| England 21:37 - Jun 2 with 4964 views | cressi |
Euro favorites can someone explain why like to but just Don't see it myself. |  | | |  |
| England on 22:41 - Jun 2 with 1040 views | IpswichKnight |
| England on 22:33 - Jun 2 by davblue |
The front 3 or 4 are top class.
Pickford, he’s been ok but he’s no better than that. Godfrey has a higher ceiling than Coady or Mings and will be better than them. Still think we need a deep lying midfielder who can play on the half turn.
Not convinced Southgate is good enough either as well as he’s done so far. |
I’d agree with the midfield comment but we’ve added a lot of flair and creativity since 2018 where we were found wanting in the end. Pope and Henderson are better keepers than Pickford but neither are as good as footballers as Pickford and we want our keeper to be as comfortable as anyone else on the ball he can pick a pass the ball to Grealish was better than anything we’ve seen this season!
We do need to remember that we’re going to add in Foden, Mount and maybe Henderson into that team and the likes of Sancho and Stirling aren’t even guaranteed starts. | | | |
| England on 22:47 - Jun 2 with 1017 views | davblue |
| England on 22:39 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I agree about Harry Kane. However, less convinced that Rashford and Calvert-Lewin are top class. Grealish is very good but lacks the experience. I am not sure that is enough for a team to win a top tournament. If we could gel as a team like Denmark and Greece did when they won it, maybe. However, I have not seen signs that we are that much of a special unit as a team. |
I’m talking about the front men really as Kane plus the wide players. Not the understudy strikers. |  | | |
| England on 00:07 - Jun 3 with 981 views | stonojnr |
| England on 22:35 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
We are 4th in the world so should be 3rd favourites behind France and Belgium. This would also suggest that a fair run should see us knocked out in the semi-finals.
Not sure I entirely trust those rankings. They put too much weighting on a few games as that is the nature of international football (teams do not play all that often).
To be honest, I think making the semis will be a good tournament for England.
If you put another couple of "very"s in there, you might just convince yourself, though. |
yeah but have you seen the draw who the group winners/runners up face after the group stages ?
assuming results go as youd expect with no upsets, England will have to play Spain in one of the knockout games, plus a team picked from France/Germany/Portugal, before they get to the final which will likely be Belgium if you assume the odds are accurate, which they cant be given how likely it is 5 of the top odds are likely to play each other before the final is.
and I know its traditional to get over excited about Englands prospects, but Im thinking theyve got a very tough set of games to play to achieve just a goal of getting to the semi final.
and whilst I dont read much into friendlies like the one they just had, they could easily have just drawn a match to Austria | | | |
| England on 02:57 - Jun 3 with 940 views | Perublue |
| England on 21:40 - Jun 2 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Because English bookies take more money on England than any other team so the odds are shorter. I'd imagine France, Germany, Italy and Portugal are all shorter with their bookies |
In Peru (neutral country)... The joint faves to win the tourney are England and France with Belgium just behind.
The fave final is another joint one between an England Vs Belgium or France Vs Germany
Top scorer 1.Kane,2.Lukaku and 3rd Mbappe |  |
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| England on 06:35 - Jun 3 with 908 views | tractordownsouth |
| England on 21:50 - Jun 2 by MrTown |
I think that’s pretty spot on. I think going forward we have an ambulance of riches.
I think defensively we may struggle.
Pickford, Stones, Maguire, Mings, Coady. All good footballers but probably not the bedrock of any side who will win a major European Tournament.
I still struggle to see past France or Belgium to win it. Then you have the next set who it wouldn’t be a huge shock to see win, but wouldn’t be an outright clear favourite in my view; Germany, Holland, Italy, England, Spain, Portugal. [Post edited 2 Jun 2021 21:53]
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I fancy Portugal to do it again, beating France in a repeat of the final. After such a long season, it will come down to squad depth. |  |
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| England on 07:15 - Jun 3 with 886 views | m14_blue |
| England on 22:39 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I agree about Harry Kane. However, less convinced that Rashford and Calvert-Lewin are top class. Grealish is very good but lacks the experience. I am not sure that is enough for a team to win a top tournament. If we could gel as a team like Denmark and Greece did when they won it, maybe. However, I have not seen signs that we are that much of a special unit as a team. |
Grealish, Foden, Sancho, Mount, Sterling and Rashford.
We really do have an embarrassment of riches going forwards, the rest of the team and perhaps the manager - not so good. | | | |
| England on 07:17 - Jun 3 with 886 views | Bluefields |
| England on 21:59 - Jun 2 by Ftnfwest |
Did Malcolm MacDonald score again? |
He didn't in '78 | | | |
| England on 08:20 - Jun 3 with 845 views | itfcjoe |
Well we are 2nd/3rd favourties for a start.
And it's because we are very good, we may not get the luck needed to win a tournament, but we've got a good chance |  |
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| England on 08:23 - Jun 3 with 839 views | IpswichKnight |
| England on 07:15 - Jun 3 by m14_blue |
Grealish, Foden, Sancho, Mount, Sterling and Rashford.
We really do have an embarrassment of riches going forwards, the rest of the team and perhaps the manager - not so good. |
Rice is vastly underrated he’s not flashy but allows us to have the likes of Mount and Grealish higher up. We have an embarrassment of classy right backs, champions league winner, PL winner and La Liga winner.
Why should we be scared of these other teams we are a very very good side they should be scared of us we have the attacking capability to beat all of them. | | | |
| England on 08:34 - Jun 3 with 811 views | Herbivore |
We're a good side and this is essentially a home tournament for us, which tends to be a big advantage and that will still be the case even without full stadia. I don't think we'll win it but I don't see many great sides about, lots of good ones but no outstanding team. I think semis would be decent. I think we've got good players, especially in attacking areas and at full back, but our CBs and goalie are a bit ropey and we're a genuine quality CM short as well. |  |
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| England on 08:34 - Jun 3 with 811 views | pointofblue |
| England on 08:23 - Jun 3 by IpswichKnight |
Rice is vastly underrated he’s not flashy but allows us to have the likes of Mount and Grealish higher up. We have an embarrassment of classy right backs, champions league winner, PL winner and La Liga winner.
Why should we be scared of these other teams we are a very very good side they should be scared of us we have the attacking capability to beat all of them. |
And the defensively capability of handing it to them on a plate. This is a side that lost at home to Denmark and away in Prague after all. | |
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| England on 08:38 - Jun 3 with 798 views | hammo56 |
| England on 08:23 - Jun 3 by IpswichKnight |
Rice is vastly underrated he’s not flashy but allows us to have the likes of Mount and Grealish higher up. We have an embarrassment of classy right backs, champions league winner, PL winner and La Liga winner.
Why should we be scared of these other teams we are a very very good side they should be scared of us we have the attacking capability to beat all of them. |
Heard it all before. The first decent side we come up against and it will be the same old story.
Tbh I can see us even struggling to beat Scotland. | | | |
| England on 08:39 - Jun 3 with 792 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| England on 02:57 - Jun 3 by Perublue |
In Peru (neutral country)... The joint faves to win the tourney are England and France with Belgium just behind.
The fave final is another joint one between an England Vs Belgium or France Vs Germany
Top scorer 1.Kane,2.Lukaku and 3rd Mbappe |
Will given Peru aren't competing that just shows that bookies odds follow the money more than form which was my point. They have to because their money made based on risk.
I'd st ill bet that France, Portugal and Germany are shorter than England with their bookmakers. Possibly Italy and Spain too. |  |
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| England on 08:41 - Jun 3 with 781 views | crossyitfc |
| England on 22:06 - Jun 2 by davblue |
Goalkeepers aren't good enough and neither is a centre half to play alongside Maguire. Would have liked Godfrey in there as he's better than Mings or Coady. |
Er, John Stones? |  | | |
| England on 08:44 - Jun 3 with 773 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
1) we’re second favourites with most bookies, behind France
2) said bookie odds are influenced by betting, and will have been influenced by some patriotic betting on England
3) above not discounted, we are one of the best sides in the world and absolutely have a chance. Does that mean we’ll win it? Probably not, winning major tournaments is incredibly difficult and there are plenty of sides that can make similar claims. But if things gel, we get the rub of the green and one or more of our attacking talents come alive at the right time then maybe just maybe it could be our year
Of course, it can easily all go so very wrong too |  |
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| England on 08:46 - Jun 3 with 770 views | Herbivore |
| England on 08:39 - Jun 3 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Will given Peru aren't competing that just shows that bookies odds follow the money more than form which was my point. They have to because their money made based on risk.
I'd st ill bet that France, Portugal and Germany are shorter than England with their bookmakers. Possibly Italy and Spain too. |
But why would punters in Peru be betting heavily on England for any reason other than thinking they'll win it? Of course in major European countries their market will be skewed towards their own team, but a market in South America is more likely to represent who neutrals think look a good bet. | |
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| England on 08:47 - Jun 3 with 766 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| England on 08:39 - Jun 3 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Will given Peru aren't competing that just shows that bookies odds follow the money more than form which was my point. They have to because their money made based on risk.
I'd st ill bet that France, Portugal and Germany are shorter than England with their bookmakers. Possibly Italy and Spain too. |
It shows that in a country where there isn’t any patriotic bias England are still considered one of the favourites
Probably because we have a very good team | |
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| England on 08:51 - Jun 3 with 754 views | HighgateBlue |
| England on 21:40 - Jun 2 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Because English bookies take more money on England than any other team so the odds are shorter. I'd imagine France, Germany, Italy and Portugal are all shorter with their bookies |
You might imagine that, but I'm not sure you'd be right to. Betfair, for example, is Irish owned, and many bookies have a web of global subsidiaries to be tax efficient. Plus punters can place bets globally, and as has always been the case, bookies hedge their bets with each other in order to control their liabilities. So whilst in a mature betting market it's certainly right that the money creates the odds to a larger extent than the bookies' personal opinions as to prospects of each team/horse winning, in the global internet age the odds in different countries really do not vary very much.
I am reminded of the most famous betting coup of Barney Curley who died recently (and of course whose name reared its head on this forum of late) - the Yellow Sam coup. Part of his genius/devious plan was to get a stooge to use the only working telephone at the racecourse to make a personal call so that the on-track bookies couldn't hedge their liabilities with other bookies following all of his heavy on course bets. That hedging now takes place across borders, and plainly that affects the odds globally.
I still don't think England will win the Euros however! |  | | |
| England on 08:57 - Jun 3 with 738 views | HighgateBlue |
| England on 21:40 - Jun 2 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Because English bookies take more money on England than any other team so the odds are shorter. I'd imagine France, Germany, Italy and Portugal are all shorter with their bookies |
Just to put facts on the bones, a number of bookies on Oddschecker currently have England and France as joint favourites, some have France narrow favourites, and a couple (fewer) have England as narrow favourites. So the two are basically neck and neck but if you average all the odds out, France are possibly slightly shorter.
Bet Clic, a popular French betting site, has the two neck and neck at 6,00 (5/1), so they're actually marginally less favourable to France than the general consensus. But they're exactly the same as BetFred and SkyBet, so as you'd expect in this global age, odds don't vary a great deal from country to country on a highly popular global market:
https://www.betclic.fr/football-s1/uefa-euro-2020-c122 | | | |
| England on 09:15 - Jun 3 with 724 views | BlueRaider |
| England on 21:50 - Jun 2 by MrTown |
I think that’s pretty spot on. I think going forward we have an ambulance of riches.
I think defensively we may struggle.
Pickford, Stones, Maguire, Mings, Coady. All good footballers but probably not the bedrock of any side who will win a major European Tournament.
I still struggle to see past France or Belgium to win it. Then you have the next set who it wouldn’t be a huge shock to see win, but wouldn’t be an outright clear favourite in my view; Germany, Holland, Italy, England, Spain, Portugal. [Post edited 2 Jun 2021 21:53]
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Our biggest problem is the path through the tournament.
We can beat any of the other teams on our day, the problem is we're likely to have beat 4 in a row.
If we win the group we face the runners up of the France, Germany, Portugal group in the last 16. Then Spain in the q/f, Belgium in the s/f and then likely one of the others from that group in the final | |
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| England on 09:20 - Jun 3 with 711 views | hammo56 |
| England on 08:41 - Jun 3 by crossyitfc |
Er, John Stones? |
Thanks for reminding me of another reason why we won't win the tournament. | | | |
| England on 09:37 - Jun 3 with 691 views | jayessess |
| England on 08:57 - Jun 3 by HighgateBlue |
Just to put facts on the bones, a number of bookies on Oddschecker currently have England and France as joint favourites, some have France narrow favourites, and a couple (fewer) have England as narrow favourites. So the two are basically neck and neck but if you average all the odds out, France are possibly slightly shorter.
Bet Clic, a popular French betting site, has the two neck and neck at 6,00 (5/1), so they're actually marginally less favourable to France than the general consensus. But they're exactly the same as BetFred and SkyBet, so as you'd expect in this global age, odds don't vary a great deal from country to country on a highly popular global market:
https://www.betclic.fr/football-s1/uefa-euro-2020-c122 |
bwin.es (Spain) has us 2nd faves behind France too.
Like you say, gambling is a global business and people use these sites all over the world.
It's not that weird that England are 2nd favourites, tbh. The Premier League is the most watched league in the world and England has plenty of players at its best teams. That alone is going to attract a lot of gamblers' money.
A lot of chat about the quality of England's second XI, but that's pretty much irrelevant in tournament football. England used 12 players in starting roles in competitive games at the last world cup.
Look at the likely first XI:
Pickford
Trippier (La Liga Champion)
Stones (PL Champion)
Maguire (PL runner up)
Chilwell (Champions League winner)
Rice
Henderson (Captain of 2020 PL winners, 2019 Champions League winner)
Foden (PL winner)
Sterling (PL winner)
Mount (Champions League winner)
Kane (PL top scorer & PL top assister)
Is it that weird to consider these players the basis of a tournament winning side? [Post edited 3 Jun 2021 9:42]
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| England on 09:42 - Jun 3 with 674 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| England on 09:15 - Jun 3 by BlueRaider |
Our biggest problem is the path through the tournament.
We can beat any of the other teams on our day, the problem is we're likely to have beat 4 in a row.
If we win the group we face the runners up of the France, Germany, Portugal group in the last 16. Then Spain in the q/f, Belgium in the s/f and then likely one of the others from that group in the final |
Possibly, but that assumes the tournament pans out exactly as you’d expect, which is rarely the case | |
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| England on 09:43 - Jun 3 with 671 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| England on 08:57 - Jun 3 by HighgateBlue |
Just to put facts on the bones, a number of bookies on Oddschecker currently have England and France as joint favourites, some have France narrow favourites, and a couple (fewer) have England as narrow favourites. So the two are basically neck and neck but if you average all the odds out, France are possibly slightly shorter.
Bet Clic, a popular French betting site, has the two neck and neck at 6,00 (5/1), so they're actually marginally less favourable to France than the general consensus. But they're exactly the same as BetFred and SkyBet, so as you'd expect in this global age, odds don't vary a great deal from country to country on a highly popular global market:
https://www.betclic.fr/football-s1/uefa-euro-2020-c122 |
All bookmaker adjust their odds according to where the money goes.
As one witj only GSCE French from 20 plus years ago I havent gone scouting around French or German bookies but Sky and Bet free are UK based so is that not What you would expect, as you say Clic has us at join Faves which shows that France is taking more money on France than England is.
It maybe that Betfred, sky etc all have French sites too if so I'd imagine the odds differ there but less so as those bookies would be laying off based on over all money taken rather than territorially but the one forgeein focussed bookie you mentions has us at least as JF which I think illustrates my point that Its not based on form or likelihood, it's based on what money has been placed.
I'm the UK England will attract more money than any other team unless we look really crap hence shorter odds | |
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| England on 19:45 - Jun 3 with 606 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| England on 07:15 - Jun 3 by m14_blue |
Grealish, Foden, Sancho, Mount, Sterling and Rashford.
We really do have an embarrassment of riches going forwards, the rest of the team and perhaps the manager - not so good. |
As I have already stated, Kane, yes.
The rest are good enough to be England internationals and are promising players who lack a little experience mostly. I am not convinced any of them would walk into the top international sides, though, especially not playing together without more experienced top players around them.
England are a good side but I think world ranking 4th is a little generous and mainly based on over-performing in recent competitive matches under a manager that you seem to think is the problem. |  |
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