| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 14:04 - Jul 1 with 964 views | DanTheMan |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 13:59 - Jul 1 by JDB23 |
How talented is this kid really? I’m not saying he’s not, I’ve not seen him play, but at 18 he’s made one paltry appearance in the EFL cup. People citing Maddison etc, these players all had a decent amount of league appearances at that age.
Obviously we had a clown managing us so can’t really trust his judgement, but you have to feel if he was a real gem he would be in and around the first team more. Just speculating of course, he could turn out to be an exceptional player who we regret losing. |
As a counter point, Mings was about 20 before he even started playing semi-regularly for us and is now an England player. Plenty of examples of talented players who don't progress until later on.
And of course plenty of examples of players who the club / fans have thought were very talented and didn't make it. |  |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 14:13 - Jul 1 with 913 views | JDB23 |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 14:04 - Jul 1 by DanTheMan |
As a counter point, Mings was about 20 before he even started playing semi-regularly for us and is now an England player. Plenty of examples of talented players who don't progress until later on.
And of course plenty of examples of players who the club / fans have thought were very talented and didn't make it. |
True, although he was 19 when he joined us and made 18 appearances in his first full season after. Obviously there are exceptions but generally if you are a real talent, you are in and around 1st Team football at 18/19, especially at League 1 level. |  | | |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 14:14 - Jul 1 with 905 views | dirtyboy |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 13:20 - Jul 1 by Beckets |
Er Gibbs isn’t a left back. |
Apologies..
Not sure why I thought that.
If he's midfield, with the signings we have now, it's even less likely he'll get a look in isn't it? |  | | |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:10 - Jul 1 with 806 views | wkj |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 13:18 - Jul 1 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
Maybe in the 1950s - Things have changed a wee bit since then. |  |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:13 - Jul 1 with 792 views | ArnieM |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 11:07 - Jul 1 by tractorboy1978 |
Not like you to overreact without being sure of the actual circumstances. |
Same as most people who post on here I suggest. Who ever really knows the real facts ? Doesn’t stop people voicing their views though, does it. |  |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:19 - Jul 1 with 754 views | ArnieM |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 11:11 - Jul 1 by wkj |
"It's all about money" That is a lazy piece of conjecture. While it may, or may not be true. The stories are seemign like he wanted more exposure with the senior team? Sooo... showing ambition is the sin here? |
Nothing wrong with ambition, absolutely not. But my point is he ( or his agent), appear to have decided that if he’s not in the first team squad then he’s off. He’s hardly been in or around the squad yet, so not sure how he can justifiably demand it’s in his contract. He’s still a kid, and call me old fashioned, but I’d have expected him to knuckle down and prove he’s worth that shout , and earn it. Like I tried to say earlier, the6 all think they are owed something and want it on a plate these days.
Just my view you understand…. | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:21 - Jul 1 with 739 views | ArnieM |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 11:16 - Jul 1 by tractorboy1978 |
You have no idea what was offered. If I offered you £10k a year less than the market rate for your industry and offered less responsibility than you would like, would you just sign it? [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 11:18]
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Do you know that’s what he’s been offered then?? Or is that just your view and response? Seems some are allowed to voice their views whilst others are chastised for theirs . | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:22 - Jul 1 with 740 views | PhilTWTD |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 14:04 - Jul 1 by DanTheMan |
As a counter point, Mings was about 20 before he even started playing semi-regularly for us and is now an England player. Plenty of examples of talented players who don't progress until later on.
And of course plenty of examples of players who the club / fans have thought were very talented and didn't make it. |
Joe Royle always used to cite Marco van Basten as a player who never really made his mark until he was 21 or older.
Players are tending to establish themselves later these days as well, I think. |  | | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:23 - Jul 1 with 725 views | hype313 |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:22 - Jul 1 by PhilTWTD |
Joe Royle always used to cite Marco van Basten as a player who never really made his mark until he was 21 or older.
Players are tending to establish themselves later these days as well, I think. |
Jamie Vardy is a recent shout for this.
Ian Wright was another who was playing for Dulwich Hamlet at 24 |  |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:23 - Jul 1 with 722 views | ArnieM |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 11:15 - Jul 1 by wkj |
Because 👠He 👠Wants 👠More 👠First 👠Team 👠Exposure
What a day to be a young kid playing football and lampooned by a fan of his home team for wanting to push up a level with his home team. FFS [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 11:16]
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Well 👠heðŸ‘Needs 👠to 👠earn ðŸ‘that ðŸ‘exposure ðŸ‘then ðŸ‘doesn’t ðŸ‘heðŸ‘! | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:24 - Jul 1 with 720 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:21 - Jul 1 by ArnieM |
Do you know that’s what he’s been offered then?? Or is that just your view and response? Seems some are allowed to voice their views whilst others are chastised for theirs . |
No, but I'm not the one casting aspersions about his character. | | | |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:29 - Jul 1 with 695 views | jayessess |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 14:13 - Jul 1 by JDB23 |
True, although he was 19 when he joined us and made 18 appearances in his first full season after. Obviously there are exceptions but generally if you are a real talent, you are in and around 1st Team football at 18/19, especially at League 1 level. |
League debut at 17 years and 11 months would track with that, wouldn't it?
Ultimately, if we've quibbled over a few hundred pounds a week here, he wouldn't have to reach Maddison's levels for it to be a false economy. A Championship-standard attacking midfielder is going to cost you way more than >£50k you'll save over the length of the contract playing hard ball.
On the other hand, reading between the lines it sounds like the agent may have persuaded Gibbs he could get something impossible (guarantees about opportunities) and we've not been able to persuade him otherwise, in which case, not a lot to be done now. |  |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:31 - Jul 1 with 684 views | BloomBlue |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:22 - Jul 1 by PhilTWTD |
Joe Royle always used to cite Marco van Basten as a player who never really made his mark until he was 21 or older.
Players are tending to establish themselves later these days as well, I think. |
I always think Roger Osborne, how old was he when he played his first Town game 23? Who knows what would have happened in the FA Cup final without him, but it's crazy to assume that all players develop at the same age |  | | |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:32 - Jul 1 with 674 views | DanTheMan |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:22 - Jul 1 by PhilTWTD |
Joe Royle always used to cite Marco van Basten as a player who never really made his mark until he was 21 or older.
Players are tending to establish themselves later these days as well, I think. |
Jamie Vardy and to a lesser extent Rickie Lambert also.
While you're here Phil, do you know if it was wages of opportunities that was the blocker here? [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 15:34]
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:35 - Jul 1 with 653 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:29 - Jul 1 by jayessess |
League debut at 17 years and 11 months would track with that, wouldn't it?
Ultimately, if we've quibbled over a few hundred pounds a week here, he wouldn't have to reach Maddison's levels for it to be a false economy. A Championship-standard attacking midfielder is going to cost you way more than >£50k you'll save over the length of the contract playing hard ball.
On the other hand, reading between the lines it sounds like the agent may have persuaded Gibbs he could get something impossible (guarantees about opportunities) and we've not been able to persuade him otherwise, in which case, not a lot to be done now. |
Indeed. Reading between the lines, if it were JUST about money - and we rated him highly enough, which it seems many in the club do - then I see no reason why the deal wouldn't get done. There's obviously more to it. And if it is about being in the first team then we obviously can't guarantee that. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:36 - Jul 1 with 640 views | wkj |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:19 - Jul 1 by ArnieM |
Nothing wrong with ambition, absolutely not. But my point is he ( or his agent), appear to have decided that if he’s not in the first team squad then he’s off. He’s hardly been in or around the squad yet, so not sure how he can justifiably demand it’s in his contract. He’s still a kid, and call me old fashioned, but I’d have expected him to knuckle down and prove he’s worth that shout , and earn it. Like I tried to say earlier, the6 all think they are owed something and want it on a plate these days.
Just my view you understand…. |
There is nothing to say he hasn't knuckled down. He played very well for his level last year. Even if Gibbs moves up the leagues and doesn't get first-team experience, he will be at clubs with more stability and who can attract better loan offers.
As stated previously - Brian Klug's exact words on Gibbs was ' he is one of the most talented players he's ever worked with'. So why should we not expect the Club to offer a little more to secure a player that could potentially bankroll our push to the premier league in a season or two?
Keep in mind how many young players we've offloaded, and how poor the recovery care has been for injuries at the club. ITFC have been poor for managing the youth players pathway to first-team football for a while now, and that won't instantly improve under GC20 and Mark Ashton. You really can't blame Gibbs or his agent for having some very clear desires for the sake his development, when the club has been poor at developing players for years.
Point being, there really isn't anything to suggest that he wants more money, and is being greedy - there is much more to suggest that the club needs to get it's act together and creating much better pathways for youth players toward the senior game - something that many of the teams listed as courting Gibbs have been doing at a much better level than we have for a long time. | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:38 - Jul 1 with 629 views | chrismakin |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:22 - Jul 1 by PhilTWTD |
Joe Royle always used to cite Marco van Basten as a player who never really made his mark until he was 21 or older.
Players are tending to establish themselves later these days as well, I think. |
Probably why a club like Everton seem to have all their lads on 5 year deals until they are 22/23 years old Etc. |  |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:42 - Jul 1 with 609 views | jayessess |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:35 - Jul 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Indeed. Reading between the lines, if it were JUST about money - and we rated him highly enough, which it seems many in the club do - then I see no reason why the deal wouldn't get done. There's obviously more to it. And if it is about being in the first team then we obviously can't guarantee that. |
Not an especially hard pitch for an agent to make, I expect. "Look, Liam, if you want to stay here that's fine, but you'll be foregoing opportunities to earn more now, learn with better coaches in better facilities and you'd still have plenty of pathways to getting game time via the loan system. If you're giving all that up, Ipswich should give you some guarantees about your future, that's all I'm saying..." | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:44 - Jul 1 with 599 views | PhilTWTD |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:38 - Jul 1 by chrismakin |
Probably why a club like Everton seem to have all their lads on 5 year deals until they are 22/23 years old Etc. |
They had Garbutt on a deal until he was about 27 so sometimes they go too far the other way. | | | |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:48 - Jul 1 with 557 views | chrismakin |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:42 - Jul 1 by jayessess |
Not an especially hard pitch for an agent to make, I expect. "Look, Liam, if you want to stay here that's fine, but you'll be foregoing opportunities to earn more now, learn with better coaches in better facilities and you'd still have plenty of pathways to getting game time via the loan system. If you're giving all that up, Ipswich should give you some guarantees about your future, that's all I'm saying..." |
When you look at the size of Gibbs hes in that same problematic size range to push for a 1st team spot anytime soon. What ever his Agent is lining up itll be to maximise his own pockets not what is best Gibbs. He wont get any guaranteed first team promises from anyone above national league level at his age and size.
It falls inline with Phil's comment earlier about players coming into things older... Gibbs may make it in future years but he really does come across as a boy in a mans world when he comes up against 1st team level players.
Before anyone says that's being rude. It's not. Its just how football is imo. | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:51 - Jul 1 with 536 views | wkj |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:48 - Jul 1 by chrismakin |
When you look at the size of Gibbs hes in that same problematic size range to push for a 1st team spot anytime soon. What ever his Agent is lining up itll be to maximise his own pockets not what is best Gibbs. He wont get any guaranteed first team promises from anyone above national league level at his age and size.
It falls inline with Phil's comment earlier about players coming into things older... Gibbs may make it in future years but he really does come across as a boy in a mans world when he comes up against 1st team level players.
Before anyone says that's being rude. It's not. Its just how football is imo. |
You do realise that Gibbs' agency is SEG right? A very good agency for young players and development... | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:54 - Jul 1 with 514 views | chrismakin |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:51 - Jul 1 by wkj |
You do realise that Gibbs' agency is SEG right? A very good agency for young players and development... |
There are many great agents and agencies out there yes. | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:55 - Jul 1 with 505 views | wkj |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:54 - Jul 1 by chrismakin |
There are many great agents and agencies out there yes. |
SO other than conjecture, why are you choosing to take the stance that the agency is only there to line their own pockets and not what's best for Gibbs?
The two play hand in hand [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 15:56]
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 16:00 - Jul 1 with 478 views | chrismakin |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 15:55 - Jul 1 by wkj |
SO other than conjecture, why are you choosing to take the stance that the agency is only there to line their own pockets and not what's best for Gibbs?
The two play hand in hand [Post edited 1 Jul 2021 15:56]
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Because that is exactly what Agents look for. Otherwise you may aswell leave the players parents involved in their management. Always been the way and will always be the way. | |
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| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 16:02 - Jul 1 with 462 views | wkj |
| Gibbs gone - sad to hear on 16:00 - Jul 1 by chrismakin |
Because that is exactly what Agents look for. Otherwise you may aswell leave the players parents involved in their management. Always been the way and will always be the way. |
So conjecture it is then.
It is foolish to think that an agency has no interest in helping young players find their potential when doing so would be much more lucrative for them in the long run. | |
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