge |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 13:46 - May 15 by SpruceMoose |
Indeed. To me it's just a grander version of 'if your mate said jump off a cliff would you?'.
I suspect that people who think like I do, and those who think the opposite, will never agree to disagree though. |
Exactly. I could drink 15 pints of Stella, paint myself blue and jump off the Orwell Bridge because " the government says I can".....it's perfectly legal, but maybe, just maybe I should listen to my own instincts here.... | | | |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 14:15 - May 15 with 1426 views | bluelagos |
| Indian Variant - Absolutely livid. on 13:54 - May 15 by borge |
Exactly. I could drink 15 pints of Stella, paint myself blue and jump off the Orwell Bridge because " the government says I can".....it's perfectly legal, but maybe, just maybe I should listen to my own instincts here.... |
So here's an analogy for you.
Twisty road - 60 mph limit. Unfortunately 60 mph proves to be too fast for some inexperienced drivers and there is are a series of crashes. People trying to drive at 60 when it is not safe to do so.
Now of course, in your analogy, driving at 60 (because you can) is dangerous / stupid / irresponsible - take your pick.
No argument from me.
But - should we continue to keep the limit at 60 if it's been shown to be dangerous? According to your argument we should all bear responsibility and alls good.
Except it's not all good - cos not everyone knows the road, it's dangers and someone will die, again. The answer is simple, put in a speed limit that we can all safely drive at and then no one dies.
{And not everyone is an expert in disease transmission - I know I am not)
You can slate those who crash and die all you want. I just think the responsibility lies with those whose job is to set the speed limit. And if the road is literally a death trap at 60, and people keep on dieing - I think blaming the drivers is the wrong course action. |  |
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